Epic fail, or why you don't grab a handful of front brake on a loose surface

[TheGoose]

http://squarespot.smugmug.com/gallery/6082375_TbJyZ#381679661_m6dhH

 

[Mac]

 


That looks painfull.

[FZ1 Matt]

Holy Crap!

Every time I flipped to a new picture I would shout "Epic Fail". Try it, it's quite funny.

Even if it was me in the pics I would still think it would be funny  

[DogBoy]

10,9,8,7...

(Countdown to first BMW owner posting that the rider would not have crashed if a) the HP2 had ABS and b) telelever.)

[TheGoose]

[Stray Cat]

Was it caused by braking, or because his weight was on the front wheel when he landed?  

[TheGoose]

Both. He landed on the front wheel and it looks to me like he either had the front brake on when it touched down or very shortly thereafter. Regardless, that bike is a wrap.

[Mookie]

His boots fell off  

[DredheadV2.0]

It's great fun toggling back and forth seeing the bits of plastic wafting to and fro through the air.

[miles]

This one's my favorite:



To echo Dred, notice the boot.

[TheGoose]

And glove, I believe.

Scroll back a few images and it looks like to me the reason his boot came off is because the back of the bike or luggage rack may have landed on his ankle. He kept moving but the bike was still working on an endo, keeping the boot pinned in place. HP2s weigh well over 400 lbs. Ouch.

[miles]

10,9,8,7...

(Countdown to first BMW owner posting that the rider would not have crashed if a) the HP2 had ABS and b) telelever.)

I'm not sure telelever would have helped, but ABS might have saved his unfortunate ass.  Then again, he would have had it switched off for better dirt performance anyway (even if the bike were so equipped).

In all honesty, what would have saved him is better skill.

[TheGoose]

In all honesty, the only thing that would have saved him is better skill.

FTFY

[miles]

FTFY

Hey!  Are you coming over into my airspace?  'Cause you know, I can see you from here...

[kevin_stevens]

I'm not sure telelever would have helped, but ABS might have saved his unfortunate ass.  Then again, he would have had it switched off for better dirt performance anyway (even if the bike were so equipped).

In all honesty, what would have saved him is better skill.

What is this "skill" thing you speak of?  

KeS

[TheGoose]

Hey!  Are you coming over into my airspace?  'Cause you know, I can see you from here...

 

[DredheadV2.0]

 

OK - I need help - why is Alex Putin looking over the horizon?

[Mookie]

He's rearing his head over Alaska  

[miles]

Here's the full version.  It's political, but funny as hell.

[thatguy]

That's not a front brake issue.Airborne off the gas landing is more like it.Get airborne,even a little and let off the gas the ass end of the bike will smack you over the bars just as illustrated.Unfortunate given the cost of his ride.I've done it on far cheaper rides with similar results.

[DredheadV2.0]

Here's the full version.  It's political, but funny as hell.

Okay, that there's funny no matter who you are.

[miles]

That's not a front brake issue.Airborne off the gas landing is more like it.Get airborne,even a little and let off the gas the ass end of the bike will smack you over the bars just as illustrated.Unfortunate given the cost of his ride.I've done it on far cheaper rides with similar results.

Yeah, but look at the puff of dirt behind the front wheel.  He was off the gas, and hit nose-down, sure.  Worse though was the fact he was on the brakes.  My read on the situation was that he realized he was going to launch and tried to not do so by getting off the gas and hitting the brake just as he hit the lip of the roller.  He tried to keep it on the ground but had too much speed.  In the air the bike naturally pitched forward and the front locked up, causing him to auger hard.

[Mr Sunshine]

He hit loose dirt and was thrown.

And so you guys know the rider isn't ok.  Broken ribs and a broken femur.  A broken femur can land you in ICU.

[TheGoose]

Bummer, hadn't heard that yet.

As for the reason of the crash, whatever it might be, staying off the front brake continues to be the hardest habit to change in my transition to dirt riding. Having been a pure pavement rider since I started when I want to slow down my first instinct is to hit the front brakes. At the Shelton rally in June or July I almost bit it three or four time because of that. By the end of the day I all but cured my self of it but it came right back. I'm heading out with my brother on Saturday to hoon around, hopefully I get my brain wired correctly before I biff it.

[Mookie]

Did Will find some dirt wheels or are you two just hooning in the dirt as is?

[Windblown]

OUch!

He must have been rolling pretty good based on how far he and the bike traveled after the spill.  Not sure what all contributed to the event but that's a lot of dirt getting torn off the road when the front landed and it does look like his hand had the front brake covered.  I reckon it's possible that if he was covering the brake in the air that when the nose started to drop he instinctively tightened up and locked the front without meaning to.  

Regardless, it brought back unpleasant memories of wiping out by going over the top on gravel. But mine haven't ever been that violent.  

[TheGoose]

We're hooning as is. Widge is going to put Mad Max in the back of his van. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to just ride to where we're going or throw mine in the van too. I have knobbies. From what I understand of where we're going he'll probably be fine with the tires he has on right now, it's just a gravel road type situation.

[fotomoto]

Do you think it would take 8 guys to load a crf450?     Hmmm, let's take a 1920's era powerplant, call it a dirt bike, and charge bazillions for it.

[R.Markus]

OUch!

He must have been rolling pretty good based on how far he and the bike traveled after the spill.

He better have been moving...he was in the middle of a race.

[Mr Sunshine]

Bummer, hadn't heard that yet.

As for the reason of the crash, whatever it might be, staying off the front brake continues to be the hardest habit to change in my transition to dirt riding. Having been a pure pavement rider since I started when I want to slow down my first instinct is to hit the front brakes. At the Shelton rally in June or July I almost bit it three or four time because of that. By the end of the day I all but cured my self of it but it came right back. I'm heading out with my brother on Saturday to hoon around, hopefully I get my brain wired correctly before I biff it.

Using the front brake in the dirt is totally ok.  I was ridiing with a pretty fast trail rider who does some fun racing and he never uses his rear.  The issue is you need to have the feel to know when the front is locking up so you can get off the front.

On the trail I use both, but I use the rear when I reallllllly need to haul it down.

[Mr Sunshine]

We're hooning as is. Widge is going to put Mad Max in the back of his van. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to just ride to where we're going or throw mine in the van too. I have knobbies. From what I understand of where we're going he'll probably be fine with the tires he has on right now, it's just a gravel road type situation.

save the knobies and put it in the back of the van.  will not going to race this weekend?

[Scratch33]

OK - I need help - why is Alex Putin looking over the horizon?

Oh, is that Putin?   Thanks for the clarification -- *I* thought it was Ron Howard.

[R.Markus]

That crash is at the end of this video.


Black River Stages Rallymoto 2008

[miles]

It looks as if he was heavy on the brakes before he even crested the roller.  

[bubba zanetti]

Here's the full version.  It's political, but funny as hell.

   ... err .....  

[R.Markus]

It looks as if he was heavy on the brakes before he even crested the roller.  

Rallymoto is an awesome race event. It's one of the last "grass roots" racing that anyone can participate in, and the only one you can slap a number on your big trailie and go race. I went in February and made a lot of mistakes, but have spent the entire year learning and trying to correct them. One of the main mistakes I was making was too much front brake, it's a hard habit to break when coming from street riding. You have to ride off pavement enough to get the right techniques to become natural, because you revert to your instincts in a panic situation.

A guy at that race wadded up his HP2 also.

[Mr Sunshine]

It looks as if he was heavy on the brakes before he even crested the roller.  

You must be watching a different video than me cause I don't see him on any brakes.  I hear him roll off but other bikes did it.  I just think he was leaning too far forward for the front heavy bike.

[miles]

He already has the back of the bike in the air by the time he crests the roller.  His strategy would have paid off only if he hadn't even attempted that strategy at all.

[Mr Sunshine]

I took some screen shots.  In the first one notice that his front wheel is compressed but there is not pitching forward of the bike?  There is a bump there which in the next shot causes his rear wheel to kick up.

His problem was he didn't stay on the gas but I don't think he had brakes on.

[miles]

I'm not seeing the screen shots.

[Mr Sunshine]

What you don't like the red x?  

Fixed the link.

[TheGoose]

Using the front brake in the dirt is totally ok.  I was ridiing with a pretty fast trail rider who does some fun racing and he never uses his rear.  The issue is you need to have the feel to know when the front is locking up so you can get off the front.

On the trail I use both, but I use the rear when I reallllllly need to haul it down.

I'd forgotten how much of an expert on everything you were.   I think I'll concentrate on NOT using the front brake and learn to use the rear first, thanks much.

[photomd]

It looks to me like he shut the throttle cresting the hill. This would transition the weight to the front wheel and it *can* throw you over the front. That looks like it hurt.  

[Mr Sunshine]

I'd forgotten how much of an expert on everything you were.   I think I'll concentrate on NOT using the front brake and learn to use the rear first, thanks much.

Not this again.

Use what you like.  But you will only have so much control.

[1KPerDay]

Not this again.

Use what you like.  But you will only have so much control. Whereas I... I will have full control!! of EVERYTHING!!!!! BWAAA HAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

fixx0rd  

[DogBoy]

Hey kids! Time for an ST.N Pop Quiz®:

Which is the bigger wreck?

     a) the subject of the thread or,

     b) the thread itself.

[1KPerDay]

iv) Andy Dick

[TheGoose]

iv) Andy Dick

Ooo.... that's hard to beat (with anything other than a bat).

[Mrs. DantesDame]

You guys are killing me!!!  

[thatguy]

I stand by my earlier statement.Sorry to hear and see he was hurt.An HP2 has got to be a handful off road.Nice bike but I'd rather ride a thumper or even a big bore smoker (I love two strokes) in that situation.The HP2 would be cool for Baja though.

[miles]

A local rider I know.

http://share.vio-pov.com/videoManager/play.php?file=MjA3My8yNzc5LmZsdl4yOTUzXm1pa2VzbW9vcmUxQGNveC5uZXQ=

[mugwump58]

Was this at the Black River Rally by any chance?

[ToadRide]

Anyone know (or even care) wheather the guy lived or died?

[thatguy]

Anyone know (or even care) wheather the guy lived or died?

Read the thread grasshopper.

[kevin_stevens]

Anyone know (or even care) wheather (sic) the guy lived or died?

Stop harshing my mellow.

KeS

[R.Markus]

Was this at the Black River Rally by any chance?

Yes, it was at BRS on Saturday.

[sagerat]

Wow.  Always sorry to see a rider go down; enjoyed seeing the clips of the other riders.

Stuntahs, I enjoy watching them remove themselves from the gene pool; guys doing a dualsport rally, I have waaaaay more empathy and concern.  Hope he heals well and quickly.

And as I'm only in my second season of riding dirt, I cannot throw out any authoritative opinions of what he did wrong adn how my amazing skills would have prevented me from doing the same.  

[hig4s]

I took some screen shots.  In the first one notice that his front wheel is compressed but there is not pitching forward of the bike?  There is a bump there which in the next shot causes his rear wheel to kick up.

His problem was he didn't stay on the gas but I don't think he had brakes on.

From those pictures, and my knowledge of dirt riding and racing. I raced motocross, harescrambles and enduro, ATV and bikes. He had the front brake on (probably both brakes actually) before the bike left the ground and didn't release it in time.. I've come down way more front heavy than that and not been kicked over the bars.  Especially seeing as most of the weight of the bike is very low on a Beemer, they don't naturally want to do endos.

As far as using front brake on dirt, NEVER in soft sand, NEVER while in the air, and with much trepidation on down hills.