An enlightening conversation with a Harley owner

[Galo]

Okay, he works here, so.....at least he had to be somewhat civil to me (joke) but today I had a great time chatting with him, and what I got was new-found respect....

I chatted with him as we crossed paths in a hallway at work...I knew his face because he wears a beanie helmet. Okay, that's stereotypical.

The surprise came when we talked bikes and he told me his bike (a spotless, beautifully-maintained 2000 Softtail) has -gasp- 137,000 miles on it.  In fact, he told me he had just come back from a 12k trip to the East Coast.

Okay, I eat crow about Harleys being garage queens....

I still dont care for his beanie, but he did say he needed a full-face now that the rains are coming, which kinda made it all good for me....
 

[chornbe]

There ya go!  

[atadaskew]

You sure he didn't say 137,000 millimeters?

[2WheelTiger]

Question:
How the hell do you do a 12,000 mile tour to the east coast?

Seattle to Boston to Jacksonville, FL to San Diego to Seattle is under 8k.

[Black Ice]

Galo, he's not a Harley owner.

He's a Harley rider.  

[atadaskew]

Question:
How the hell do you do a 12,000 mile tour to the east coast?

Jeez, do I have to explain everything to you guys?  He did not say 12,000 mile.  He said 12K.  As in $12K trip.  Which coulda been spent on a bunch of chrome baubles and strippers.

[Baz]

One of my old clients puts on 36,000 KM annually on his Harley's. (That's 22,000 miles for you non metric folks) Here is the catch, where he lives, the riding season goes from late April to october at best. (He lives in Peace River, Alberta). The man is 63 years old and has some pretty harsh medical problems, and works full time. I am sure he would double that if time, his pocket book and health would allow.

In my 30+ years of riding, the best I have ever done is 15,000 km and my riding season is at least a month longer than his. The family and job thingy has held me back however. (I just abandoned the job thingy. )

[chornbe]

Question:
How the hell do you do a 12,000 mile tour to the east coast?

Seattle to Boston to Jacksonville, FL to San Diego to Seattle is under 8k.

Not that hard. THere's some pretty awesome mountain twisties at both ends of the coast, just a couple hundred miles inland. Remember, pretty much West to Kentucky is still "the East coast".  

[st ryder]

Question:
How the hell do you do a 12,000 mile tour to the east coast?

Seattle to Boston to Jacksonville, FL to San Diego to Seattle is under 8k.

I just did over 8K going from southern Ontario, to California, (Malibu) and back home by way of BC, (Vancouver) and then Minneapolis.  Many, many twisties and a little doubling back out west, but pretty much there and back on the interstates.    

[st ryder]

Okay, he works here, so.....at least he had to be somewhat civil to me (joke) but today I had a great time chatting with him, and what I got was new-found respect....

I chatted with him as we crossed paths in a hallway at work...I knew his face because he wears a beanie helmet. Okay, that's stereotypical.

The surprise came when we talked bikes and he told me his bike (a spotless, beautifully-maintained 2000 Softtail) has -gasp- 137,000 miles on it.  In fact, he told me he had just come back from a 12k trip to the East Coast.

Okay, I eat crow about Harleys being garage queens....

I still dont care for his beanie, but he did say he needed a full-face now that the rains are coming, which kinda made it all good for me....
 

I did a 8+K tour last month, and from my informal observations about who was riding what on tour, I judged being "on tour" as having a bike capable of touring, ie side/top cases, and or some type of extra "luggage" tied down, and without doubt, the most common bikes on tour were cruisers, and the most common crusiers were Harleys, followed by non-descript metric cruisers. Of the actual "touring bikes", ie side cases and or top case, the most common were Harleys as well; then came BMWs which were tied between touring models and GS models, then Goldwings, then a plethora of mixed mid-size ST's ie FJRs, ST1300s, etc. and lastly "anything goes" bikes. But there was no doubt in my mind that on my last tour, like pretty much all my previous tours, HDs were the most numerous bikes on tour. But, I have another observation to throw into the mix: I encountered many more "groups" of riders on HD than any other brand; then Goldwings. Riders like myself on smallish touring bikes, seem to be "loners" and rarely if ever seen in groups on tour. I think this speaks to the whole "culture/tribe" thing, and it *seems* to me HD riders are the most social riders, "1%ers" or "wannabes" notwithstanding, as they are the fringe upon which HD resenters focus, and erroneously conclude the rest of the family is the same. Even Wllie G. recognises the "black sheep" are not what HD is about.  

[rauchman]

I can believe it.  The people I know w/ the most miles on their bikes are HD owners.

[veefer800canuck]

One of my old clients puts on 36,000 KM annually on his Harley's. (That's 22,000 miles for you non metric folks) Here is the catch, where he lives, the riding season goes from late April to october at best. (He lives in Peace River, Alberta). The man is 63 years old and has some pretty harsh medical problems, and works full time. I am sure he would double that if time, his pocket book and health would allow.

In my 30+ years of riding, the best I have ever done is 15,000 km and my riding season is at least a month longer than his. The family and job thingy has held me back however. (I just abandoned the job thingy. )

Dude, I think I've see that guy in Whitecourt at the gas station. Doesn't he have custom tags with his last name on it? French-Canadian sounding? Metis?

And I think he's got a Smartcar with the same tags and a little trailer for hauling the bike too?

[Ralf]

Strange the antagonism towards Harley riders in the US. Actually, in Germany if you wave to them, 99% of the time they wave back. It's actually the BMW riders here who have a chip on their shoulder and I would estimate at least 50% don't wave back. This coming from a Japanese sportbike/SM rider.

[Galo]

Strange the antagonism towards Harley riders in the US. Actually, in Germany if you wave to them, 99% of the time they wave back. It's actually the BMW riders here who have a chip on their shoulder and I would estimate at least 50% don't wave back. This coming from a Japanese sportbike/SM rider.

Ralf.....here in the US, it's almost always the opposite....it's the Harley riders who tend to look down at other bikets, ignore greetings, and occassionally ask us ST riders 'when are you gonna get a real bike?' -as happened to me about 2 years ago...
 

[Ralf]

Ralf.....here in the US, it's almost always the opposite....it's the Harley riders who tend to look down at other bikets, ignore greetings, and occassionally ask us ST riders 'when are you gonna get a real bike?' -as happened to me about 2 years ago...
 

99% of HD riders here have owned other bikes, so they have no delusions about what their bikes can or cannot do. They just want to take a different approach and enjoy the ride.

[TheGoose]

You sure he didn't say 137,000 millimeters?

Of course not, they don't do metric.

[Galo]

Galo, he's not a Harley owner.

He's a Harley rider.  

Best post here!
 

[bomber]

when I'm out in truely silly weather, almost all the other bikes I see are HDs --

when I bother to look at license plates, most of the far riders I see are on HDs --

while they don't make anything (with the possible excpetion of the new XR Sporty) that calls to me, and, while many HD riders are cartoons (ever check out the BMW riders at the local sunday morning meeting place?), the fact remains that there are a large number of HD riders out there that i respect

innit nice to have someone to demonize?

;-}

[UFO]

Based on what I see at work the stereotype that most Harleys are garage queens is still safe.

Only bikes I see parked outside when the weather is shit are:  Beat up Triumph Tiger (you know, the green striped ones ), ST1100, R1200GSA, FJR1300...and sometimes a scooter of some type.

Never Harleys...or supersports.  Ever.  YMMV.  

[chornbe]

Mine is the only motorcycle consistently at work. Either Harley. Paulie's Strat is in second place. The others are excessively fair weather for the most part, including the $35k custom chopper that shows up a couple of times a year. The V-Rod and Soft Tail are occasional-only shows. The one guy has a Low Rider and a Road King and he'll ride all the time if he could (each bike has gone coast to coast more than once), but he's in sales and is often out schmoozing clients.

[UFO]

Strange the antagonism towards Harley riders in the US. Actually, in Germany if you wave to them, 99% of the time they wave back. It's actually the BMW riders here who have a chip on their shoulder and I would estimate at least 50% don't wave back. This coming from a Japanese sportbike/SM rider.

Different biker culture that has absolutely nothing to do with the bike.

As far as waving goes:  I'm actually a bit sick of it myself.  During the warm months I spend so much g'damn time waving that it actually screws up the Zen-ness of my ride.

[atypical1]

Ralf.....here in the US, it's almost always the opposite....it's the Harley riders who tend to look down at other bikets, ignore greetings, and occassionally ask us ST riders 'when are you gonna get a real bike?' -as happened to me about 2 years ago...
 

Shit, I don't wave half the time at anyone either. Just because you ride a bike doesn't mean I like you or have anything in common with you. Most people (HD riders, ST riders, sportbike riders) are pricks who I don't care to know anyway. Why should I wave. People need to get over that "he didn't wave at me crap".

james

[st ryder]

Based on what I see at work the stereotype that most Harleys are garage queens is still safe.

Only bikes I see parked outside when the weather is shit are:  Beat up Triumph Tiger (you know, the green striped ones ), ST1100, R1200GSA, FJR1300...and sometimes a scooter of some type.

Never Harleys...or supersports.  Ever.  YMMV.  

It's about "values/beliefs" IMO. Why "waste" a great toruing bike, or great sporting bike on a boring commute? I've found little if any joy in using any bike I've had for commuting: my bikes are my recreational vehicles, for quality time, not my methods of transportation to get to work. And besides, I've been accussed of "showing off" my bikes the few times I've brought them to work. I don't need that crap. Additonally, I've out grown, well that's the way I describe it, the need to show others what a committed rider I am. I stopped riding in bad weather years ago. For me, not riding my bike to work or in bad weather, (unless of course I'm on tour then I ride through most anything) has nothing to do with the type of bike I own, it's about how I feel *my* bike should be used.  

So, the only thing that remains "safe" to say about HDs, is your view of them and the people who ride them, based on your experience, hasn't changed.  

[Geoff]

I can believe it.  The people I know w/ the most miles on their bikes are HD owners.

I agree. BMW riders rack up lots of miles, too. Both groups continue to ride even when temps drop below 40 degrees.

[bomber]

Why "waste" a great toruing bike, or great sporting bike on a boring commute? I've found little if any joy in using any bike I've had for commuting: my bikes are my recreational vehicles, for quality time, not my methods of transportation to get to work. And besides, I've been accussed of "showing off" my bikes the few times I've brought them to work. I don't need that crap. Additonally, I've out grown, well that's the way I describe it, the need to show others what a committed rider I am. I stopped riding in bad weather years ago. For me, not riding my bike to work or in bad weather, (unless of course I'm on tour then I ride through most anything) has nothing to do with the type of bike I own, it's about how I feel *my* bike should be used.  

So, the only thing that remains "safe" to say about HDs, is your view of them and the people who ride them, based on your experience, hasn't changed.  

Interesting thought process -- I commute on two wheels whenever I can -- when asked why (by a very enthusiastic golfer), I answered, "it's like getting to play 9 holes on the way to work."

No need to show anything to anyone -- just love to ride.

[st ryder]

Interesting thought process -- I commute on two wheels whenever I can -- when asked why (by a very enthusiastic golfer), I answered, "it's like getting to play 9 holes on the way to work."

No need to show anything to anyone -- just love to ride.

I like quality over quantity. Squeezing in a few 9 hole games of golf during the work week, would not appeal to me as much as playing 2 full 18 hole games on the weekend, on a great course, at my leisure. I love to ride too, but I don't ride just for the sake of riding. For me, those would be "wasted miles." YMMV.    

[atadaskew]

I'm with StRyder on this one. My commute is 8 miles one way of stop n go city traffic. I do not have any fun doing it on the bike because all I'm thinking is that I'd much rather head out of town and cruise up the coast or carve the canyons.
Lane splitting between city buses and SUVs gets tiresome real quick. If that's shooting 9holes, then that's gotta be the crappiest course!

[atypical1]

I guess it depends on your bike. I commute on my bike specifically because I like the challenge of lane splitting.

james

[Galo]

My commute is 15.2 miles, 10 of which are on a lovely, not too busy two-lane blacktop with at least a half-dozen nice, sweeping corners with a posted at 35 mph limit, which means they are just nice, clean fun at 60.  I also have only five lights from my house to the office....

Yes, I commute to work as much as I can.
 

[bomber]

what are these "wasted miles" of which you speak?

;-}

[atypical1]

Well...when your services are every 6K and they cost you several hundred dollars then every mile is precious...

james

[Yankee Dog]

Well...when your services are every 6K and they cost you several hundred dollars then every mile is precious...

james

My friend.  You need to buy a shop manual and a few tools.  My 6k service cost me about $40.  It takes way more time to take it to the dealer than it does to do the maintenance.  

Yankee Dog

[atypical1]

My friend.  You need to buy a shop manual and a few tools.  My 6k service cost me about $40.  It takes way more time to take it to the dealer than it does to do the maintenance.  

Yankee Dog

Yup, on my BMW it took Robert (BMW-K) and I just an hour or two. On my Ducati it took a dealer to do the work (when the bike actually ran).

james

[Yankee Dog]

Yup, on my BMW it took Robert (BMW-K) and I just an hour or two. On my Ducati it took a dealer to do the work (when the bike actually ran).

james

I stand corrected.  You dont need new tools.  You need a new bike.    

Yankee Dog

[atypical1]

Errrrrr...I have one already. The Duc is no mo.

james

[atadaskew]

Excuuuuse me.  This is a Harley thread.  Please be bashing the Harley here, not the Ducati.
Thankyouverymush.

[atypical1]

Oh...sorry about that. But I don't bash Harleys....I only bash Ducs to other Duc owners..I mean I have owned 3 of them...

james

[atadaskew]

I only bash Ducs to other Duc owners..I mean I have owned 3 of them...

james

It took you that long before you learnt?

[bomber]

Excuuuuse me.  This is a Harley thread.  Please be bashing the Harley here, not the Ducati.
Thankyouverymush.

Oops, sorry

My damn Buell won't put itself back together! I want a refund.

(how's that?)

[atypical1]

It took you that long before you learnt?

Well, I never claimed to be smart.

[st ryder]

what are these "wasted miles" of which you speak?

;-}

Using up expensive tires, chains, sprockets, oil, filters, plugs, and yes, serice interval mileage, on a less than gratifying ride that takes me nowhere special, when I could be burning up those expensive wear items on a ride that gives more joy, and takes me someplace more enjoyable than work. Those are the wasted miles of which I speak, and I get that feeling riding my BMW too, as I did with my Yammies, as I did with my HD. I exchange my money, and personal safety for the joy of riding a motorcycle as a recreational activity, not for commuting. My car is my commuter, my bike is my joy ride. No joy for me in riding it to work on the same roads, to the same destination. It defeats the purpose of owning a bike IMO. YMMV. 

[st ryder]

Yup, on my BMW it took Robert (BMW-K) and I just an hour or two. On my Ducati it took a dealer to do the work (when the bike actually ran).

james

Get back to us about BMW ease of service when you have to lube your shaft/pinion/clutch splines or bleed your abs.  

[atypical1]

Get back to us about BMW ease of service when you have to lube your shaft/pinion/clutch splines or bleed your abs.  

OK. My brakes were a breeze to bleed and I don't have to lube my shaft...that's why I got married.

james

[atadaskew]

Using up expensive tires, chains, sprockets, oil, filters, plugs, and yes, serice interval mileage, on a less than gratifying ride that takes me nowhere special, when I could be burning up those expensive wear items on a ride that gives more joy, and takes me someplace more enjoyable than work. Those are the wasted miles of which I speak, and I get that feeling riding my BMW too, as I did with my Yammies, as I did with my HD. I exchange my money, and personal safety for the joy of riding a motorcycle as a recreational activity, not for commuting. My car is my commuter, my bike is my joy ride. No joy for me in riding it to work on the same roads, to the same destination. It defeats the purpose of owning a bike IMO. YMMV. 

I agree.  My commute to work is 8 miles one way in stop-n-go traffic that has little to no room to lanesplit.  So I rarely bother.  But I think some people think it proves that they are a 'real' biker if they ride everywhere.  For me motorcycling is about enjoyment.  There's no feeling of freedom and enjoyment stuck in motionless traffic getting hot and sweaty.
I save it for my recreational rides.

[rauchman]

Using up expensive tires, chains, sprockets, oil, filters, plugs, and yes, serice interval mileage, on a less than gratifying ride that takes me nowhere special, when I could be burning up those expensive wear items on a ride that gives more joy, and takes me someplace more enjoyable than work. Those are the wasted miles of which I speak, and I get that feeling riding my BMW too, as I did with my Yammies, as I did with my HD. I exchange my money, and personal safety for the joy of riding a motorcycle as a recreational activity, not for commuting. My car is my commuter, my bike is my joy ride. No joy for me in riding it to work on the same roads, to the same destination. It defeats the purpose of owning a bike IMO. YMMV. 

+1  I work about 15 minutes from home and have considered riding to work numerous times.  Can't believe that riding to work would be an enjoyable experience.  Would rather save it for when I can savor it.

[chornbe]

For me, commuting on the bike gives me plenty of down time to ease my mind, let the stress slip away and allows me an hour at each end of the day to just be in my own head. I work a fairly high-pressure job and commuting on the bike is less expensive and far more satisfying than therapy or kicking the dog and kids when I get home.  

[st ryder]

OK. My brakes were a breeze to bleed and I don't have to lube my shaft...that's why I got married.

James

No ABS on your BMW? Nice.  

One thing marriage and your BMWs have in common, is you get the shaft either way. Your clutch/drive shaft/pinion spline lube time *will* come, and then you'll have to disassemble 1/2 the bike to smear some grease on your clutch splines. If you take it to a dealer, that's about 600.00+ in labour to apply 50 cents worth of grease.   If you do it yourself, and you want to do it *properly*, it takes about 6-8 hours. Enjoy.  

[chornbe]

... and every time I think about considering putting a BMW or Ducati in the garage, I read posts like this and come to my senses. I don't mind expensive bikes (clearly), but I sure as hell mind bikes I have to spend a lot on *after* the sale. I do far too much errand-riding, commuting, vacation trips and general-use riding to waste much time and money on "routine" stuff. It was a real factor in my decision on the Harleys. Never has a simpler machine graced the road than a modern Sportster.

[atadaskew]

 Never has a simpler machine graced the road than a modern Sportster.

Buell B-Last?

 

[atypical1]

No ABS on your BMW? Nice.  

One thing marriage and your BMWs have in common, is you get the shaft either way. Your clutch/drive shaft/pinion spline lube time *will* come, and then you'll have to disassemble 1/2 the bike to smear some grease on your clutch splines. If you take it to a dealer, that's about 600.00+ in labour to apply 50 cents worth of grease.   If you do it yourself, and you want to do it *properly*, it takes about 6-8 hours. Enjoy.  

My bike has switchblade ABS but the brakes bled just like any other ones do. I don't get the difference.

One time shot at $600 is way cheaper than twice a year services at my Duc dealer.

james

[bomber]

Blast was a great scoot! the honda 305 of it's generation -- ours was ridden into the ground by a bunch or learners/reentry riders, and now happily serves it's new owner --

not suitable for every mission, certainly, but great at the ones it was designed for

[st ryder]

...One time shot at $600...

  "One time shot"    

   

[atadaskew]

Hey now, pump those brakes fellas!
This is the Harley section, no Bimmer Duc wars allowed!  Take it outside.

[GilaMonster]

My bike has switchblade ABS but the brakes bled just like any other ones do. I don't get the difference.

One time shot at $600 is way cheaper than twice a year services at my Duc dealer.

james

James,

It's all in the timing.  I try to pace my riding on both bikes so the BMW is due for a valve check and annual at the same time as the Duc is due for cam belts.  Then for giggles, I go out and buy a can of beans to eat for the month.

[atypical1]

James,

It's all in the timing.  I try to pace my riding on both bikes so the BMW is due for a valve check and annual at the same time as the Duc is due for cam belts.  Then for giggles, I go out and buy a can of beans to eat for the month.

True. But then you didn't own my POS Multi  

james