cracking down on left-lane campers,

[Elseanno]

'Bout freakin' time! $124 seems low, maybe $500?

Quote:
In these days of longer commutes and simmering tempers, nothing seems to set off already-testy motorists like the left-lane camper -- the guy or gal who drives in the passing lane and bars faster drivers from easily passing. Web sites have cropped up to educate other drivers, or to vent. There's a (somewhat painful) YouTube song called "Keep Right."

Even bigwigs get frustrated. Pennsylvania Gov. Edward Rendell, weary of having his limo slowed down by such left-lane pokies, ordered an aide to have the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission install signs a few years ago reading "Keep Right, Pass Left. It's the Law."

And now some states are cracking down on left-lane campers, both to keep traffic moving and to tamp down the road rage that goes from zero-to-60 faster than ever before.

'One of my biggest pet peeves'
One of those exasperated drivers in your rearview mirror might be Eli Dozier.

"That's one of my biggest pet peeves in the world, is when people stay in the left lane. They're not passing, they've got people behind them, trying to go around, and they just cruise," says Dozier, 31 and a stay-at-home dad.

"It's probably the most uncourteous thing you can do," he says, adding that it's "obviously" unsafe.

"I'm a fast driver," Dozier allows. "But if I'm not passing, I don't use that left lane at all."

So what's a frustrated motorist to do?



That's not just a pretext. Last year, a driver was arrested on Interstate 79 outside Pittsburgh after allegedly brandishing a semiautomatic pistol at a driver who was on his tail.

You could get a ticket

Some states didn't allow left-lane lingering but didn't enforce the law. Now they are.

At the start of the summer, the Washington State Patrol began pulling people over for violating the state's left-lane law, which prohibits "impeding the flow of other traffic."

Talk back: What are your biggest pet peeves on the road?

"This a real big hot-button topic for the public at large right now," says Trooper Cliff Pratt. "We've had a lot of complaints" from drivers who've had to deal with left-lane campers.

So far authorities have been gentle with the $124 ticket; the drivers stopped were given verbal warnings.

Last year, news outlets reported that Oklahoma was bolstering enforcement of its left-lane law as well.


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"We deal with it weekly," Lt. George Brown, supervisor of public affairs for the Oklahoma Highway Patrol, said of left-lane drivers going too slowly. He's issued more warnings than tickets.

Insurers haven't gotten aggressive yet, either, but this kind of ticket has the potential to raise rates.

"Any moving violation that applies points to a driver's record could affect that driver's car insurance rates," says Susan Gallik Rouser, a spokeswoman for Progressive. "And because left-lane driving would be considered as such an infraction, we would take that into account when renewing a driver's policy."

What's the law in your state?
The laws vary widely, according to John Carr, who works for a software company in the Boston area and who compiled a list of the rules in each state after taking an interest in the issue:

A few states -- for instance, Kentucky, Maine Massachusetts and New Jersey -- permit use of the left lane only for passing or turning left.

Georgia, Colorado and Louisiana follow the Uniform Vehicle Code, requiring drivers to keep right if they're going slower than the speed of traffic.

Wyoming prohibits blocking the far left lane of a highway "for a prolonged period," though it adds that the traffic should be "at a lawful rate of speed."

In Arkansas and South Dakota, vehicles don't have to stay right.

In Alaska, Maryland, North Carolina and Ohio, vehicles can drive in the left lane so long as they're moving at the speed limit.

Florida is trying to join in: Lawmakers reintroduced a Road Rage Reduction Act this year, requiring motorists to stay out of the left lane on interstate highways except when passing. It passed the Legislature in 2005 but was vetoed by then-Gov. Jeb Bush, who questioned whether it was based on sound research.

It's no wonder drivers can be confused, and often frustrated
Dozier heard in a chat room about some windshield decals that said "Slower Traffic," with an arrow pointing to the right-hand lane, printed backward in large letters for reading in a rearview mirror. "And so I immediately ordered one. I jumped on it."

He loves the thing. "Most people, it's just inattentiveness" that keeps them in the passing lane, Dozier says. "Most people, when you pass them, they'll give you a wave. They're thankful" for the reminder


Reest of article here: http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourCar/left-lane-slowpokes-drive-you-crazy.aspx?page=2

Elseanno

[2WheelTiger]

Washington has always been pretty decent about left lingerers.  Unfortunately, the Seattle area has LOTS of left lane exits so it can get a little murky around here.  But on the open road, get your stupid, unthinking ass over to the right!  If you wanna be brain dead, ride the bus.

[TuffguyF4i]

Almost 100% of people in the left lane are speeding.  So giving a ticket for holding up traffic really can't be given if you're going the speed limit or a touch over.

[chuckfina]

I think people that impede traffic in the passing lane should be made to walk really slow for a couple of hours through a Wal-Mart at Christmas time.  I can't stand the inconsiderate fucks!

[chuckfina]

Almost 100% of people in the left lane are speeding.  So giving a ticket for holding up traffic really can't be given if you're going the speed limit or a touch over.

If the lane is designated a passing lane and you are not passing, then you get a ticket.  That sounds good to me.

[TuffguyF4i]

If the lane is designated a passing lane and you are not passing, then you get a ticket.  That sounds good to me.

I completely agree...
But how do you give a "holding up traffic" ticket for a guy thats going 65 in a 55?  

[chuckfina]

I completely agree...
But how do you give a "holding up traffic" ticket for a guy thats going 65 in a 55?  

Give the fucker a speeding ticket, too!

[waz]

It's a shame there's got to be a law to force people to be considerate towards other motorists.  I guess their mommas didn't raise them right.

We've got our share of rude jerks here in western NC - I hope the General Assembly is working on something similar here.

I also like Oregon's (?) law that requires people to pull over on 2 lane roads when they have more than 3 cars stacked up behind them.

[Cricket1]

I completely agree...
But how do you give a "holding up traffic" ticket for a guy thats going 65 in a 55?  

Agreed, but here is the issue, what if someone has a true emergency?? The a#$%hat who is blocking the left lane, and trying to enforce the speed limit, has NO BUSINESS doing that. It is up to the police to enforce the law, not some do gooder who think they know best. But in reality, the left lane blocker could be endangering some one's life by not getting out of the way!!

[sprale]

I also like Oregon's (?) law that requires people to pull over on 2 lane roads when they have more than 3 cars stacked up behind them.

In rural and southern Texas, most drivers do this when it's safe (like straights with shoulders). It really cuts down on aggressive drivers.

[Global Rider]

Almost 100% of people in the left lane are speeding.  So giving a ticket for holding up traffic really can't be given if you're going the speed limit or a touch over.

You're missing the point...the left lane is a passing lane. What that means is, you pass and then pull back over no matter what speed you're doing.

Try your method on the autobahn and you'll be paying one hell of a fine, not to mention get a popularity award.

[2RR2NV]

figures...no wonder the people out here are morons...  no law against it. makes me miss my ole Powerwagon. anyone that saw that grill coming up on them...MOVED over NOW. Loved it. ugly as sin, but people didn't like being in front of it. fine by me.

[STArnie13]

I don't mind someone staying in the left lane if I can go around.  They aren't being nice but at least you can still get by.  The ones I really don't like are the ones that pull up alongside another car and just pace it for a couple of miles making sure that two lanes are backed up.  I have seen that more than once.  Some people just have to mess with others-nothing better to do I guess.

[2RR2NV]

I don't mind someone staying in the left lane if I can go around.  They aren't being nice but at least you can still get by.  The ones I really don't like are the ones that pull up alongside another car and just pace it for a couple of miles making sure that two lanes are backed up.  I have seen that more than once.  Some people just have to mess with others-nothing better to do I guess.

true true... if they are in the left lane cruising and the right is open, i'm gone. no biggie. but yeah we get it alot with people pacing...especially during the Sturgis thingamajig. TONS of pacing going during that. i usually just stay home or try to take back roads to get to the good roads. but even then....the good roads have the sightseers..

[Paulie]

'Bout freakin' time! ...

+1! Lotsa these numbskull BDCs are yappin away on their cel. I needs to find "Hang Up and Drive" stickers fer the cage & scoot. As if that'll help.

[Open Sore]

I think its sad day when they have to fine people for not doing something (moving to the right lane) that should be common courtesy or common sense.

[Walker]

Agreed, but here is the issue, what if someone has a true emergency?? The a#$%hat who is blocking the left lane, and trying to enforce the speed limit, has NO BUSINESS doing that. It is up to the police to enforce the law, not some do gooder who think they know best. But in reality, the left lane blocker could be endangering some one's life by not getting out of the way!!

So there I was, my wife is in labor, her water broke, and I'm on I-5 trying to get to St. Joseph's in Tacoma.  I'm flashing my highbeams, leaning on the horn simultaneously while trying to go as fast as my Isuzu will allow.  95% of the drivers got out of the fast lane right away.  4% after they took a long look in their rear view... some I didn't wait for and went around if I had the opening.... still flashing away the whole time..... then there was this total biotch in a Jaguar who REFUSED to move over, then when I tried to go around her on the right, she jumped over and blocked me!  So I did what every SUV driver has always dreamed about doing, I gave her a tap with my brush guard on her trunk.  Sure hope it left nice dents... she got over after that.

My daughter was born exactly 12 minutes after we entered the hospital parking lot, 4 minutes after we got her in the room...... probably about 25 minutes after the water broke.

[stefrrr]

Holy shit!  

[Snowbird]

So there I was, my wife is in labor, her water broke, and I'm on I-5 trying to get to St. Joseph's in Tacoma.  I'm flashing my highbeams, leaning on the horn simultaneously while trying to go as fast as my Isuzu will allow.  95% of the drivers got out of the fast lane right away.  4% after they took a long look in their rear view... some I didn't wait for and went around if I had the opening.... still flashing away the whole time..... then there was this total biotch in a Jaguar who REFUSED to move over, then when I tried to go around her on the right, she jumped over and blocked me!  So I did what every SUV driver has always dreamed about doing, I gave her a tap with my brush guard on her trunk.  Sure hope it left nice dents... she got over after that.

My daughter was born exactly 12 minutes after we entered the hospital parking lot, 4 minutes after we got her in the room...... probably about 25 minutes after the water broke.

And so, you risked killing four people because your wife was having a baby? Real sensible, dude.

[Stray Cat]

Washington has always been pretty decent about left lingerers. Unfortunately, the Seattle area has LOTS of left lane exits so it can get a little murky around here.  But on the open road, get your stupid, unthinking ass over to the right!  If you wanna be brain dead, ride the bus.

Unfortunately other then putting up some signs, there doesn't seem to be any enforcement here in Washington.
I'd bet that there has never been a citation issued in this state for not moving over, except for an emergency vehicle. I wonder if there is a way to check the citations issued at the states web site to see?

[TuffguyF4i]

You're missing the point...the left lane is a passing lane. What that means is, you pass and then pull back over no matter what speed you're doing.

Try your method on the autobahn and you'll be paying one hell of a fine, not to mention get a popularity award.

I'm not missing the point at all.  Left lane hangers are annoying and cause cause congestion and are breaking the law.  Its about as simple of a concept to grasp as an apple being the color red.

I'm just saying cracking down on left lane hangers, could be very difficult if they are already doing the speed limit.  

Here in CT, people go 75-90 in 50 zones.  You hang up traffic even if you are making a 20+ pass.  It's actually very unsafe here with only 2-3 lanes at your disposal.  
Should the guy going 75 in a 50 get a ticket?  Well sure, i'd like to see him get a ticket too.  But the reality of it is that a cop isn't going to touch him since he was already speeding.  

I can see that in court....

Cop: you where impeding traffic
Left lang hanger:  I was going 20+ over the speed limit!

Case closed.

[blackbuell]

Like Paulie already said....around here when you finally get around the idiots clogging up the left lane you are likely to see them with cell phone in hand. Unfortunately, the problem is getting worse all the time.

Jon

[Stray Cat]

I'm not missing the point at all.  Left lane hangers are annoying and cause cause congestion and are breaking the law.  Its about as simple of a concept to grasp as an apple being the color red.

I'm just saying cracking down on left lane hangers, could be very difficult if they are already doing the speed limit.  

Here in CT, people go 75-90 in 50 zones.  You hang up traffic even if you are making a 20+ pass.  It's actually very unsafe here with only 2-3 lanes at your disposal.  
Should the guy going 75 in a 50 get a ticket?  Well sure, i'd like to see him get a ticket too.  But the reality of it is that a cop isn't going to touch him since he was already speeding.  

I can see that in court....

Cop: you where impeding traffic
Left lang hanger:  I was going 20+ over the speed limit!

Case closed.

Not exactly.
In Washington you must keep right except to pass. So even if you are doing 20 over if you aren't passing anyone, you are technically breaking the keep right law by hanging out in the left lane.

[Dan K]

Talk is cheap.  Enforcement?  Cops have enough to enforce already.  I foresee very few of these tickets actually being issued.

Open road, riding in left lane may get ticketed, but the ones that are blocking?  The ones that really piss you off?  Not going to get enforced.  Too much traffic.

- Dan

[bomber]

SPent a couple of days motoring through part of Canada last summer -- along with the generally friendly people, the biggest eye-opener was the almost total lack of left-lane bandits . . . .

Wonderful experience -- of course, on the way home, we had to go through Detroit, so that pretty much made up for it ;-}

Illionois supposedly has a law against being in the left hand lane for more than ten minutes -- I've never heard tell of it being enforced, though -- given the design of the statute, I'd guess it's aimed at big-rig truckers that wish to pass someone that's moving 1/10,000 of a mile per hour slower than they are -- it can take most of the state for these passes to be accomplished.

[2RR2NV]

So there I was, my wife is in labor, her water broke, and I'm on I-5 trying to get to St. Joseph's in Tacoma.  I'm flashing my highbeams, leaning on the horn simultaneously while trying to go as fast as my Isuzu will allow.  95% of the drivers got out of the fast lane right away.  4% after they took a long look in their rear view... some I didn't wait for and went around if I had the opening.... still flashing away the whole time..... then there was this total biotch in a Jaguar who REFUSED to move over, then when I tried to go around her on the right, she jumped over and blocked me!  So I did what every SUV driver has always dreamed about doing, I gave her a tap with my brush guard on her trunk.  Sure hope it left nice dents... she got over after that.

My daughter was born exactly 12 minutes after we entered the hospital parking lot, 4 minutes after we got her in the room...... probably about 25 minutes after the water broke.

grats gettin there safe and sound. reminds me of a story that happened this past week, lady being taken to the hospital, got pulled over and ticketed because they were breaking the limit. Nice Cop!!!



WTF!!??

[ctbandit]

But how do you give a "holding up traffic" ticket for a guy thats going 65 in a 55?  

Where's the R.Markus wisdom on this one?  

[Hickey]

Illinois supposedly has a law against being in the left hand lane for more than ten minutes -- I've never heard tell of it being enforced, though.

It is easier to catch speeders and ticket them.  Catching and ticketing left-lane-campers almost certainly requires more time and effort.  It seems to me that the only way to catch them would be to follow them relatively closely for many minutes while recording it on the dash camera.  So one ticket ends up costing the officer as much as an hour, including the time spent pulled over while issuing the ticket.

That said, if the law is on the books and the state troopers are going to be driving around anyway to get from one speed trap to another-- why not put some effort into enforcing it?

[bomber]

Very good question, Bill -- one I, sadly, have to rational answer for --

now, irrational answer, I could probobly cobble something up!

[Walker]

And so, you risked killing four people because your wife was having a baby? Real sensible, dude.

   Oh please.  I've been racing cars in the SCCA since I first got a license, and go carts before that.  The Army had also been kind enough to send me to driving course (run by the DSS).  

Giving a car a 'love tap' with less than a 1 mph speed differential at under 50 mph (after she pulled in front of me and hit her brakes) didn't even trip my danger radar.  I was nowhere even near the edge of control for that vehicle.

Sure, I could have hit my brakes and avoided it, and it wasn't my proudest moment, but you have your wife next to you screaming in pain, with your child being born three weeks too early, and lets just see how sensible you act.

Nope, my proudest moment came less than 20 minutes later.

[Global Rider]

Cop: you where impeding traffic
Left lang hanger:  I was going 20+ over the speed limit!

Case closed.

We're not discussing speeding.

If you are doing 20 over and the driver behind you wants to do 25 over, then get the puck over and let him pass. It isn't your place to enforce the traffic laws.

In a friendly exchange of words at a traffic light:
Me: do you know what the left lane is for?
Him: but I was already doing 20 clicks over (12 MPH)!
Me: Oh, so that means someone else can't do 25 clicks over?  

[bomber]

If folks insist on acting like a mobil chicane, they shouldn't be surprised to get a love tap from time to time

stand tall, Walker -- ya done good.

[kevin_stevens]

   Oh please.  I've been racing cars in the SCCA since I first got a license, and go carts before that.  The Army had also been kind enough to send me to driving course (run by the DSS).  

Giving a car a 'love tap' with less than a 1 mph speed differential at under 50 mph (after she pulled in front of me and hit her brakes) didn't even trip my danger radar.  I was nowhere even near the edge of control for that vehicle.

Sure, I could have hit my brakes and avoided it, and it wasn't my proudest moment, but you have your wife next to you screaming in pain, with your child being born three weeks too early, and lets just see how sensible you act.

Nope, my proudest moment came less than 20 minutes later.

And what about the other driver's edge of control?

KeS

[jfurf]

The real problem is that here in the U.S., passing on the right is not taboo. It's more or less accepted and not a big deal. It will take years to fix this, but it can be done. Try teaching new drivers to pass only on the left. That's a good start. And require state DOTs to launch awareness campaigns.

I was amazed when I drove in Europe and got into the left lane on the French autoroute (freeway), only to find a Citroen three feet off my bumper at 90 mph.   THAT will teach your ass a lesson in road etiquette, real quick. They ain't goin' around your right!

[Bounce]

Almost 100% of people in the left lane are speeding.  So giving a ticket for holding up traffic really can't be given if you're going the speed limit or a touch over.

wrong. it depends on how the state statutes are written. if it's "left lane passing only", "slower traffic right" or "impeading the flow" then it may be unlinked to the posted limit. it doesn't matter if the passing traffic is speeding or not in those locations; move right. what it boils down to is that it's not the job of the citizen driver to play traffic cop by making their vehicle a rolling road cone.
Posted on: December 10, 2008, 03:21:32 pm

Cop: you where impeding traffic
Left lang hanger:  I was going 20+ over the speed limit!

judge: admission of guilt while under oath, guilty of speeding as well as failure to obey posted traffic signs (keep right except to pass). [BANG] see the clerk.

[ctbandit]

The real problem is that here in the U.S., passing on the right is not taboo. It's more or less accepted and not a big deal. It will take years to fix this, but it can be done. Try teaching new drivers to pass only on the left. That's a good start. And require state DOTs to launch awareness campaigns.

I was amazed when I drove in Europe and got into the left lane on the French autoroute (freeway), only to find a Citroen three feet off my bumper at 90 mph.   THAT will teach your ass a lesson in road etiquette, real quick. They ain't goin' around your right!

I agree about the right lane passing being commonplace here in the states. I think people feel others will go around them regardless of which lane they're in.

We're not discussing speeding.

If you are doing 20 over and the driver behind you wants to do 25 over, then get the puck over and let him pass. It isn't your place to enforce the traffic laws.

In a friendly exchange of words at a traffic light:
Me: do you know what the left lane is for?
Him: but I was already doing 20 clicks over (12 MPH)!
Me: Oh, so that means someone else can't do 25 clicks over?  

The last conversation really hit home your point. What's to say you should decide what the proper speed is even if you are going over the speed limit.

But, in the defense of the alternative argument, no one SHOULD be going over the speed limit, so then it can be interpreted that so called left lane campers are not in the wrong assuming they are maintaining the speed limit.

Further still, to support this law, many states have a "stay right except to pass" law, so regardless of actual speed you should only be in the left lane in order to complete a pass.

So now lets take CT for example. I95 has three lanes, and for 70% of the day all of these lanes have plenty of traffic moving along. Usually, the left lane is passing, if only at a rate 3 or 4 mph faster than the lane to the right. So while you may be going 90 in the left lane, if the guy in front of you in the left is going 75 and the lane in the center is traveling 70, he is still in the right in the regard of being in the left to pass. And since there are a seemingly endless amount of vehicles in the center lane, the "left lane camper" could argue that he is passing the whole time.

What it boils down to is road manners. I expect people to pull to the right when there is an opportunity if they are traveling slower than me, and I do the same whenever I am traveling slow, which is usually in the car. Enforcing this law will be as arbitrary as LEO's make enforcing speeds. In this state, on major highways you could argue that you are always passing someone, there's just that much traffic.

[TuffguyF4i]

We're not discussing speeding.

If you are doing 20 over and the driver behind you wants to do 25 over, then get the puck over and let him pass. It isn't your place to enforce the traffic laws.

In a friendly exchange of words at a traffic light:
Me: do you know what the left lane is for?
Him: but I was already doing 20 clicks over (12 MPH)!
Me: Oh, so that means someone else can't do 25 clicks over?  

I'm trying to remember the last time i was hung up behind someone in the left lane going under the limit....so speeding is relative.

Check your attitude man.  I'm not saying anything i'm not saying.    I ride too!  Slow people in the left lane drive me nuts!!!!  

I'm simply wondering how you enforce this law.  Its gotta be tough because i've NEVER heard of anyone getting a ticket for it.

[FJR1300]

Where's the R.Markus wisdom on this one?  

It's simple... you don't, you give them a speeding ticket.  Why do some people make simple things so hard?

[FJR1300]

   Oh please.  I've been racing cars in the SCCA since I first got a license, and go carts before that.  The Army had also been kind enough to send me to driving course (run by the DSS).  

Giving a car a 'love tap' with less than a 1 mph speed differential at under 50 mph (after she pulled in front of me and hit her brakes) didn't even trip my danger radar.  I was nowhere even near the edge of control for that vehicle.

Sure, I could have hit my brakes and avoided it, and it wasn't my proudest moment, but you have your wife next to you screaming in pain, with your child being born three weeks too early, and lets just see how sensible you act.

Nope, my proudest moment came less than 20 minutes later.

Wow... they don't have ambulances in your area!  That's really scary!  Oh wait, they do?  I guess the proper thing to do would have been to call an ambulance if you thought your wife was that close to delivering.

[Lord Jim]

Almost 100% of people in the left lane are speeding.  So giving a ticket for holding up traffic really can't be given if you're going the speed limit or a touch over.

Out here in California if you're doing the speed limit and holding up traffic (ie: long line of vehicles behind you) you can and will be given a ticket for impeding traffic. This topic was just confirmed by the CHP when a local inquired about this very scenario in the local newspaper column.  

[vguy]

I've noticed that people in the Southeast, especially in N and S Carolina almost always drive to the right, leaving the left open for passing only.
Here in California it's almost like folks are still learning how to drive and are unaware of the basics -- which by the way are never emphasized in the DMV manual.
Lane sharing? Many are dumbfounded when I pass them at 15 mph and act like I just rode across their lawn...
Mountain roads? They pass countless turnouts forcing me to cross the D-yellow (in a huff)...
Freeway driving? Forget-about-it!
Remember when people in the big cities knew how to drive? It seems to be the opposite these days.

[Quickv4]

Watch a video of someone driving on the autobahn, then youll see how your supposed to drive! If you inch up to somebody, they WILL pull over to let you pass, very attentive drivers. No wonder their no-speed limit roads have a lower accident rate than our 65mph interstates.

We wont ever see an American autobahn, unless we get people in cages off their cellphones, and two hands on the wheel, while routiniely scanning the mirriors!

[Indy Raven YZF]

Just came back from Arkansas (with a bunch of slower traffic keep right signs posted) and were forced to pass numerous times on the right (we weren't even doing 80).  Got the finger a bunch of times too, and this wasn't even with the left lane cars being remotely close to passsing any one.  Michigan is the worst, I hate I-94, I try to avoid it at all costs.  

Don't get it, pass and move over, I think people are just too lazy to move between lanes, easier to hang out in one.

[roadrunner]

just the other day a guy in the left lane paced the vehicle in the right lane for 12 miles from one town to the next.  It was early in the morning and we were the only three on the road.  I tried flashing my lights, backing off, but all was in vain when we got in to town I was able to pull up next to him at the stop light and proceeded to rip into him about driver curtesy, yeilding to traffic etc, all he could respond was "what I wasn't speeding".  Nothing burns me more than inconsiderate drivers, especially left lane bandits.  I supose this is one reason I love riding motorcycles, it really decreases my anger that would rage when I'm driving a car.

[Mydlyfkryzis]

Wow... they don't have ambulances in your area!  That's really scary!  Oh wait, they do?  I guess the proper thing to do would have been to call an ambulance if you thought your wife was that close to delivering.

Maybe your ambulance squad is next to your house, but the last time I needed to take my wife tot he hospital, I didn't want to wait 20-30 minutes for the ambulance to arrive. Some days are quicker, but in my area, it's a volunteer squad, and you have to wait for the EMT's (who are great, and I appreciate their service), to drive tot he Ambulance Squad House, and roll.

Walker may be in the same situation. I can get top to the local hospital faster than the ambulance can make it to my house.

YMMV

[B-rent]

Timely thread. There's a line to be drawn here and I haven't seen a post yet mention it. What if you are in the left lane passing people but you're not passing people at the rate that those who are behind you want you to pass? Does this still count as blocking the left lane?

Case in point, I was driving in the left lane going 70mph. The guy I was passing sped up when I was passing him so my original passing speed of 10mph faster than him was reduced to 5mph if not less. I was still passing him, although more slowly than I was initially. I'm still going 70mph though. The guy behind me, in a fit of frustration, drove his pickup truck so close to my Corolla I could only see the top of his lights and the hood of his truck in my rear view mirror. So because I wasn't passing at the speed he wanted me to pass I'm at fault? I'm the inconsiderate one? Where do you draw the line?

If I'm going 90mph and I'm STILL passing people but I'm not passing at a fast enough speed to make the people in back happy, I'm at fault?

People should not camp the left lane. But, if someone is passing people at 57mph when the speed limit is 55mph, the other folks who think they deserve to pass because they want to pass faster need to check themselves. Does that make sense?   Or is it too much passing and checking?    It is the passing lane, whether you're passing at 5mph over the speed limit, or 20mph over the speed limit.

[ctbandit]

Timely thread. There's a line to be drawn here and I haven't seen a post yet mention it. What if you are in the left lane passing people but you're not passing people at the rate that those who are behind you want you to pass? Does this still count as blocking the left lane?

Case in point, I was driving in the left lane going 70mph. The guy I was passing sped up when I was passing him so my original passing speed of 10mph faster than him was reduced to 5mph if not less. I was still passing him, although more slowly than I was initially. I'm still going 70mph though. The guy behind me, in a fit of frustration, drove his pickup truck so close to my Corolla I could only see the top of his lights and the hood of his truck in my rear view mirror. So because I wasn't passing at the speed he wanted me to pass I'm at fault? I'm the inconsiderate one? Where do you draw the line?

If I'm going 90mph and I'm STILL passing people but I'm not passing at a fast enough speed to make the people in back happy, I'm at fault?

People should not camp the left lane. But, if someone is passing people at 57mph when the speed limit is 55mph, the other folks who think they deserve to pass because they want to pass faster need to check themselves. Does that make sense?   Or is it too much passing and checking?    It is the passing lane, whether you're passing at 5mph over the speed limit, or 20mph over the speed limit.

Actually I mentioned the exact scenario from the first part - passing at 75mph but someone still wants to go faster to pass;

and the second part, if your going over the speed limit in the act passing are you still required to yield to faster traffic, is what the whole thread is about.

Not to step on toes, just saying the whole thread is about "the line" being drawn

[ianbh]

IMHO Texas is the worst with CA a close second but it's getting worse all over.  Ian, Iowa

[ctbandit]

I'm simply wondering how you enforce this law.  Its gotta be tough because i've NEVER heard of anyone getting a ticket for it.

If you've ever been on the section of rt 34 between Derby and New haven, the 4 lane part, you KNOW this law is not enforced. I've spent that entire stretch stuck behind people doing the exact same speed hundreds of times. I avoid that road like the plague when commuting.

[B-rent]

Actually I mentioned the exact scenario from the first part - passing at 75mph but someone still wants to go faster to pass;

and the second part, if your going over the speed limit in the act passing are you still required to yield to faster traffic, is what the whole thread is about.  

Not to step on toes, just saying the whole thread is about "the line" being drawn

I read many posts but didn't see that portion of your response ctbandit. No worries.

The thread, as I understood up to this point, was should people who are in the left lane be required to get over if they are going over the speed limit and people want to pass them? The speed limit was the basis of this argument.

The point I was making differed from this perspective as I was pointing out, as you did, that even if you are or aren't going over the speed limit and you're in the fast lane passing, (in other words, the speed doesn't matter, you're passing people) does the fact that you are still passing people matter? Anyway...

[ctbandit]

does the fact that you are still passing people matter? Anyway...

That smiley was too much..

Indeed, which is where I think this law, like many - including speeding - leave the judgment/justice too much in the hands of individual enforcers(LEOs).


I feel like this law is like putting a law on requiring to hold the door for someone behind you, or some other courtesy that should be given but by no means always is.

[Snowbird]

   Oh please.  I've been racing cars in the SCCA since I first got a license, and go carts before that.  The Army had also been kind enough to send me to driving course (run by the DSS).  

Giving a car a 'love tap' with less than a 1 mph speed differential at under 50 mph (after she pulled in front of me and hit her brakes) didn't even trip my danger radar.  I was nowhere even near the edge of control for that vehicle.

Sure, I could have hit my brakes and avoided it, and it wasn't my proudest moment, but you have your wife next to you screaming in pain, with your child being born three weeks too early, and lets just see how sensible you act.

Nope, my proudest moment came less than 20 minutes later.

You sound like a former neighbor of mine I had arrested for shooting toward me. His explanation? "I'm an expert; you were in no danger."

ex = a has-been
(s)pert = a drip under pressure

You were wrong.

[Snowbird]

I'm not missing the point at all.  Left lane hangers are annoying and cause cause congestion and are breaking the law.  Its about as simple of a concept to grasp as an apple being the color red.

I'm just saying cracking down on left lane hangers, could be very difficult if they are already doing the speed limit.  

Here in CT, people go 75-90 in 50 zones.  You hang up traffic even if you are making a 20+ pass.  It's actually very unsafe here with only 2-3 lanes at your disposal.  
Should the guy going 75 in a 50 get a ticket?  Well sure, i'd like to see him get a ticket too.  But the reality of it is that a cop isn't going to touch him since he was already speeding.  

I can see that in court....

Cop: you where impeding traffic
Left lang hanger:  I was going 20+ over the speed limit!

Case closed.

I agree with the bolded.

The speed limit is the same in every lane. You'll find it, folks, on the black and white signs.

The proper use of the 'slower traffic keep right' sign is for upgrades where some vehicles may not be able to keep up with other traffic. Some states may have other laws that apply to keeping right.

The reason there are multiple lanes (more than two) is because the roadway is expected to carry more traffic than the right lane can hold. Therefore, some traffic will be in other than the right lane and NOT be actively passing. Passing is just one reason to be in other than the right lane.

[st2sam]

If folks insist on acting like a mobil chicane, they shouldn't be surprised to get a love tap from time to time

stand tall, Walker -- ya done good.

+2    Left lane bandits should be hung by their thumbs and beat with a gas pedal...
If someone wants to pass let them get by, it's no big deal and everyone is happy......

[ctbandit]

The reason there are multiple lanes (more than two) is because the roadway is expected to carry more traffic than the right lane can hold. Therefore, some traffic will be in other than the right lane and NOT be actively passing. Passing is just one reason to be in other than the right lane.

I totally agree, but I think the idea is still to keep the left lane for passing, not traveling, Although I feel at a certain point the road becomes "saturated" and the left would have to be used as a travel lane.But like I said, this should be when there's lots of traffic in the other two lanes, not when you feel like going 65 in the left and are too lazy to move over to the middle lane with all the other people going 65.

[2006FJR]

IMHO CA is the worst with Texas a close second but it's getting worse all over.  Ian, Iowa

I fixed it for you.  

[FJR1300]

Maybe your ambulance squad is next to your house, but the last time I needed to take my wife tot he hospital, I didn't want to wait 20-30 minutes for the ambulance to arrive. Some days are quicker, but in my area, it's a volunteer squad, and you have to wait for the EMT's (who are great, and I appreciate their service), to drive tot he Ambulance Squad House, and roll.

Walker may be in the same situation. I can get top to the local hospital faster than the ambulance can make it to my house.

YMMV

I agree... if there are not any services available, you need to do what you need to do.  In his case, I don't think that was an issue.

[2006FJR]

I agree... if there are not any services available, you need to do what you need to do.  In his case, I don't think that was an issue.

I agree too. If someone wanted to fuck with me when my wife is screaming and we are on our way to the hospital they are going to find out real quick that it not a good idea.  

[yellowbird]

The left lane rule is only applicable in rural areas and interstates. To enforce this rule in major urban areas is impossible. So the country bumpkins who come to NYC in the pickup and flashes their high beams to force the car ahead to move to the right can expect some road rage, most cars are going 20 mph over the limit anyway so to be passing in the left lane you have to be going 90-100mph! what kind of rush are you in?
Sure, courtesy on the road is a good thing, but bumping from behind, try that in NYC ,"race car driver". Even the nice cellphone using female librarian will turn into a monster, If you have so much power its not that difficult to accelerate and pass on the right anyway.

[Global Rider]

But, in the defense of the alternative argument, no one SHOULD be going over the speed limit, so then it can be interpreted that so called left lane campers are not in the wrong assuming they are maintaining the speed limit.

And once again, its not up to left lane dreamers to enforce the law.

The fact is, they are ignornat and in most cases do it on purpose. So what is the problem of moving over? These poor souls want to control you because they themselves have no control in their lives, be it at home and at work, so they try to control others...at least that is how a shrink once put it in an article on driving attitudes.

And when you get down to it, they ARE the cause of this so-called road rage.

Although another topic, the usual cruising speed (what most cars do) on the autobahn is 190 km/hr (118 mph), yet they have a better safety record when it comes to fatalities than the US on sheer numbers alone and a far better record when you take the fact that surviving an accident at that speed decreases exponentially.

[tomek]

I can not believe there are people on motorcycle forum who defend slow pokes blocking left lane.
It is pretty simple ,you see a vehicle behind you -move over.Whether you are doing speed limit,20,30 over-does not matter,it is not your fricking job to enforce speed limit laws.

Midwest,MN,WI,IO,IL and IN are absolutely the worst in this regard,just take I90 between Madison WI and Rockford Il,60-70 % of vehicles travel in left lane,passing is done on the right.
West Coast and Western states are much,much better.

[napper]

Wow... they don't have ambulances in your area!  That's really scary!  Oh wait, they do?  I guess the proper thing to do would have been to call an ambulance if you thought your wife was that close to delivering.

I guess you missed the part where he has mad skills and awesome training.  I don't see how you could ever justify "tapping" another vehicle in traffic.  

[chilipeppernorm]

I guess you missed the part where he has mad skills and awesome training.  I don't see how you could ever justify "tapping" another vehicle in traffic.  

Several points here. First, what you and others who take your position are conveniently "missing" is the bitch in the Jag not only wouldn't move but BLOCKED him when he tried to pass. There are in fact emergencies where citizens actually legitimately transport other citizens to the hospital to save life and or limb. He was completely justified in tapping her, and I wouldn't have blamed him if when she blocked him he pitted her into the guardrail.

The far left lane is for passing, period. Lead, follow, or get the fug out of the way! If you're in the left lane doing 135mph and someone rolls up on you doing 140mph, move your ass over. All you dildo's who want to impose your will on the speed others travel should apply to the Highway Patrol of your state, go through the academy and get sworn, then you will be official. That would require effort and commitment you don't have, otherwise you'd have done it, so you sit in the fast lane slow and self righteous.  

[Mrs. DantesDame]

I know that I'm usually the one doing the passing   but if I see someone coming up behind me and there's room to my right to move over, just for the couple of minutes it takes for the guy behind me to go by, I'll do it. A lot of people won't. They think (and I use that word loosely) that they're going to pass the next car up ahead, so why should they move over? It doesn't take much to move out of the way and then resume passing.

Of course this doesn't make a lot of sense when there's a load of traffic and by moving over, you're now stuck in that lane because 50 other people were behind you, all wanting to pass the slowpoke in the right lane like you were going to....

[KenH]

I don't mind slowing down for someone that is passing, but not going as fast as I am. They will be out of the way soon enough. I also don't worry about what people tailgating me while I pass think. If they act stoopid, I just slow down a little to piss them off. I pull over when I can see the car behind me is even with the car I just passed. If that isn't good enough, well, thy can go ahead and run me over.

I have seen a left lane violation enforced. I40 between Jackson and Nashville, westbound. Two semis got side-by-side and stayed there for a good 20 minutes, running 63mph+- swapping the lead on every hill. I was in the left lane about 10 cars back. I heard a horm toot, glanced in the side mirror (my van has no windows behind the front doors) and see the left front fender of a trooper. No lights or anything, but I pulled over anyway. After the trooper passed the car behind him gave me space to move back into the left lane. One by one, we all allowed the trooper to move up, until he was behind the left lane truck and lit him up.

We all backed off while the trucker slowed down and moved off to the right. Everyone moved left to pass (the law in Tennessee) and maybe 3/4 of the cars ahead of me rolled down a window, tooted horns when passing, and gave the trooper a thumb-up.

I stopped a couple exits up for gas, went inside for a snack, and when I came out there was another trooper looking at my bike on the trailer. I asked him to thank the trooper that pulled over the truck and he just laughed. He saidthe trucker was "getting a roadside inspection he would never forget."

[gritsngravy]

Several points here. First, what you and others who take your position are conveniently "missing" is the bitch in the Jag not only wouldn't move but BLOCKED him when he tried to pass. There are in fact emergencies where citizens actually legitimately transport other citizens to the hospital to save life and or limb. He was completely justified in tapping her, and I wouldn't have blamed him if when she blocked him he pitted her into the guardrail.

The far left lane is for passing, period. Lead, follow, or get the fug out of the way! If you're in the left lane doing 135mph and someone rolls up on you doing 140mph, move your ass over. All you dildo's who want to impose your will on the speed others travel should apply to the Highway Patrol of your state, go through the academy and get sworn, then you will be official. That would require effort and commitment you don't have, otherwise you'd have done it, so you sit in the fast lane slow and self righteous.  




Whoa, lotta attitude here.   Gotta be careful who you "tap" on the road, you might get tapped yourself - twice in the chest and once in the head.  

[ctbandit]

I can not believe there are people on motorcycle forum who defend slow pokes blocking left lane.

I really don't think anyone is actually defending people going slow in the left lane, I certainly am not. We are playing devils advocate in the enforcement of the law, trying to see what justifies a ticket and what doesn't. Everyone hates the person going 65 in the left lane, no question, but then you get into the grey areas of speeding which can put people off.

I think I said it already, but I move over no matter what speed I'm going if someone is going faster than me. But many don't and like to justify by saying they are doing the limit or better.

KenH mentioned dealing with irate passers who can't wait two seconds for you to get over. Those are the people I take my time for when getting over. If I see a car coming up to e going fast I usually move over as  son as I can. If it happens that I'm alongside two cars and I can't make it over without the car behind me slowing down and they decide it's the ok to tailgate the shit out of me my level of courtesy falls quickly. No need to be a dick, just wait a second and I'll get over.  

[Global Rider]

He said the trucker was "getting a roadside inspection he would never forget."

I really don't care if a driver's licence is a trucker's or bus driver's livelihood.

Here in town on the parkway, they regularly do 60 mph (35 mph speed limit), yet in the 16 years driving that stretch to and from work, I have yet to see any one of them get ticketed, but I see a lot of cars being ticketed for doing less.

[Snowbird]

And once again, its not up to left lane dreamers to enforce the law.

Nor is it the job of those who would like to go faster.


Do the math, folks. How much time does one really save by going faster? Answer: not much. It is not worth risking lives over being incensed because someone violates what you place as rule of the road #1 (moving right except to pass).

How would you like it if open warfare broke out and self-righteous citizens began to target you for a few of the liberties you take while riding? Wheelies... attack with car. Lane splitting... attack with car. Ten mph over the limit... attack with car.  

Self-righteous psychopathic behavior is a two-edged sword.... and you are going to lose.

[Snowbird]

I totally agree, but I think the idea is still to keep the left lane for passing, not traveling, Although I feel at a certain point the road becomes "saturated" and the left would have to be used as a travel lane.But like I said, this should be when there's lots of traffic in the other two lanes, not when you feel like going 65 in the left and are too lazy to move over to the middle lane with all the other people going 65.

Agreed... except for the emoticon:     Anger on the roadway is NOT appropriate. EVER. (Not that I, too, cannot at times become angry...)

Several points here. First, what you and others who take your position are conveniently "missing" is the bitch in the Jag not only wouldn't move but BLOCKED him when he tried to pass. There are in fact emergencies where citizens actually legitimately transport other citizens to the hospital to save life and or limb. He was completely justified in tapping her, and I wouldn't have blamed him if when she blocked him he pitted her into the guardrail.

The far left lane is for passing, period. Lead, follow, or get the fug out of the way! If you're in the left lane doing 135mph and someone rolls up on you doing 140mph, move your ass over. All you dildo's who want to impose your will on the speed others travel should apply to the Highway Patrol of your state, go through the academy and get sworn, then you will be official. That would require effort and commitment you don't have, otherwise you'd have done it, so you sit in the fast lane slow and self righteous. 

You are completely wrong on the bolded points. So sorry...

I wouldn't have blamed him if when she blocked him he pitted her into the guardrail.

Truly an example of sociopathic thought.

[dark_isz]

Self-righteous psychopathic behavior is a two-edged sword.

And a "holier than thou" attitude is a handgrenade.

Hold on to it too long, and it blows up in your face.

[Snowbird]

And a "holier than thou" attitude is a handgrenade.

Hold on to it too long, and it blows up in your face.

Yup. I misspoke in the post above:

Self-righteous psychopathic sociopathic behavior is a two-edged sword.

[Bigfoot]

And so, you risked killing four people because your wife was having a baby? Real sensible, dude.

I was thinking the same thing.  UFB.

[Bigfoot]

grats gettin there safe and sound. reminds me of a story that happened this past week, lady being taken to the hospital, got pulled over and ticketed because they were breaking the limit. Nice Cop!!!



WTF!!??

No, it was for driving down the break down lane.  We're not allowed to give escorts when we stop people going to the hospital.  We tell them you'll sit here and we'll have rescue here in a minute.  I've let a few go that we're already close to a hospital but otherwise they have to wait.  They have no right to kill someone, or themselves, for something people have been doing since the dawn in man. Having babies.

[Bigfoot]

Maybe your ambulance squad is next to your house, but the last time I needed to take my wife tot he hospital, I didn't want to wait 20-30 minutes for the ambulance to arrive. Some days are quicker, but in my area, it's a volunteer squad, and you have to wait for the EMT's (who are great, and I appreciate their service), to drive tot he Ambulance Squad House, and roll.

Walker may be in the same situation. I can get top to the local hospital faster than the ambulance can make it to my house.

YMMV

That's fine but no need to drive like an idiot placing everyone in jeopardy.

[2RR2NV]

Maybe your ambulance squad is next to your house, but the last time I needed to take my wife tot he hospital, I didn't want to wait 20-30 minutes for the ambulance to arrive. Some days are quicker, but in my area, it's a volunteer squad, and you have to wait for the EMT's (who are great, and I appreciate their service), to drive tot he Ambulance Squad House, and roll.

Walker may be in the same situation. I can get top to the local hospital faster than the ambulance can make it to my house.

YMMV

it's even worse out here on base.  get this....since we no longer have a real hospital, if you need to get downtown, don't bet on it being fast. first off, the base ambulance comes on over to pick you up and take you to the front gate. then you wait for the real hospital ambulance to come to the gate (from downtown) to swap vehicles. then you get to ride the 15 or so mins down to the hospital. personally, i could get there faster and i would still be obeying the speed limit. it sux. lucky for me, my wife has to have C-sections, so we just drive on down, wait for the appointed time and there we go... NEW BABY!!! yeehaw!!

[Global Rider]

Nor is it the job of those who would like to go faster.

I'm not the one trying to regulate traffic, but left lane dreamers are.

So by that, I take it you won' get upset if I get ahead of you and hold you back.

Do the math, folks. How much time does one really save by going faster? Answer: not much.

Its not a matter of going faster; it a matter of driving a speed I'm comfortable with and in the process, I don't hold those up that want to go faster...but then, I'm not a control freak.

I'll add that if a left lane dreamer accelerates while I'm trying to pass them on the right in an effort to prevent me from passing, then they are treading on very dangerous ground for they will be cut off or rammed.

[2RR2NV]

I'm not the one trying to regulate traffic, but left lane dreamers are.

So by that, I take it you won' get upset if I get ahead of you and hold you back.




Its not a matter of going faster; it a matter of driving a speed I'm comfortable with and in the process, I don't hold those up that want to go faster...but then, I'm not a control freak.

I'll add that if a left lane dreamer accelerates while I'm trying to pass them on the right in an effort to prevent me from passing, then they are treading on very dangerous ground for they will be cut off or rammed.

wow, i would pay money to see the outcome of you on your bike against a vehicle.  

[Bigfoot]

I'm not the one trying to regulate traffic, but left lane dreamers are.

So by that, I take it you won' get upset if I get ahead of you and hold you back.




Its not a matter of going faster; it a matter of driving a speed I'm comfortable with and in the process, I don't hold those up that want to go faster...but then, I'm not a control freak.

I'll add that if a left lane dreamer accelerates while I'm trying to pass them on the right in an effort to prevent me from passing, then they are treading on very dangerous ground for they will be cut off or rammed.

Wow.  Aren't you special.  

[Walker]

Wow... they don't have ambulances in your area!  That's really scary!  Oh wait, they do?  I guess the proper thing to do would have been to call an ambulance if you thought your wife was that close to delivering.

Unincorporated Pierce County.  Typical ambulance response time - 20 minutes to get to the scene.  Drive to the hospital in moderate traffic - 10 minutes.  I wasn't waiting.

[Hotbrakes]

Just reading this thread was hard and caused my blood to boil reading the title.

There have been good points brought up from both sides (though we all seem to be on the RIGHT side).  LEO's know they can't enforce all the laws and the idea behind the keep right law is to actually make the roads SAFER.  Sure there will always be speeders and left lane campers, but if the speeders aren't shooting across 5 lanes of traffic to make the next pass everyone is safer.

As a first responder to I95, I can tell you first hand that speeding is not the cause, just a minor factor in most cases.  Usually its getting "pushed" off by someone changing lanes to get around someone else that sends everyone spinning out of control.  

Traffic jams are also caused by the left lane campers.  More and more cars pile up behind them, a few people switch lanes to get by, one person taps their brakes after one of these lane changes, and all 3 lanes of traffic behind the tapper slam on the brakes, reducing traffic to a crawl, with major and minor accidents occuring in their wake.

Another aspect that boils my blood on this topic is when I am transporting a patient to the hospital which involves a 10 mile trip down I95.  Instead of a nice smooth ride with minimal siren and decent pace we have to slow down and wait for these morons to move over, blare the siren to hopefully get them to see us (which doesn't work cause they can't hear it) and then worry about the tail gaters trying to pass us cause we can't go fast enough.  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I hate people!

Why do we keep dumping money into public safety when it should be going to PUBLIC EDUCATION!

[ctbandit]

Why do we keep dumping money into public safety when it should be going to PUBLIC EDUCATION!

so sad but true.

[Scratch33]

But, in the defense of the alternative argument, no one SHOULD be going over the speed limit, so then it can be interpreted that so called left lane campers are not in the wrong assuming they are maintaining the speed limit.

Man!  That takes me back a couple decades, to the "Nestoring" flap in the DC area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nestor

I also remember years ago when some official got a wild hair and ordered the Maryland State Police to run a rolling 55-mph roadblock, on Route 50 inbound into DC, on a Monday morning.   Highly publicized; news helicopters flying over the backup -- only happened one time.

[nomagnashn]

Man!  That takes me back a couple decades, to the "Nestoring" flap in the DC area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nestor

I also remember years ago when some official got a wild hair and ordered the Maryland State Police to run a rolling 55-mph roadblock, on Route 50 inbound into DC, on a Monday morning.   Highly publicized; news helicopters flying over the backup -- only happened one time.

Funny story here.

A few years ago, 2 local LEOs were driving on I-80 between Lincoln and Omaha (back when it was only 2 lanes all the way).  They were running a rolling blockade doing somewhere around the speed limit.  A state trooper pulled both over and supposedly gave them both tickets for obstructing traffic.

I heard this story 2nd, 3rd or maybe even 4th or 5th hand.  Hell, it may not even be true.  I just thought it was funny.

[ctbandit]

only happened one time.

Because they realized that it was the dumbest thing they had ever done?

Other people have brought it up in this thread and others, but the key to traffic safety and less fatalities isn't "lowering speed limits" or country wide limits, its educated drivers. I don't mean go to college, i mean learn to drive.

[Scratch33]

Because they realized that it was the dumbest thing they had ever done?

That, and they made a couple other elected officials (and lobbyists) late for work.

[jfurf]

Other people have brought it up in this thread and others, but the key to traffic safety and less fatalities isn't "lowering speed limits" or country wide limits, its educated drivers. I don't mean go to college, i mean learn to drive.

So you're saying people should actually receive some kind of training or education or even be re-tested past the age of 16 or 17? Crazy talk!  

BTW, here's a great blog by the author of the the book "Traffic."

http://www.howwedrive.com/

He talks about how we think of driving as something you either can do or can't, not as a series of skills that require practice and judgment and constant attention. Meanwhile the act of driving is probably one of the most complex processes we ever do. Modern vehicles and roadways have evolved beyond the human capacity to judge so many factors at once, so there's a huge gap in our ability to avoid crashes when thrown into a complex social environment like a modern superhighway.

[ctbandit]

http://www.howwedrive.com/

Great link, here's a quote I found interesting..

And although being in a heavy SUV might make the driver feel safer, the reality is the opposite. The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety continues to find that you are more likely to die in an SUV than in a regular car. In its most recent study, “very large” SUVs had a higher occupant death rate than midsized cars — that is, trading in your large SUV for a regular-size car makes you less likely to die. The IIHS also finds that econobox-sized cars are death traps in crashes, so don’t switch to a tiny car to save fuel, switch to a midsized vehicle with a middling-horsepower engine

[stefrrr]

Really good advice! Anyone want to buy a VW golf?
Timing belt is good.

[FJR1300]

Really good advice! Anyone want to buy a VW golf?
Timing belt is good.

Are you SURE the timing belt is good?  How do you know it's good?  Did you ask it how it was doing?

[Bounce]

Timely thread. There's a line to be drawn here and I haven't seen a post yet mention it. What if you are in the left lane passing people but you're not passing people at the rate that those who are behind you want you to pass? Does this still count as blocking the left lane?

if it impedes traffic behind you? yes. what about those 18 wheelers that pass each other with a 1 mph speed differential? it falls within your example of "passing" but is still blocking other traffic.

[Bounce]

The left lane rule is only applicable in rural areas and interstates. To enforce this rule in major urban areas is impossible. So the country bumpkins who come to NYC in the pickup and flashes their high beams to force the car ahead to move to the right can expect some road rage, most cars are going 20 mph over the limit anyway so to be passing in the left lane you have to be going 90-100mph! what kind of rush are you in?

clearly constrained to the NE coridor, eh? if you've ever survived time in the Hotlanta Speedway (I285) then you'd understand where your example falls apart.

lane 1 (far right): enter/exit and up to 65mph
lane 2 (1 lane left): 65 - 75 mph
lane 3 (1 lane farther left): 75 - 90 mph
lane 4 ("the wall lane"): 90+

and all of the above is often with on 6" of clearance between the front bumper of one car and the rear bumper of the one in front.

if you're going 75 in the wall lane, expect to be pushed from behind (with actual bumper contact). screw that the posted limit is 55. but everyone is making "driving job #1" without reading, texting, eating, etc.

[2RR2NV]

Really good advice! Anyone want to buy a VW golf?
Timing belt is good.

did you actually check the timing belt?  i hear those cause all kinds of problems on them there V-dubs.  

[KenH]

Someone mentioned windshield strips printed backwards to remind people ahead to move over. How about this:



I can get these made if anyone wants one.

[bpg]

Well, re: left lane bandits: we can wring our hands and hope the gub-ment swoops in to save us, or take action...  

Get a headlight modulator - I call mine the "traffic evaporator" ..  Get RIGHT behind someone's driver's side mirror and 99% of the time they will pull right over.  Probably think I'm A) the po-po, or B) about crazy.

Either's fine by me, so long as I get results..

[lionlady]

Usually getting right behind someone in their driver's side mirror will "encourage" them to move right. I once had a totally unexpected result in my car: Its 3:30 am. Little traffic on the road, other than trucks. Usually the left laners will move right when I get behind them. If not, a highbeam flash will get them to.

This guy didn't move. And when I flashed my highbeams, the driver actually put on their LEFT TURN SIGNAL   I thought that must have been a mistake... but nope. Highbeams again got the same response.

I moved right and passed, shaking my head.

P

[LicketySplat]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned differential speed limits. Is Ohio the only state that still has them? (don't think so)

Typical interstate traffic is trucks in the right lane going 63 and dweebs in the left lane going 65 to pass the trucks. Backs up for miles.

Florida tried to enact a law banning left lane banditry a year or two ago, but the bill was defeated in the legislature. Of course in Florida, a large number of the LLBs are Harley riders.  

[2RR2NV]

Florida tried to enact a law banning left lane banditry a year or two ago, but the bill was defeated in the legislature. Of course in Florida, a large number of the LLBs are Harley riders.  

ahh that explains a lot. during the Rally, see it all the time. oh wait...it's an HD rally. nvm

[vguy]

Florida tried to enact a law banning left lane banditry a year or two ago, but the bill was defeated in the legislature. Of course in Florida, a large number of the LLBs are Harley riders.  

Florida usually tries to protect its tourism trade. Half the cars on the freeways around those spots (I-4 especially) seem to be lost and are not lane conscience.

[mugwump58]

I typically require therapy after traversing Ohio.

[02Tac]

 I find it very funny that those of you inclined to haul ass down a public road blame those of us inclined to obey the speed limits.  I am running up a big giant BS flag on this one.  You state the vehicle driving at the speed limit causes the traffic problem.  Not so.  You, the yahoo that must go fast, are cuasing the problems.  Most, if not all traffic problems are cause by those of you that refuse to follow the establshed rules of the road, be it the speed limit or something else.  Now, I will grant you that simple speedo error will cause a speed difference in just about any two vehicles, but there is a difference between speedo error and you wanting to fly down the highway at 90mph.  

 I do not "camp" in the left lane, but if  I am in the left lane passing someone going slower then me and you come flying up behind me...  unless you are an emergency vehicle you are going to wait until I pass the slower vehicle.  I AM NOT going to speed up just because you feel the need to act the fool.  

 I lump you in with same group of people that when they see a lane closed sign, instead of taking the opportunity to merge as soon as possible, have to rush down the closing lane and then screw up everthing by trying to force their way in at the last moment.

[Hickey]

   I AM NOT going to speed up just because you feel the need to act the fool.  

 I lump you in with same group of people that when they see a lane closed sign, instead of taking the opportunity to merge as soon as possible, have to rush down the closing lane and then screw up everthing by trying to force their way in at the last moment.

Why is it that someone who is driving faster is acting like a fool?  Are you a fool compared to anyone who drives slower than you?  Or are the fools only those who want to drive faster than you?

How does it hurt to finish a pass quickly, move back into the non-passing-lane, and let the faster traffic past?  Isn't that a simple courtesy that requires almost no additional effort to provide?

[Snowbird]

Why is it that someone who is driving faster is acting like a fool?  Are you a fool compared to anyone who drives slower than you?  Or are the fools only those who want to drive faster than you?

How does it hurt to finish a pass quickly, move back into the non-passing-lane, and let the faster traffic past?  Isn't that a simple courtesy that requires almost no additional effort to provide?

I think he clearly addressed the bolded in his post.

As for the rest of your questions, well, he addressed that as well:

I do not "camp" in the left lane, but if  I am in the left lane passing someone going slower then me and you come flying up behind me...  unless you are an emergency vehicle you are going to wait until I pass the slower vehicle.  I AM NOT going to speed up just because you feel the need to act the fool.  

[FJR1300]

Checkmate!

[FJR1300]

Maybe this driver should have moved over...


Emergency Landing - The most amazing home videos are here

[2RR2NV]

How does it hurt to finish a pass quickly, move back into the non-passing-lane, and let the faster traffic past?  Isn't that a simple courtesy that requires almost no additional effort to provide?

i for one, won't speed up, for the fact that with my luck, there will be a smokey sitting there with his nose to the wind and because i'm speeding up to get around quickly to let you pass, i'll be the one getting pulled over. naw....you can wait, ride my bumper, and maybe the bear will feel the need to pull YOU over for tailgating.

I've rode in a friend's car that did the hauling butt thing up behind someone, got pissed cause they were doing 5 over (not 20-30 over) and rode too close (at least that's how i felt when i mentioned it), and sure enough, smokey pulled us over and gave him a ticket for tailgating. guess we didn't need to go so fast after all.

[02Tac]

Why is it that someone who is driving faster is acting like a fool?  Are you a fool compared to anyone who drives slower than you?  Or are the fools only those who want to drive faster than you?

Main Entry: fool·ish  
Pronunciation: \ˈfü-lish\
Function: adjective
Date: 13th century
1: lacking in sense, judgment, or discretion


 Is it not foolish to be the one who is not only speeding, but is also following way to close to the person who is actually following the rules of the road?  If you belive it is not foolish then, in my opinion, you are in the group of childish folks who are simply upset because they did not get to do what they wanted to whether it the right thing to do or not.  I have said it before and will say it again.  If you want to haul ass down the road, so be it, but DO NOT piss whine and moan when you get a ticket or have to slow down for a minute or two just because myself and others choose not to play your silly little game.  Once I can safely move back to the right lane I will, but as I stated before I will not speed up just because YOU want to go faster than me.  If we are on a two lane road, you can either wait until a passing zone or you can be a true asshat and pass in a no passing zone.

 Have a nice day and if I see you pulled over by Smokie, I will wave, toot my horn and then go home and make a donation to the local LEO!  If they arrest you I might even buy a ticket to the LEO ball.


 

[Hotbrakes]

buy a ticket to the LEO ball.

LEO's don't have balls.

 

02Tac- you have identified the other "dangerous" group that causes the exothermic reaction in traffic when mixed with left lane campers and under the limit "safe" drivers (who also ALWAYS roll through stop signs for some reason).  If everyone went the speed limit or less than 15 over (so the LEO's have someone to get) traffic wouldn't slinky and back up and asshats wouldn't be swerving in and out of traffic pitting people off the road.  

Do you live in Kansas?  They have a zero tolerance for speeders.  That is a very long state to drive across.  

[ianbh]

Main Entry: fool·ish  
Pronunciation: \ˈfü-lish\
Function: adjective
Date: 13th century
1: lacking in sense, judgment, or discretion
 Is it not foolish to be the one who is not only speeding, but is also following way to close to the person who is actually following the rules of the road?  If you belive it is not foolish then, in my opinion, you are in the group of childish folks who are simply upset because they did not get to do what they wanted to whether it the right thing to do or not.  I have said it before and will say it again.  If you want to haul ass down the road, so be it, but DO NOT piss whine and moan when you get a ticket or have to slow down for a minute or two just because myself and others choose not to play your silly little game.  Once I can safely move back to the right lane I will, but as I stated before I will not speed up just because YOU want to go faster than me.  If we are on a two lane road, you can either wait until a passing zone or you can be a true asshat and pass in a no passing zone.
 Have a nice day and if I see you pulled over by Smokie, I will wave, toot my horn and then go home and make a donation to the local LEO!  If they arrest you I might even buy a ticket to the LEO ball.

Is personal perfection a heavy burden?  Ian, Iowa

[02Tac]

Main Entry: fool·ish  
Pronunciation: \ˈfü-lish\
Function: adjective
Date: 13th century
1: lacking in sense, judgment, or discretion


Is personal perfection a heavy burden?  Ian, Iowa

   Good one.  Never thought of myself as perfect, but thanks.

[Bounce]

i know one personal friend whose position is, essentially, the same. "i'll camp in the left lane at the posted limit all day long and you can fap in the wind."  this is the same guy that prides himself on his "southern gentility" and courtesy in a world that has become "rude and vulgar". he's totally clueless about his discourtesy and covers himself in the ashes of his martyrdom. i suspect he knows exactly what he's doing and either chooses to convince himself otherwise or just outwardly proclaims it in the face of the facts.

[Flyer]

Personal observation concludes that 'Mericans have THE most dismal lane discipline of all, and Floridians are the worst.
Were it my choice, I'd post highway signs here that said:
Left-lane drivers are Ass Bandits and their biotches.
OR
Stay right or lose your Medicaid.

[DosEquis00]

Personal observation concludes that 'Mericans have THE most dismal lane discipline of all, and Floridians are the worst.

I would have to argue it is worse in the North East as people have become clueless. Over the last few years I have spent more time passing vehicles in the right lane.

[FJR1300]

I would have to argue it is worse in the North East as people have become clueless. Over the last few years I have spent more time passing vehicles in the right lane.

You've never been to Floriduh, have you?

[Snowbird]

Main Entry: fool·ish  
Pronunciation: \ˈfü-lish\
Function: adjective
Date: 13th century
1: lacking in sense, judgment, or discretion
 Is it not foolish to be the one who is not only speeding, but is also following way to close to the person who is actually following the rules of the road?  If you belive it is not foolish then, in my opinion, you are in the group of childish folks who are simply upset because they did not get to do what they wanted to whether it the right thing to do or not.  I have said it before and will say it again.  If you want to haul ass down the road, so be it, but DO NOT piss whine and moan when you get a ticket or have to slow down for a minute or two just because myself and others choose not to play your silly little game.  Once I can safely move back to the right lane I will, but as I stated before I will not speed up just because YOU want to go faster than me.  If we are on a two lane road, you can either wait until a passing zone or you can be a true asshat and pass in a no passing zone.
 Have a nice day and if I see you pulled over by Smokie, I will wave, toot my horn and then go home and make a donation to the local LEO!  If they arrest you I might even buy a ticket to the LEO ball.

Is personal perfection a heavy burden?  Ian, Iowa

You, Ian, won't be perfect until you learn to use the quote feature.  

[Snowbird]

You've never been to Floriduh, have you?

I drive in the NE and in Florida (there is no "duh" in Florida) and have little or no problems. I think most of the guys and gals here who are having problems were probably colicky even as babies.  

[TuffguyF4i]

It does drive me nuts when you are clearly passing someone, then someone else comes rocketing up behind you and tailgates the hell out of you for really no reason.  Many even do this when there is no way in hell you can even get over!  They just drive aggressively because they know no other way.

I could see them getting ticked off if you where not making the pass, but not if you really are in the process of getting out of the passing lane.

[02Tac]

It does drive me nuts when you are clearly passing someone, then someone else comes rocketing up behind you and tailgates the hell out of you for really no reason.  Many even do this when there is no way in hell you can even get over!  They just drive aggressively because they know no other way.

I could see them getting ticked off if you where not making the pass, but not if you really are in the process of getting out of the passing lane.

Dude, the a$$hats here in De get pissed no matter if you are passing or not.  They view it as their God given right to drive like idiots and if they have to slow down the slightest bit or change lanes it is views as a personnal insult.  That is why, when in my truck, if some bonehead comes flying up behind me when I am passing another car, I tap the brakes and if that does not work I actually slow down until the person backs off.  I will follow that statement up wit this - Drive how you want, but DO NOT expect me to move over or speed up just because you must drive like and a$$hat.  You are the one driving like a fool, not me. You will just have to wait until I finish the pass and then you can proceede in merry a##hat fashion.

[2RR2NV]

Dude, the a$$hats here in De get pissed no matter if you are passing or not.  They view it as their God given right to drive like idiots and if they have to slow down the slightest bit or change lanes it is views as a personnal insult.  That is why, when in my truck, if some bonehead comes flying up behind me when I am passing another car, I tap the brakes and if that does not work I actually slow down until the person backs off.  I will follow that statement up wit this - Drive how you want, but DO NOT expect me to move over or speed up just because you must drive like and a$$hat.  You are the one driving like a fool, not me. You will just have to wait until I finish the pass and then you can proceede in merry a##hat fashion.

makes me wish i still had my ole Power Wagon. one thing i noticed, people didn't come flying up on me when i was driving it. i think they were worried something might fall off and mess em up. fine by me. but i also miss my Lil Red Express. if someone was tailgating too close for my taste, i'd just hammer it for a bit to get the Secondaries to open and dump a buttload of fuel. next thing ya know, big black cloud behind me and soon ...  no vehicle either. had lady in her nice white caddy do that hauling butt/tailgating crap while i was towing. irked me a bit, so i stomped on it. she backed way off after getting her vehicle dirty. LOL.

[FJR1300]

there is no "duh" in Florida

Are you sure?  I mean, you are from Floriduh... correct?

 

[02Tac]

makes me wish i still had my ole Power Wagon. one thing i noticed, people didn't come flying up on me when i was driving it. i think they were worried something might fall off and mess em up. fine by me. but i also miss my Lil Red Express. if someone was tailgating too close for my taste, i'd just hammer it for a bit to get the Secondaries to open and dump a buttload of fuel. next thing ya know, big black cloud behind me and soon ...  no vehicle either. had lady in her nice white caddy do that hauling butt/tailgating crap while i was towing. irked me a bit, so i stomped on it. she backed way off after getting her vehicle dirty. LOL.

 Side note - Noticed a Lil Red Express set back off a driveway yesterday when I was out for a ride.  If I can remember where it was I might go back and see if it is available.  

[2RR2NV]

love the truck for what it was, but not much else. i think i put maybe 2000 miles on it in the 5 years i owned it. getting 10mpg doing 55 was just not a happy thing. then god help me hammering it.... 4-6mpg!  i would have loved to put a newer Hemi in it and then have some fun. oh well, gotta love the Big "D".  

[Snowbird]

Are you sure?  I mean, you are from Floriduh... correct?

 

 

No, but I have a place there... will be going down in about a week for a few weeks. Later, my neighbors here in NY will rent it from me.

[Snowbird]

It does drive me nuts when you are clearly passing someone, then someone else comes rocketing up behind you and tailgates the hell out of you for really no reason.  Many even do this when there is no way in hell you can even get over!  They just drive aggressively because they know no other way.

I could see them getting ticked off if you where not making the pass, but not if you really are in the process of getting out of the passing lane.

I get people tailgating me here on two-lane roads when I'm following-- at a respectful distance back-- another car going slower than even I'd like to go. There's no safe to pass when in a four-wheeled vehicle driving on winter-snow-and-ice roads. In the morning, in the dark, cars doing that straddling the center line so their headlights are in my mirror    what in hell do they think I'm going to do!!??

Point being, asshat drivers are everywhere.

Oh, and for the record, I call bullshit on claims of nerfing other drivers.    (Not referring to you.)

[ianbh]

You, Ian, won't be perfect until you learn to use the quote feature.

Hey thanks!  Oops I'm still not perfect.  Maybe I will be if I learn to insert the smileys.  Ian, Iowa

[FJR1300]

oh well, gotta love the Big "D".  

I hate Dallas... terrible drivers.

 

[FJR1300]

Later, my neighbors here in NY will rent it from me.

You rent out your place in Florida?  Cool... I say let's have a mid-winter ST.N get together at your place!

[Snowbird]

You rent out your place in Florida?  Cool... I say let's have a mid-winter ST.N get together at your place!

 

[FJR1300]

 

So when do you want us to start showing up?  I've got three weeks vacation starting at the first of the year!

Oops... almost got off-topic...

Why doesn't Florida crack down on the great northern blue hairs that drive in the left lane?

 

[Mrs. DantesDame]

You rent out your place in Florida?  Cool... I say let's have a mid-winter ST.N get together at your place!

Yeah, but that means having to go to Floriduh  

[FJR1300]

Yeah, but that means having to go to Floriduh  

I would rather go to Floriduh than Kalifornia.

 

[Mrs. DantesDame]

I would rather go to Floriduh than Kalifornia.

 

yeah, but at least we can lane split and filter. <---- topical subject, as they're all easy to pass if you're on a bike) And there are mountains here, too  


(seriously, my parents have a condo on Marco Island. I spent my youthful summers in Florida, probably the reason I hate it so much today)

[Elseanno]

I would rather go to Floriduh than Kalifornia.

 

Good!

The riding is much better there than here anyway. Stay away.

The Bottom line for me is this:

If you're a cop, you can go ahead and enforce the speed limit by camping in the left lane or doing whatever the hell you do to enforce the it so long as it's within the law...

If you aren't a cop, which is most of the people camping in the left lane remember; two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do! Ok!  Seriously, if you're not a cop don't camp in the left lane. If some asshole is speeding like a looney, let 'em. It's not your fight. If you camp out and some one get's pissed and road rages on you I look forward to reading about the ass kicking you got.   Don't be an asshole, move over.


Elseanno

[Paul Barnard]

 
Should the guy going 75 in a 50 get a ticket?  Well sure, i'd like to see him get a ticket too.  But the reality of it is that a cop isn't going to touch him since he was already speeding.  

I can see that in court....

Cop: you where impeding traffic
Left lang hanger:  I was going 20+ over the speed limit!

Case closed.

Not case closed at all.

 In that case the officer should write two tickets one for speeding and one for improper lane usage.  If the judge questions this, the officer simply needs to respond that the other drivers were only speeding while the accused was speeding and improperly using the left lane.  The officer can explain that it makes more sense to cite someone with multiple infractions rather than a singular infraction.  Hard to fault that logic.

[FJR1300]

Hard to fault that logic.

Paul Barnard is BANNED because you cannot use logic when posting in this thread or any other thread related to the enforcement of laws!

[vguy]

Paul Barnard is BANNED because you cannot use logic when posting in this thread or any other thread related to the enforcement of laws!

He's disrupting all of us know-it-all speculators.

[LicketySplat]

You know what's wrong with this thread?

It's a car thread.  

What are sport-tourers doing on the freakin' freeway anyway? In such heavy traffic that they can't just goose the throttle, half-lane-split and get around the left lane campers?

Car thread. Bah. Move it to off topic.

[02Tac]

You know what's wrong with this thread?

It's a car thread.  

What are sport-tourers doing on the freakin' freeway anyway? In such heavy traffic that they can't just goose the throttle, half-lane-split and get around the left lane campers?

Car thread. Bah. Move it to off topic.

 Sadly, the highway is a necessary evil to get where we want to be.  Hav eyou ever tried to get somewhere via the side roads in DE?

[Snowbird]

 Sadly, the highway is a necessary evil to get where we want to be.  Hav eyou ever tried to get somewhere via the side roads in DE?

that's a local issue. I agree with LicketySplat.

[TuffguyF4i]

Not case closed at all.

 In that case the officer should write two tickets one for speeding and one for improper lane usage.  If the judge questions this, the officer simply needs to respond that the other drivers were only speeding while the accused was speeding and improperly using the left lane.  The officer can explain that it makes more sense to cite someone with multiple infractions rather than a singular infraction.  Hard to fault that logic.

Since when do they use logic in court?  Ever been to traffic court?