A poor man's FJR 1300

[Bamaboy]

I had thought about getting a used FJR 1300 until I saw what they were going for.  Maybe I could afford a slightly wrecked one.  

Wouldn't the ZZR 1200 and the CBR1100XX be just like an FJR if they had raised bars and bags?  I mean really besides being newer what does the FJR have over the ZZR and the Black Bird?

Just thinking out loud and would appreciate any thinking out loud responses.  

[Ack535]

I really like my 2004 ZR1200 and the CBR1100XX is no slouch either!

Just depends on what you want to do. The ZZR12's have really come down in price. I am sure you can find a nice one on craigslist or at zzrbikes.com

Pete

[Bamaboy]

I really like my 2004 ZR1200 and the CBR1100XX is no slouch either!

Just depends on what you want to do. The ZZR12's have really come down in price. I am sure you can find a nice one on craigslist or at zzrbikes.com

Pete

hey,  I noticed that you also have a Connie.  How does you ZZR hold up in the comfort department on a long ride when comparing it to your Connie?

[2WheelTiger]

One thing those bikes have that the FJR doesn't: a chain.

Some things the FJR has that those bikes don't: A full fairing.  High/wide bars.  Side bags.  Top cases.  

There's more to the value of an FJR than just the price.  If I was looking for a cheap tourer, I'd look at an older C10 or Suzy Bandit 1200.  (or an Old Wing)

[Bamaboy]

One thing those bikes have that the FJR doesn't: a chain.

Some things the FJR has that those bikes don't: A full fairing.  High/wide bars.  Side bags.  Top cases.  

There's more to the value of an FJR than just the price.  If I was looking for a cheap tourer, I'd look at an older C10 or Suzy Bandit 1200.  (or an Old Wing)

Yea, I might end up with one of those or an ST1100.  Old Wing?  No way!  

[Zerosum]

I don't know about the 1100, but the 1300 is a TANK.    I sat on one at a cycle show once... yikes.  I'm sure it feels lighter when it's underway, but still...

You might also want to consider the 1st Generation Yamaha FZ-1.  It was made between '01 and '05, so I'm sure there are nicely depreciated ones out there.  I have heard that the wind-protection isn't great on it, though.

[Cricket1]

Some things the FJR has that those bikes don't: A full fairing. 

HUH??? A ZZR or XX don't have a full fairing??

I had thought about getting a used FJR 1300 until I saw what they were going for.  Maybe I could afford a slightly wrecked one.   

Wouldn't the ZZR 1200 and the CBR1100XX be just like an FJR if they had raised bars and bags?  I mean really besides being newer what does the FJR have over the ZZR and the Black Bird?

Just thinking out loud and would appreciate any thinking out loud responses.   

So once you put the higher bars and hard bags on a ZZR or XX, about the only thing it doesn't have that the FJR does is a driveshaft, and about 80 lbs. (and a pipe and slippers! )

[UHOH]

I had a Bandit 1200/s before the FJR and felt they were pretty close
in acceleration, braking, and good weather comfort.

the type of bike you're looking at, and those posted above,
should be a good less expensive S/T alternative.  I like the FJR, tho...

[SilverHound]

Don't forget the FJR has the all-important electrically adjustable windshield too. Plus the Gen II FJRs have the adjustable seat that is either high or NBA player high. That said, I had a Blackbird before the FJR and had it set up pretty nicely for touring. The insurance on the FJR is a lot less than it was on the Birdy.   Otherwise the Bird is a great platform for sport touring IMO.

[Jeremy Z]

Earlier FJRs are selling for about $6k. That doesn't seem like too much for a bike that cost $14k new.

Don't settle. Save up or finance and get an FJR, ST1300, ST1100, or similar. Shaft drive, hard luggage, full fairing, ABS... these are all good things for STs.

If you really are a beginner, these bikes are on the heavy side, and require care & skill & low speeds.

[2WheelTiger]

HUH??? A ZZR or XX don't have a full fairing??

Even if you're only worried about the semantics, you can't tell me a XX has the coverage and rain protection of an FJR (especially a 2G).  Full fairing means more than "lowers" in this context.

[Cricket1]

Even if you're only worried about the semantics, you can't tell me a XX has the coverage and rain protection of an FJR (especially a 2G).  Full fairing means more than "lowers" in this context.

Maybe semantics, but your original post seemed to indicate the ZZR or XX have a half fairing, similar to an FZ1 or Bandit 1200.  While the winshield and fairing on the FJR are larger than ZZ or XX, to say they don't have a full fairing is flat out untrue.

[mygala]

I think of a "full" fairing as something that protects me from the wind, or at least most of me, ...not just the gas tank.  

[Cricket1]

So, you've never ridden a ZZR, Sprint ST or XX either??

On these bikes, and most other lighter weight SPORT-touring bikes with the stock windshield, if you are 6 ft tall or less, the only area of your body to get any wind is your head. The advantage is your head is in clean/clear air with no buffeting. YMMV
With the touring screens on these bikes, the wind will go over your head. Sure sounds like a full coverage fairing to me.

Ok, so maybe the FJR fairing throws the air 3 feet over your head, and 4 feet wider than your body. Great, and bfd.  But in the summer when it is 90 degrees, you're gonna cook!

[tyler73]

I've ridden all 3...FJR, ZZR, CBRXX + the first gen Connie.

For the budget FJR there's only the Connie (They're everywhere since it was made the same for 20 years). You WILL lose a lot of the enhancements that make the FJR what it is. Electric windshield, more powerful engine, fuel injection, blinding eye of god lighting, and the modern look. You WONT lose the all day comfort, the standard hard luggage, shaft drive, great wind/weather protection.

The ZZR12 and CBRxx are more of a comparison to a budget Hayabusa than a FJR. If that's your cup of tea, go for it. I LOVED my Busa until I separated my shoulder and couldnt spend any real time on it.

[2WheelTiger]

So, you've never ridden a ZZR, Sprint ST or XX either??

On these bikes, and most other lighter weight SPORT-touring bikes with the stock windshield, if you are 6 ft tall or less, the only area of your body to get any wind is your head. The advantage is your head is in clean/clear air with no buffeting. YMMV
With the touring screens on these bikes, the wind will go over your head. Sure sounds like a full coverage fairing to me.

Ok, so maybe the FJR fairing throws the air 3 feet over your head, and 4 feet wider than your body. Great, and bfd.  But in the summer when it is 90 degrees, you're gonna cook!

That's very interesting commentary from a guy who has no idea what I've ridden, what I own now, have owned in the past, nor how many miles / years I have in the saddle.  DO NOT presuppose.

[ShawnKing]

Ok, so maybe the FJR fairing throws the air 3 feet over your head, and 4 feet wider than your body. Great, and bfd.

All true of the FJR - *if* you are 6" tall.

But in the summer when it is 90 degrees, you're gonna cook!

I had no problems with being "cooked" this past summer on my FJR with the stock fairing.

[mygala]

So, you've never ridden a ZZR, Sprint ST or XX either??

On these bikes, and most other lighter weight SPORT-touring bikes with the stock windshield, if you are 6 ft tall or less, the only area of your body to get any wind is your head. The advantage is your head is in clean/clear air with no buffeting. YMMV
With the touring screens on these bikes, the wind will go over your head. Sure sounds like a full coverage fairing to me.

Ok, so maybe the FJR fairing throws the air 3 feet over your head, and 4 feet wider than your body. Great, and bfd.  But in the summer when it is 90 degrees, you're gonna cook!

Actually, I HAVE ridden those bikes,

...maybe you should ride an fjr so you could make an honest comparison. The still air bubble is not near that big, nor do I "cook" in the summer at 90+.

[Cricket1]

That's very interesting commentary from a guy who has no idea what I've ridden, what I own now, have owned in the past, nor how many miles / years I have in the saddle.  DO NOT presuppose.

Ok, so you have ridden a Sprint ST, XX and ZZR 1200. And you still think they don't have full fairings???

I guess the question is, what do you define as a full fairing?

Don't misunderstand, the FJR has a larger fairing & stock windshield than these, and for long distances and two up, makes a better bike.

I just am confused of your definition of a full fairing. Because someone who was unfamiliar with these bikes might think you were implying they had a half/ bikini type of fairing like an FZ1 or Bandit 1200S.

[Cricket1]

Actually, I HAVE ridden those bikes,

...maybe you should ride an fjr so you could make an honest comparison. The still air bubble is not near that big, nor do I "cook" in the summer at 90+.

I was kidding about the still air bubble of the FJR to make a point. ALL of these bikes have full fairings, some are larger than others. If you are 6'4", the FJR will make the most sense. If you are 5'8", the XX, Sprint or ZZR will give you just as much wind protection, in a lighter, more flickable bike.

[Nodaclu]

It would appear that you still want to stay above 1000cc's, but if you could consider something with a little less displacement, I have to throw in a vote for the GSX650F. Unless you have a need to get to 120+ in a hurry (the 650F will get there too - just takes a bit longer), then by adding bags, you have a mini-FJR at about half the price.

I believe Hickey has stated that the bike has the wattage capacity to run the normal electrics without issue as well. Not quite as much fairing coverage as the FJR, and you're missing the luxuries like the electric windshield, but I was amazed at the quiet pocket this bike created for me at 100+. Though if you are much taller than 6 feet (which I am exactly) you may feel a bit cramped.

[mygala]

I was kidding about the still air bubble of the FJR to make a point. ALL of these bikes have full fairings, some are larger than others. If you are 6'4", the FJR will make the most sense. If you are 5'8", the XX, Sprint or ZZR will give you just as much wind protection, in a lighter, more flickable bike.

For me, ergos are more important than the fairing. Maybe it's arthritis, maybe I'm afraid to sit to get my head to close to the gas tank (dangerous fumes dontcha know).  Whatever the reason, I'm more comfortable in the more upright position on the fjr. I find it even more comfortable than my old '05 Connie, and I thought THAT was pretty upright, go figure. When I sat up to be more comfortable on the zzr and the xx, my head was out of the still air bubble, not as much fun.

I thought the st4 was a whole more sensitive to a stiff crosswind than any of the other bikes, which is odd, because the fjr or the connie seem to have more of a cross section. ...especially with a top box on the fjr. The quick 'flickable' traits made it feel (to me) that there was an underlying instability when the wind kicked up. It never felt out of control, or even near it, but it didn't feel as stable as the other two bikes I was used to. Coulda' been the tires too...

It's all subjective, and it relies on what kind of oil and tires you use...  

[Cricket1]

It seems as if Bamaboy is looking at an FZ1, or maybe a V-Strom.

"I have been reading up on the FZ1 and am liking it more and more."

Nothing more about an FJR lately.

[Bamaboy]

It seems as if Bamaboy is looking at an FZ1, or maybe a V-Strom.

"I have been reading up on the FZ1 and am liking it more and more."

Nothing more about an FJR lately.

Looking seriously at the FZ1 after I found out that they can be ridden comfortably at low rpms with a carb adjustment.

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/wildrice.shtml#4

An FZ1 or a Bandit 1200S with full luggage seems the logical option for me.  

[Cricket1]

Looking seriously at the FZ1 after I found out that they can be ridden comfortably at low rpms with a carb adjustment.

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/wildrice.shtml#4

An FZ1 or a Bandit 1200S with full luggage seems the logical option for me.   

Bama;

I've ridden a friend's 2002 FZ1 that was bone stock. It had every bit as much low end pull and driveability as my Sprint ST. It starts to pull at about 3K, and by 5K you better be holding on tight!

Some people use an Ivans jet kit, usually in combo with a new pipe, and it offers more mid range and top end. Altho, I am not sure it needs it. A stock Fizzer will run low to mid 10's in the quarter. I suspect the Ivans kit makes it easier to loft the front wheel, but from your requirements, a stocker would work great.

[Bamaboy]

Bama;

I've ridden a friend's 2002 FZ1 that was bone stock. It had every bit as much low end pull and driveability as my Sprint ST. It starts to pull at about 3K, and by 5K you better be holding on tight!

Some people use an Ivans jet kit, usually in combo with a new pipe, and it offers more mid range and top end. Altho, I am not sure it needs it. A stock Fizzer will run low to mid 10's in the quarter. I suspect the Ivans kit makes it easier to loft the front wheel, but from your requirements, a stocker would work great.

Yea, I doubt if I would try to get more HP out of it, I am sure it has way more than I need already.  I mostly need it to hold a straight line at 70+ mph for hours on end.  I would just lift the front wheel every now and then.  

BTW, How would you say the ergos on Sprint ST compare to the FZ1?  The ST seems like it would have a more forward Sport position.  I bet the Sprint is a blast to ride but I don't know if I would want to spend weeks and months on one.  

[Cricket1]

The FZ is much more upright than the Sprint. The footpegs on the Fizzer are lower and more forward than the Sprint, probably about 1" lower and 1" forward. Doesn't sound like much, but makes a big difference. Also, I have Genmar risers on the Sprint, and the tubular bar on the FZ1 is probably 2" higher and 1" further back. Sprint's from '08 and newer have bars that are slightly higher than mine with the Genmars, but not much, maybe 1/2". The other noticable difference to me is that the tank on the FZ1 is wider than the Sprint, so your knees are slighty more splayed. Not a big deal, but noticeable.

Lastly, the Sprint offers much better wind protection, altho aftermarket screens do help the FZ1. Altho on the Fizzer, your hands will not get any protection, on the Sprint, I get no wind on my hands.

If I were you, I would lean towards the FZ1, since Triumph dealers are few and far between, and finding a used Sprint can take LOTS of searching, and maybe a plane ticket.

[Zixxerpilot]

Screw all these people, and get a Harley!


Sorry, it had to be said, just to stir the pot.


The FZ1 is a great bike, and VERY comfortable. The only problem I would have with it personally is a lack of lower fairing, and lower wind protection because of it. Riding one in cooler weather, my legs got cold faster than they did on my full-faired bike. I had a VFR at the time, and switched with a friend who rides an FZ1.

The XX is a good bike, and I put a LOT of miles on one. Comfy, but I think the FZ1 would have it beat there. I'm fairly short at 5'10" compared to some, and the reach to the bars was a bit longer than I liked.

The FJR is definitely the king of ST bikes right now, though. You have undisputed value with that machine. 1300cc powerhouse, more comfortable than most anything, and all the factory farkles add up to one nice ride.

[mustang28027]

Cycle World mag had an article on the top ten best values for bikes under $3k...  The  VFR was listed as a perennial  favorite. They can be had for cheap and are rock solid.  I have a FZ1 and love it( look up yamahafz1oa.com). The older FZ1's  are valued about the same as the VFR's. I guess what I am saying is to look at both. The two things I dont like about the FZ is the lack of good wind protection( I have the sport-touring ws) and the lack of electical power from the alternator. Other than those two, the bike is gold.  Get some soft bags and  a tankbag and you are set, for far less than a FJR.

[2RR2NV]

All true of the FJR - *if* you are 6" tall.

I had no problems with being "cooked" this past summer on my FJR with the stock fairing.

+1. np over here. just wish i could get more time to ride.

[county]

Apples and Oranges.  The ZZR and XX are sport tourers, the FJR is a touring bike.

Depends on what you want.

[artyboy]

I've got to give a big +1 to the GSX650F.  It's a great little bike and leftover 08s can be had brand new for really cheap.  The hard bags are expensive but those really aren't necessary for touring.  Just spend ~$200 on a set of soft bags and $150 on a big tank bag and call it good.  The seat is comfortable, it's got great ergos, the wind protection is very good and the power is more than sufficient for the street.  For the price of a 5+ year old VFR, FZ1 or whatever with thousands of miles already on it you could just get a brand new bike that's still very capable.  

[Craigart14]

I had thought about getting a used FJR 1300 until I saw what they were going for.  Maybe I could afford a slightly wrecked one.  

Wouldn't the ZZR 1200 and the CBR1100XX be just like an FJR if they had raised bars and bags?  I mean really besides being newer what does the FJR have over the ZZR and the Black Bird?

Just thinking out loud and would appreciate any thinking out loud responses.  

Don't know where you live, but a trip to WOW Cycles in Marietta (NW Atlanta) would give you the chance to sit on a bunch of used bikes of different types.

Craig

[brianm767]

I've owned three Blackbirds, and one Hayabusa, and my current ride is a Honda ST1300, my son also owns a ST and a Blackbird.

Even though the XX is a nice bike that can be put in a sport touring role,( I preferred my Hayabusa over the XX for ST ride's) it will never be as well suited for it as the FJR or ST or other similar bikes, as mentioned, it has a chain, clean and lube every 500 miles, pain in the but! and  even with a Sport touring shield, it has no where near the wind protection of my ST, ergos are still more like a sport bike , since it is a sport bike, than a sport tourer, leg room is at a minimum, much more on a FJR or ST, also , did I mention leaning over? much more upright seating position on the true ST bikes, standard hard lockable luggage, increased ranges due to larger fuel tanks, and with a passenger, especially with a top box, they can lean back and not have to lean over on you ,putting all their weight on your wrist.

Oh and I for got to mention, our XX's have Buell Lighting foot pegs, drops the pegs about an inch, and VFR bars, raises the bars about 1 5/8", still no way close to an FJR or ST1300

But yes, you can tour on a XX, and if your used to riding a R1 or a GSXR1000, the XX will seem like a Cadillac, but it is no where near the sport tourer that a FJR is, in both comfort and convenience, in fact, if I was looking for a cheaper way to tour, I'd look for an upright V Strom , those things are comfy, or maybe a first gen FZ1

[county]

Yeah for sport touring you can't beat a FJR or a Goldwing.  Unless you want to get a Miata.