*%&$# Oil Filter!!

[Scratch33]

So literally hours before I'm due to bug out on a 10-day trip, I decide just to be on the safe side to change the oil on my FZ1 last night -- and find that the K&N oil filter is stuck on there like it's welded.  (To answer any obvious questions I did do the previous oil change, I did coat the gasket with oil, the filter spun on easily so it's not cross-threaded, I didn't overtighten it, and I know rightytightyleftyloosey.)

Initial use of a six-point 17mm socket wrench on the filter's handy 'nut' served only to round off the filter's otherwise handy 'nut'.   And the presence of said 'nut' makes it impossible to get either a spider-type or cup-type oil filter wrench firmly onto the end of the filter.  So, even the Plan B 'sandpaper in the cup wrench' trick is out.  

Plan C was a swivel handled, steel-strap type oil filter wrench.  Anyone with an FZ1 knows there's barely enough room in, around or to that damned oil filter to swing a cat, so I had to unbolt and move aside (but not remove entirely) the radiator, then unbolt and remove the aftermarket engine guard bars to get the wrench's handle out to the left side where some leverage could be brought to bear.  Still no go - simply not enough clearance between the filter, exhaust pipes, frame downtube and various engine mount bolts to get the wrench tight around the filter and turn the handle.

Plan D was to try channel lock pliers.  With longer handles than the swivel-handled oil filter wrench I had slightly more room to turn, but the filter again didn't budge, and instead started to deform.

Plan E (bad plan in hindsight) was to try the old standby of whacking a screwdriver through the filter and twisting - nope; the filter didn't turn a millimeter and the screwdriver simply started tearing the thin metal of the filter's outer shell.  Even a liberal pre-spritzing of PB Blaster at the base failed to budge it.

Plan F was to take a chisel and hammer and attack the filter at its base.  Still nada - now I've got even more holes in the filter.  Tired and pissed, I checked my wristwatch (9:45) and decided to withdraw for the night.

Plan G (for later today, and I haven't even started packing yet) is to get a fabric-type strap wrench, respritz the base with PB Blaster and let it soak, then pray I've got enough good metal left on the damned thing to get some grip on it with a ratchet wrench and extension.

Failing that, Plan H (as in the Hell with it) will be to take the Strom instead and deal with it on my return.

[Rincewind]

Man that bites.  Maybe tap it with a hammer to loosen the threads.

Have a good trip!  

[tjhess74]

try this...instead of putting oil on the gasket, put dilectric grease on it instead.  it wont 'tighten up' over time and makes it alot easier to get off next time around.  if that trick is good enough for airplanes, its good enough for me!

[thatguy]

Cold engine?Try warming it up and wearing gloves.

[county]

Cold engine?Try warming it up and wearing gloves.

Did you ever actually do that?

[cgsshorty]

Cold engine?Try warming it up and wearing gloves.

I would imagine that with all those holes in the filter there is probably not much oil in the engine right now.

[Scratch33]

I would imagine that with all those holes in the filter there is probably not much oil in the engine right now.

Correctamundo.  

I do however have a heat gun (preferable to a propane torch)  

[cultureslayer]

I feel your pain.  The azho that adjusted the valves on my 250 last (not me) tightened the nuts so tight I literally had to take a hammer to the socket wrench to loosen them!  I was scared of rounding off the nuts and having to take the whole damn top end apart to replace it all, but thankfully I didn't have to.  

[photomd]

Wow...what a bummer. I don't have any suggestions, but here's wishin' you and Redfox a great trip.

[thatguy]

Did you ever actually do that?

Yes I do that all the time.Why do you seem to find that so incredulous?

[keppyou812]

try this...instead of putting oil on the gasket, put dilectric grease on it instead.  it wont 'tighten up' over time and makes it alot easier to get off next time around.  if that trick is good enough for airplanes, its good enough for me!

Yup, a little DC4 works wonders!!!  Just don't use it internally, or an anything fuel related. Trust me!!  

[Yankee Dog]

go back to plan D or E.  Dont worry if it deforms or tears.  Once it tears bad enough to grip a torn edge with the plyers, get a good grip and start twising.  as the metal twists inward it will pull away from the treads and loosen up.  not a great way to get the job done but you are running out of options.  

And speaking of options, I hear those wee Stroms make a fine touring machine.  

yankee dog

[county]

Yes I do that all the time.Why do you seem to find that so incredulous?

There was no "incredulous" smiley, I was just curious.

[Scratch33]

Victory is mine!!!

[kevin_stevens]

FYI for future - they make special oil filter channel-locks that have big arc-chaped pointy claws like scorpions.  Those seem to be the consensus last-ditch tool of choice.  I myself prefer the tool I bought, which has the same big arc-shaped point claws attached to a vise-grip handle.  You don't have to have much access, and you can use the crush-release-tighten-crush approach to get as tight a grip on the filter as the material will support.

In your case with a trip imminent, I would have given up before damaging the filter and settled for an oil change.

KeS

[Scratch33]

In your case with a trip imminent, I would have given up before damaging the filter and settled for an oil change.

Not how I roll.  I'd chase it 'round the moons of Nibia and 'round the Antares Maelstrom and 'round perdition's flame before I give it up!

[Scratch33]

Seriously though - if I hadn't had another bike to choose from, I woulda left it be.

[kevin_stevens]

Not how I roll.  I'd chase it 'round the moons of Nibia and 'round the Antares Maelstrom and 'round perdition's flame before I give it up!

Ok, that's at least a third-hand quote from 'Moby Dick'.  Show a little contrition!  

KeS

[Rincewind]

Victory is mine!!!

You beat it real good there.  

[Scratch33]

Ok, that's at least a third-hand quote from 'Moby Dick'.  Show a little contrition!  

KeS

Turn in your Nerd card, dude.  

[Scratch33]

You beat it real good there.  

You should see the other guy.

[Mr. Whippy]

FYI for future - they make special oil filter channel-locks that have big arc-chaped pointy claws like scorpions.  Those seem to be the consensus last-ditch tool of choice.  I myself prefer the tool I bought, which has the same big arc-shaped point claws attached to a vise-grip handle.  You don't have to have much access, and you can use the crush-release-tighten-crush approach to get as tight a grip on the filter as the material will support.

In your case with a trip imminent, I would have given up before damaging the filter and settled for an oil change.

KeS

There is actually a ViseGrip shaped like that which I have used to remove oil filters which resisted nearly all methods of removal.  100% successful (including once unthreading the oil filter nipple with the filter base from the engine block)

[scottzilla]

Open oil filler cap prior to filter removal.

[kevin_stevens]

There is actually a ViseGrip shaped like that which I have used to remove oil filters which resisted nearly all methods of removal.  100% successful (including once unthreading the oil filter nipple with the filter base from the engine block)

Yes, that's what I said.

KeS

[Paulie]

Geez, whatta PITA fer such a common yob. I'd apply a dab of anti-seize (copper grease) on the threads next x.

[Mr. Whippy]

Yes, that's what I said.

KeS

Sorry, I didn't realize it was an actual ViseGrip brand tool you were talking about, just that it was a locking jaws pliers.  IME, ViseGrip brand pliers just work better/simpler than other designs.

btw, I agree, it is the Shit for removing stuck filters.

[Scratch33]

Geez, whatta PITA fer such a common yob. I'd apply a dab of anti-seize (copper grease) on the threads next x.

I used dielectric grease per the recommendation above, then torqued it down nicely and securely to the specified 120 ft/lb.

[Mr. Whippy]

I used JB Weld per the recommendation above, then torqued it down nicely and securely to the specified 120 ft/lb.

fxt

[county]

FYI for future - they make special oil filter channel-locks that have big arc-chaped pointy claws like scorpions.  Those seem to be the consensus last-ditch tool of choice.  I myself prefer the tool I bought, which has the same big arc-shaped point claws attached to a vise-grip handle.  You don't have to have much access, and you can use the crush-release-tighten-crush approach to get as tight a grip on the filter as the material will support.

In your case with a trip imminent, I would have given up before damaging the filter and settled for an oil change.

KeS

I have never seen that tool.  If i do I'll probably buy it, I use channel locks.

[2wTraveler]

Open oil filler cap prior to filter removal.

Common misconception with modern engines. The crankcases are vented to the atmosphere via the crankcase breather tube.

[thatguy]

Actually they're vented to the airbox.

[kevin_stevens]

I have never seen that tool.  If i do I'll probably buy it, I use channel locks.

I know I didn't pay $20 for it, but here:  http://www.amazon.com/Lumax-Adjustable-Filter-Locking-Diameter/dp/B000MD3EO4

They're harder to find since the whole Guantanamo/torture issue cropped up.  

KeS

[2wTraveler]

Actually they're vented to the airbox.

Correct, which unless your bike has a turbo IS the atmosphere.

[thatguy]

Not really.I used to do a lot of pressure drop gauging in development of race shit.Tells you a great deal about filter efficiency and Helmholtz points.

[2wTraveler]

I know, but in the case of the guy replacing the oil filter, Hopefully he is smart enough to shut off the engine first. If the engine isn't running, there is no pressure difference, hi or low. Just vented to the atmosphere.

In lieu of avoiding an endless debate...You're absolutely right. (well at least that one works with the wife)

[Mr. Whippy]

I know, but in the case of the guy replacing the oil filter, Hopefully he is smart enough to shut off the engine first. If the engine isn't running, there is no pressure difference, hi or low. Just vented to the atmosphere.

In lieu of avoiding an endless debate...You're absolutely right. (well at least that one works with the wife)

 

winnar!

[2wTraveler]

 

winnar!

I think the phrase is "winner winner chicken dinner"?

[twist]

I was gonna suggest a Dremel next.

[rajflyboy]

Note to Self

Hand tighten oil filters.   Do not wrench tighten!

[Goose]

Note to Self

Hand tighten oil filters.   Do not wrench tighten!

Always worked for me  

[zer0netgain]

There should never be a reason to wrench tighten an oil filter.  Never (or almost never) had a problem with a "stuck" filter that was hand-tightened.

I normally apply some fresh oil to the threads and gasket of a new filter....and wipe clean the mating surface on the motor.

Thanks for the tip about dielectric grease...I'll have to try that and see if it works better.

[et]

There should never be a reason to wrench tighten an oil filter.  Never (or almost never) had a problem with a "stuck" filter that was hand-tightened.

I normally apply some fresh oil to the threads and gasket of a new filter....and wipe clean the mating surface on the motor.

Thanks for the tip about dielectric grease...I'll have to try that and see if it works better.

Not true.
Not only do the instructions on Suzuki's filters state to use a wrench to tighten 2 turns after gaskets meets the mounting surface.
But the Suzuki shop manual states the same thing AND it also states to never tighten the oil filter by hand.
Also; those Suzuki filters are just too smooth to get a good hand grip to tighten it 2 turns.
Especially since it's located next to that hot exhaust header.

In over 60 oil/filter changes I've never encountered a stuck filter following Suzuki's instructions.

[kevin_stevens]

From the Kawasaki service manual:

 Replace the filter with a new one.
• Apply engine oil to the gasket [A] before installation.
• Tighten the filter with the oil filter wrench.
Torque - Oil Filter: 31 N·m (3.2 kgf·m, 23 ft·lb)
NOTE
○Hand tightening of the oil filter can not be allowed since
it does not reach to this tightening torque.

I did this exactly *once*, subsequently ripping the nut right off the top of a K&N filter trying to remove it.  I've still had to use my oil filter "jaws of death" just to get a hand-tightened filter off.  So I disagree both with the statement that there's no reason to tighten a filter beyond hand-tight (according to the manufacturer) and that a wrench shouldn't be necessary to remove one.

KeS

[Mr. Whippy]

I tried using the nut on a K&N filter exactly once.  It ain't a nut.  It's thin sheet metal stamped to look like a hex nut.  Close to useless IMO.  

[photomd]

After rereading this, I do have sumpthin' to add. I use an old belt with a solid brass buckle on filters that won't come off. My '93 vfr had the filter between the two front headers and I hypothosized that the heat made the filter hard to remove. I've only hand tightened filters I could get my hand on, including cars, trucks and bikes. I do torque my oilhead as I can't get a hand around it as it sits up in the case.

Anyhow, all I do is loop the belt on the filter so when I pull it turns the filter to the left. I've never had this fail expect on a filter someone else installed on a truck with two rubber gaskets between the filter and engine. The filter was covered with oil so the belt wouldn't grab. That one took a screw driver punched through it: PIA.

I hope Scratch and Redfox are having a great ride. I'm lookig forward to a ride report.

[tjhess74]

I used dielectric grease per the recommendation above, then torqued it down nicely and securely to the specified 120 ft/lb.

thats the part that scares me!  i havent had any problems just snugging it down by hand.  no torque values needed!

[marc11]

120 FOOT POUNDS?  My axle isn't that much.  I don't think I have ever seen one more than 20 foot pounds.

[Rincewind]

120 FOOT POUNDS?  My axle isn't that much.  I don't think I have ever seen one more than 20 foot pounds.

+1.  No wonder he couldn't get the last one off!  

[twist]

120 FOOT POUNDS?  My axle isn't that much.  I don't think I have ever seen one more than 20 foot pounds.

Your joke detector is broken.

[marc11]

Your joke detector is broken.

Damn'it not again...

[Scratch33]

Your joke detector is broken.

Seriously.  How many days did that bait sit out there with nary a nibble?

[Scratch33]

I hope Scratch and Redfox are having a great ride. I'm lookig forward to a ride report.

On Day 6 of this rain-filled funfest, Scratch and Rue are cooling their heels in Franklin, NC; pending overnight delivery & installation of a fresh rear wheel bearing for Scratch's FZ1 which began to noisily give up the ghost on Route 28 northeast of Tallulah Falls.  Redfox unfortunately had to bug back home on Day 3 for workee.

[Scratch33]

Bike repaired and back home high & dry -- will start a Ride Report after pics are available.

[radon222]

Glad to see ya made it home in mostly one piece  

[Scratch33]

Thanks.  That last day's ride was the pits though - I'm always trying to get home fast.

We get to do it all over again 4 weeks from now, gonna attend the RoadRunner thingie at Deep Creek.  

[dnlwthrn]

I have never seen that tool.  If i do I'll probably buy it, I use channel locks.

Search for channellock part no. 209, 212, or 215.  From their website: http://www.channellock.com/acb/stores/1/category.cfm?SID=1&Category_ID=5

I have one, but haven't had to use it...

[thatguy]

Thanks.  That last day's ride was the pits though - I'm always trying to get home fast.

We get to do it all over again 4 weeks from now, gonna attend the RoadRunner thingie at Deep Creek.  

Roadrunner thingy at deep creek?WTF????

[Lakeguy556]

I used dielectric grease per the recommendation above, then torqued it down nicely and securely to the specified 120 ft/lb.

120 ft-lbs for an oil filter?????? . Most auto lug nuts are spec'ed at 85-105 ft-lbs.

 I could see 120 in-lbs but holy shit 120 ft-lbs, thats tight.

You sure thats correct?. If it was meant as sarcasm, my detector must be broken

[Scratch33]

120 ft-lbs for an oil filter?????? . Most auto lug nuts are spec'ed at 85-105 ft-lbs.

 I could see 120 in-lbs but holy shit 120 ft-lbs, thats tight.

You sure thats correct?. If it was meant as sarcasm, my detector must be broken

120 is exactly what it states in my manual.  

Oh, wait a minute.   *skritch* *skritch*   Hmmm.  That wasn't a zero, it was a dead bug.  

Oops...