oil

[JustMe]

While not joining the other boards, I have been lurking on all of the sport tourer boards.

I think it is time to change the style of riding that I have been doing.  I want a completely different style of motorcycle and will make a post about it, once I can come up with a seemingly appropriate way of putting forth my thoughts.lol

The other concern is about oil.  I have seen the various brands that is recommended by different people and am somewhat confused about this issue. My uncle is the head researcher at a independent labs association and they do research on the breakdown of oil, the lubricating efficiency and also tearing down the engine to see how clean it is and the amount of wear that has been done after a tremendous amount of hours has been put on the engine.  And most of the brands recommended here are not within the top six brands of oil in their findings. However these findings were done with automobile's and not motorcycle's. I asked him what oil he used personally and his reply was Valvoline and if he could not get that he used Shell Rotella as an emergency backup in conventional oil.

I have been using valvoline in my Harley and when I decided to put Edelbrock cylinders, Pistons and roller rockers -- the mechanic could not get over how clean my engine was internally and how little wear the engine showed.

[Seahawk80]

I used Honda dino oil for my first two thousand miles (oil and filter changes at 500, 1000), then switched to Rotella T full synth 5w-40 based on what I'd read here and elsewhere.  I try to change my oil and filter every 2000-2500 miles.

[andmoon]

Both Dino and Synth oil will ruin your engine.

[ctfz1]

Google "oil" and "oil filters" and go with what you trust.  You seem to be getting it right.  Weird tale to ask uncle about svmgcc.org/tech_tips/oil_is_killing.htm   .  Rumor is any non energy conserving oil meeting mfg guidelines is fine. Diesel oils closest to heavy duty all purpose. Latest formulations reduce pressure aditives (phosphores? and or?)  which means ???

[Windblown]

Change regularly.  

The single biggest killer of motors is not the brand of oil but the frequency of the oil changes.

I buy into the synth oil hype so I use it, but I'm an easy mark.

[JustMe]

Change regularly.  

The single biggest killer of motors is not the brand of oil but the frequency of the oil changes.

I buy into the synth oil hype so I use it, but I'm an easy mark.

This is one I really believe in, you cant stress oil and filter changes strong enough. Wish they still had the sock filter though.

[ZED]

I knew someone who used to wrench for his brother that raced VWs (yes, it dates back a bit).  They found that they could get one race out of an engine with normal dino-juice, but could get two races out of an engine by using Canadian-Tire semi-synthetic oil.  I started using that in my engines, right up until my wife started working for a Royal Purple distributor. 

IMO I doubt it matters what oil you use as long as you start a new engine with Dino, then switch to synthetic, and change it frequently.  I get my bike and bug oil by the case, and my truck gear oil by the 5 gal. pail.

P.S. - I guess since I run Royal Purple decals on my truck and bike I am obligated to state that Royal Purple is the best (and it has a funky purple color too) http://www.royalpurple.com/

[JustMe]

I knew someone who used to wrench for his brother that raced VWs (yes, it dates back a bit).  They found that they could get one race out of an engine with normal dino-juice, but could get two races out of an engine by using Canadian-Tire semi-synthetic oil.  I started using that in my engines, right up until my wife started working for a Royal Purple distributor.  

IMO I doubt it matters what oil you use as long as you start a new engine with Dino, then switch to synthetic, and change it frequently.  I get my bike and bug oil by the case, and my truck gear oil by the 5 gal. pail.

P.S. - I guess since I run Royal Purple decals on my truck and bike I am obligated to state that Royal Purple is the best (and it has a funky purple color too) http://www.royalpurple.com/

Anybody coming near my bike with Dino oil will be shot.  I will use a single weight Valvoline, Rotella, Mobil One-- then make up my mind wheither to go synth or not. It is absolutely essential during break in to have an oil that can handle hotspots and yet allow seating.

[BlueRidgeKat]

The single biggest killer of motors is not the brand of oil but the frequency of the oil change

Other than an engine being very low on oil or having none at all, does anyone actually know of a motor being killed by the frequency of oil changes? Personally I do not.

I change somewhere between 7-9 k on the bikes and the cars and have never had any type of engine problem in all these years and 100's of thousands of miles. Use Bel-Ray semi syn in the bikes and whatever brand is on sale in the store for the cars.

What I really dont understand (and the oil companies love) is the people who change their oil every one thousand miles.....keep the bike till it has around 12k to 15k on it or less, then sell or trade it. What a waste of money.

[1moreroad]

Both Dino and Synth oil will ruin your engine.

Yeah.  So will running it!  Wears it out.  So will not running it.  All the rubber dry rots.  Best solution -- give it to me.

The single biggest killer of motors is not the brand of oil but the frequency of the oil changes.

So you're going to tell me that if I chane oil every 100 miles, my engine will last longer than if I change it every 1000 miles? (interval is 3750, BTW)  Got any proof?  Most analysis indicate we change more than is needed.

Rumor is any non energy conserving oil meeting mfg guidelines is fine.

I thought this was only if the the same oil is used in the tranny as in the engine.  BMWs, Harleys, and Ducatis with dry clutches need not apply, right?

[Sport]

I can't believe I'm responding to an oil thread but it is early '07 so this can be my first and last one for the year.  

This is my opinion of course, based on my experience,

'Semi' synth is only half as good as it could be.

Full synth not only lubes better and longer, it helps to cool the motor better than dino oil.  Riding CBXs has taught me that.

I agree that using dino oil in most applications is best to seat the rings.

Motors that do not share motor oil with their clutch need not worry about friction enhancers, wet clutch motors do.  

Wet clutch motors should ALWAYS use M/C specific motor oil no matter how many exceptions to the rule one might hear about.  

There are plenty (more) horror stories about slipping clutches than there are  exceptions.

Agree also that I've NEVER heard of an oil related motorcycle engine failure when there was the proper amount of oil in the engine and the filter and lines weren't plugged.  Agree or not, this is the real deal on motorcycle oil.

[county]

Cheapest oil available that meets mfg specs.  Engine will be running fine (As far as oil is concerned) when you sell it (or junk it).

That said, I run Castrol GTX  

[JustMe]

Gentlemen

You have been most kind and also very informative, which has allowed me to see that the sport bike people are like the Harley people.

I have been tearing down bikes since the early 1950s and have been watching the ware factor, plus the gunk factor for the amount of miles on a cycle and the brand of oil used. I know absolutely nothing about synthetic oil -- well -- except I've been meaning to try it. One of the brands that was recommended here had a high gunk factor and also ware factor.

changing oil is the cheapest insurance you can have, as long you change the filter with it. I wish I had more experience with synthetic's (I don't pay any attention to what the bike magazines say or the supposed to be experts say -- I want to see it myself) but I have a feeling it would be much to my benefit to find out before I make my decision on which bike to buy next.

I got a chance to ride three bikes yesterday -- Augusta -- Ducati -- Bandit. They had absolutely no sympathy for an old man in the curves.  Those young uns really get into it, but I barely managed to hang in there and I do mean barely.  Dog gone 40-year-old whipper snappers.

[jschmidt]

Gentlemen

You have been most kind and also very informative, which has allowed me to see that the sport bike people are like the Harley people.

UH OH! Now you've gone and done it!  

Expect to see a lot of nostrils. The nose in the air crowd is about to descend like the wrath of Jupiter.

[JustMe]

UH OH! Now you've gone and done it!  

Expect to see a lot of nostrils. The nose in the air crowd is about to descend like the wrath of Jupiter.

Hmmmmm, are you saying its clean up time . Ok, I meant on the oil outlook only, hmmmm  Can we call it a senior moment

[evilmedic13]

 

I have been using valvoline in my Harley and when I decided to put Edelbrock cylinders, Pistons and roller rockers -- the mechanic could not get over how clean my engine was internally and how little wear the engine showed.

And not one shot fired? If my FIL(HD "owner") said this to me I'd have a snappy answer in less than 1 second. You guys are being tame. And welcome to the board JustMe.

[hobbner]

I spoke to a engineer yesterday who also happens to be a dealer in Amsoil.  He said that one of the most critical parts about changing oil into any engine is not letting containments into the engine during the change.   The tolerances of an engine to handle dust are actually very small. Damage can be done to your engine before the oil filter has a chance to screen out dirt you introduce into the engine during an oil change. Times that by multiple changes....and you can have a compounding effect.

Few words of advice he gave
Never Ever Ever use 'that funnel' that has been sitting on a shelve in the garage and has dust on the outside...you know the one im talking about. If you must use it, first wash it, wipe it down with a rag to get oil off of it, than rinse and allow to air dry.  Anyone with a chain drive knows that oil loves to attract dust and dirt, your funnel is the same.

Have an 'oil change' bucket. By a brand new funnel and use it for the first change.  Put the funnel and any unused new oil back into the bucket and seal it shut preventing any outside dirt from getting in.  

If you buy Oil by the barrel you must ensure that it does not get dirt introduced into the system.  Buying oil by the bottle is better because the oil is sealed and sterile with each portion you use.  

Be very careful about how and where you top off.  It should not be a casual matter but done in the cleanest most wind free environment you can find. Clean the cap before removing it and wipe the seals of the lid before you place it back onto the engine.  

Maybe this is common sense to everyone, maybe not...just my 2 cents on the matter.

[mike goodwin]

Be aware that todays conventional car oils are now API SM rated and have been totally gutted of their zinc and phosphorus content,which is very important to a motorcycle that shares it's engine with clutch and transmission.
I wont use it no mo.
Amsoil for me.

[Global Rider]

I just use whats specified in the manual that came with my motorcycle. Its also worked for my cars.

As for brand of oil; I wonder if it really matters. A co-worker has over 500K kms (310K miles) on his car and the engine has never been opened up. He runs coventional oil. His rule: change it often and don't take your car to a garage.

[DRam]

Global has it there.  My sister's Honda Accord had over 410,000 miles when she and her husband traded it for a new Camry.  It needed a new head gasket at about 350,000, installed by her husband.  He couldn't find any undue wear on the cylinders, rods, or mains so he just plunked a gasket on it and they drove it for another 60,000 before trading.  The suspension was not good, the body rattled some, the seats were somewhat uncomfortable, and it didn't have the pep it did when new, but it ran well.  He used dino oil specified by Honda and changed it at the recommended schedule  - can't argue with his results.

All my vehicles (except the Dodge Cummins) get Pennzoil in the recommended weight.  I've had some apart on occassion and have not found gunk in them.  My '79 CB650 (owned since new) was the last - taken apart to put in rings - and it was as clean as new inside.

My opinion:  if you're using the vehicle as a daily driver the oil brand isn't as important as regular oil / filter changes and maintaining clean engine  practices (see Hobbner's post above) when changing  oil.  It may make some difference if you're racing or otherwise putting extreme stress on your engine, but the average rider doesn't have to worry about it.

By the way, I'm not an oil engineer or professional mechanic, although I have stayed at an Holiday Inn in the past.

[RowdyRed94]

Many folks made good arguments for engine wear, but I didn't catch anyone mention smooth shifting. I use Mobil 1 15-50 for two reasons: 1) I don't believe it causes clutch slippage and is known to be among the best in tests, and 2) it gave noticeably better shifting. My Bandit's tranny shifts nicely, but if it got too hot, things got notchy with Suzuki oil. Since switching to Mobil 1 it never happens. Shifting is always smooth and positive.

I change it once a season or every 5,000 miles. I believe I'm getting good protection to that duration, and I've seen at least one convincing argument that oil gets better after a few thousand miles because it accumulates some particulate metal. I'll try to find that one.

[ctfz1]

Inexpensive oil changed fequently is at least as good as expensive oil changed to schedule. Sitting, storage, state of tune, jetting mismatches, seem more problemical to me.  

[jschmidt]

Inexpensive oil changed fequently is at least as good as expensive oil changed to schedule. Sitting, storage, state of tune, jetting mismatches, seem more problemical to me.  

However inexpensive oil changed frequently is potentially a bigger polluter than good oil changed less often.

[Spectre]

However inexpensive oil changed frequently is potentially a bigger polluter than good oil changed less often.

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,nnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooo,NOT POLLUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTION..............AHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ctfz1]

For reference reading "motorcycle info and accessories" does a good brief on oil and filters.  The less you run your bike the more you need better oil and changes.