Aux-Fuel cells

[Tony T]

Wow, that looks really nice.  

Is that a custom made tank? It looks like a 4ga with curved sides in the back.  

[motomem]

On axillary tanks do you ride until your first tank is empty and then let gravity or a pump and fill the first tank back up? Can you rig the low fuel float to turn on a pump to start using the axillary. I've always wanted to put one one my bike but now I do good to stay on the bike for a tank of gas. Curious about this stuff.  

[Bounce]

K.I.S.S.

Additional points of failure will... in the middle of the night... in the rain.

Manual cutoff valves as the shiznit because you know what they are doing and can control them directly.

Different bikes handle gravity feed differently. I used to fill up, pull out on the road, open the main feeder valve and the gas guage stayed on full for the first 150+ miles while the aux back filled the draining main tank.

Powered feeds usually need you to drain the main some fraction (3/4) before turning on the pump to avoid overfilling the main (and passing it through the overflow to the ground).

[CLAY]

I made my stock tank bigger- it was easy with theBandit.  I bought a wrecked tank on eBay for like 10 bucks, cut her in half, pounded out the dent, and welded in the 3" strip:




Bondoed it up and smoothed it over:

Primed:

I also had the seat rescuplted to fit the tank and had gel added by Spencer (www.greatdaytoride.com)
Black was what I had on the shelf, so black it is.  LD tank:

Stock tank:

This gets me about 270 miles, plus I carry 2/3 of a gallon in MSR bottles on external racks.  I'm pretty safe and ready to do the James Bay Road...

[David Morrow]

On axillary tanks do you ride until your first tank is empty and then let gravity or a pump and fill the first tank back up? Can you rig the low fuel float to turn on a pump to start using the axillary. I've always wanted to put one one my bike but now I do good to stay on the bike for a tank of gas. Curious about this stuff.  

I wait until my main tank is about half full and then lean back and flip open the petcock on the aux tank. I have forgotten to turn it off on occasion and it will overfill the main and go out the vent hose onto the road. Fortunately the only time this happened I was still at the station and saw it before loosing it all.

One time, something rather curious happened. When I opened the petcock on the aux tank, my main tank's vent must have been blocked. The pressure in the main tank forced the gas back to the aux tank, overfilling it, and then out the aux tank's vent. My GF was riding behind me and saw the venting gas and waved me over. I opened the main tank to the sound of a whoosh of air. Never had the problem before and or since then.

http://www.ldrider.ca/fjrtech/fuelcellver2/fuelcellver2.htm

http://www.ldrider.ca/vfr-stuff/vfr-aux-tank/vfr-aux-tank.htm

[Bearly Flying]

Is that a custom made tank? It looks like a 4ga with curved sides in the back.

I designed and cut out the plates to make the fuel cell, then took it to a Welder to Tig Weld it together.

I chose to keep the weight as low as possible, which necessitates the use of the pump. If the pump ever fails I can easily unbolt the tank and drain the cell into the main tank to get me back on the road. ( Minor issue)

The use of the fuel cell gives me pretty close to 500 miles range at normal speeds.

[Slonishku]

I'm still fiddling around with my aux tank setup for the IBR. Two big challenges: 1. the rear luggage rack on the RE5 isn't up to the task of fully supporting a 5 gallon cell- it's a stock rack from the 70's. The best spot I have found is the pillion seat. The problem there is that the metering oil tank is under the seat. I'll need to refill that tank 4-6 times during the rally. So the fuel cell must be attached in such a way as to be easilly removed to get under that seat.

After a lot of convoluted designs have come and gone, I'm starting to think that using ratcheting cargo straps will be the way to go.

Dale, do you have any advice for such a system? It looks like the IBR rules allow for such setups.

[Bounce]

My earlier-referenced GL1200 DIY project at http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/fc/fc.html used ratcheting tie downs. I didn't do the IBR but passed tech inspection on several smaller rallies. It may have even passed a Dale check at a RTE but I can't remember for sure. The main thing is that someone in authority grabbing it and shaking the hell out of it is convinced that it will not separate from the bike during a wreck.  User straps that are weight-rated way over the actual weight of the cell+fuel (blue straps in the photos).

[Warchild]

Dale, do you have any advice for such a system? It looks like the IBR rules allow for such setups.

Yes, that will work just as long as the strapping is sufficiently strong to retain the cell... ratcheting straps are typically pretty beefy, so you should be good-to-go there.

With regard to that metering oil tank.... if there is any way possible, you should endeavor to create a method to refill this tank without having to lift the cell off the pillion area. The two big challenges there are 1) designing and creating the actual refill  method itself, and 2) you obviously need a way to see how much oil you need in order to refill, but not overfill. If the metering tank is buried under a bunch of components, obviously, that's going to be a drag.

So... if push comes to shove, another option is to design your cell mounting rack such that it is "hinged" on one side, so you only have to remove a strap or two and simply swing the cell out of the wa,y so you can access your metering tank.

Good luck.... you are a real Thrillseeker, riding this antique in the Iron Butt Rally. I will be looking over the RE5's personally at Tech Inspection is Spartenburg, but I know you'll have your shit in one sock!  

 

[yamatech2003]

Or, Would it be possible to re-locate the oil tank on the RE-5?

[Slonishku]

I thought about relocating the tank, but decided that would decrease resilliance and reliability. It's well placed and solid where it is. The oil tank in question feeds the apex seals on the combustion rotor, so it's absolutely vital. The tank is good for about 2000 miles, so I only need to get to it every other day or so.

I've got a few design ideas for the aux fuel cell mount. Now it's time to try 'em out.

[yamatech2003]

or maybe leave the tank where it is and relocate the filler. Use some radiator hose and add a long neck to it coming out the side somewhere. Kinda like the gas tank on a cage is?

[Tony T]

This maybe dumb questions so please bear with me.

My stock tank is rated at 6.61ga. I would love to get as close to the allowable 11.5ga for rallies. So if I add a 5ga tank that would put me over the limit by .11ga.    I heard somewhere, I think, that the IBA allowed some type of temporary fuel displacement in the aux tank, like a empty bottle or something.  


My questions are; Is this still allowed? If so what exactly is used? Do other rallies honer this "adjustment"? Is this too much of a PITA to deal with?

Advice anyone?  

[guitardad]

I obviously can't speak for any rallymaster, but I remember reading a ride report on the LD list recently, where someone had issues because that rallymaster didn't allow temporary fuel displacement - had to be a permanent installation.  So I'd assume that not all rallies use the IBA rules for that sort of thing to the letter.  Also, I believe most rallymasters will include all the fuel hoses 'n plumbing in the volume total, and pay particular attention if the main tank + aux tank are very close to the limit.  Not to say that carrying as much fuel as possible isn't a good idea, just that I'd be very accurate and precise if I was pushing it.

One thing I wanted was to preserve the use of my topcase, even with the cell mounted above the pillion seat.  The tank I ended up with is 11" x 12" x 8", so it should fit low enough to not interfere.  My main tank is just over 6 gallons, and this one is 4, so I'm well under the typical 11.5 gallon limit.  That's still 400 miles theoretical range, probably 350 miles realistically.  And for me, that should be enough - much more and I'll need a pry bar to get my butt off the seat!  

[DNA]

My main tank is only 5.2 Gal and my aux is a 5 gal (that I keep wishing someone would buy so I don't feel so guilty about not installing).

I agree about the top case -love it and do not want to lose it.  If you install the aux over the pillon seat, how will you remove the seat when you need to? If the battery is bad or a fuse is blown?  It seems my seat comes off a lot.  I have looked into this option, and not being able to remove my seat bothers me enough that that option is not going to work for me - unless you have a great idea I have not come up with yet.  

[rajflyboy]

How many miles can a seasoned rider realistically go without stopping?

I can't see myself making it more than 180 to 200 miles at a time.  

[Bounce]

define "seasoned"

1. it depends on the rider
2. it depends on the bike
3. it depends on the prevailing conditions

my max range on my GL1500 with aux fuel was about 310 miles. i would have been able to go farther but the 11 gallons ran out then (and only if nursing it cautiously). my OEM range on the FJR is about 250 miles, i'd like to add an aux fuel that would let me go 400 miles but i don't have the time these days to justify the expense. i can always choose to stop earlier than needed for fuel but i can't refuel on the fly if things are clicking and i'm not ready to stop. on my SiL's Daytona 600 I was ready to stop every 75 to 100 miles because of the riding position (and the Daytonas aren't as cramped as most other 600 class bikes). when testing a 636 for him, i was ready to be off it in 30 minutes.

oh, and in context of really good riders, they are in a whole 'nother world from my comfort zone.

[rajflyboy]

310 Miles.   Not bad even for the mighty Goldwing.   I don't even like going that far is a car myself.  

How do you like the 1500??

[rajflyboy]

How safe is an external fuel cell in the event of a crash???

 

[Slonishku]

This maybe dumb questions so please bear with me.

My stock tank is rated at 6.61ga. I would love to get as close to the allowable 11.5ga for rallies. So if I add a 5ga tank that would put me over the limit by .11ga.    I heard somewhere, I think, that the IBA allowed some type of temporary fuel displacement in the aux tank, like a empty bottle or something.  


My questions are; Is this still allowed? If so what exactly is used? Do other rallies honer this "adjustment"? Is this too much of a PITA to deal with?

Advice anyone?  

If Warchild is the tech inspector, he'll often use (no joke) a can of Alpo dog food with the label stripped off. He knows the volume of the can, and just drops in as many as are needed.