R1200RT Handling Question

[tigertom1965]

As many of you know I picked up a 2009 R1200RT this past April.

I was a little concerned about the squirreliness (Effects brought on by trucker wake) of my new R1200RT since my test ride in 08 had no problems at all even in a 20-25 mph cross wind.

I had originally thought it had to do with the differences in the Michelin Pilot Road on the test bike and the Metzeler Roadtec Z6 tires on my 09.

I dropped the tire pressure to test and that helped some but I was also told by my BMW mechanic that the rims are too soft and run the tires at 40 frt-40 rear.

Yesterday I was blown all over the road with the maybe 10 mph winds and a fast moving 18 wheeler just about blew me into another lane yesterday.   Despite me not having a dealth grip or locked forearms. I was doing about 70 at the time.  I also have noticed that trucker wake seems to blow me right and left when I am behind a truck, similar to my brothers 2006 Kawi 650r with the fork tubes too low in the triple tree.

What can I do to fix this problem on my R1200RT? Do any of you also have this problem?

Let me give you a heads up, this is worse than on my 2006 Concours with its stock Dunlops. At least with that bike I didn't have to worry about my rims as well and could run my pressures lower.

It feels like a chopper. Like the front end is up and the rear is down. I have adjusted my ESA to one person, one with luggage, and two up. I have also tried the comfort, normal, and sport modes. If I run one person (One helmet) with comfort and I get on the gas my bike squats in the rear but I am 230 with my gear on. I also only had my briefcase in one side and my rain pants, my clear shield, and my jacket liners in my other. It is not like I am overloading my bike. I do not even have a topcase. It does lessen when I run without my sidecases but what good is that? I can't see how this would be stable on the Autobahn at any speeds.

I have tested my tire pressures regularly but I am wondering if there is a way to adjust the front preload for my weight outside of the ESA system?

I need to figure this out soon as I am planning a trip for the first weekend in August.

By the way. I did send Velocity Cycles an email asking the service department what they would do in my overheat situation and they never got back to me. Here I thought they were a great bike place to deal with. Instead they are just like all the other crappy dealers I seem to get stuck with.

Should I bring this in to the dealer? I am planning on looking it over tonight to make sure my tires are mounted in the correct direction but I was wondering if someone could post pictures of the Roadtec Z6 tires mounted correctly.

Anyone else in the Pocono, PA area that could look at my bike any weekend in July and June 27th weekend? I will be out of town this weekend.

Thanks

[tigertom1965]

The service department got back to me finally. I am to bring it in for a test ride as soon as I can get it there.

Since I am leaving Friday for a week of vacation the earliest I can bring it in is Saturday the 27th. Since I am bringing my mom up to NH I won't be taking my bike anyway. So I will have it there when they open that Saturday the 27th.

I wonder if they will find anything wrong??

[Mr Sunshine]

Nothing is wrong.  Lower your windshield and ride further behind the trucks.

[awlittle]

I would think with your weight that you should run with one rider plus luggage at all times and maybe two up suspension setting if you have luggage. 2 cents.

[tigertom1965]

Nothing is wrong.  Lower your windshield and ride further behind the trucks.

Mr Sunshine,

You are telling me that the R1200RT, that is meant to run at Autobahn speeds all day long, would be blown all over the road everytime you passed an 18 wheeler, a truck, or a suv?? You are telling me that a 2009 BMW R1200RT is worse handling in trucker wake than a 2006 Concours which was almost the same as the 1986 Concours? And that most of the motorcycle mags and reviews of this bike would rate this bike as the best touring bike for several years running? Even though it is very difficult to maintain your lane when riding at highway speeds? Come on man!!! If that is so than I should sue them for lieing about the handling aspect of this bike in all of the reviews I have read.

Maybe a Pilot Road (Not a PR2) will stabilize the handling on this thing. From what I read the Pilot Road is a sport touring tire and the PR2 is a sport tire. I wonder if anyone has a slightly used set I could try? I wonder if anyone in this area would like to switch bikes on a short highway ride so I can compare the handling and see if it truly is me or my bike??

[denydog]

I haven't ridden your RT so I really don't know, but if the bike handles fine under all conditions except for when affected by the wind from passing trucks, then I'd tend to think the problem was the wind from passing trucks and that it's not a problem with your bike per se.  Maybe the RT's handling is more sensitive or responsive than what you're used to riding?  If the your RT had an actual handling problem, then I think it would manifest itself, at least partially, under other circumstances as well.

But like I said, I haven't ridden your bike.  

...and the PR2 is a sport tire.

FYI, the Pilot Road 2's are sport-touring tires, due to having two to three times longer tread life, and  less grip than sport class tires (like Michelin's Pilot Power), plus the fact that Michelin classifies the Pilot Road 2 as sport-touring tires on their website

BTW- The Pilot Road 2's are fantastic tires.  I just went past 9,000 miles on my set and there is still too much tread left to justify replacing them.  The grip and handling are first rate also.

[tigertom1965]

That is a completely new website for the motorcycle tires. Their old website had the PR2 listed as sport tires and the PR listed as sport touring.

[atadaskew]

The R12RT I rode was rock solid on the freeway in windy conditions.  I'd have yours checked out.

[DangerMoney]

I had originally thought it had to do with the differences in the Michelin Pilot Road on the test bike and the Metzeler Roadtec Z6 tires on my 09.

I dropped the tire pressure to test and that helped some but I was also told by my BMW mechanic that the rims are too soft and run the tires at 40 frt-40 rear.

My own real-world experience tells me your mechanic is giving you the business. I've got a K1200RS and a R1200GS with two sets of rims (cast and off-road spokes) and I run all my tires at 40F and 42R. I don't have any problems with "soft rims".

You may have gotten a bad set of tires or one bad tire. I've run Bridgestone BT-020s on my K-bike for years with zero handling problems. I decided to try Metzeler Z6s just before a long road trip. The bike twitched/danced around at speeds over 50 MPH. I rode several hundred miles on them and it never got any better. As soon as I could, I replaced the rear Z6 with a BT-020 and all the twitching/dancing went away. In speaking with others about it, I've concluded there was something wrong with the Z6 I had.

Metzeler had a bad batch of Tourances back around '05. The problem was well-known in the R1200GS community and was so commonplace people just said "Tourance Wobble" and all knew what was being talked about.

I spent three weeks riding across western Canada on a R1200RT and the bike handled great.

I'd suggest replacing with rear tire with another brand and see what happens or swap rear wheels with another R1200RT just for a test.

[awlittle]

Don't trust that Dangermonkey guy!   How are you man?  PM me so we can set up a ride.  June weather has been great!  I'd PM you but I'm lazy.

[cuoco1200gt]

tiger does the bike track normal in  a straight line  without wind blast?is there wobble or head shake without the  truck wind blast ? I had a 06 rt it seemed to get blown a little in wind blast but after much saddle time I became more in tune to the feedback of the bike , mr sunshine was dead on with lowering the windshield if the bike rides ok outside of high winds it is going to be very hard to diagnose a problem good luck i am sure you will love the rt it is a great bike !!!!!

[FizDog74]

I hated my RT on the highway, especially with the bags mounted. Mine would dance around all over the place behind big trucks.

I always figured it was due to the short wheelbase, broad fairing and shield, and wide saddle bags. I never felt there was anything mechanically wrong with it.

I fixed the problem with a GT.  

[zzrwood]

I hated my RT on the highway, especially with the bags mounted. Mine would dance around all over the place behind big trucks.

I always figured it was due to the short wheelbase, broad fairing and shield, and wide saddle bags. I never felt there was anything mechanically wrong with it.

I fixed the problem with a GT.  

Totally agree - I did 20,000km on a sabbatical in Europe in '07 on mine and it used to get blown around badly on the Autobahn by trucks and strong sidewinds. Glad to sell it when I got back from that trip.

I tried to fix it with a GT but couldn't get on with the K motor - way too highly strung for me - ended up getting an R1200ST which I am totally in love with (and yes, I know that love is blind...)

Cheers
Robert
Brisbane, Australia

[marty2]

I have the Z6s on my 06 RT and and 1150R and feel very comfortable with them since I've done track days with them. Prior to the Z6s I had the PRs which were good to 5k and then would get squirrely.

I hated my RT on the highway, especially with the bags mounted. Mine would dance around all over the place behind big trucks.

+1  Usually ride with a topcase or tail bag unless I need the room.

Had an 06 GT with the BT 021s could not get along with the bike or the tires, traded it for the RT.
Every MC I've owned has been buffeted by cross winds and wind turbulence to some degree. Just the nature of the beast. Relax and don't dwell on it.

I've driven 18 wheelers off and on for 40 years and my best advice to you is not to follow closely and get around them as quickly as possible not only because of the turbulence but because:
You don't know what they are carrying and if anything is leaking out the back or from underneath. Those spots on your windshield  aren't always rain drops.
Damage done by an exploding tire. you don't want to be anywhere close.
 Rocks and other debris thats lodged on the under carriage and comes loose when they hit a bump.
 I've dodged tires that have come of while traveling down the road, more than once.
 They don't handle like cars or MCs
Although most Drivers are professional there will be a percentage I would not want to be near.

My .02

Marty

[Mr Sunshine]

Mr Sunshine,

You are telling me that the R1200RT, that is meant to run at Autobahn speeds all day long, would be blown all over the road everytime you passed an 18 wheeler, a truck, or a suv?? You are telling me that a 2009 BMW R1200RT is worse handling in trucker wake than a 2006 Concours which was almost the same as the 1986 Concours? And that most of the motorcycle mags and reviews of this bike would rate this bike as the best touring bike for several years running? Even though it is very difficult to maintain your lane when riding at highway speeds? Come on man!!! If that is so than I should sue them for lieing about the handling aspect of this bike in all of the reviews I have read.

Maybe a Pilot Road (Not a PR2) will stabilize the handling on this thing. From what I read the Pilot Road is a sport touring tire and the PR2 is a sport tire. I wonder if anyone has a slightly used set I could try? I wonder if anyone in this area would like to switch bikes on a short highway ride so I can compare the handling and see if it truly is me or my bike??

If you want to sue then i'm not going to talk to you as you are a problem.  But you have to remember you havce a HUGE frontal and side area on the bike....what do you expect?

[Bain Dramage]

Your experience seems unusual for this bike.

I ride mine about 80 miles each day (commute), that includes about 64 miles on Interstate 5 in Northern California.  I pass many big-rigs and have ridden in cross winds up to 35 MPH, but I have not experienced what you describe.

I have also travelled I-5 from Sacramento, CA to Olympia, WA and back without difficulty.  I always ride with side bags and a small (BMW) top case installed.

My first thought was wondering if you have an oversize windshield installed, and in the fully extended position.  This might account for some of your experience.

When you pass trucks (or are passed by them) do you stay to the far side of your lane (opposite the truck)?  I have passed large trucks closely enough that I could reach out and touch them (not recommended) and notice a LOT more turbulence than if I cross over the lane and stay as far away from them as possible.

If you are tracking straight down the freeway – no wind – can you take both hands off the bars and ride in a straight line?  If not, you may have some other issue.

What you describe does not sound like an issue with tires to me.

I hope you find a resolution soon.

PS – one of my prior bikes was a 1300cc V-Twin with a HUGE fork-mounted windshield that acted like a parachute when I passed trucks.  It really sucked.  My R 1200 RT handles like an absolute dream in comparison.

[Scoop]

Perhaps it is all relative.  I will be interested to see what you find out at the shop.  I just bought an 07 R12RT (with only 571 miles on it).  One of the reasons I bought it was because my VStrom was a bit much in a crosswind or behind a truck.  In fact, on a straight stretch of slab, I could start to feel turbulence from trucks 3/4 of a mile away (I used mile markers to confirm this)!  I was really really hoping that the RT would be better.  

[twist]

It's a big and relatively light airfoil.  What do you expect to happen when it gets hit by wind from the side?  Concours may be less-affected simply because it's heavier.  Expect the wind blast and correct for it - I never had any problem correcting for it.

[twist]

my VStrom was a bit much in a crosswind or behind a truck.  In fact, on a straight stretch of slab, I could start to feel turbulence from trucks 3/4 of a mile away (I used mile markers to confirm this)!  I was really really hoping that the RT would be better.

Do you have handguards on the VStrom?  That makes it worse, since the wind pushes on the handguards that are at the ends of a wide handlebar.  My GS did that too.  The RT is a bit better than the GS in that respect, but the bike itself is a much bigger airfoil.

[Scoop]

Yes, the VStrom has handguards and many other large parts sticking up in the windstream.  In a good crosswind, it can be a bugger.  I was quite tired of fighting the wind in our last trip, across South Dakota and into Wyoming.  Any bike is going to be affected by wind, but I have found the Strom to be the most active.  My other bikes were a lot easier to handle in comparison.  I have had the RT on the highway here during a test ride and made sure to get behind a few trucks.  Weren't doing Interstate speeds, but I found the RT to be quite stable.  Hoping that remains the case.

[Mr Sunshine]

I can tell you fully loaded at ~115mph 2-up the RT is about as stable as one can expect a big bike like that to be.  This of course was on the Autobahn through Germany.

[Scoop]

That's the best thing I've heard yet.  

[tigertom1965]

Will have to bring it over next Saturday as I didn't get the chance to this weekend. Too damn tired from the vacation and had a visitor this weekend.

Did get out but with the windy conditions I was all over the road (did leave the side cases on). Doesn't seem to matter if I have a loose grip or not or the windscreen is up or down. It has the stock windscreen so it isn't anything I added. Doesn't feel like a wobble, or feel like it is a  repeating problem (Think with tire rotation) and it tracks straight as far as I can tell. With 5-10 mph winds I am blown around. I have ridden in wind before so I would like to think that a 5 mph wind wouldn't have much affect but it is blowing me around on the road.

Now we seem to have tar and chip loving PennDOT crews placing that crap all over my backroads. So no rest for the weary. At least they filled in the potholes.

Bike has 1384 miles on it right now so tires should be broken in by now. I hardly see any wear on them either except for a barely minimal center wear area.

I don't want the extra weight of the GT. I wanted a lighter bike that was easier to maneuver around in parking areas.

I checked for any free play in the front or rear and found nothing.

[twist]

Is your suspension set too soft for you?  Try increasing the preload.

[tigertom1965]

This bike has the ESA. Electronic suspension. It is set at 1 person plus luggage with empty bags right now. I was running it with it set to normal and sport mode with no real affect on wind but a different feel on stiffness and bump handling.

If there is a way to adjust the preload on the front to help the front come down a little I would do it. But I am not sure.

[Mr Sunshine]

ESA on that bike does not adjust the preload for you (you need the K1300S).  It simply adjustes the dampning.  Also 1 person isn't the same 1 person across the board so if you are a bigger person you may need two person mode.

[twist]

ESA on that bike does not adjust the preload for you (you need the K1300S).  It simply adjustes the dampning.

orly?  It looks to me like it has 3 damping settings and 3 preload settings.  You can adjust damping while in motion, but you have to stop to adjust the preload.  Hold down the ESA button to adjust the preload (while stopped).  You can feel the bike rise up as it changes from 1 person to person + luggage - I don't see how that can be done by adjusting the damping.

[tigertom1965]

You can feel the bike rise up as it changes from 1 person to person + luggage

Really??

I don't feel it adjust up.

I not sure it rides any different when I turn it on but I also don't feel it rise upward.

[twist]

I don't feel it adjust up.

I not sure it rides any different when I turn it on but I also don't feel it rise upward.

Are you sure it changed?  When I left for my National trip, I forgot to increase the preload.  The bike didn't feel right, so when I was at a stoplight about 50 miles later, I changed the preload to person + luggage.  I could literally feel the bike rise up by about half an inch.

[FizDog74]

It adjusts the preload and damping.

[FizDog74]

Really??

I don't feel it adjust up.

I not sure it rides any different when I turn it on but I also don't feel it rise upward.

Just straddle the seat without your weight on it. You should feel it move. If not, you may want to have it looked at.

[Mr Sunshine]

There was an improvement to the ESA which did preload.  I know the 2008 R1200RT we rented last year which had ESA didn't do preload.  I thought it was only the K1300S and GT that got the ESA-II but I guess the R1200RT also got it in 2009.

[denydog]

There was an improvement to the ESA which did preload.  ....

Are you thinking of spring rate adjustment?  I thought the original ESA always did preload.

[twist]

Here's an explanation of ESA II:

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2008/10/details-bmw-esa-ii-electronica.html

[Mr Sunshine]

Are you thinking of spring rate adjustment?  I thought the original ESA always did preload.

Ah yes I was thinking spring rate not preload.  Ok...there I go.

[Z50a]

just to put in my $0.02 ...............
I am not a guru on this bike but I did just demo on and it impressed the #$%@#^ out of me !
I got it up to 90 and was out in traffic (don't remember if there were any trucks around........),
 
BUT (here's where I wanted to put in my $0.02)

I have ridden other (rented) bikes with Metzelers on them AND I will never purposely ride / own a bike with them ever again !
One of the bikes rode like the frame was bent, above 35 miles an hour, went back to the place where I got the bike (I know the people there)
and they just said "everything is fine, that's just how the Metzelers ride", they (need to) run at a higher PSI.  
I know some people love them, but I hate them.

also, I didn't remember reading: how does the bike feel at 70+ w/o any trucks nearby ??    stable ?, squirrelly  ?
You could just bad tires ?  either manufacture defect or thread was damaged shipping ?

I will be checking back for updates, as this was potentially my next bike purchase........  Good Luck, Ride Safe !

[twist]

also, I didn't remember reading: how does the bike feel at 70+ w/o any trucks nearby ??    stable ?, squirrelly  ?
You could just bad tires ?  either manufacture defect or thread was damaged shipping ?

Mine feels fine at 70+ with no trucks.  Stable as a rock.  And I have Metzeler Roadtec Z6.  36 psi front, 42 psi rear.

[motoguy128]

I think the tall windscreen, and tall flat sized of hte bike combined with a top case and saddle bags grabs a lot of wind.  The bike has a light front end and is fairly responsive.  I find winds will toss the bike, but it's still very stabel and self correcting.  I think what makes the bike so responsive ot the rider, also gives the impression that it's less stable.  

A death grip on the bar WILL ALWAYS make any instability worse.  The worst tank slappers I've ever had were on sportbieks o nthe racetrack because I was coutersteering too aggresively exiting a corner on the throttle trying to hold a tighter line... that was the wrong approach.  You need to relax, put some pressure where it's needed to countersteer and just anticipate the wind a little.

I've ridden my RT at 110mph with a gusty 30-40mph cross-tail wind.  Did it drift 3-4 feet whe nteh wind hit it ... you bet ya... but was it still stable overall...yes!

I wonder if you're just over compensating whe nthe wind hits you.  Turbulenece and gusty winds are a little like riding in gravel or sand.  You need a light touch and let hte bike wander jsut a little.  Bikes have a natural tendancy to correct themselves if the operator lets it.

[Scoop]

I took my new RT out on a maiden ride yesterday, 2 up with the side bags on.  I could not believe how stable it was and how unaffected by truck turbulence it is compared to my Strom.  I had the windshield at the top with no issues.  It was a relatively gusty day, with 10+ mph crosswinds.  No problemo.  I am quite pleased with it.

[tigertom1965]

Scoop,

What tires do you have on yours?

I have 1400 on my Metzeler Roadtec Z6s and I think they got worse with age.

But my R1200RT drifted from day 1.

The test bike last season had Pilot Roads that were rock steady in 20-25mph wind gusts.

I have Pilot Road 2s on order and will see what happens when I get them mounted in 2 weeks.

[Scoop]

I have the stock Pilot Road 2's.  I also confirmed that my ESA is adjusting preload properly.

[Z50a]

Mine feels fine at 70+ with no trucks.  Stable as a rock.  And I have Metzeler Roadtec Z6.  36 psi front, 42 psi rear.

I hate the way Metzelers ride,    .... they seem / feel un-stable, to me.

[gmcjetpilot]

Sorry this may not be totally "Handling" but more handling when stopped.

I have been dreaming of a BMW RT. I almost bought a used 1150, but now looking at the R1200RT

I am muscular 5'7", 170lbs, girlfriend 120lbs with gear on.

Being on the short side I have ridden dirt and street bikes that were tall for me, but wondering if the R1200RT is for me. You don't drag your feet when you ride. Of course pushing back tippy toe is not easy. I typically dismount and pull it back by the handle bars. I am plenty manly enough to drag it around. I know with any larger bike if it gets over too far standing it tends to go down (preferably as gently as possible).

Any suggestions on saddles, I know there is a low and thick saddle.

Is the R1150RT shorter? I really like the looks of the older design than the 1200RT. Is the 1200 cc boxer that much better than then 1150cc. I can get a 1150cc for a pretty good savings. How many miles are these engines good for? 100K or more?

As far as handling I heard the BMW R1200RT is top heavy with gas and even gear. Is that a big issue. I would think with the boxer engine top heavy should be less of a concern? Thanks for any input.

[twist]

Any suggestions on saddles, I know there is a low and thick saddle.

Get it with the BMW Low Seat.

Is the R1150RT shorter?

I don't know if it's shorter, but it's *significantly* heavier.

[gmcjetpilot]

I don't know if it's shorter, but it's *significantly* heavier.

I did not notice that weight difference.  Weight claimed, wet, is down 7% from 614 to 571 pounds (R1200RT to R1150RT).

SEAT Height for the R1150RT is listed  31.7 / 32.5 / 33.3 inches
The R1200RT seat height was listed 32.3 inches at lowest setting? 0.6 inch is not going to make a difference.

I still like the looks but the R1200RT is a better bike no doubt. THANKS FOR THE TIP. The down side is there are few and far away BMW bike dealers, and the closest one has a bad reputation. I do my own work but that is a draw back with the BMW for me.

[twist]

The R1200RT seat height was listed 32.3 inches at lowest setting?

32.3" is the standard seat in the low position.  The BMW Low Seat has a height of 30.7" in the low position IIRC.

[gmcjetpilot]

32.3" is the standard seat in the low position.  The BMW Low Seat has a height of 30.7" in the low position IIRC.

I've always rode taller bikes that I had to tippy toe a bit. Except for the low chopper cruiser style bikes, most large street (or dirt) bikes I can't flat foot. I have large muscular caves like a gorilla, so I am use to tippy toe.

Not a low rider cruiser kind of guy, I always like sport bikes. Now that I'm older, I want to do more touring, thus the BMW. The gold wings and big Harley's (as nice and cool as they are), are not for me.

The Kawasaki Concours or Honda ST1300.... I have had large Japanese bikes for decades and want something different. Also their seat height is not lower. They also weigh a lot more. Weight is not a concern for picking it up. If I drop it, I can pick it up. I like handling and don't want a pig just for straight line. I equate weight with nimbleness.

I am always surprised to hear people say the BMW R/1100/1150/1200RT feels top heavy?

I saw a Victory motorcycle and was intrigued. I WAS ALSO IMPRESSED with the design, fit, finish, style. I talked to the guy at a gas station convenience store who was on one. He got it new and at a really great price. I could not believe all the bike he got.

Still I love the BMW boxer even if the saddle is a little taller than some of the cruisers. I really need to just go ride one. Like many people, BMW bike dealers are not always close (or good).

[Scoop]

Sorry this may not be totally "Handling" but more handling when stopped.

I have been dreaming of a BMW RT. I almost bought a used 1150, but now looking at the R1200RT

I am muscular 5'7", 170lbs, girlfriend 120lbs with gear on.

Being on the short side I have ridden dirt and street bikes that were tall for me, but wondering if the R1200RT is for me. You don't drag your feet when you ride. Of course pushing back tippy toe is not easy. I typically dismount and pull it back by the handle bars. I am plenty manly enough to drag it around. I know with any larger bike if it gets over too far standing it tends to go down (preferably as gently as possible).

Any suggestions on saddles, I know there is a low and thick saddle.

Is the R1150RT shorter? I really like the looks of the older design than the 1200RT. Is the 1200 cc boxer that much better than then 1150cc. I can get a 1150cc for a pretty good savings. How many miles are these engines good for? 100K or more?

As far as handling I heard the BMW R1200RT is top heavy with gas and even gear. Is that a big issue. I would think with the boxer engine top heavy should be less of a concern? Thanks for any input.

I am about 5'10", but have short legs.  I have always been tippy toes on the VStrom (unless it is loaded up).  On the RT, I can easily flat foot with the seat in the lower position.  I am on the balls of my feet in the high position.  But, I find the bike feels a lot lighter than the Strom and certainly not top heavy.  It is nicely balanced, has good low speed manners and is very easy to handle.  Compared to the Strom, it is definitely not top heavy

[twist]

I am always surprised to hear people say the BMW R/1100/1150/1200RT feels top heavy?

I don't know who said that R1200RT is top-heavy.  It's not.  My old FJR felt a lot more top-heavy than the RT is.

[gmcjetpilot]

I don't know who said that R1200RT is top-heavy.  It's not.  My old FJR felt a lot more top-heavy than the RT is.

Yes I know, I was starting to wounder where I read it? So I GOOGLED: "r1200rt top heavy"

"Weight loss is always good and '05 R1200RT feels less top-heavy and more agile than the 1150" (better than R1150RT)

"I'm considering purchasing a used R1200RT (my LT was a bit too top heavy for me)." (Not R1200RT)

"the entire front end, fairing, everything..just looks way to busy for me..almost kinda top heavy.. " (LOOKS?)

"I owned a 1150RT for 3 years. The 1200RT is lighter, has more HP & TQ, available with cruise control, adj windshield, heated grips and seats, ESA suspension, and lots of luggage capacity. It was a touch top heavy (compared to HD's) but nowhere near the larger BMW LT. My bike was reliable and I had an excellent local dealer. Dealer maintenance is a bit expensive. The aftermarket has plenty of accessories." (This was on a HD forum and the HD is a lower bike overall that you sit down int, but I really doubt the HD is going to handle a twisty road like the BMW)

"I have had 2 bikes in the past 8 years. First was a BMW R1150RT. Nice bike, great air management, quiet and nimble, but top heavy and not that much fun to ride around the streets of Los Angeles." (OK its not a Ninja sport bike)

"I ride an '05 R1200RT, and my annual miles seem to be a balance between solo exploring and two-up touring. Excellent ride for all desires - better than any Wing or H-D I've put miles on. Low center of gravity and good lean angle makes control a given."

"I got my ’05 R1200RT in January ’06 as a showroom leftover with 600 miles on it, not enough for a factory demo discount. This is a top-heavy bike, to be sure, so maneuvers at low or no speed require care. I have found that all heavy motorcycles have similar limitations with so much weight on similar contact patches. Overall, the R1200RT is a great motorcycle."

Sport-Touring.net forums: R1200RT vs Moto Guzzi Norge 1200
"I own an RT and bought it after going on a BMW ride day.  I rode the RT and the K1200LT in heavy rains and crosswinds on the test rides and was impressed with how stable both bikes were in shitty conditions. I've never ridden any Moto Guzzi and I've only looked at a Norge briefly in a dealership.  IIRC the Norge looked smaller (maybe lower seat height) than the RT.  The RT is a big bike and it tends to be top-heavy."

"Handling-  If there is ONE area the RT is the best, it is how it handles in the twisties.   It has a very light feel, and the steering takes less effort of any bike I've been on in a long time.  It does NOT feel top heavy, and it inspires confidence over any road surface.  Finding yourself in a curve with a rough surface does not upset the RT.  It has the best suspension in the business, and smoothes out whatever you come into.  At 571 pounds, the bike is close to the VFR.  The RT has enormous ground clearance, more than I'd ever use."

BOTTOM LINE: Every one has an Opinion. Some opinions are wrong or come from never riding the Bike. I think people perceive it is top heavy by looks or more upright seating position, NOT because it is the CG is actually TOP HEAVY. It is a taller bike. Any "cruiser" with a 26-27" seat height is going to feel less TALL. However riding I'd bet the BMW is better on a twisty road. Look forward to getting one.

[Z50a]

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 26-27" seat height is going to feel less TALL. However riding I'd bet the BMW is better on a twisty road. Look forward to getting one.[/left]

Almost every BMW dealer does DEMO rides (even if you don't catch an event with the BMW factory Demo Truck).

Go test ride a couple of models.....  AND almost every dealer will let you ride a used bike (in stock / for sale).

and form your own opinion  

[Mr Sunshine]

Is the 1200 cc boxer that much better than then 1150cc. I can get a 1150cc for a pretty good savings. How many miles are these engines good for? 100K or more?

I used to own a 204 R1150RT which I put 17k on before trading it for a SV650s (yeah crazy I know).  This past year I rented a R1200RT while in Europe.  The 1200 is more than head and shouldars better than the 1150.  So much I wouldn't even look at an 1150 if I could afford the 1200.

[gmcjetpilot]

The 1200 is more than head and shouldars better than the 1150.  So much I wouldn't even look at an 1150 if I could afford the 1200.

Thanks, good info. Really the 1200 has been around long enough you can find good deals on used clean low mile rides. I was leaning towards the 1200. I did find an interesting article on the web comparing the 1150 and 1200. The 1150 has nice qualities as well, but I might as well get the better bike. The faring and side bag style is growing on me. The 1200 gets better mileage and as you say from your ride, its a better bike. You have to love they made it +40 lighter.

Thanks for the tip that relieves my mind. Bikes like everything are not selling, so deals around, so I might go new. Tour in Europe on a R1200RT, a slight twinge of jealousy just came over me.,   and I'm never one to be jealous.

Just so I am informed, as suggested take a test ride. I might as well try the Kawasaki Concours-14. I know it does not have all the goodies and weights 100lbs more, but the price is right. They say the shaft drive is like a chain, no jacking? I'd like to try it. (edit: I just look and they are selling new 2008's Concours 14's for $10K, $3,500 under MSRP!)

Also I want to ride the Victory Vision for grins. I went to their web site and saw their monster Vision. American Iron (TV) did a whole show on it, which they have linked to their web site. Amazing bike, but not for me. May be for me in 15 years when I retire. I still like sport and local riding. Right now I only do real XC once a year and a few shorter jaunts. Even if I was a hard core XC touring rider, at some point a bike gets so big, you might as well add two more wheels, a body and call it a car.

[Mr Sunshine]

Tour in Europe on a R1200RT, a slight twinge of jealousy just came over me.,   and I'm never one to be jealous.

Don't go the Europe section or...go look in ride reports for a write up about a Europe trip that another ST.Ner just recently took.    

[bonnieboomer]

Just back in VA from a trip to Utah. Tested several K1200GT and RS models before renting an R1200RT, which felt just right. Following a local on his 07 K1200GT with Valentine, covered 220 miles in a little over 2 hours riding time. Some of that was on I-80 and I-84 with semis around, then across the windy high plains of Wyoming. Compared to the bagger Triumphs I used to ride [Sprint ST, Tiger and Trophy], the RT was as stable as a rock, windshield up or down. My last bike that felt this solid at 125 was a 1974 R90S with no bags and a little quarter fairing.

Prime suspect has to be the rear tire. Let's all hope that proves to have been the problem.

bonnieboomer [thinking hard about getting a used R1200RT]

PS - I'm 5'8" with 30" inseam and felt much more in control than with Tiger [Steamer] or Trophy at 0-5 mph.

[Mr Sunshine]

This freaking thread is 3 weeks old.  Did you ever get someone to look at the bike or are you just smoking crack?  It must not be that bad if there is no answer here by now.

[tigertom1965]

I was out of town for a week (From Saturday to Saturday) and only have weekends to bring bike to the shop.

Last Saturday they were closed for July 4th. I will try to get there on Saturday this week. They are just waiting for me to bring my bike in.

This past Monday it seemed to be more stable than before.  

If I rode around with 1 lb of stuff in one side bag and the other empty would that be enough to upset the handling?

I do have Pilot Road 2 tires on order but the rear is on backorder until July 23 so if all else fails I have one more thing to try.

[tigertom1965]

Brought the bike in for a test drive by the BMW mechanic.

Supposedly the bike handles just like all of the other bikes even in the windy conditions we had on Saturday.

The mechanic told me I could drop another 2 lbs of pressure in the tires but no more than that. Fronts were 37.5 after my trip to the dealer plus 20 minutes of wait time. Don't think he tested the rear pressure. So I am guessing it is all in my head?

Hopefully the Pilot Road 2 will help the hyperactive feeling in the bike at highway speeds. I guess after riding around on a 2006 Concours's stock Dunlops everything else will feel like a hyper handling tire? I guess I am down to a tire change to see if that helps any.

Everything else was working like it was supposed to. No dragging brakes or tight wheel bearing in the front to cause anything unusual. I heard a whooshing sound from the front but was told it was the air intake possibly (Nothing out of the ordinary was heard by mechanic).

It does seem to handle unusual when I don't pay as much attention to balancing the load between the side cases like I should. I wouldn't think 1 or 2 lbs would make a big difference?

[Mr Sunshine]

Run 36 on the front and 42 on there rear.  


1 or 2 lbs makes a big difference to me on the track.  3 or 4 on the street and I notice it.  Honestly 37.5 is WAY too high.

[trapp120]

BTW- The Pilot Road 2's are fantastic tires.  I just went past 9,000 miles on my set and there is still too much tread left to justify replacing them.  The grip and handling are first rate also.

I have over 6k on my PR2's and they look new. Absolutely ideal tires for grip in wet/dry while maintaining long distances, daily, at very high speeds with little wear. AKA, the perfect ST tire.

[tigertom1965]

All right I have some time on my new PR2 tires and want to at least put my 2cents in.

The Metzeler Z6 tires seemed extra hyper but with 4155 miles on them they were decent enough. They were just starting to show wear (Flattening) of the rear tire. I guess this was helping to stabilize the handling some.

When I went with the new PR2 tires (With the B rated in back) I went backwards some. But I do not notice any ill handling when trucks go by the side of me. At least it is nothing I can't handle now that I have some mileage on my belt and know what to expect. The tires do handle differently even with only a couple hundred miles on them. They seem to be a little slower handling tire with less hyper activity. Which is great to me. They handle very similar to my worn Metzelers but they don't seem as harsh on the bumps.

My only gripe is that the front end of my R1200RT weaves in the trucker wake like my 06 Connie did (Connie was at speeds of 90mph+). this to me is not very confdence inspiring for a bike that spends most of its time on the highway. At least I know what to expect now. I still like the bike and will ride it until it falls apart, fix it, and ride it some more. I just wish I knew why that 08 demo handled better in the wind and wish I could find out what the difference between the 08 Demo and my 09 is.

I will say that I rode hgome yesterday in the wet and didn't have any grip problems at all. So I do like these new PR2 tires very much. Maybe when they are really scuffed in they will handle even better than they do now?

[atadaskew]

My only gripe is that the front end of my R1200RT weaves in the trucker wake like my 06 Connie did (Connie was at speeds of 90mph+). this to me is not very confdence inspiring for a bike that spends most of its time on the highway.

Do you hold onto your grips much more firmly when you are riding through the trucker wake?

[tigertom1965]

I try not to hold onto my grips firmly. I also try to not stiff arm my bike.

I do notice I get blown around more than the bike.

All of this is now tougher since I am using my winter gloves now and don't seem to be able to grasp the bars as tightly as I did with my summer weight gloves.

Most of this is probably something I am doing.

I just didn't have this problem as much with my Connie. Now that I bought my dream bike I have to readjust I guess. I just thought it would be much better than it is for the money.

My Connie had on the stock Dunlops and I understand that the original Pilot Road tires have a U shaped profile with supposedly helped the bikes hold their line but not handle as well. I guess I was used to that type of tire profile. Now I have a round profile that handles better and I am not adjusting as fast. I just didn't want a tire that took a long time to warm up so I got the Pilot Road 2 instead of the one that probably would have been what I was looking for.

Oh Well......

[falconati]

How much do you weigh?  I'm less than 150, and I sometimes get thrown around if the gusts are over 20 mph

[Hardware]

I'm 6'2" and weigh 270+lbs.  I set the ESA at [helmet+suitcase] for commuting and day rides with no or minimal luggage.  When running one up with full luggage I put the ESA at [helmet+helmet].

I just had new PRs installed before a long tour.  I guess the RT does get buffeted around in big rig wakes but no more than any other bike of comparable weight and frontal area.

I believe that the telelever front end will make it feel looser than a comparable bike with a conventional front end...isolating the front end to minimize brake dive will do that.

I also believe that one has to put about 5000 kms on an R motored bike before they get the feel of it.  

I run the bike stripped down about 50% of the time, 45% with side cases and 5% with the large top case added to the side cases.  Aside from noting the increased weight, I find the bike handles pretty much the same regardless.

Just before I swapped out the rubber, the old rear was getting squared off pretty good (fucking prairies!!!) and it started to feel a little squirrelly...but this was felt more during braking at a stop as opposed to passing rigs.

I suppose defective rubber or a slightly bent rim could be a factor if you think the looseness is worse then it really should be...

My bike does get tossed around in the wind but we're talking shitty conditions (20-40 km/h crosswinds (fucking prairies!!!) while passing trucks) at speeds of 130 km/h...with the windshield in its highest position so I can hear my iPod.