Getting a used Suzuki SV650S instead of the Yamaha R1 as a starter bike

[TitaniumVT]

After years of putting it off, I'm interested in taking up motorcycle riding. My ultimate goal is to get a 2008 R1 (sex on wheels and a great bike from everything I've read), but I'm concerned that's it's going to be too powerful for me to learn on. My rational, disciplined side says get something that's smaller and more forgiving, learn to ride for a season or two, and then upgrade to an R1.  I see people recommend the Suzuki 650SV as one of the best starter bikes you can buy.

I wanted to ask for your advice on three things:

First, if you were just starting to ride, would you consider simply going with the R1, and being cautious while you're learning?  I don't have any concern about being a disciplined/responsible rider. The reason I ask is that I can still pick up a brand new remnant inventory R1 at various dealers...If I wait a few years, I'd have to find one used. I like the idea of being the original owner since I'm planning to keep the bike for years, but on the other hand, I'm trying to be smart in how I go about this. I figure there's no point in getting a new R1 and dropping it as I learn, or having my skills stunted by having a bike that's too much.

Am I being overly concerned about how difficult an R1 would be to learn on?


Secondly, what do you think about getting a used SV650S as a starter bike, instead?  I'm thinking second gen (2003 or newer). Any alternate recommendations?


lastly, are the differences between the SV650 and SV650S purely cosmetic, or are there mechanical differences as well? I'm finding conflicting information about this online, and when people recommend the SV650, I'm not sure if they're distinguishing it specifically from the SV650S, or if either would be equally well suited.

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide.

[kevin_stevens]

It does not matter how responsible and careful you are, you do not have the skills or experience needed to control a 160HP motorcycle.  Even an SV650 is a lot of bike for a beginner.

Absolutely you should buy a used motorcycle.  Motorcycles depreciate rapidly,  and at this point you have no idea of what kind of motorcycle you ACTUALLY want (you THINK you want an R1, but with no riding experience you can't know if a SS bike is comfortable or even tolerable for you.).  You should really only buy a motorcycle new when you are absolutely certain it is the bike you want, and you intend to keep it long enough to make it worthwhile.  Plus you're going to drop it.

AFAIK the SV650 vs SV650S is just a matter of minor parts like bars and fairings.

KeS

[jamesgino]

The reason I ask is that I can still pick up a brand new remnant inventory R1 at various dealers...If I wait a few years, I'd have to find one used. I like the idea of being the original owner since I'm planning to keep the bike for years, but on the other hand, I'm trying to be smart in how I go about this. I figure there's no point in getting a new R1 and dropping it as I learn, or having my skills stunted by having a bike that's too much.

Why are you so worried about getting that particular year? It may be a good bike, but they could also make it better over the next year or so while you are getting more experience on a used bike.

at this point you have no idea of what kind of motorcycle you ACTUALLY want (you THINK you want an R1, but with no riding experience you can't know if a SS bike is comfortable or even tolerable for you.).

I started of with the cruiser style of bike. I'm just now about ready to buy my first sport tourer. Take your time and ride different styles to see what fits you best. Are you just riding around town, long trips, or maybe just on the weekends? Take your time before you get a new bike and shell out all that cash.

Also read this if you have not already:
http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,6707.0.html

Good luck and +1 for being smart about learning how to ride a bike!

[TitaniumVT]

Kevin, thanks for your thoughts. I think you're right, and I'm heavily leaning towards getting a simpler starter bike. I like the SV650S a lot, and after doing more research this afternoon, it seems to me like a lot of sites recommend them for beginning riders. Plus they're actually pretty affordable on the used bike market.

What prompted my questions is that I was at the Yamaha dealership the other day, and the owner was pushing me to get the R1 now over the R6 (or any 600 class bike for that matter). He has thirty years of riding experience and blah, blah, blah....I told him that as much as I loved the bike, it seemed crazy to consider as a first ride. He insisted that the bike could be as docile as I choose to make it, and that he'd always take more power over less so he could power out of bad situations in a flash, and that being able to do that had saved him more than once.  

I'm going to start looking for an SV650S. I'll be taking motorcycle training next month.

[Tony T]

and that he'd always take more power over less so he could power out of bad situations in a flash, and that being able to do that had saved him more than once.  

 

You're more likely to power into a bad situation in a flash.

Don't listen to that guy, he just wants to sell you a more expensive bike. By him saying that I doubt his actual riding experience. There are other ways of getting out of a squeeze, brakes and maneuvering is what you're more likely to use.  

[TitaniumVT]

James, thanks for your post as well.

I've just loved the look of the 2005-2008  R1 since I saw my first one on the road a few years ago, and I know the bike is legendary. From what I've read, the 2007 and 2008 models have some minor refinements and deliver power a little more linearly, reducing some of the high end twitchiness of the prior years' models.

I mainly intend to do in-city casual street riding. I have two other cars, and the bike is going to be competing with my Porsche as a choice for sunny day driving. Since I'll be getting reasonable (but not excessive) use out of it, I like the idea of getting a bike that I'd be happy to own for many years. Given my intentions, I really don't expect to outgrow the R1 for a long time (if ever).

While I'd love to pick up a brand new R1, common sense tells me not to rush it, and to go for the SV. You and Kevin may be right - by the time I feel ready for the R1, maybe I'll decide I want something else instead.

[TitaniumVT]

 

You're more likely to power into a bad situation in a flash.

Don't listen to that guy, he just wants to sell you a more expensive bike. By him saying that I doubt his actual riding experience. There are other ways of getting out of a squeeze, brakes and maneuvering is what you're more likely to use.  

It didn't make a whole lot of sense to me either Tony, but I didn't know enough at the time to dispute his recommendation. Funny thing is the price difference isn't that significant on a remnant R1. It was only about a $1000 differential between a 2009 R6 and a 2008 R1, so in some respects, the R1 looked like the better value. I'll overcome the urge to buy one now. If I still want one in a few years, hopefully I can find an unmolested example without too much trouble.

[Tony T]

Welcome to STN BTW  

Stick around, there's a wealth of knowledge for the taking, you just have to ask.  

Now go over and introduce yourself proper-like at the welcome thread here  

[Baz]

An SV 650 is a great bike for the most seasoned. I have rode both, and while the R-1 is certainly 160hp of shits & giggles, The SV-650 will put just as big of a grin on your face for it's flickability.

I have seen even the most seasoned of riders get into a mess of trouble on a 1000 cc bike. Suicidal for the beginner.

[kevin_stevens]

James, thanks for your post as well.

I've just loved the look of the 2005-2008  R1 since I saw my first one on the road a few years ago, and I know the bike is legendary. From what I've read, the 2007 and 2008 models have some minor refinements and deliver power a little more linearly, reducing some of the high end twitchiness of the prior years' models.

I mainly intend to do in-city casual street riding. I have two other cars, and the bike is going to be competing with my Porsche as a choice for sunny day driving. Since I'll be getting reasonable (but not excessive) use out of it, I like the idea of getting a bike that I'd be happy to own for many years. Given my intentions, I really don't expect to outgrow the R1 for a long time (if ever).

While I'd love to pick up a brand new R1, common sense tells me not to rush it, and to go for the SV. You and Kevin may be right - by the time I feel ready for the R1, maybe I'll decide I want something else instead.

They're certainly nice bikes, but they're not particularly "legendary", and people are falling all over themselves to buy the new 2009 now.  (Gee, wonder if that has anything to do with the sales guy wanting to help you buy a leftover 2008?)

Statistics show that the vast majority of riders change bikes frequently; the number I saw was either 1.5 or 3 years, can't remember but I suspect the former.  A lot of them start with the intent to get "the last bike they'll ever need" and hold onto it forever.  It's not really a practical approach.  Think about how many cars you've driven in your life.  You have a relatively HUGE amount of experience to apply to your impression of what new car you'd like.  Yet you'd still want to test drive several different models - maybe even different types of cars (hmm, do I really want a Porsche or maybe that Audi V8 might be cool).  Knowing *nothing* about bikes except what the magazines say, how can you even formulate a decision?  SS bikes like the R1 are about the WORST bikes for in-city casual street riding.  Absolute worst.  Narrow steering lock, extreme riding position, lousy visibility, tall first gear, maximum under-seat exhaust butt heat, expensive fairings - you name it.  Some of us choose to ride them anyway, but it is *despite* their characteristics, not *because* of them.

You're headed down the right path - pick an inexpensive used bike that you can re-sell for what you paid for it once you've decided you want something else.  Find out what you like about it, and what you hate about it - not what the magazines like and hate about it, what *YOU* like and hate about it.  Find something that has more of the former and less of the latter.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

KeS

[TitaniumVT]

Welcome to STN BTW  

Stick around, there's a wealth of knowledge for the taking, you just have to ask.  

Now go over and introduce yourself proper-like at the welcome thread here  

Thanks! This seems like a great forum. I'll definitely be sticking around, and look forward to getting to know you all better.

[TitaniumVT]

They're certainly nice bikes, but they're not particularly "legendary", and people are falling all over themselves to buy the new 2009 now.  (Gee, wonder if that has anything to do with the sales guy wanting to help you buy a leftover 2008?)

Statistics show that the vast majority of riders change bikes frequently; the number I saw was either 1.5 or 3 years, can't remember but I suspect the former.  A lot of them start with the intent to get "the last bike they'll ever need" and hold onto it forever.  It's not really a practical approach.  Think about how many cars you've driven in your life.  You have a relatively HUGE amount of experience to apply to your impression of what new car you'd like.  Yet you'd still want to test drive several different models - maybe even different types of cars (hmm, do I really want a Porsche or maybe that Audi V8 might be cool).  Knowing *nothing* about bikes except what the magazines say, how can you even formulate a decision?  SS bikes like the R1 are about the WORST bikes for in-city casual street riding.  Absolute worst.  Narrow steering lock, extreme riding position, lousy visibility, tall first gear, maximum under-seat exhaust butt heat, expensive fairings - you name it.  Some of us choose to ride them anyway, but it is *despite* their characteristics, not *because* of them.

You're headed down the right path - pick an inexpensive used bike that you can re-sell for what you paid for it once you've decided you want something else.  Find out what you like about it, and what you hate about it - not what the magazines like and hate about it, what *YOU* like and hate about it.  Find something that has more of the former and less of the latter.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

KeS

Excellent insight, Kevin. Thanks. Seems like I've got a lot to learn about motorcycles.  I appreciate you guys humoring us newbies. You've probably saved more than a few lives by sharing your collective wisdom in the Beginner's Garage.

[TitaniumVT]

An SV 650 is a great bike for the most seasoned. I have rode both, and while the R-1 is certainly 160hp of shits & giggles, The SV-650 will put just as big of a grin on your face for it's flickability.

I have seen even the most seasoned of riders get into a mess of trouble on a 1000 cc bike. Suicidal for the beginner.

Awesome to hear from someone with direct experience with both. Thanks Baz. I'm definitely going to start with SV650S. Talking to you guys has really helped me to make the decision.

[kevin_stevens]

I appreciate you guys humoring us newbies. You've probably saved more than a few lives by sharing your collective wisdom in the Beginner's Garage.

Yes, well, they say no good deed ever goes unpunished.  

KeS

[Zerosum]

There's already been a wealth of good information posted for you, TVT, but I'll chime in anyway.  You seem to fixated on the R1 as being THE bike, the raison d'être for learning to ride.  I'm not trying to insult, but that's the WRONG outlook to have when getting into riding.  You're focusing on the tool, and not the activity.

In my opionon, this is the same thing as an inexperienced person saying "Man, I want to ski down that Black Diamond slope", or "Man, I really want to kayak down those Class 5 rapids."  It only sounds reasonable to them because they have no idea of what they'd be throwing themselves into.  Yeah, they might survive it, but don't you think they'd be better skiers or kayakers if they started out in situations where one screw-up wouldn't kill them?  

Ask yourself, honestly: why do I want an R1?  

Are your answers about the image of you it would project?  Confidence?  Fearlessness?  Prowess?  Badassedness?  That is ego.  At that point, this 160hp machine has become an accessory to your vanity, and not a tool though which you excersise judgement, wisdom, and true skill to have fun and keep from dying.

If your answers are about "speed", "performance", etc, I'll let you in on a secret:  Any motorcycle you get is going to feel like a freaking rocket to you.  Even a 650 twin will out-accelerate just about anything on four wheels.  Frankly, a novice rider doesn't have the skills in place to distinguish the differences in "performance" between a 650cc twin and a 1000cc sportbike.  Unless you count the bike wheelieling out from under you as "performance."  

And if your answer is something like "I want to be able to keep up with my friends"... if your "friends" make you ride over your head... you need new friends.

Like Kevin said, you should get a managable, forgiving bike and ride.  Ride the crap out of it.  At least 5K miles.  Preferably closer to 10K.  Spend time riding and discovering what YOU like, rather than reading magazine articles and talking to douchebag sales guys who probably don't even ride themselves.  (Go ahead, ask them what they ride.  Most of the sales guys I've ever talked to sort of mumble something and change the subject. )  

I'm not really a fan of the SV650S.  I think the ergonomics of the bike are terrible.  The handlebars are stupid-low.  It may feel "good" in the showroom, but it's a totally different thing to be holding yourself up for extended periods of time with those things, especially when braking.  IMHO, comfort is important in a first bike.  If you're comfortable, you'll be more likely to ride it a lot and gain necessary experience.  Wider handlebars also give you the leverage to easily correct the sort of errors that all newbies make.   Have you considered the Yamaha FZ-6?  Or the Ninja 650R?

[jamesgino]

Good luck with your bike search! Another small bit of advice if I may - You might even want to start looking for a smaller bike.

Honda Rebel / Kawi Ninja

Both 250's that will help you get the feel for bikes before ou jump on something too big. My wife loved learning on the Rebel, and there are plenty of people around that rave about the Ninja. I'd like to try one for myself.

Then again if you watch yourself and you respect  the power in your hands you will do just fine.

[PirateT7]

I agree with the rest of the folks here. There's a reason that the first thread pinned in the Beginner's Garage is there. - we'd rather see you moving up through the bikes as the years go on, better than seeing you quit because a big one bit you ... or worse.

There's nothing wrong with being a beginner - we all started somewhere.

[Marcster]

TitaniumVT --

The ergonomics of the SV650 vs. the SV650S are a little different.  The naked SV650 has a more upright seating position and uses a handlebar vs. clip-ons on the SV650s.  There is also a SV650SF which is basically the SV650S but with the addition of a lower fairing:



However, I see listings on Craigslist and elsewhere that are SV650S with the "F"'s fairing added on.  While fairings are nice in terms of wind deflection (and appearance, though opinions vary), they are very expensive to replace for beginner drops.  If you really like the SV650S, you can buy that and run it for 1,000 miles or so till you feel confident and then add the lower fairing to it.

Personally, I can't sit for more than a few minutes on a SV650S in the showroom.  The ergonomics are way off for me.  While a sportbike riding position does become comfortable at speed (when the wind is lifting your chest), it can be murderous in stop and go city riding (as I understand it this is why you see sportbike riders shaking their wrists out at stoplights).

One other suggestion, if you are absolutely certain you will like the R1 and you have space in your garage for two bikes (and cash):
1) Buy a used SV650 or SV650S and run it for the season.
2) Buy a leftover R1 in the dead of Winter (09/10) and have it delivered "dry".
3) Glean info from other ST.Ners as to set the R1 up for long-term storage.
4) Start mixing in use of the R1 with your SV650S during the 2010 season.

You might find that you want to keep both!  Plenty of ST.Ners have 2-5 bikes.  The SV650 (and by default the SV650S and SV650SF) are regarded as excellent one-up sport-touring bikes.  You might set up the SV650S with hard-bags and a topcase for touring and grocery store runs (yes, errands!) and keep the R1 unadorned strictly for barn-burning highway runs.

However, if you later decide that the R1 isn't for you, you will most certainly take a huge hit on depreciation even though the R1 is "brand-new".

I using www.searchtempest.com to search multiple Craigslists at the same time.  You're money will go further to buy a used bike from a private owner vs. a dealership.

One other thing to keep in mind -- even the SV650 will out accelerate most Porsches:

Performance
Corrected 1/4 mile: 11.87 sec. @ 110.02 mph
0-60 mph: 3.65 sec.
0-100 mph: 9.94 sec.
Top-gear roll-on, 60-80 mph: 4.44 sec.
Fuel mileage (low/high/average): 38/44/41

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/roadtests/middleweight_motorcycle_comparison/index.html

[McHack]

I'm a semi-experienced rider...  I rode the crap out of motocross bikes in my youth.   Now, I'm going thru my mid-life crisis at 45 & wanted to regain my love of riding.  

So,  this spring I picked up a used 2006 SV650S.   These things have plenty of grunt to get someone who's completely inexperienced into trouble.    Off the line,  you're as quick as a 600cc supersport, & only start to drop off once you hit 90mph & higher...  and, for a n00b,  thats ALOT.

The thing you may not like about a 650s, is the riding position...  I thought I'd love it.   In reality,  noone needs that much lean for the street, & you'll end up doing some mods just to make it tolerable.
It'll have you folded up,  just like a super sport...   Before you disregard this statement, because I admit to be 45...  I'm pretty athletic, & work out pretty much every day.   You wouldnt think I'm 45, if you met me.  

Anyway,  for me... its been a fun bike, & a great place to get my feet wet again...  but, it hasnt done anything that I found remotely scary.   But,  I have probably 10 years worth of dirt bike experience...

At this point,  I'm already researching my next bike...  which is why I came to this site.

[birdrunner]

What prompted my questions is that I was at the Yamaha dealership the other day, and the owner was pushing me to get the R1 now over the R6 (or any 600 class bike for that matter). He has thirty years of riding experience and blah, blah, blah....I told him that as much as I loved the bike, it seemed crazy to consider as a first ride. He insisted that the bike could be as docile as I choose to make it, and that he'd always take more power over less so he could power out of bad situations in a flash, and that being able to do that had saved him more than once. .

I'd be looking for a new dealer,  he's obviously only concerned with his short term goals, not yours.

[birdrunner]

One other thing.  One of the reasons the SV is so popular, is experienced riders are buying them for track day duty.   A properly set up SV on a shorter track will leave the embarrassed R1 riding thinking up excuses.

It's also a lot more fun riding a small bike fast, than a fast bike slow.

[Zerosum]

lastly, are the differences between the SV650 and SV650S purely cosmetic, or are there mechanical differences as well? I'm finding conflicting information about this online, and when people recommend the SV650, I'm not sure if they're distinguishing it specifically from the SV650S, or if either would be equally well suited.

I found this:

"In addition to the obvious differences between the S and non-S models (with the S-model sprouting a frame-mounted quarter fairing, clip-ons to replace the standard bike's tubular handlebar and more rearset footpegs), the unfaired SV has a slightly longer swingarm and wheelbase, footpegs that are lower and further forward, one-tooth-shorter final gearing and a hair more trail thanks to triple clamps with 1.5mm less offset. "

Longer wheelbase = more stability at speed, but slower steering.
Smaller sprocket = more off-the-line torque, less top speed.

Bear in mind that these differences are not huge... the biggest differences are the SVS's high/rearward foot pegs and the sadistically low handlebars.


I'd say go for the naked SV instead of the SVS, personally.

[bogfro]

You're focusing on the tool, and not the activity.

+1

You might find after you start riding that "around town" sucks, and long rides in the country are more your thing.  When I first started, I really didn't "get" motorcycling until I took my first 100 mile ride through the middle of nowhere.  Luckily, I did this on only the 3rd time I swung my leg over the thing!

I suggest getting something used, cheap, and not too powerful to start on, while you're figuring out what kind of rider you are.  Then YOU can decide what you really want......not some stupid salesman.

Oh, and I'll go ahead and echo some of the other comments on here.  I've personally never ridden an R1, but I could imagine that some of the "jerkiness" I had in my technique when I first started, that if transferred onto a really powerful bike like the R1, might have translated into rocketing me into a tree.

[Flashmo]

Starting out on the SV is probably a pretty good idea.

[TitaniumVT]

Wow, you guys are awesome!

I'm overwhelmed by all of the terrific guidance on this thread - thank you!!  I'll take everything you've said to heart and look at both the SV650/S and the Kawasaki 250. Coincidentally, I saw a red SV650S parked on the street today (first time I've ever actually seen one in person...a sign from the universe? ). Beautiful bike, but I saw immediately what you meant about the low handlebars.

I'm also signing up for motorcycle training in late August. It gives me some time to look at various starter bike options before deciding. Either way, the R1 can wait until I have more experience and a better basis for deciding what/how I want to ride longer-term. Thanks again! I appreciate everyone's guidance.

[Cheddarhead]

Titanium:

There is some "great" advice posted here....wish I'd found ST-N before I jumped back into cycling a few years back.  While it might not have changed the decision I made in buying my current motorcycle, I cetainly would have done so froma far more-informed perspective.

Just one other point to consider...If you choose.

You indicate that "in-city" riding will likely be your most common usage.  With that in mind, I would strongly encourage you to consider the ergonomics of your body position when riding.  I (really really) like the SV650...it's one of two I've considering for my "add to the fleet" exercise at season-end...but If I expected it to be used primarily in urban environments, I might look for an even more "upright" body position...I'd consider the Kawasaki Versys, the Suzuki WeeStrom, or the Buell Ullysses.  A more upright position (where your legs are under your body mass) coupled with wider bars provides for excellent leverage for maneuvering in close quarters.  A higher sitting position improves your ability to locate and identify any potential threats to you / your safety.  If you're inseams are long enough, you can even flat-foot these bikes  (not me!).

One last thought...the hypothesis that you'll "outgrow" the SV (or 'Strom or Uly) may prove false.  These are fully capable of rocking your world in urban riding and chasing the twisties too.  Torque and powerband coupled together in a excellent package in any of these!

Welcome to our addiction!

Cheddar

PS:  Great first thread....

[phoenix]

Ain't no one gonna recommend the likes of a small-ish dual sport?

If I had a chance to re-do my entry into riding, I really would have looked hard at bikes like the Yamaha WR250X, Suzuki DRZ400S or DRZ400SM and the Kawasaki KLX250S. I think Honda has a 250 dual sport as well. Aprilia and Husqvarna have some more aggressive versions. Light, agile, really ideal (IMO) for city riding and for some after hours fun. Most sportbikes are just rediculous for the street. I barely ride my GSXR on the street any more, it isn't comfortable for long and it wants to go over 100mph all the time.

[Marcster]

Ain't no one gonna recommend the likes of a small-ish dual sport?

If I had a chance to re-do my entry into riding, I really would have looked hard at bikes like the Yamaha WR250X, Suzuki DRZ400S or DRZ400SM and the Kawasaki KLX250S. I think Honda has a 250 dual sport as well. Aprilia and Husqvarna have some more aggressive versions. Light, agile, really ideal (IMO) for city riding and for some after hours fun. Most sportbikes are just rediculous for the street. I barely ride my GSXR on the street any more, it isn't comfortable for long and it wants to go over 100mph all the time.

I was thinking about it, but the OP seems to have his heart set on sport-bike styling...

A DRZ-400SM (the supermoto version) would be a kick-ass first bike (as would any dual-sport).

Not to mention all of the plastic body panels on dual-sports are worlds cheaper to replace than body panels on regular street bikes, for those newbie drops.

[Rusty the Scoob]

I really like my naked SV... I have the first generation, a 2002.  It's pretty comfortable for me, I ride for an hour twice every day (urban commuting) and have done some 10-12 hour road trips, I find it quite comfy.   It would be pretty easy to add taller handlebars or bar risers if you wanted, also.  

The posts above about it being a rocket relative to just about any car are true.  That thing hauls if you ask it to, and that little V-twin growl is great!  I'm 5k miles and a year and a half into riding and feel as though I've yet to scratch the surface of what it can do.

[PirateT7]

I really like my naked SV... I have the first generation, a 2002.  

I just went for a lunchtime walk around my office complex, in part to see what bikes are here today, and saw one. Red SV650 with a tailbag - definitely a nice-looking commuter and short-trip bike.

[McHack]

My SV650S is Red, & fully faired...  it really is a decent little commuter bike.   Its just too bent over to do much more than 200 miles...

[Zerosum]

For what it's worth, I don't know of a single SV650S owner who hasn't a) complained about the low handlebars, or b) replaced them with something taller.  You'd think Suzuki would have noticed that and made the ergos less aggressive at some point.

Now the SV1000S is a different story.  I really like that bike.  I'm not sure what's different, but it doesn't feel like a torture device like the 650.  The distance between the seat and handlebars feels greater, I guess.

[Kootenanny]

I'm also signing up for motorcycle training in late August. It gives me some time to look at various starter bike options before deciding. Either way, the R1 can wait until I have more experience and a better basis for deciding what/how I want to ride longer-term.

This is a good plan.  Always best to have SOME riding under your belt before buying that first bike--at least you'll have some inkling what it might feel like out on the road, as opposed to sitting in the showroom.

I took a demo ride on a first gen SV650S a couple of years ago, it was a VERY fun bike (and I prefer the looks of the first gens too).  Yeah, the handlebars were low, but that can be easily rectified (I have Helibars on my Firebolt, which originally had a similar seating position, and they make a difference).  Up here in Canada, Suzuki has always sold the SV650S, but only brought in the standard 650 for a year or two...

Other bikes to consider--the Kawasaki 650R, ER6N, or Versys; the Honda 599 (if you can find one), the V-Strom 650 (if you can get past the looks and are OK with the gargantuan size), the Ducati 620 Multistrada (a real giggle to ride!) or perhaps one of the little Monsters (620, 695, depends on the year--and careful, the 695--and especially the new 696--are a lot of bike for a beginner!).

[PirateT7]

Other bikes to consider--

... Yamaha FZ-6

[bebfsu1]

I've been a long time reader, but just recently registered. Being a SV owner myself, I figure I'll give my input.

Like everyone else has said, I would go with the SV or maybe even something smaller. It's your first bike, not your last. You don't know yet what kind of riding you'll like. I thought I wanted a sportbike when I first started riding, but was smart enough to start off on a dirt cheap GS500 for a year. I upgraded to a SV650s because it had a lot of what I was looking for at a great price. With all the aftermarket, it can make a great budget sport-tourer, commuter, weekend bike, track bike, whatever. With just a GPS and hard bags, mine has taken me cross country and back with zero problems. I even did an Iron Butt 50cc on the way.

For what it's worth, I don't know of a single SV650S owner who hasn't a) complained about the low handlebars, or b) replaced them with something taller.  You'd think Suzuki would have noticed that and made the ergos less aggressive at some point.

Comfort is different to everyone. A lot do change the clip ons for something a little higher. I prefer the clip ons, which is one of the reasons I went with the S model. They will not be touched as long as I have the bike.

[Kootenanny]

... Yamaha FZ-6

Dunno about the FZ6...I've never ridden one, so have only other people's reviews to go by...and it doesn't sound like the best bike for a beginner...

[PirateT7]

I've heard some things about a twitchy clutch, but my '08 is fine.

but in any case, get as many demo/test rides from dealers and/or friends as you can get before buying

[servicerifle]

I don't know why I feel the need to put in my 2 cents but what the hell...

IMHO I don't think there's a SINGLE interestingpublic road in the US where you can realistically use all the ability of an R1.

The fun is in the curves, not the straights, and in tight technical curves all that power is a liability to all but serious racers and track day gods.  Even then I think they'd prefer to avoid so much HP in those situations.  It's sooooo nice to have a somewhat "underpowered" bike with sticky tires, you can open the throttle earlier and harder.  Those big HP bike are just itching to break the rear tire loose coming out of a corner.  Soooo easy.

[Kootenanny]

IMHO I don't think there's a SINGLE interestingpublic road in the US where you can realistically use all the ability of an R1.

True, but...it's harder to brag about your SV650...and really, what are bikes for if not to brag about 'em at "bike night?"

(Of course, spanking an R1 rider in the twisties on an SV650 might be fun, too, but hey...that takes skill, which means you'd actually have to go learn to ride the thing...and where's the instant gratification in that?).

[phoenix]

True, but...it's harder to brag about your SV650...and really, what are bikes for if not to brag about 'em at "bike night?"

  definitely

I had an SV650S, briefly. I thought that bike was smokin' hot looking. I seriously question why I sold it. And to the original poster, the SV was not my first bike. Far from it. It was plenty of fun. Yeah, the riding position didn't work well for long rides on the interstate, but no sportbike is. You certainly can squid it up on an SV. What I liked to do was to accelerate hard up to an intersection and downshift a few gears quickly. With the engine braking on the SV, the back tire would get a little squirelly and slide around for a while. That, and the bike I owned had a race pipe on it (and the 650 stickers were removed by a previous owner) so that bike looked and sounded all the more impressive. Few people knew what it was. Generally I didn't give a shit what others thought about it, I liked it.

[Zerosum]

 It's sooooo nice to have a somewhat "underpowered" bike with sticky tires, you can open the throttle earlier and harder.  Those big HP bike are just itching to break the rear tire loose coming out of a corner.  Soooo easy.

That's why my largest-displacement bike is a VFR750.  And the bike I have the most fun on is my "underpowered" Hawk GT.  

Like others have said, it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.  It's nice to be able to whack open the "loud switch" and know that the rear wheel isn't going anywhere.  

[kevin_stevens]

I don't know why I feel the need to put in my 2 cents but what the hell...

IMHO I don't think there's a SINGLE interestingpublic road in the US where you can realistically use all the ability of an R1.

The fun is in the curves, not the straights, and in tight technical curves all that power is a liability to all but serious racers and track day gods.  Even then I think they'd prefer to avoid so much HP in those situations.  It's sooooo nice to have a somewhat "underpowered" bike with sticky tires, you can open the throttle earlier and harder.  Those big HP bike are just itching to break the rear tire loose coming out of a corner.  Soooo easy.

Blah.  You put out your definition of "fun", cut around the edges, and throw everything else away.

*All* motorcycles are "overpowered" for some normal street conditions.  Yes, even that 250 - how many stories are there of people launching them during MSF class?  I can use "all the ability" (I assume you just mean power, since none of its other "abilities" are different than other bikes) of a ZX-14 every single day, and do.  "All the ability" doesn't mean holding the throttle full open and upshifting until you run into something solid.

We were on a Palomar run a couple of years ago with some of the others here.  I was on my GSX-R1K, another newer rider was on his SV-650.  Apparently he was thinking up upgrading at the time (I didn't know this), and was interested in my GSX-R, which I'd been romping around him on all day.  I wanted to try his SV-650, so we swapped.  Fifteen minutes later BMW-K and I were at the bottom of Mesa Grande (tight, twisty plateau).  Seven or eight minutes later he showed up on the GSX-R. SVs rule!

I was still happy to get back on the GSX-R.

KeS

[servicerifle]

I was still happy to get back on the GSX-R.

KeS

Because you're compensating?

No, I don't think you use all of the ABILITY (don't fucking put words in my mouth, bitch!) of your bike every day.

[kevin_stevens]

Because you're compensating?

No, I don't think you use all of the ABILITY (don't fucking put words in my mouth, bitch!) of your bike every day.

They were your words.

Then what is this nebulous "ability" of which you speak?  I have the throttle all the way open at the torque peak.  I exercise the brakes to incipient lockup.  I run the tires to the pattern edge.  What am I missing here?  Do I have to be sliding the front?  Pulling 12 o'clock wheelies?  Riding balls out every minute of the commute?  Why?  You don't hold the 250 riders to that standard.  If you rev a 250 to redline and drop the clutch, it has "too much power for the street".  Likewise if you spin the rear of an SV650 in the rain.  Or slam the brakes on a Sprint.

Any bike has to have its performance modulated sometimes.  More powerful bikes have to have their acceleration modulated more frequently.  Sorry that's not "interesting" to you.

Why do you feel obligated to define what's fun for other people, or to deride them for not meeting *your* criteria?  What are YOU compensating for?  Hmmm???

KeS

[erda]

As others have suggested, look for a used bike. There are lots of great choices to learn on, and you may find that you like the bike and keep it.

I'd  suggest  you check out a Ninja 500ex  (sometimes called a 500r). Enough power and size that riding on the highway in wind isn't a problem. Great bike to learn on, and lots of fun to ride after that.

[brianm767]

No way would I consider a R1 for a first bike, you want to live long enough to learn how to ride , and starting off on a 150+ hp bike is not the way to do it,  and I will say, many , if not most people are not skilled enough as a beginner or even with  a couple years of riding,  to handle the power, brakes quickness? of a liter bike, or a modern 600 for that matter.

 Also have you checked insurance rates???  I've seen some kids paying a $300 dollar a month bike payment, and more than that a month in insurance premiums

Yes there are some who can and have, my son started on a Honda CBR1100XX Blackbird, he was mature and responsible enough to survive it, but it was not a wise decision and I would not want to see any one else do it.

Honestly, I would look at a Ninja 500, yes it's ugly , but it's probably the best learner bike out there, along with the Ninja 250 for smaller riders.   The SV can be a good first bike if you have some riding experience in the Dirt or if you have some natural  riding skills, but a Ninj500 is actually a better beginner bike,  my daughter moved up to her SV650S just before turning 17 and after a year on her Ninja 500 and she did fine on it, it was fun to ride, and can be made to look pretty sporty,   after a year I swapped out her clip ons on the SV to bars for a more upright riding position.

[servicerifle]

(sigh...)
The words you put in my mouth were making the ASSumption that by "ability" I meant power.  Thanks, but I don't need you to re-interpret what I've already written.

What I am saying is that the lower spec bikes are that way for a reason...cost and use.  Ex250's and the like have the lowest spec suspension, brakes, and geometry to keep costs down and to meet the bare minimum needs of the low end motorcycle buyer.  Because they lack the massaged geometry, outstanding braking systems, and extremely adjustable suspension components, they give up ability.  If that were not true, then why would people replace as many of these parts as possible when using them for track use?  The track is a place where you can USE everything that a bike manufacturer designs into a bike...or at least a LOT more than what you can do on the street.  

You say you use 100% of your ZX-14's ability on the street.  I absolutely don't believe you.  In fact, if you even THINK you do, I'd go so far as to say you don't know what your ZX-14 can really do.

Riding in straight lines takes very little talent or skill.  If it did, you wouldn't see people riding HD's across the prairies with nary a hand on the handlebar for long distances.  Granted, maybe that is interesting to some people (I'll give you that point) but not to me, and not to the riders I ride with.  I ride with some very talented riders, and I don't know a single one that would prefer a 1000 Supersport for the tight twisties that we usually ride.  Corner speeds between 125cc GP bikes and 800cc GP will tell that story well.

[kevin_stevens]

(sigh...)
The words you put in my mouth were making the ASSumption that by "ability" I meant power.  Thanks, but I don't need you to re-interpret what I've already written.

What I am saying is that the lower spec bikes are that way for a reason...cost and use.  Ex250's and the like have the lowest spec suspension, brakes, and geometry to keep costs down and to meet the bare minimum needs of the low end motorcycle buyer.  Because they lack the massaged geometry, outstanding braking systems, and extremely adjustable suspension components, they give up ability.  If that were not true, then why would people replace as many of these parts as possible when using them for track use?  The track is a place where you can USE everything that a bike manufacturer designs into a bike...or at least a LOT more than what you can do on the street.  

You say you use 100% of your ZX-14's ability on the street.  I absolutely don't believe you.  In fact, if you even THINK you do, I'd go so far as to say you don't know what your ZX-14 can really do.

Riding in straight lines takes very little talent or skill.  If it did, you wouldn't see people riding HD's across the prairies with nary a hand on the handlebar for long distances.  Granted, maybe that is interesting to some people (I'll give you that point) but not to me, and not to the riders I ride with.  I ride with some very talented riders, and I don't know a single one that would prefer a 1000 Supersport for the tight twisties that we usually ride.  Corner speeds between 125cc GP bikes and 800cc GP will tell that story well.

(shrug)  I had to assume a definition of "ability", since you didn't define it then, and still haven't.  At least I said as much, and defined the terms I used.  When you or others say "use 100% of a bike's ability", that means nothing to me outside of the context of an all-out race event.  And I suspect everyone who says it means something different by it.

This is way off kilter for this thread.  If you want to continue it civilly, start a thread and we can discuss.

KeS

[TitaniumVT]

Hi guys, just a quick follow-up on this thread. I found my bike, and got it delivered last week! Whohoo!! It came up faster than I wanted, but it was too good a deal to pass up, so I jumped on it. Photos are attached.

It's a 2003 SV650S in the limited edition copper metallic color. It's in immaculate condition with only 2250 (!) miles on it. The previous owner spent $6,000+ on the bike and another $6,000+ on upgrades, including gas adjustable Lindemann racing front and rear shocks, Hindle head back exhaust with carbon fiber muffler, upgraded brakes with braided steel brake lines, etc. All in all, he had close to $13,000 into it. I got the bike for $3,500 delivered to my door, which is as much as I might have paid for a bone stock new 250 starter bike. It's absolutely gorgeous, and I couldn't be happier with it.

I'm looking forward to taking the MSF course next month and getting started riding it. In the interim, I've picked up a couple of great books from Amazon to get me started on my learning. Thanks again to everyone who helped me get to this point!

[Kootenanny]

Hi guys, just a quick follow-up on this thread. I found my bike, and got it delivered last week! Whohoo!! ...It's a 2003 SV650S in the limited edition copper metallic color.

Very nice!  Congrats!  

When those came out, in 2003, I was seriously thinking of getting one--and the metallic copper was my colour of choice, by far!  And yours has the suspension upgrades already done...cool.

[Marcster]

Congrats, TitaniumVT!  Love that color!

[ctbandit]

I'm also signing up for motorcycle training in late August. It gives me some time to look at various starter bike options before deciding. Either way, the R1 can wait until I have more experience and a better basis for deciding what/how I want to ride longer-term. Thanks again! I appreciate everyone's guidance.

That's the most intelligent paragraph i've ever read from a newbie  

[edit]

just saw your purchase, great price for a bike with all those upgrades! Congrats!

[2RR2NV]

 

You're more likely to power into a bad situation in a flash.

Don't listen to that guy, he just wants to sell you a more expensive bike. By him saying that I doubt his actual riding experience. There are other ways of getting out of a squeeze, brakes and maneuvering is what you're more likely to use.  

+1,000. that sales guys is an R-tard. he just wants the bigger payout. sure it's nice to have the power to get out of a possible bad situation, but unless you are used to the power and know how much you can get away with before flipping the bike, it's just gonna get you into deeper sh&^!!! the SV (which is basically the same between both model types) is an excellent choice. i plan to get one for my wife since she has NO bike experience whatsoever. and they are way cheap used. so no biggie if she drops it. i rode one a few years back and it is light and flickable and that V-twin sounds great. needed a pipe, but that's another story. Grats on you for thinking it through before just jumping on a Literbike. i started small and worked my up and i'm glad i did. if i had started with a higher HP bike, didn't work up in HP, and tried to learn to ride something WAYYYYY beyond my capability, i think i would have stopped riding a long time ago. But now i'm gtg and it's the best hobby/fun thing i can do with my clothes on.  

Enjoy the SV for a bit and then you'll have a better idea of what ya want. i love those years ('04-'08) for the R1, but i have no need for something with that much oomph. plus, i want to go back to track days and 600's are better to learn on.

[scottzilla]

DON'T BE A PUSSY.  BUY THE R1.




















Nah, just kidding.  The SV is no slouch, go for it.  I would take it over the 250 Ninja.

[birdrunner]

Hi guys, just a quick follow-up on this thread. I found my bike, and got it delivered last week! Whohoo!! It came up faster than I wanted, but it was too good a deal to pass up, so I jumped on it. Photos are attached.

It's a 2003 SV650S in the limited edition copper metallic color. It's in immaculate condition with only 2250 (!) miles on it. The previous owner spent $6,000+ on the bike and another $6,000+ on upgrades, including gas adjustable Lindemann racing front and rear shocks, Hindle head back exhaust with carbon fiber muffler, upgraded brakes with braided steel brake lines, etc. All in all, he had close to $13,000 into it. I got the bike for $3,500 delivered to my door, which is as much as I might have paid for a bone stock new 250 starter bike. It's absolutely gorgeous, and I couldn't be happier with it.

I'm looking forward to taking the MSF course next month and getting started riding it. In the interim, I've picked up a couple of great books from Amazon to get me started on my learning. Thanks again to everyone who helped me get to this point!

Congrats on buying a sensible yet great bike!

My first thought when I read about all the upgrades and low mileage was "TRACKBIKE".  Did you have any way to see if he raced it,  eg tiny holes drilled for wiring nuts etc.

Not that if it was raced means the bike was abused btw.  These bikes are ROBUST to say the least, and if he took care of it, it's a mute point.

Congrats again.

[TitaniumVT]

Thanks for all the comments, guys. I feel very satisfied with the decision to go with an SV, and also the actual purchase I ended up with.

Birdrunner, I don't know what the original owner's intention was. With so little mileage, it's barely into the break-in period. I don't see any indications that the bike was being prepped for track use (e.g., no drill holes where you wouldn't expect them to be, no unnecessary parts pulled off to shave weight, turn signals still intact, etc). It seems like he just wanted to build a killer road bike. The bike's immaculate, with not a speck of dust on the engine, no body/paint damage, etc.

The backstory explaining the low mileage is that the owner got into a car accident the year after he got the bike. Tore up his shoulder pretty bad, and took a long time to recuperate from it. The bike barely got any use while he was recovering, and after a few more years, I guess he finally decided that the riding position of the SV was too hard on his shoulder and that the after effects from the injury were going to be permanent. He traded the bike in for a muscle car at a dealership about an hour north of me. They dealer takes 3 or 4 bikes in on trade a year, and because bikes aren't their specialty, they turn around and quickly sell them at lower than market prices. Bone stock SVs of the same vintage and with more miles are selling in the $4000s right now.

Everything just came together serendipitously in this case - the bike popped up within a few weeks of my starting to search, it's exactly the year/color combination I was looking for, it has amazing upgrades, the dealership is only an hour away from me and they were willing to deliver it to my door, the price made it a no-brainer purchase, etc. I feel really grateful and lucky.

I'm looking forward to participating on this forum more regularly! I'll be posting more often once I take the MSF course and get through my books and start to ride. You guys rock!

[2RR2NV]

let the FARKLING BEGIN!!!!!!!!!!

grats tho!!!!  gj

[Zerosum]

He traded the bike in for a muscle car at a dealership about an hour north of me. The dealer takes 3 or 4 bikes in on trade a year, and because bikes aren't their specialty, they turn around and quickly sell them at lower than market prices. Bone stock SVs of the same vintage and with more miles are selling in the $4000s right now.

Yeah, you f-ing stole that thing!    Nicely done.  When their business isn't motorcycles, they tend to want the thing gone ASAP.  My Dad did something very similar with a low milage Honda Valkyrie a few years ago.  He bought it from a bank (who seized it or something), then turned around and re-sold it for several thousand more than he paid for it.

I too love that copper color.  It would look decidedly badass with OEM lower fairings, IMO.  

Also, don't be too disappointed if you notice that you're getting worse mileage than you expected.  This engine takes about 5,000 miles to fully break in.  Untill then it'll run a little rough and use a little more gas.  My V-Strom (same engine) just turned 6000 miles.  About a week ago, it suddenly started running noticably smoother at low RPMs and getting about 10% better mileage.    From what I've read, this is pretty common with this engine.

[Kootenanny]

let the FARKLING BEGIN!!!!!!!!!!

What, cell-phone holder, cigarette lighter, and cupholders?

Nothing on that bike right now it doesn't need...why put "busy" stuff on it?  I've seen some bikes with so much crap cluttering the cockpit, you can't see the roundels...

[2RR2NV]

just saying...put your own kind of stuff on there to personalize it to your tastes.  who knows...  you may want a cupholder on there so you can drink a latte while carving the canyon...

[Zerosum]

I vote frame sliders.  First bike + cherry, low mileage SVS... definately some frame sliders.  

Think of how good it will feel when you drop it. (Not IF, WHEN)  You'll pick it up off the ground and only have a scrape on your $10 bar-end weight.  

Spend ~$75 now so you don't have to spend hundreds later.  

Doh.  It has frame sliders.  Drop away!  

FYI, if those low handlebars start to really get to you, you can swap in the naked SV handlebars and they will clear the fairing:

http://forum.svrider.com/showthread.php?t=72804

[LowRes]

What prompted my questions is that I was at the Yamaha dealership the other day, and the owner was pushing me to get the R1 now over the R6 (or any 600 class bike for that matter). He has thirty years of riding experience and blah, blah, blah....I told him that as much as I loved the bike, it seemed crazy to consider as a first ride. He insisted that the bike could be as docile as I choose to make it, and that he'd always take more power over less so he could power out of bad situations in a flash, and that being able to do that had saved him more than once.  

My jaw hit the floor when I read that. The simple fact that this tool knows you don't have any riding experience and is suggesting that you "take more power" in an R1 should be a huge red flag. I wouldn't mind telling him he is an idiot to his face. WHO suggests an R1 for a beginning rider - freaking crazy.

[TitaniumVT]

Zerosum, yes, the frame sliders are already on!  Thanks for the awesome how-to article and the heads up on what to expect as the engine gets broken-in. They're very helpful.

The only other farkling mods I can think of wanting to do right now are installing more streamlined clear LED front turn signals (the rears have already been switched out), and possibly raising the handlebars if the riding position turns out to be too uncomfortable. Oh, and maybe getting a fender eliminator kit. I'd love to install a factory lower chin fairing at some point, but don't know where to find one at a reasonable price.

LowRes, in retrospect, I'm so glad my BS radar went on when he told me that, and I was able to find you guys to validate my gut sense about the R1 as a starter bike.

[Tony T]

Nice bike!  

Well done, you made good choice there and should be happy for many smiles miles.  

[Kootenanny]

The only other farkling mods I can think of wanting to do right now are installing more streamlined clear LED front turn signals (the rears have already been switched out), and possibly raising the handlebars if the riding position turns out to be too uncomfortable. Oh, and maybe getting a fender eliminator kit...

LowRes, in retrospect, I'm so glad my BS radar went on when he told me that, and I was able to find you guys to validate my gut sense about the R1 as a starter bike.

Regarding the clear LED turn signals...go ahead, but be careful.  I prefer large turnsignals on stalks (preferably rubber stalks); I'm not looking at them when I ride, but I want other people to see my signals clearly!  Similar thinking for the fender eliminator...yes, the kit will make the bike look much better and cleaner...but I can't see it from the saddle, and when I'm aboard I DO want others to be able to see my lights, so...well, just go in informed.  (There are some places where the cops will decide it's time to crack down on bikes, and you might get a "fix-it" ticket if your eliminator kit doesn't meet all the DoT regs).

As for the BS radar--yeah, that was a good call, and that salesperson deserves a swift kick.  A bit more power is fine, but the R1 has excessive power and it is FAR more likely to get a rider into a situation than out of one (and not only newbies, BTW).  As for it being "as docile as you want it to be"--well, that's fine on paper, but throttle control is a skill which must be learned, through practice, trial and error, and time...you are MUCH better off learning that on a more tractable bike (everyone thinks throttle control is easy, and it is seldom talked about, but it is as important as any other skill for smooth riding, and takes a fair bit of practice to get it right).  As it is, the SV650S is considered a lot of bike for most newbies.  You'll do fine, but do practice controlling the throttle until all your inputs are smooth as butter.

The problem with the clip-ons goes beyond mere comfort.  Clip-ons are low-set, forward, and narrow; they put the rider in a crouch, and many riders rest their weight on the grips.  This is hard on the wrists, and makes it more difficult to give smooth, controlled inputs; the narrow set means the steering is heavier, and along with the forward weight bias, this makes slow-speed control more difficult.  Yeah, you can learn on a bike with clip-ons, but it's not as easy as learning on a more "standard" bike.  Fortunately, clip-ons are usually easy to raise, which gives a riding position that offers improved control at legal speeds as well as increased comfort.

[danheck7]

I'm a semi-experienced rider...  I rode the crap out of motocross bikes in my youth.   Now, I'm going thru my mid-life crisis at 45 & wanted to regain my love of riding.  

So,  this spring I picked up a used 2006 SV650S.   These things have plenty of grunt to get someone who's completely inexperienced into trouble.    Off the line,  you're as quick as a 600cc supersport, & only start to drop off once you hit 90mph & higher...  and, for a n00b,  thats ALOT.

The thing you may not like about a 650s, is the riding position...  I thought I'd love it.   In reality,  noone needs that much lean for the street, & you'll end up doing some mods just to make it tolerable.
It'll have you folded up,  just like a super sport...   Before you disregard this statement, because I admit to be 45...  I'm pretty athletic, & work out pretty much every day.   You wouldnt think I'm 45, if you met me.  

Anyway,  for me... its been a fun bike, & a great place to get my feet wet again...  but, it hasnt done anything that I found remotely scary.   But,  I have probably 10 years worth of dirt bike experience...

At this point,  I'm already researching my next bike...  which is why I came to this site.