Getting a used Suzuki SV650S instead of the Yamaha R1 as a starter bike

[Zerosum]

 It's sooooo nice to have a somewhat "underpowered" bike with sticky tires, you can open the throttle earlier and harder.  Those big HP bike are just itching to break the rear tire loose coming out of a corner.  Soooo easy.

That's why my largest-displacement bike is a VFR750.  And the bike I have the most fun on is my "underpowered" Hawk GT.  

Like others have said, it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.  It's nice to be able to whack open the "loud switch" and know that the rear wheel isn't going anywhere.  

[kevin_stevens]

I don't know why I feel the need to put in my 2 cents but what the hell...

IMHO I don't think there's a SINGLE interestingpublic road in the US where you can realistically use all the ability of an R1.

The fun is in the curves, not the straights, and in tight technical curves all that power is a liability to all but serious racers and track day gods.  Even then I think they'd prefer to avoid so much HP in those situations.  It's sooooo nice to have a somewhat "underpowered" bike with sticky tires, you can open the throttle earlier and harder.  Those big HP bike are just itching to break the rear tire loose coming out of a corner.  Soooo easy.

Blah.  You put out your definition of "fun", cut around the edges, and throw everything else away.

*All* motorcycles are "overpowered" for some normal street conditions.  Yes, even that 250 - how many stories are there of people launching them during MSF class?  I can use "all the ability" (I assume you just mean power, since none of its other "abilities" are different than other bikes) of a ZX-14 every single day, and do.  "All the ability" doesn't mean holding the throttle full open and upshifting until you run into something solid.

We were on a Palomar run a couple of years ago with some of the others here.  I was on my GSX-R1K, another newer rider was on his SV-650.  Apparently he was thinking up upgrading at the time (I didn't know this), and was interested in my GSX-R, which I'd been romping around him on all day.  I wanted to try his SV-650, so we swapped.  Fifteen minutes later BMW-K and I were at the bottom of Mesa Grande (tight, twisty plateau).  Seven or eight minutes later he showed up on the GSX-R. SVs rule!

I was still happy to get back on the GSX-R.

KeS

[servicerifle]

I was still happy to get back on the GSX-R.

KeS

Because you're compensating?

No, I don't think you use all of the ABILITY (don't fucking put words in my mouth, bitch!) of your bike every day.

[kevin_stevens]

Because you're compensating?

No, I don't think you use all of the ABILITY (don't fucking put words in my mouth, bitch!) of your bike every day.

They were your words.

Then what is this nebulous "ability" of which you speak?  I have the throttle all the way open at the torque peak.  I exercise the brakes to incipient lockup.  I run the tires to the pattern edge.  What am I missing here?  Do I have to be sliding the front?  Pulling 12 o'clock wheelies?  Riding balls out every minute of the commute?  Why?  You don't hold the 250 riders to that standard.  If you rev a 250 to redline and drop the clutch, it has "too much power for the street".  Likewise if you spin the rear of an SV650 in the rain.  Or slam the brakes on a Sprint.

Any bike has to have its performance modulated sometimes.  More powerful bikes have to have their acceleration modulated more frequently.  Sorry that's not "interesting" to you.

Why do you feel obligated to define what's fun for other people, or to deride them for not meeting *your* criteria?  What are YOU compensating for?  Hmmm???

KeS

[erda]

As others have suggested, look for a used bike. There are lots of great choices to learn on, and you may find that you like the bike and keep it.

I'd  suggest  you check out a Ninja 500ex  (sometimes called a 500r). Enough power and size that riding on the highway in wind isn't a problem. Great bike to learn on, and lots of fun to ride after that.

[brianm767]

No way would I consider a R1 for a first bike, you want to live long enough to learn how to ride , and starting off on a 150+ hp bike is not the way to do it,  and I will say, many , if not most people are not skilled enough as a beginner or even with  a couple years of riding,  to handle the power, brakes quickness? of a liter bike, or a modern 600 for that matter.

 Also have you checked insurance rates???  I've seen some kids paying a $300 dollar a month bike payment, and more than that a month in insurance premiums

Yes there are some who can and have, my son started on a Honda CBR1100XX Blackbird, he was mature and responsible enough to survive it, but it was not a wise decision and I would not want to see any one else do it.

Honestly, I would look at a Ninja 500, yes it's ugly , but it's probably the best learner bike out there, along with the Ninja 250 for smaller riders.   The SV can be a good first bike if you have some riding experience in the Dirt or if you have some natural  riding skills, but a Ninj500 is actually a better beginner bike,  my daughter moved up to her SV650S just before turning 17 and after a year on her Ninja 500 and she did fine on it, it was fun to ride, and can be made to look pretty sporty,   after a year I swapped out her clip ons on the SV to bars for a more upright riding position.

[servicerifle]

(sigh...)
The words you put in my mouth were making the ASSumption that by "ability" I meant power.  Thanks, but I don't need you to re-interpret what I've already written.

What I am saying is that the lower spec bikes are that way for a reason...cost and use.  Ex250's and the like have the lowest spec suspension, brakes, and geometry to keep costs down and to meet the bare minimum needs of the low end motorcycle buyer.  Because they lack the massaged geometry, outstanding braking systems, and extremely adjustable suspension components, they give up ability.  If that were not true, then why would people replace as many of these parts as possible when using them for track use?  The track is a place where you can USE everything that a bike manufacturer designs into a bike...or at least a LOT more than what you can do on the street.  

You say you use 100% of your ZX-14's ability on the street.  I absolutely don't believe you.  In fact, if you even THINK you do, I'd go so far as to say you don't know what your ZX-14 can really do.

Riding in straight lines takes very little talent or skill.  If it did, you wouldn't see people riding HD's across the prairies with nary a hand on the handlebar for long distances.  Granted, maybe that is interesting to some people (I'll give you that point) but not to me, and not to the riders I ride with.  I ride with some very talented riders, and I don't know a single one that would prefer a 1000 Supersport for the tight twisties that we usually ride.  Corner speeds between 125cc GP bikes and 800cc GP will tell that story well.

[kevin_stevens]

(sigh...)
The words you put in my mouth were making the ASSumption that by "ability" I meant power.  Thanks, but I don't need you to re-interpret what I've already written.

What I am saying is that the lower spec bikes are that way for a reason...cost and use.  Ex250's and the like have the lowest spec suspension, brakes, and geometry to keep costs down and to meet the bare minimum needs of the low end motorcycle buyer.  Because they lack the massaged geometry, outstanding braking systems, and extremely adjustable suspension components, they give up ability.  If that were not true, then why would people replace as many of these parts as possible when using them for track use?  The track is a place where you can USE everything that a bike manufacturer designs into a bike...or at least a LOT more than what you can do on the street.  

You say you use 100% of your ZX-14's ability on the street.  I absolutely don't believe you.  In fact, if you even THINK you do, I'd go so far as to say you don't know what your ZX-14 can really do.

Riding in straight lines takes very little talent or skill.  If it did, you wouldn't see people riding HD's across the prairies with nary a hand on the handlebar for long distances.  Granted, maybe that is interesting to some people (I'll give you that point) but not to me, and not to the riders I ride with.  I ride with some very talented riders, and I don't know a single one that would prefer a 1000 Supersport for the tight twisties that we usually ride.  Corner speeds between 125cc GP bikes and 800cc GP will tell that story well.

(shrug)  I had to assume a definition of "ability", since you didn't define it then, and still haven't.  At least I said as much, and defined the terms I used.  When you or others say "use 100% of a bike's ability", that means nothing to me outside of the context of an all-out race event.  And I suspect everyone who says it means something different by it.

This is way off kilter for this thread.  If you want to continue it civilly, start a thread and we can discuss.

KeS

[TitaniumVT]

Hi guys, just a quick follow-up on this thread. I found my bike, and got it delivered last week! Whohoo!! It came up faster than I wanted, but it was too good a deal to pass up, so I jumped on it. Photos are attached.

It's a 2003 SV650S in the limited edition copper metallic color. It's in immaculate condition with only 2250 (!) miles on it. The previous owner spent $6,000+ on the bike and another $6,000+ on upgrades, including gas adjustable Lindemann racing front and rear shocks, Hindle head back exhaust with carbon fiber muffler, upgraded brakes with braided steel brake lines, etc. All in all, he had close to $13,000 into it. I got the bike for $3,500 delivered to my door, which is as much as I might have paid for a bone stock new 250 starter bike. It's absolutely gorgeous, and I couldn't be happier with it.

I'm looking forward to taking the MSF course next month and getting started riding it. In the interim, I've picked up a couple of great books from Amazon to get me started on my learning. Thanks again to everyone who helped me get to this point!

[Kootenanny]

Hi guys, just a quick follow-up on this thread. I found my bike, and got it delivered last week! Whohoo!! ...It's a 2003 SV650S in the limited edition copper metallic color.

Very nice!  Congrats!  

When those came out, in 2003, I was seriously thinking of getting one--and the metallic copper was my colour of choice, by far!  And yours has the suspension upgrades already done...cool.

[Marcster]

Congrats, TitaniumVT!  Love that color!

[ctbandit]

I'm also signing up for motorcycle training in late August. It gives me some time to look at various starter bike options before deciding. Either way, the R1 can wait until I have more experience and a better basis for deciding what/how I want to ride longer-term. Thanks again! I appreciate everyone's guidance.

That's the most intelligent paragraph i've ever read from a newbie  

[edit]

just saw your purchase, great price for a bike with all those upgrades! Congrats!

[2RR2NV]

 

You're more likely to power into a bad situation in a flash.

Don't listen to that guy, he just wants to sell you a more expensive bike. By him saying that I doubt his actual riding experience. There are other ways of getting out of a squeeze, brakes and maneuvering is what you're more likely to use.  

+1,000. that sales guys is an R-tard. he just wants the bigger payout. sure it's nice to have the power to get out of a possible bad situation, but unless you are used to the power and know how much you can get away with before flipping the bike, it's just gonna get you into deeper sh&^!!! the SV (which is basically the same between both model types) is an excellent choice. i plan to get one for my wife since she has NO bike experience whatsoever. and they are way cheap used. so no biggie if she drops it. i rode one a few years back and it is light and flickable and that V-twin sounds great. needed a pipe, but that's another story. Grats on you for thinking it through before just jumping on a Literbike. i started small and worked my up and i'm glad i did. if i had started with a higher HP bike, didn't work up in HP, and tried to learn to ride something WAYYYYY beyond my capability, i think i would have stopped riding a long time ago. But now i'm gtg and it's the best hobby/fun thing i can do with my clothes on.  

Enjoy the SV for a bit and then you'll have a better idea of what ya want. i love those years ('04-'08) for the R1, but i have no need for something with that much oomph. plus, i want to go back to track days and 600's are better to learn on.

[scottzilla]

DON'T BE A PUSSY.  BUY THE R1.




















Nah, just kidding.  The SV is no slouch, go for it.  I would take it over the 250 Ninja.

[birdrunner]

Hi guys, just a quick follow-up on this thread. I found my bike, and got it delivered last week! Whohoo!! It came up faster than I wanted, but it was too good a deal to pass up, so I jumped on it. Photos are attached.

It's a 2003 SV650S in the limited edition copper metallic color. It's in immaculate condition with only 2250 (!) miles on it. The previous owner spent $6,000+ on the bike and another $6,000+ on upgrades, including gas adjustable Lindemann racing front and rear shocks, Hindle head back exhaust with carbon fiber muffler, upgraded brakes with braided steel brake lines, etc. All in all, he had close to $13,000 into it. I got the bike for $3,500 delivered to my door, which is as much as I might have paid for a bone stock new 250 starter bike. It's absolutely gorgeous, and I couldn't be happier with it.

I'm looking forward to taking the MSF course next month and getting started riding it. In the interim, I've picked up a couple of great books from Amazon to get me started on my learning. Thanks again to everyone who helped me get to this point!

Congrats on buying a sensible yet great bike!

My first thought when I read about all the upgrades and low mileage was "TRACKBIKE".  Did you have any way to see if he raced it,  eg tiny holes drilled for wiring nuts etc.

Not that if it was raced means the bike was abused btw.  These bikes are ROBUST to say the least, and if he took care of it, it's a mute point.

Congrats again.

[TitaniumVT]

Thanks for all the comments, guys. I feel very satisfied with the decision to go with an SV, and also the actual purchase I ended up with.

Birdrunner, I don't know what the original owner's intention was. With so little mileage, it's barely into the break-in period. I don't see any indications that the bike was being prepped for track use (e.g., no drill holes where you wouldn't expect them to be, no unnecessary parts pulled off to shave weight, turn signals still intact, etc). It seems like he just wanted to build a killer road bike. The bike's immaculate, with not a speck of dust on the engine, no body/paint damage, etc.

The backstory explaining the low mileage is that the owner got into a car accident the year after he got the bike. Tore up his shoulder pretty bad, and took a long time to recuperate from it. The bike barely got any use while he was recovering, and after a few more years, I guess he finally decided that the riding position of the SV was too hard on his shoulder and that the after effects from the injury were going to be permanent. He traded the bike in for a muscle car at a dealership about an hour north of me. They dealer takes 3 or 4 bikes in on trade a year, and because bikes aren't their specialty, they turn around and quickly sell them at lower than market prices. Bone stock SVs of the same vintage and with more miles are selling in the $4000s right now.

Everything just came together serendipitously in this case - the bike popped up within a few weeks of my starting to search, it's exactly the year/color combination I was looking for, it has amazing upgrades, the dealership is only an hour away from me and they were willing to deliver it to my door, the price made it a no-brainer purchase, etc. I feel really grateful and lucky.

I'm looking forward to participating on this forum more regularly! I'll be posting more often once I take the MSF course and get through my books and start to ride. You guys rock!

[2RR2NV]

let the FARKLING BEGIN!!!!!!!!!!

grats tho!!!!  gj

[Zerosum]

He traded the bike in for a muscle car at a dealership about an hour north of me. The dealer takes 3 or 4 bikes in on trade a year, and because bikes aren't their specialty, they turn around and quickly sell them at lower than market prices. Bone stock SVs of the same vintage and with more miles are selling in the $4000s right now.

Yeah, you f-ing stole that thing!    Nicely done.  When their business isn't motorcycles, they tend to want the thing gone ASAP.  My Dad did something very similar with a low milage Honda Valkyrie a few years ago.  He bought it from a bank (who seized it or something), then turned around and re-sold it for several thousand more than he paid for it.

I too love that copper color.  It would look decidedly badass with OEM lower fairings, IMO.  

Also, don't be too disappointed if you notice that you're getting worse mileage than you expected.  This engine takes about 5,000 miles to fully break in.  Untill then it'll run a little rough and use a little more gas.  My V-Strom (same engine) just turned 6000 miles.  About a week ago, it suddenly started running noticably smoother at low RPMs and getting about 10% better mileage.    From what I've read, this is pretty common with this engine.

[Kootenanny]

let the FARKLING BEGIN!!!!!!!!!!

What, cell-phone holder, cigarette lighter, and cupholders?

Nothing on that bike right now it doesn't need...why put "busy" stuff on it?  I've seen some bikes with so much crap cluttering the cockpit, you can't see the roundels...

[2RR2NV]

just saying...put your own kind of stuff on there to personalize it to your tastes.  who knows...  you may want a cupholder on there so you can drink a latte while carving the canyon...