Clean Kat or a messy VFR?

[MotoYoda]

Well, its approaching the end of the summer -- usually there are better deals on bikes this time of year.  We're also in a depression (it took them 18 months to admit when it was a recession, they'll "announce it" sooner or later), which should sadly make less buyers and lower prices (or maybe it makes the used market more competitive?).  At any rate, I'm hoping to find a deal, and get back into motorcycling.

I've been focusing on a post-'98 750 Kat, but every once in a while, a VFR shows up that's within my price range.  I'm short, and have sat on both and ridden neither, but just from sitting I fit a little better on the Kat in stock form -- I have not found a VFR with risers but I assume I would add those (risers seem to be hard to find for the Kat).  

Without going into all of the details, as an example right now for $2,900 I can have a clean low mileage (9500 miles) 2000 Katana, or for $3,500 a "tipped" on both sides low mileage 2002 VFR (12000 miles).  The VFR is scratched mostly on the upper fairing, and there are small amounts of cracked or broken plastic on both sides.

I posted this question here rather than in the Honda section, because I'm guessing the VFR lovers response.  The truth is that the Katana delivers all the performance I will ever use, and I believe is cheaper to maintain.  The only downside is that its cold blooded in the morning, but so am I.  The technological advantage of the VFR that could be interesting/useful is that the frame and suspension are so superior that they could actually be safer should some radical maneuver be necessary to avoid a collision.  

Other than the height and weight of the bike, and the distance between the seat and the bars, the other big factor for me is bar vibration.  I've sold more than one bike because it put my hands to sleep.

So, any thoughts?  Which would you do, and/or which do you think I should go for?

As a side note, while I'm procrastinating working, I found that the wheel bases are less than a half inch different, so I found two images of silver ones online, colorized them and overlayed them, as a way to compare seat-to-bar distance and riding position.  You can see that the (green) VFR has a taller seat, and the tank forces the rider a little further from the bars...  not that the Katana's front portion of the seat can be ridden for very long.  Anyway, thought I'd include that in case anyone found it interesting.

[gripnrip]

My wife had a '97 Katana (600cc, but physically same dimensions as the 750) and now rides an '06 VFR.

The Katana was great, she loved it and it was a little lower than the VFR. Seat was more comfy.

She loves the VFR though as more power, nicer looking, smoother, and handles better.

But based on a clean Kat versus a dropped/neglected VFR, I go with the minty bike everytime.

Either way great bikes.

[MotoYoda]

But based on a clean Kat versus a dropped/neglected VFR, I go with the minty bike everytime.

I know what you're saying, but I'm under the impression that mechanically (and maintenance-wise) the VFR has been cared for and is in good shape -- I'm thinking that its more random mishaps than neglect or abuse.  It seems to have had two turns of bad luck -- a person backed into it when it was parked, and once the owner forgot to put the kickstand down...  the scratches don't indicate the bike was in motion during either incident. 

So (hopefully) the comparison is between two mechanically similarly sound bikes, one with some lightly damaged plastic, one that's managed to always stay upright.  I suppose the final answer is I need to ride them both, but one is an hour and the other three hours away from my house, so that's going to be challenging.  Which is why I come here, hoping for any bit of wisdom or experience I can gather.

[MotoYoda]

At the risk of just 'thinking out loud' to myself...

I'm leaning towards the Viffer for a few reasons.  First, bar vibration puts my hands to sleep, and I've read numerous accounts that Kat's vibrate noticeably (one old foreign motorcycle mag article I found online claimed that the engine smooths out at higher revs, and attributed that to its original design as a "race" engine (GSXR-derived) designed and internally balanced to spend most of its time at higher revs - ???).  Secondly, there is a good chance I could have this bike for a long time, so starting out with a bike with current technology seems more reasonable.  

Last but not least, I live on a short dead-end street that intersects with a very busy street, near a large intersection... relevance?  All accounts say that the Kat is cold blooded, and can hesitate or even cut out if you open the throttle hard when its cold.  While I don't mind warming up a bike, 200 yards from my house I have to pull out with confidence into traffic -- I'll have enough to think about without having to worry about the bike not responding crisply (I regularly light up the tires on my Yaris just trying to weave a left turn into moving traffic.  It's not like that all day long, but it is frequently enough.).

I do like the low cost maintenance, simplicity, and parts (used and new) availability of the Kat, but in terms of what I perceive I could live with in the long term, it might not be the best bet for me.

I was out of town the end of last week, and the owner of the VFR I'm interested in is out of town the beginning of next week, but I hope to see it Wednesday.  We'll see.

[Flightar]

Provided the damage to the VFR is superficial it is hands down the better bike in all situations. That said, if the VFR has a lot of damage or expensive damage then the Katana is the better buy provided it is very clean.

[CosmicCowboy]

Go for the modern bike.

[2RR2NV]

just rereading and i'd go for the VFR. but that's just me cause i will be looking for a used VFR and not really caring about plastics cause i'm gonna take a shot at doing my own paint scheme. if the damage is all superficial, i'd jump on it like a fat kid on a cupcake.

[Kat-Rider]

The Kat has a buzz between 4-5k.  Other than that it is (should be) smooth.  It has a 7500 mile maint schedule (valve adjust/carb synch) so if it buzzing that service can clean that up.
The Suzuki shop I go to said the Kat 750 oil cooled motor is about the most rock solid reliable one Suzuki made.  If you take care of it they last forever.  I have almost 25k on my Kat in 2 years with no issues.
I think the price is a little high for the Kat.  With them being 'older tech' the price on them is pretty low.  I would offer around 2k for an 8 year old clean one.
As far as the Kat being cold natured...I start it in the morning, put on my jacket and helmet and select my iTunes play list.  At that point it is good to go.  In winter when I ride (40's) I will let it idle while I have a morning smoke.  3 or 4 minutes at idle is fine to warm it up.

The Kat's are heavy, but so is the VFR.  
I like the VFR, but have never ridden one, so I can not say much about it.

[DCLXVI]

I recently had an opportunity to buy an 02 vfr. I currently have an 02 Bandit which is very similar to the Kat. I decided to stay with the Bandit because of easy of maintenance. Valve adj are < 2 hours, maybey a little longer with the Kat due to bodywork. The motor and tranny are rock solid and if you travel far from home, for me easy of working on the bike is paramount. I have a complete set of tools at home but when I'm away from home you would be surprised at how much you can do with that tool kit under tha seat. One look behind the fairings on the vfr had me thinking I would not be doing any roadside repairs should the need arise. I'm not trashing the vfr but for me simple is better. Good luck with your choice.  

[MotoYoda]

I haven't bought anything yet, I keep getting caught up with work and losing track of them.  So the primary bikes that I was looking at before are gone, and others have taken their place.  I'm still focused on either a Kat or a VFR, and now that the one scratched up VFR is gone, the overall the trend is towards newer lower miles Kats, and older higher miles VFRs, as one would expect.  I don't live in a very affluent area, so there really aren't many VFR's around, and most of the Kat's are older and have seen some abuse.  Currently the best deals are in (or around) cities two to six hours away.

Since this is still all theoretical, I was leaning heavily towards the VFR, but now I'm swinging the other way.  So many factors.  I don't have a garage, and I don't work on bikes myself I use mechanics (for anything beyond an oil change, which I'll do myself).  I'm thinking a VFR is just too nice a bike to subject to an Oregon winter just under a bike cover.  It's sort of a crime.  I'm also thinking that Kat would be less expensive to have worked on, and easier to find a mechanic competent enough to handle it.  So...  I'm leaning Kat now. 

I'm really surprised there aren't more deals out there.  I'm trying to be patient and wait them out, because there are a lot of ads that appear week after week, the seller is holding out for the right buyer, and I'm holding out for them to give up and come down on their price.  I'm not trying to get something for nothing, I'm just aiming for KBB private party price (since that's not actually published, something about half way between trade-in and retail).  It's hard to tell these days what's reasonable and what the market will bare.  I can understand folks who still owe on their bikes holding out to try and get what they owe - even if its more than its worth - but I think the rest are just unrealistic.  Time will tell.

[JamesG]

The Kanotuna is the practical choice, but the VFR is that old girlfriend that you'll wish you still had. Either way you are screwed.  

Keep in mind that there are option "C"s out there.  Good condition YZF600Rs are out there in your price range.  Ergos are as good as either bike, more than enough power for the street, with good fully adjustable suspension to boot. ZZR600s, and maybe the odd deal on a Sprint are also on the table. Bandits?

[MotoYoda]

The Kanotuna is the practical choice, but the VFR is that old girlfriend that you'll wish you still had. Either way you are screwed.  Lol

LOL    At 44 years old, I try not to think about all the old girlfriends I wish I still had...  

Keep in mind that there are option "C"s out there.  Good condition YZF600Rs are out there in your price range.  Ergos are as good as either bike, more than enough power for the street, with good fully adjustable suspension to boot. ZZR600s, and maybe the odd deal on a Sprint are also on the table. Bandits?

True enough.
YZF600R -- wish I could find one, have only seen one and they were asking $4,800 (about $1k north of my outer limit)
ZZR600 -- the only ones I've seen have been trashed by kids
Sprint -- post-'05's have been too expensive, but that's a #1 dream bike.  I "sat on" a 95 and test rode (I think it was) a 99.  Both seemed heavy, and bulky
Bandits -- I test rode an '00 a few years ago (ended out buying an FZ1 at that time).  It reminded me of my old FJ1200, which is to say a great sport-touring bike for distances, but a bit much for me around town, so not a great bike if I can only have one (which is currently my situation).

I guess I'm picky.  SV650's are too light, Bandit 1200's too heavy.  I really like 750's.  Right now the "old girlfriend I wish I still had" would be my '05 Kawasaki Z750S.  

My reference to 'six hours away' before was Seattle, there seem to be a lot of good deals up there.  If I knew exactly what I wanted, I could probably find one up there, fly up and ride it back, make an adventure of it.  But its a long way to go for a six hour test ride home -- so it would have to be a bike I'd ridden before.

Thanks for the feedback --  

[MotoYoda]

Well, in case anyone is out there, I'll give a little update.  I finally had a short test ride on a Katana 750.  It was a 2001 with pretty high miles, in the mid-30's, but one owner, well kept and cared for.  It was in way better shape than several I've seen that had half the miles. (asking $1,900)

My first impressions were that the steering is slow and heavy, especially at slow speeds.  I was also not impressed with how much pressure the brakes required (the owner is a paramedic and kept the brakes in top shape, so I'm pretty sure this was their nature, not a result of poor maintenance).  The riding position was fine, the vibration in the bars was no problem, it was comfortable overall.  I never took it above 6k rpm, but the mid-range was sufficient.  

I have to say, its making me rethink everything.  With a $3,500 budget and limited used bike availability in my area, I think I'm going to have to settle in and just wait for the right bike.  I'm thinking its not going to be a VFR or a Katana, so I guess this chapter is over.  I guess that made for one boring story...    sorry about that!  

[geedavell]

If you have to, save a little more money and buy a clean VFR.I had an 2002 and loved it. Only sold it to buy a Busa. I've ridden friends bikes ( both the 650 and 750) The katanas are freaking dogs.You cant beat the fuel injection on the VFR. sounds great with a yosi pipe too