Aprilia RSV4 or BMW S1000RR?

[EricJ]

Ok, so both bikes are slated to be on NA shores later this year.  Both bikes are running in their 1st season of World Superbike,  only the Aprillia has won yet.   Great expectations for both await.

If you were in the market, what you you rather have?

For me, it's obvious.  Give me BLS option package!  

Eric

[Busy Little Whiner]

BMW S1000RR is a conventional I4 designed to capture 10% of the status quo market share...

Aprilia RSV4 was designed to challenge the old status quo with a race bred V4...

[2RR2NV]

RSV BABY!!  same reason as BLS. wohooo...can i have one?  

[kevin_stevens]

The BMW has an electronics package unlike anything that's been put on a street bike before.  It's offering the most HP ever in a liter bike, along with the ability to help the rider use it effectively.

I like the Aprilia - who wouldn't?  But to me there's much less ground-breaking about it, and I wouldn't own one just because of the dealership network thing.  I'm totally on the opposite side from Larry (as usual).  Aprilia is same-old/same-old, BMW is the next step forward.  I doubt the Japanese bikes are all going to V-4s, but I'll bet within three years they all have some form of traction/wheelie control and ABS available on their SS bikes.

KeS

[Busy Little Whiner]

The BMW has an electronics package unlike anything that's been put on a street bike before.  It's offering the most HP ever in a liter bike, along with the ability to help the rider use it effectively.

I like the Aprilia - who wouldn't?  But to me there's much less ground-breaking about it, and I wouldn't own one just because of the dealership network thing.  I'm totally on the opposite side from Larry (as usual).  Aprilia is same-old/same-old, BMW is the next step forward.  I doubt the Japanese bikes are all going to V-4s, but I'll bet within three years they all have some form of traction/wheelie control and ABS available on their SS bikes.

KeS

BMW's cammy hit I4 needs an electronics package unlike anything that's been put on a street to tame
the HP whereas the V4s linear power delivery is naturally helping the rider use it effectively...

For BMW to stay competitive in the market and on the track they will have copy Yamaha "virtual V4"...  

[atypical1]

Nice try Larry but the RSV4 has traction control too. Electronics are the future of sportbikes regardless of configuration.

Oh, there's no such thing as a "virtual" V4 and it's lame for anyone to make a claim as such. Regardless of firing order the bike is an I4.

james

[miles]

I have to echo Kevin's comments.  The Aprilia is a nice iteration of an evolutionary dead-end in motorcycles.  Well made, but ultimately doomed to obsolescence.

[Busy Little Whiner]

Nice try Larry but the RSV4 has traction control too. Electronics are the future of sportbikes regardless of configuration.

Oh, there's no such thing as a "virtual" V4 and it's lame for anyone to make a claim as such. Regardless of firing order the bike is an I4.

james

True the RSV4 has traction control... the difference being that a linear powerband requires less TC help
than a cammy hit powerband...

True Yamaha's "Virtual V4" is still an I4 and the only way to improve it is with a real V4 but the press
coined the "virtual V4" saying and not anyone here in STN...

Quote respected MotoGP journalist Michael Scott:

"How had he managed to defeat not only Biaggi, but also Gibernau in
third? The Yamaha was the underdog, very much the junior to the V5
Honda. The answer lay in the exhaust note. Rossi's bike growled rather
than howled. The upgrade Yamaha had promised their new rider ran deep.
It was nothing more than a revival of the same sort of Big Bang
principal that had served Honda so well in 1992. In the modern
context, it turned an in-line engine into a virtual V4. Most
importantly, it made the bike more friendly to the rider, kinder to
the tyres and easier to ride to the limit. During the season, Suzuki,
Ducati and Proton would follow on with revised "Big Bang" or "Long
Bang" firing intervals of their own. Kawasaki were the only exception,
for Honda's V5 had this characteristic built in."


2009 Bike Magazine



Quote 2009 motorcycle.com:

"You might not yet know what a cross-plane crankshaft is, but you will.
It’s a link to Valentino Rossi’s MotoGP bike, and it’s the biggest
advancement in literbike engine design in years."

"This new crankshaft arrangement is part of Yamaha’s latest YZF-R1, a
literbike we tested last week at the Eastern Creek circuit in
Australia, and it’s a design not seen in any previous production
motorcycle."

"The 998cc engine’s distinct sound is the obvious clue that it’s
something special - it’s akin to a V-Four with a deep, purposeful note
that seems a little bit angry. But it’s in the way the motor generates
power that sets it apart from its competition. Gone is the peaky
powerband of the previous motor, and in its place is the most
tractable four-cylinder literbike yet built."

"The newly enhanced midrange is welcome, but more than that is the feel
of a direct connection between the throttle and rear tire. In most
literbikes, a rider is acutely aware of the possibility of being
high-sided to the moon if the throttle is applied injudiciously. With
the R1, even a moderately skilled rider can safely drift the rear tire
on corner exits."
   

[Busy Little Whiner]

I have to echo Kevin's comments.  The Aprilia is a nice iteration of an evolutionary dead-end in motorcycles.  Well made, but ultimately doomed to obsolescence.

Look around Miles... V4s are on the rise... either real or virtual... there could be one in your future as well...

[DosEquis00]

Look around Miles... V4s are on the rise... either real or virtual... there could be one in your future as well...

+1 as the V4 is the perfect motorcycle engine.

[miles]

Look around Miles... V4s are on the rise... either real or virtual... there could be one in your future as well...

One new model in this decade hardly makes them "on the rise".

[atypical1]

Look around Miles... V4s are on the rise... either real or virtual... there could be one in your future as well...

Regardless of what the press says there is no such thing as a virtual V4. It's either a V4 or it's not. Jeebus, that's like having a virtual girlfriend or something. Maybe the ultimate motor is an I4 with a modified firing order.



james

[Busy Little Whiner]

Regardless of what the press says there is no such thing as a virtual V4. It's either a V4 or it's not. Jeebus, that's like having a virtual girlfriend or something. Maybe the ultimate motor is an I4 with a modified firing order.
james

You're right... a virtual V4 is like having a virtual girlfriend... much better to have a real one... thats why
Yamaha will someday ante up a real V4 for racing...

[2006FJR]

I could care less which one is .00001 seconds faster. I would buy the BMW.  

[2RR2NV]

Look around Miles... V4s are on the rise... either real or virtual... there could be one in your future as well...

ME TOO, ME TOO, ME TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!  soon. hopefully sooner than i think. i so want my VFR back!

[MisterSmooth]

I could care less which one is .00001 seconds faster. I would buy the BMW.  

I couldn't care less which one is 0.00001 seconds faster, either.  I can't make either of these bikes perform anywhere near their capabilities.  But only one of the two gets me emotionally, which is where bikes like these play their high cards.


The BMW is very nice, and I bet is a better streetbike (just more tractable in general--the RSV is a race bike with lights).


But I'd buy the RSV4 every time.    The Aprilia is the RC30 of its time.  Ten years from now the BMW will be just another inline four sportbike and the Aprilia will still be special.  

[zam70]

One new model in this decade hardly makes them "on the rise".

You forget the DesmoRR ?

I find it interesting that BMW went conventional in most of the mechanical aspects of the bike then gave the engine MONDO power just to choke it back with advanced electronic control of well, everything...odd I thought.  
What's the point of all the power if it is never/rarely allowed to be unleashed and then, only with the permission of the electronics?  
The electronics and technology although very impressive, I think is to intrusive.
Then there's the reliability/trust in the electronics as well...
AND - The BMW 1000RR is just plain ugly IMO.  
Now this is BMW beauty...


The Aprilia, in typical Italian/Aprilia fashion is gorgeous

Then again, what I know - I like the Speed triple

[vchengap]

Since I got a VFR, I've really come to appreciate V4s.  Even thought they're a PITA to work on.  I'd go with the Aprilia on this one.

[atypical1]

What's the point of all the power if it is never/rarely allowed to be unleashed and then, only with the permission of the electronics?  
The electronics and technology although very impressive, I think is to intrusive.

Electronics are on the RSV4 too. It comes with traction control and that's going to be an ever increasing feature on all sport bikes in the very near future. Mark my words, in 5 or 10 years every sport bike is going to come with traction control, ABS, etc. Like it or hate it, it's going to be our reality.

james

[miles]

You forget the DesmoRR ?

No, I haven't forgotten it.  In fact, I've ridden one on a number of occasions.  I didn't count it because of its very limited production numbers, and the fact that it costs $75k putting it out of the realm of real-world bike.


As far as the electronics on the BMW being intrusive, that isn't what I hear from those that have ridden the bike.  The traction control is integrated into the fly-by-wire throttle system, so it is unobtrusive and doesn't limit the power in any way except to smooth out the delivery.  It has multiple modes, too, so you can set how much you want (or don't want).  

[garry]

I would choose the RSV4 over the BMW. Just because it's Italian, more exotic, and I've never owned a V4 before.

[atypical1]

I'd choose the BMW for the sole reason that I stand a fighting chance of fitting on the bike. V-4 or not, you ever see Biaggi on the bike? He makes the bike look normal size and he's quite diminutive. I'd just look silly on it.

james

[kevin_stevens]

I'd choose the BMW for the sole reason that I stand a fighting chance of fitting on the bike. V-4 or not, you ever see Biaggi on the bike? He makes the bike look normal size and he's quite diminutive. I'd just look silly on it.

james

Have you sat on a RR?  There will be a demo bike back down first weekend of Sep.

KeS

[MisterSmooth]

I sat on an RR at Laguna in July.  It was actually pretty comfortable for a sportbike.

But James has a point about how small the Aprilia is.   The HP2 Sport would definitely be a better fit than either the RSV4 or 1000RR for someone over six feet tall.

They had an HP2 Sport in the tent at Laguna as well.  That is a gorgeous, exotic bike.  

[atypical1]

Have you sat on a RR?  There will be a demo bike back down first weekend of Sep.

KeS

No, is it just as small? I'm not really in the market for a litre super sport though.

I agree with Mister Smooth in that the HP2 Sport would probably be a better fit for me anyway. And it would suit my riding style better.

james

[Busy Little Whiner]

No, I haven't forgotten it.  In fact, I've ridden one on a number of occasions.  I didn't count it because of its very limited production numbers, and the fact that it costs $75k putting it out of the realm of real-world bike.

That only puts it out of Mile's World... in the real world the D16RR sold out in the first run and Ducati is
working on the second run...  

[kevin_stevens]

No, is it just as small? I'm not really in the market for a litre super sport though.

I agree with Mister Smooth in that the HP2 Sport would probably be a better fit for me anyway. And it would suit my riding style better.

james

It's small, but not tiny by any means.  I think of it as about like the current CBR.

KeS

[llew_x]

They're both very cool bikes with their own unique features. What I find intriqueing about the BMW though is that pretty much every BMW i've ever managed to get my ass on has felt damn near perfect - for me - comfort. I'd be curious to see how the S100RR would feel, not that I'd be expecting any kind of comfort but just curious none the less.

You all hear a sound clip of the RSV4 though?

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.motostar.co.za/Portals/7/RSV4_Factory_01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.motostar.co.za/LinkClick.aspx%3Flink%3D311%26tabid%3D200%26mid%3D612&usg=__lsEpwwsL-PJZ22A78RbRXsgTqR4=&h=600&w=721&sz=144&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=yBJdbGclRTO2aM:&tbnh=117&tbnw=140&prev=/images%3Fq%3DRSV4%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den

I couldn't imagine NOT choosing the RSV4

[steve.m]

 
What's the point of all the power if it is never/rarely allowed to be unleashed and then, only with the permission of the electronics?  
The electronics and technology although very impressive, I think is to intrusive.

R&T said the same thing of the new M5 when it was released a few years ago.  What's the point in all this power if you limit it with electronics.  Well the beauty of BMW is they know people dont want to do that, so they came up with "launch control" on the M.  It sorts everything out to give a perfect off the line launch every time.  It allows the tires to spool just a little.  I assume the same guy was brought in to keep the new beemer from flipping the rider off the bike and provide near perfect acceleration.  

besides, i know we're all a bunch of rossi's, but near 200HP is NOT for the street and 90% of riders here couldn't hack the power of that machine anyway.  I know the 145 or so my cbr made scared the $shit out of me more than once.  Proof of this lies in most posters in this thread saying they'd want the V4 aprillia.  It's easier to ride.  BMW just took a bunch of power and made it accessible to the rest of us.  I applaud them for that.

[zam70]

But why make the power to begin with - because they can I guess (im fickle like that)...
I would rather ride a usable, balanced bike than one that has to be wrangled by electronics to make it "safe"...but that's just me.
BMW is the leader in technological developement (in bikes and cars) but, much like cars (the field I work in) I think technology is applied simply because it can be not because it should be.  I mean seriously, do we really need automatic wipers, auto parking, eleventyseven airbags etc??  In the end, alot of the tech applied simply drives prices up.
Wanna talk about amazing - the price that BMW is selling that bike at is amazing (inexpensive).  Nice to see BMW get serious about a super bike.  I'm sure after some growing pains, they will run with the best of them.

[Busy Little Whiner]

I know the 145 or so my cbr made scared the $shit out of me more than once.  

You're right... cammy hit I4s don't inspire much confidence... whereas V4s do... even with 200HP...

[kevin_stevens]

besides, i know we're all a bunch of rossi's, but near 200HP is NOT for the street and 90% of riders here couldn't hack the power of that machine anyway.  I know the 145 or so my cbr made scared the $shit out of me more than once.  Proof of this lies in most posters in this thread saying they'd want the V4 aprillia.  It's easier to ride.  BMW just took a bunch of power and made it accessible to the rest of us.  I applaud them for that.

I still get a kick out of the fact that the "rain" mode restricts the bike to *only* 150HP.  

KeS

[steve.m]

But why make the power to begin with - because they can I guess (im fickle like that)...
I would rather ride a usable, balanced bike than one that has to be wrangled by electronics to make it "safe"...but that's just me.
BMW is the leader in technological developement (in bikes and cars) but, much like cars (the field I work in) I think technology is applied simply because it can be not because it should be.  I mean seriously, do we really need automatic wipers, auto parking, eleventyseven airbags etc??  In the end, alot of the tech applied simply drives prices up.
Wanna talk about amazing - the price that BMW is selling that bike at is amazing (inexpensive).  Nice to see BMW get serious about a super bike.  I'm sure after some growing pains, they will run with the best of them.

I'll take a clutch over traction control any day, more fun to drive plus better control of the vehicle.

BMW is all about expensive gizmo's.  Didn't you see the 90's bond movies?

[atypical1]

I'll take a clutch over traction control any day, more fun to drive plus better control of the vehicle.

BMW is all about expensive gizmo's.  Didn't you see the 90's bond movies?

But both bikes have expensive gizmos. Would you take neither?


james

[UFO]

Where's the RSV4 Tuono option?  I'd seriously hit that shit.

[MisterSmooth]

...do we really need automatic wipers, auto parking, eleventyseven airbags etc??  In the end, alot of the tech applied simply drives prices up...

Modern cars are overloaded with features that no one uses in day to day driving.   But so are, say, washing machines.  Take a look at the washers lined up at your local Home Depot.  The control panels look like you're piloting a modern airliner.

I don't feel the need to adjust the spin cycle on our clothes washer for five different spin speeds, so when we recently bought a new washer/dryer set we bought Bosch because there are four buttons total.  Often simple and robust is way better than needlessly complicated.

[zam70]

agree with that.
My washer/dryer is also of the simplistic/basic type...one knob on each

[kevin_stevens]

I'll take a clutch over traction control any day, more fun to drive plus better control of the vehicle.

BMW is all about expensive gizmo's.  Didn't you see the 90's bond movies?

The two controls aren't mutually exclusive.  Or did you want a clutch pedal for each wheel?

I was once exercising my "better control of the vehicle *" in a 1999 Corvette when I spun the car off of Mountain Springs' track and about a hundred feet into the desert.  We weren't able to recover the car until someone had the bright idea of turning the traction control on, at which point we were able to drive it right on out.

(* It was "better control", too.  I spun the car that run, but for the event I won the superstock class outright - on street tires vs DOT race radials.)

Electronics allow controls to be applied in more specific ways and conditions than the operating mechanisms.  To the "just make a less powerful bike" point, the reality is that under some conditions; you, me, and the cute girl next door *can* use 200HP.  In a much greater number of conditions, we can use 85 ft-lbs of torque at 9K rpm.  And in a whole BUNCH of cases we can use all the torque we can get, at whatever rpm.  (This is why God loves CVTs.)

But to make "all the torque we can get", or "all the brakes we can get", the reality is that in a lot of OTHER circumstances (rain is an obvious common case), such a machine will be very hard for a normal rider to control.  It may be very hard for an exceptional rider to control.

That's why fly-by-wire was invented for jets.  To make them responsive enough for ultimate dogfighting, they were so unstable that the best fighter jocks couldn't fly them straight and level for more than a few seconds without computer assist.  And if they *could*, they wouldn't WANT to, because they had more important things to think about like not getting killed.

So yes, you can drive the wheels off a Miata without needing traction control (although stability control is nice with the short wheelbase).  But if you want to race Corvettes in the rain, you may NEED those electronic gizmos acting on a per-wheel basis - and if they work and are legal, you bet your ass the RACERS will kill for them.  Or, to bring it back to bikes, you can take an engine performance envelope that everyone can handle - say a Ninja 250 (though YouTube will show you THAT is even excessive), and you don't need the fancy gizmos.  But if you are trying to build an ultimate performance vehicle - a Corvette or an S1000RR - you're trying to make that performance envelope as big and as round as possible.  To do that, eventually you have to take the parameters, like the jet, outside what humans - certainly normal humans - can handle.  Then you refine it with electronics to make it usable.

That's what BMW is doing.  Instead of trying to make the engine perfectly responsive and tractable throughout its performance envelope, they're saying "Screw it.  You engine guys go make horsepower and we'll control wheelspin with the fly-by-wire.  You chassis guys go make the bike turn, and we'll control the wheelies.  You brake guys go make the thing stop as hard as you can, and we'll modulate on less-than-perfect surfaces."

You may not agree with the approach, but it's a perfectly legitimate one.  Just saying "Well, I want to have *control* over everything on the bike, that's what riding a bike MEANS!", is missing the point.  You can certainly say that - absolutely reasonable position - but then this bike, and really all the SS bikes, should be irrelevant to you; because they're not about an immersive control experience, they're about building the biggest performance envelope possible.  And seriouslly - didn't you lost that battle for control back when they took the manual ignition advance away from you?

KeS

[kevin_stevens]

Where's the RSV4 Tuono option?  I'd seriously hit that shit.

Expected to be announced next year, according to the Euro magazines.

KeS

[miles]

That only puts it out of Mile's World... in the real world the D16RR sold out in the first run and Ducati is
working on the second run...  

No, it didn't and no, they are not.  The "second run" is that Ducati is making available the unsold stock that had been sitting at dealerships.  Basically they are taking back into stock the floor bikes that have been taking up space at various shops, and putting them back into the market.  Also, they'd made a bunch of extra parts but not originally built them into bikes, and they assembled a few bikes from the overage.

[steve.m]

Dude, you're preaching to the choir.  I'm an engineer, and i Know all these things, but even the most perfect traction control system isn't ever perfect.  They'll put the reins on potent track machines, 2 or 4 wheeled, but we're talking about a 200 hp street legal machine.  Yes, I think it needs those controls, but NOBODY needs 200HP on a bike to go 80 on the interstate and certainly not in the twisties posted at 30 MPH.  As for traction control... A buddy of mine lost a volvo s60 with awd and "traction control" to a guard rail in VT.  Never done anything like that with a POS clutched car because I've taken advanced driving courses for skid management.  a properly trained person can control whatever vehicle they're in, it's why drifters put up better lap times, because "they" are in control, not a computer.  You can't compare a vette to a miata, you're talking T-ball and national league with that one.  Even the best drivers gripe about the Z06's power.  When a car's that light and has that much power, putting it down on the pavement gets tricky.  anyone who can't drive a miata deserves the rainbow sticker that's on the bumper slapped square across their forehead.  I'll take my 400 cubic inches of american muscle sitting in my garage any day of the week.  Handling is shite, but hey, they appeal of classic cars is undeniable.  unless you're a pinko commie bastard!!

I'm an engineer and appreciate the tech BMW is putting out there.  Is it needed?  No.  Is it cool?  yes!  and that's why it'll sell.  That's all I was saying about power on the street.  It's not needed.  Been riding a HD for a while now, top end disappeared but it's a hell of a good time twisting the throttle down low.  Seriously considering a ulysses as my next choice of transportation.  I choose midrange torque over HP anyday on the street.  Either of these machines would be a blast on the track though.

I picked the BMW.  As I said, I appreciate what they're doing, but it's definitely over the top.

[Busy Little Whiner]

No, it didn't and no, they are not.  The "second run" is that Ducati is making available the unsold stock that had been sitting at dealerships.  Basically they are taking back into stock the floor bikes that have been taking up space at various shops, and putting them back into the market.  Also, they'd made a bunch of extra parts but not originally built them into bikes, and they assembled a few bikes from the overage.

Quote Ducati
"Desmosedici RR – a limited, numbered production run of only 1500 machines that sold out before the bikes were built."

Ducati made 1500 Desmosedicis for public purchase. The bike was launched at the 2006 Italian MotoGP
event. The entire 500 units for the United States sold out in five hours... 5 hours Miles... did you forget
to order yours???

[miles]

Well, they didn't actually sell out.  A lot of those orders were for floor bikes, and a lot of those dealers never actually moved them.  That's how it's still possible to get a brand new D16 with a serial number lower than 1501.

As much as I enjoyed riding the bike, I wouldn't have ordered one even if I had the cash with which to do so.  It's sexy, sure, but the back seat is brutally hot and uncomfortable, and my wife'd never go for that.

[Orson]

The Aprilia is alluring, however, after reading in the Pit Row section that a V4 ended Stoner's career, I'll have to shelve any plans.

[atypical1]

Here's another view of the mighty V4 D16RR



Yes, that's oil pouring out of the bike.

james

[miles]

Here's another view of the mighty V4 D16RR



Yes, that's oil pouring out of the bike.

james

Picture didn't come through.

[atypical1]

Picture didn't come through.

Thanks, fixed the pic.

Don't get me wrong, I love that bike but Larry's gotta give it a rest  

james

[Busy Little Whiner]

The Aprilia is alluring, however, after reading in the Pit Row section that a V4 ended Stoner's career, I'll have to shelve any plans.

First Orson must start a racing career in order to shelve one...

[Busy Little Whiner]

Yes, that's oil pouring out of the bike.
james

Quick... call a Duc Doc... that poor bike is bleeding to death...

[kevin_stevens]

Quote Ducati
"Desmosedici RR – a limited, numbered production run of only 1500 machines that sold out before the bikes were built."

Ducati made 1500 Desmosedicis for public purchase. The bike was launched at the 2006 Italian MotoGP
event. The entire 500 units for the United States sold out in five hours... 5 hours Miles... did you forget
to order yours???

This thread doesn't have Ducati in the title, and if those bikes are sold out, they're not even in the discussion anyway.  Please take this conversation somewhere else.

KeS

[Busy Little Whiner]

This thread doesn't have Ducati in the title, and if those bikes are sold out, they're not even in the discussion anyway.  Please take this conversation somewhere else.

KeS

I didn't bring up the Ducati's stunning all conquering V4... it's here on it's popularity alone... perhaps
because its more pleasing to look at than BMW's silly dual personality styling... as if each side of the bike
had it's own designer and they never confided in one another...    

[2RR2NV]

can't we all just get along?

but that Duc looks sweet and i'll stick with the Aprilia

[jsanford]

Honestly, I do not know how I'd answer this poll.  I'd love an RSV; like a cat on the side of my bike. Ditto the 1000RR, like a shark gill on the side of my bike.

Haven't seen the BMW in person yet.

[Jeremy Z]

Between those two, I'd rather have the BMW. I assume it is the one pictured above with the shaft drive and boxer twin.

[zam70]

nope - the BMW s1000RR is an I4 and looks like this:

[falconati]

The Desmo has the best looks no doubt, but when you consider the price difference, we're really in a whole other ballpark.  So, between the two original choices, I'd go with the Aprilia for the engine alone.  I love BMWs and I think the S1000RR is a great bike, but I want that visceral hum that you can only get from a V4 configuration

[Busy Little Whiner]

nope - the BMW s1000RR is an I4 and looks like this:

The designer model it after his kitty...

[swanny]

I saw both bikes at their N. American debut's in May at Miller.   I couldn't sit on the RSV4 but it was stunning.  The S1K aesthetics take some getting used to but fit well.  I'm getting the S1K.  Kinda stuck on the Beemers...

[MisterSmooth]

I saw both bikes at their N. American debut's in May at Miller.   I couldn't sit on the RSV4 but it was stunning.  The S1K aesthetics take some getting used to but fit well.  I'm getting the S1K.  Kinda stuck on the Beemers...

An R75, an R1100S and an S1000?  Nice stable, mate!