Hello, and some questions

[Tango Alpha]

Hi! Great site you have here. Been lurking for a while, and soaking up the knowledge, thank you very much.

I am totally new to riding, and looking for my first bike. First, a little about myself.

I'm 5'9" and 160 lbs. 35 years old, a father and a husband. Lived in Michigan all my life. I'm a firefighter, hunter, and competition shooter. Been attracted to bikes since I was a kid, but for a variety of reasons, I've never given them a go. Honestly, when I was younger, I was crazy (like most) and maybe now is the *right* time for me to do this.

I know what I want and (perhaps more importantly) what I don't want. I've already got my eye on two bikes, but I'm worried maybe they're not the best first bikes (don't laugh, but mebbe they're overpowered?). They are the Suzi GSX650F, and the Yam FZ6R.

I have friends that own Harleys, wear leather vests and chaps, but I'm not that kinda person. I also have friends that ride liter bikes (my cousin was a bike mechanic in T-O for years, loved racing), but I'm not after a thrill ride. I really like the Gold Wings and Honda's sport tourers, but the price tag... I am not interested in wheelies or dressing like I'm a track rider. Aesthetics mean nothing, I'm after a quality ride.

I know a guy that owns a KLR650, another that owns a Versys, and those two got me interested. The comfortable upright seating and go-anywhere capability is intriguing. However, I seriously doubt I'll ride a trail or even a dirt road with my first bike (mebbe later). I will, hopefully, ride a lot, and even attempt some long distance riding as soon as I feel capable, as many of my friends are a good 2 - 4 hour drive from me. In fact, I relish the thought of being able to ride those long distances, rather than drive them. Although, who knows, mebbe the first time someone cuts me off or a semi blows by me in the opposite direction, and I won't feel the same way, LOL.

NO-WANTS:

Anything over 600 - 650 cc. I'm not looking for an adrenalin rush.
Anything difficult to ride, not really interested in leaning far forward for hours on end.
A bike that will be scary to ride on highways or around Michigan's many asteroid craters (aka potholes).
Basically, anything overly aggressive.
Poor quality.

WANTS:

A more upright and comfortable seating position.
Something solid in rain and on questionable roads.
A good bike for around town fun, while also able to haul my ass long distances on busy freeways and back road highways.
Short distance 2up riding.
Long range over pure horse power.
Good quality, but not a wallet breaker, let's keep this around $7k usd or less, preferably new or slightly used.

So, again, I'm looking at the GSX650F and the FZ6R. I actually was looking a bit at the GSX500F too, and wondering if maybe that would be a better beginner bike. I hope to ride even during the fall and spring, so I'm interested in the GSX650F because I understand it has a higher powered electrical system good for heated hand grips and chest warmers. I also like my gadgets: ham radios, ipods, cell phones, laptops, Garmins, etc. (Obviously, I can't run ALL those on the bike, just giving you a look into my personality).

Spare the technical stuff, I've read the literature and the reviews in the bike mags. They're out to sell, and they've made it clear that these bikes are marketed for beginners. What I'm after is real knowledge from folks like yourselves that repeatedly see newbies learn the art. My friends all say I should get AT LEAST an 800, and anything less is going to be underpowered on hills and have NO passing power, but I ain't buying that. Most of them started out on much less powered bikes, and I think they've forgotten that. I know they're all saying to themselves, "WOW, the bike I have now is WAY cooler than the one I started out on, don't make the same mistake as me, go right for the BEST." Well, no thanks. I think I'll crawl, then walk, THEN run.

So, anyone here learn on any of the a fore mentioned bikes, or have any advice?

Cheers,

Tony

[BCinMD]

Hi Tony and welcome to the madness.  I've only been at this a few months myself (although I've had my motorcycle license for a few years)...but I've read probably hundreds of similar posts by new riders on the various forums.

First, the usual advice is to skip the new bike showroom and head straight to craigslist or cycletrader for your first bike.  It is often given advice that your first bike is not your last bike...and you don't want to drop $7000+ on a new bike only to find out it's not exactly what you wanted, or it's not comfortable for you, etc.  The other message you will get is that you are very likely to drop your first bike, and believe me, it's much better to drop an older 'seasoned' motorcycle than a shiny new one.  FWIW, I've already dropped my bike once in the garage - scraped up the clutch lever but I didn't care...because the bike is 13 years old and already had a few scratches.  Lastly, buying a cheaper used bike gives you more money to spend on safety gear.  Good gear (helmet, jacket, pants, boots, gloves) will run you $700 on up, so keep that in mind.  Buy a cheap used starter bike (Ninja 250, Ninja 500, GSF500) and sell it in a year for what you paid, then buy what you *really* want.

If you are set on buying new, I would steer clear from bikes with a lot of plastic (like that GSX650F).  It is by all accounts a terrific motorcycle, but that bike in particular is very heavy at ~535lbs - so tipping it over is even more likely and will break a lot of expensive bits.  That weight will also result in a steeper learning curve for you.  Stick to a lighter 'naked' bike - something without all the fairings (Kawasaki ER6n comes to mind.)

Second, have you taken the MSF Basic Rider Course?  If not, sign up for one as soon as possible.  You will learn a lot, and also help you decide what kind of bike you would like.  You may like the looks of that FZ6R, but you may find out that it just doesn't 'fit' you (although at your height and weight, I suspect it would be fine.)

You will read a lot of posts giving you conflicting info - e.g. "NEVER start on anything larger than a 250 or a 500" - that is generally good advice, but it doesn't tell the whole story.  Many bikes with larger displacements are perfectly fine for beginners (I ride a 750cc Honda Nighthawk) - it all depends on the specific bike, but definitely stay away from the race replica sportbikes - the GSXR, R6, CBRR, etc...those are NOT beginner bikes.

Good luck!

[Zerosum]

Hey Tony.   I think you're generally on the right track... you see the Harley "thing" for what it is, and you know you don't want to squid it up on a 1000cc supersport.    

One thing you might not be aware of is that pretty much ANY bike in the 600+ range is going to feel fast to you.  So don't get this idea in your head that you're "settling" or "compromising."  

All of the bikes you listed seem fine for a mature novice to begin on.  The only thing that really stands out to me is that they're all NEW.  Like BC said, starting on a beater has its advantages.  I started on a 20 year old 400cc Yamaha that set me back a whopping $900.  There are tons of bikes from the 90s that would make great, inexpensive starters.  Ride it for a year or so, get all the "inadverent abuse" out of your system, then get something newer.

If you're dead-set on getting a newer bike, you might also want to check out the Suzuki V-Strom 650.  It matches up well with the "qualifications" you listed.  It handles potholes and uneaven pavement very well, has decent power, and tons of room.

[PirateT7]

where ya' at, Tony (fill out your "Forum Profile Information" here and we'll be able to tell)?

[DNA]

Tony - welcome.

As others said - buy a used bike - preferable one without a lot of plastics as your first one - sell it in 12 months for no $ loss and then move up to another after you have had enough experience that someone will let you ride theirs.

Not being able to do test rides on bikes is a bummer because I thing we never really know how a bike will feel until we ride it for 3- minutes.  Are the pegs too high so my knees get sore - are the bars too far out so my back gets sore?  Does the wind screen cause buffeting or keep my head in nice undisturbed air? etc.


Did you take the Motorcycle safety training class?  If not - I think it was the best money i spent.

Also - what is your gear budget?  $500 will get you moving - $1000 will make you comfortable in adverse conditions.

BTW - an older KLR might be a good bike for you to look at if looks really don't matter and functionality is king.

A 600 thumper vs a 600 I4 are very different beasts - so don't get that locked up only on displacement. -

[Zerosum]

$500 will get you moving - $1000 will make you comfortable in adverse conditions.

That sounds about right.  When I got started back in 2003, it cost me $1675 to get "on the road."  That was the MSF course, the bike, insurance, registration, a new helmet, & gloves.  But I really chinced on the safety gear... I wore a regular "fashion" leather jacket and work boots for the first year.  

[Tango Alpha]

Lots of good advice here. So let's say I do buy an inexpensive used bike, what should I look out for? Or just buy whatever is comfortable and affordable with the idea that I'll be selling it in a year?

[jbs80106]

+1 on going used...however, I think you'll not want to as 'used' as i did for my 1st bike, '82 Suzi GS650....had to learn to wrench too when it was busted as nobody around would work on it.  

My local dealers tend to stock an array of manufacturers and DO allow test rides to check around.  I too started riding at 36, and kept that first bike for 3 years before getting something else.  Like the others said, there's more to the ride than size (cc's) or power (hp/torque), HOW the power is put down matters (think low-end torque like a cruiser vs mid-high end torque like standard/sport bikes).  

Part of my selection was NOT wanting to get a huge $$$ investment into motorcycling to only find out that either A) I didn't like it, or B) my wife didn't want me to like it.  Then I'd be like all those people trying to sell 1-2 year old brand new cycles on craigslist for crazy money hoping to get some of my $$$ back.  A 5-8 year old bike should probably have a pretty stable value, reasonable mileage on it, but still be reliable and not a fix-er-daily type of ride.

It is exciting!

Good luck!

[PirateT7]

used, but buy it from a dealer who will give you at least a 30-day warranty or a friend you REALLY trust - give yourself some time to check it out (or have someone else do so if you're not mechanically inclined (like me)).

[UHOH]

Tango,
You're my height and weight.   I've never owned SV650 myself, but the standard version
rides so well for me that I recommend it often as the best all around bike.

This photo is a 2001 with an added Givi windscreen.   5'  8" rider, my son
it was his first bike; he'd had only light dirt bike experience before, became a very good rider on it, btw.

had this bike for 34000 miles before a truck backed over it.   Zero mechanical problems; and it would scoot uphill or down.
before he learned to use the throttle he'd get 57 mpg.

about 2003 they went to fuel injection. last production in ~2008.   Now, with a different frame, the Suzuki 'Gladius.'
well liked and bulletproof v-twin motor / 6 speed tranny.
If you go this way, for you, avoid the faired sportbike version SV650s which is more common, more aggressive and less comfy.
great shape used one for <$4500, ask your dealer to see if they can find an unsold leftover one at another dealer

and welcome

[Orson]

I've already got my eye on two bikes, but I'm worried maybe they're not the best first bikes (don't laugh, but mebbe they're overpowered?). They are the Suzi GSX650F, and the Yam FZ6R.

Everyone has different tastes and I'm no different  

I put more emphasis on character than I do horsepower. Inline four engines are bland and devoid of character in my opinion.

I would like to suggest the Kawasaki Versys or the Suzuki SV650. They sound like motorcycles are supposed to sound like and have enough oomph to reach triple digit speeds.

[Roaddog]

My riding buddy's wife has an FZ6R. It's her 3rd bike. She started out learning to ride on a Suz GS 500 twin. then she wanted something a little sportier, so she bought  650R Ninja. When that proved not to be powerful enough, she traded for the FZ. It has a comfortable, upright riding position, a big enough tank and plenty of oomph so she can keep up with the menfolk. Personally I have always liked the Suz SV twins, 650 and 1000.

[Flashmo]

I just, thirty seconds ago, posted this to another guy...same advice applies.

Go buy a used $1000 "whatever decent bike is available at the time on Craigslist" bike, and learn to ride before you spend all this time and energy wishywhashing about which dream bike you want to get.

Seriously, you will drop your bike. You will scratch your paint. You will make mistakes learning maintenance. You will scratch your rims learning how to change a tire (which you should learn to do anyway).

After a few thousand miles, you will find out what you truly want in a bike.  Then it is time to go find that "dream bike"...

You will be happier in the end.

[UHOH]

You will be happier in the end.

In the end we're all dead.

[jsb223]

Suzuki DR 650

[2Pokey]

Seriously, you will drop your bike. You will scratch your paint. You will make mistakes learning maintenance. You will scratch your rims learning how to change a tire (which you should learn to do anyway).

I don't buy into the "you will drop your bike, scratch the paint, etc...". Maybe those things happen because you were riding a beater and it didn't really matter. Buy a nice bike if you can afford it. Treat it with caution and respect. Get some training and read some good riding manuals like Proficient Motorcycling 1 & 2. or Total Control. Most importantly, know that responsible training never ends and that gaining experience from others is less costly (in more ways than $) than figuring it out yourself.
 

After a few thousand miles, you will find out what you truly want in a bike.  Then it is time to go find that "dream bike"...

+1
But if you do drop $5k-7K, realize that your needs in a bike will certainly change and become more important than the look or style of the bike. Some of those needs may become apparent almost immediately. And they will probably continue to change as you get older and more experienced.

But back to the question...Both bikes can be good beginners bikes. I4 vs Twin? Both have more than enough power. The FZ6R ergos fit ME like a glove.
What fits YOU best?

[Kool shades]

Welcome to the addiction!!!

Used Suzuki Bandits are a great bike to look at.  I started on a Bandit 600 & loved it!! In fact, I wish I still had it...

Like everybody's telling you, get used,  get good,  Upgrade when you figure out what you like.

ride on...

[douchealmighty]

i grabbed a used 2005 sv650s this year for my first season of riding. Im 20 years old 6ft 140lbs so the aggressive stance wasnt too taxing but it undoubtedly exists. Its quick as well lots of torque but isnt crazy fast up top which is perfect considering almost all of my riding is done in canyons and mountain passes through CO   The bike is incredibly light and very forgiving in the corners which provided alot of leeway when i needed it Basically im giving my review of my experiences as a newbie rider picking up the SV. I had NO prior experience to riding except for 15 minutes on a dirtbike and an MSF course yet ive been able to handle the SV proficiently and coherently even in a couple emergency situations. The more i read the more competent i feel jumping on the bike as my inexperience is slightly offset with knowledge and preparation. I actually didnt realize it at the time but when i bought the bike the tires were so worn i was seeing cord within two weeks of purchase and thought my wheels were always locking because i had no sense for regulating brake pressure   It rode it as my summer commuter 20-50 miles a day I love this bike and i guess my point is this, the SV is an incredible starter bike even for someone with very limited experience. I dont mind the sportiness of the posture and have been reading about a bar riser modification you can do to combat the aggressive ergonomics. ITS FORGIVING!!! I mean the entire bike seems to be built for that one intention. Soft front suspension, light, easygoing powerband, and its naked for when you do drop it! (which ive managed to avoid so far knock on wood) The price is very reasonable and they last a long while. If anything see if you cant try one out. My only regret is its already snowing here in Boulder so riding is on the backburner   But in lieu of itll just give me that much more time to plan my mod list for the spring!!! Hope i could help from one newbie to another!

[veefer800canuck]

How about a 650R Kawi?

For your height, it sounds great:

This bike does have an extremely low seat height, and taller riders may feel a bit cramped. At 5'10", with a 31 inch inseam, I felt right at home in the saddle of the 650R. I also welcomed the short reach to the upright bars, and the generous wind protection offered by the full fairing. Seat comfort wasn't bad either, and certainly better than some of the seats found on modern sport bikes. We did not test passenger accommodations.

http://www.motorsports-network.com/KAWASAKI/07street/650Rtest06.htm

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/22december05_ninja650.htm

[Zerosum]

How about a 650R Kawi?

Agreed.  If a new rider is willing to part with that kind of dough on their 1st bike, it's a stellar choice.  It's so light and narrow, I'd love to ride one to see what it's like.  I briefly considered it before getting my V-Strom.

[dorklord]

Agreed.  If a new rider is willing to part with that kind of dough on their 1st bike, it's a stellar choice.  It's so light and narrow, I'd love to ride one to see what it's like.  I briefly considered it before getting my V-Strom.

I'm not sure what this comment means...the Ninja 650 has a lower MSRP than the V-strom...(or the GSX-650, or FZ6...)

Of course if you are simply referring to not recommending a brand new bike to a new rider (something I can agree with) there are used ninja 650s available...

[jfurf]

BMW F650GS (the twin-engined version).

Makes a very good first bike. Will have you feeling confident very quickly. Plus if you live in a rural area you can rail it over dirt roads. Can be found used for under $5,000. Plus it makes a great touring bike.

Honestly, the only things it's not are fast or super cool looking. The newer (twin-cylinder) models are plenty fast for a new rider. And looks are subjective anyway...

[Zerosum]

Of course if you are simply referring to not recommending a brand new bike to a new rider (something I can agree with) there are used ninja 650s available...

Yeah, that's what I meant.  IMO, even $3K to $4K is a whole hell of a lot to spend on a first bike.  IMO, of course.  Get a $1500 bike and see if you even LIKE riding, first.

[shawn and gwyn]

have you found your first bike yet?.. from what you listed as liking to do. namly outdoors kinds of things.. and being in the great state you are in. i would deffinatly be looking at a larger dualsport bike.  there are all kinds of them to choose from.. and cheap. honda, kawasaki, yamaha and suzuki all make them,  as do a host of others.  i used to ride sport tourning bikes exclusivly .. but was just passing to many roads that i didnt want to take the concours down.  after alot of research.. the KLR ended up being my choice.. good luck with your decision..

shawn

[Uncle Leo]

Tony, the GSXF650- Zuk is a very good all around street bike, with a wide and fairly flat power band that makes riding it pretty easy. It's got enough grunt to keep you amused and it's agile enough to keep you out of trouble in traffic. It can do 2 up reasonably well if you keep it to a short trip, and with bags it will take you across the continent comfortably.

Search your local dealers and sites, used GSXFs are showing up with very low mileage for several grand less than a brand new one. Their owners wanted more flash and bling than these carry, and their loss is your gain.

[wolf46]

I rode different bikes from in the 70's dual purpose to old silverwing to vstar to vtx1300 and now FZ6R. I also looked at the GSX650F but it just didn't feel right, also looked at the Ninja 650 which felt horrible ergonomically to me (something about the handlebars and grips didn't feel right). The Fz6r fits well ergonomically, decent gas mileage and for an I4 the powerband is very even. Not the fastest bike out there or great for 2-up (have done some and the bike handles fine but the GF is used to riding pillion on cruisers so not the most comfportable for her for long rides.) It's a fun, affordable, forgiving bike.`

[sslangs]

I own a '08 GSX650F,  It's my first bike also.  I was just like you: age, first bike etc.  I am very happy with my bike, would recommend.  

[GoGreen]

I think that you would be fine on a 650cc bike, I would check out the Suzuki GSX650F  or have a look at the Ninja 650r. If you manage to get a good bike to begin with, you save money in the end because either of those two bikes you could be riding for a long time. Both of these bikes have more of an upright riding position so they are comfy for the long trips, plenty of oomph to keep you happy, trust me, you can keep up with the bigger bikes. My husband rides a Bandit 1250S and I can keep up with him just fine. If you want to do some touring you don't want a bike without any fairing. Fairing will give you more wind protection, things might feel okay in town at 60km/hr max but twist it up to highway speed and the whole picture changes. (so you need a wind screen too)
 
You need to take a MSF course, they will teach you some very important basics and make you feel much more confident to handle your new bike. I would check to see if you can find either of these bikes used first, sometimes you can find a good deal if someone is looking to upgrade. I choose a new Ninja but did start riding on a used 500ex, was a great bike also, just couldn't carry hard luggage for touring, plus I had caught the new bike bug! Did consider the Zuki, but for me I didn't want anything too heavy, but I think you could handle it no problem. (I'm only 5'6" and pretty light) They say that they are two kinds of new riders, those that have dropped their bike and those who haven't dropped it yet! That's what the course is for, but there are seasoned riders who drop their bikes, too. It may happen but it may not, as I also know new riders who haven't dropped a bike (should we say yet? sorry!)

One more thing: you need to figure into your costs a good helmet (don't go too cheap, it's your head after all) and full protective gear. Armoured jacket, pants, boots, gloves. Dress for the slide, not the ride. And never take a passenger who's gear isn't as good as or better than yours. If you take a good course they will most likely emphasize this so I'll shut up now.

So take your time, sit on bikes, lots of them, even if it's a bike you are not considering it can help give you some idea of the riding position you feel you would be most comfortable with. A good idea would be to wait with your purchase until after you take the course, then at least you will have a better picture of what it's like to ride and it may help with your decision. Read lots of reviews, preferably ones that give the height and weight of the rider.
Well that's a lot to digest!
Have fun and good luck!

[erda]

Tango,
You're my height and weight.   I've never owned SV650 myself, but the standard version
rides so well for me that I recommend it often as the best all around bike.

This photo is a 2001 with an added Givi windscreen.   5'  8" rider, my son
it was his first bike; he'd had only light dirt bike experience before, became a very good rider on it, btw.

had this bike for 34000 miles before a truck backed over it.   Zero mechanical problems; and it would scoot uphill or down.
before he learned to use the throttle he'd get 57 mpg.

about 2003 they went to fuel injection. last production in ~2008.   Now, with a different frame, the Suzuki 'Gladius.'
well liked and bulletproof v-twin motor / 6 speed tranny.
If you go this way, for you, avoid the faired sportbike version SV650s which is more common, more aggressive and less comfy.
great shape used one for <$4500, ask your dealer to see if they can find an unsold leftover one at another dealer

and welcome

Nice bike, but the gear not so much.   ATGATT

[cultureslayer]

I'm 5'5" and the boyfriend is 5'8"  He has a SV650s.  They are cheap to buy and have enough torque to be lots of fun if  you ever want to try being stupid on it.  If you get the S and don't like it you can put the taller naked handlebars on it.  I have a ninja 250 and will probably get a 500 ninja as a touring bike.  I have put over 30k on 250s and they are crazy reliable and cheap.  The 500s are about the same.  Only downside is carbs, but with a little bit of tinkering they start well even when it's 45 degrees out (my limit for cold riding, not the bike's).

As a bonus all 3 bikes I mentioned are dirt cheap to insure.  You can pick them all up for under $4k and they hold their value well.  Pay cash for one and after a couple years you can still afford what you really want once you decide what it is.

[erda]

If you get the S and don't like it you can put the taller naked handlebars on it.

Not sure about this. I thought that the S had clip ons and the naked used a standard bar and clamp system.

[cultureslayer]

You have to change the triple clamp, but it's been done before.  You can also buy aftermarket bar risers.  Lots of options depending on how much work and money you are willing to put into a bike.  All three of the bikes I mentioned would benefit greatly from a $120 spring and fork oil change.  First thing I'd do to any of those bikes.  The 250 and 500 are almost dangerously undersprung and the front ends dive badly during breaking but the fix is really quick and easy.

[bobnflorida]

Tony--

         You have the good sense to ask important questions. I would suggest you go for a used 500 cc. Ride it for a year. Make sure you like the sport. If you do then sell it for what you paid and  get the bike at the top of your wish list.

         Craigslist is best because you can inspect the bike and make sure it fits. Don't buy someones problems. Look for a clean beginner with a few scuffs. Have the seller ride it to your home. And let the practice begin. Good luck and ride safe.

[Spanky]

I would recommend riding in the dirt if you have a suitable riding place available. You will get used to the bike moving under you and it is much more forgiving than the street when you are new to motorcycles. I realize that may not be an option if there is no suitable place to ride a trail bike near your house, but if there is, I would stongly recommend that for your first riding adventures. You will develop excellent riding skills without the danger of cage drivers trying their hardest to turn you into bumber spray. Just my .02