Buell's Future Uncertain?

[DaleFranks]

A confidential source with high-level contacts inside Harley-Davidson informs me that a number of H-D executives will be pushing to have the company divest itself of Buell Motorcycles, and that a decision to sell or shut down Buell may come in the near future.

The word is that both Buell and Harley-Davidson have found the relationship unsatisfactory for a number of reasons, including the company’s refusal to allow Buell to outsource anything but Evolution V-Twins for several years, and Erik Buell’s strained personal relations with a number of MoCo executives. With a company outsider who has no particular vested interest taking over the helm as CEO, and devastatingly bad sales results due to the current recession, some Harley executives believe that this would be the perfect time to kill the Buell division.

Full story here.

[Orson]

That sucks.

I never understood Harley's fear of sportbikes. I'd love to see Buells badged as Harley Davidsons. Given the company's rich racing heritage, a Harley sport bike with a black and orange Harley racing paint scheme would be bitchin'.

[mr moto]

 I thought that Buell were already switching all their bikes over to the Rotax water cooled engines ?
Or is it simply the case that without Harley's financial support they are just not a viable concern.
I agree that the Buells should always have been badged as Harleys sports bikes.

[Rincewind]

It will be interesting how this plays out in the context of the MV Augusta acquisition.  

Hopefully Buell would be able to stand on his own feet now, but I have no idea if he can buy back his own company.  If not, would it be sold?

[garry]

I think Buell could grow quite a bit if they got out from under HD. They could be sold in Euro bike shops that WANT to sell the brand (similar demographic), have more latitude with engine choice/development, and (hopefully) whoever funds it requires that they consider style/looks and sweating the details (switchgear, fuel mapping, etc) as much as the trilogy of tech.

[Rincewind]

I think Buell could grow quite a bit if they got out from under HD. They could be sold in Euro bike shops that WANT to sell the brand (similar demographic), have more latitude with engine choice/development, and (hopefully) whoever funds it requires that they consider style/looks and sweating the details (switchgear, fuel mapping, etc) as much as the trilogy of tech.

Do they have the capital to operate outside of HD and continue their R&D?  Who, beside the Chinese, would buy them if they do not?

[garry]

Do they have the capital to operate outside of HD and continue their R&D?  Who, beside the Chinese, would buy them if they do not?

I don't know. One would hope they are making enough of a profit to fund their own R&D. That's just a cost of doing business. But I suspect they need some deep pockets to fund big changes like the 1125 engine development. Who would supply that kind of financial support besides the Chinese? Victory/Polaris maybe?

[goodhawk]

I doubbt there's much profit or Harley wouldn't  drop them ??

[denisep]

We went into a local H-D dealer to check out the Buell lineup.....   yep, not a single Buell in the store.

The sales guy said they probably wouldn't stock the XB12XT that I wanted to see, because they mostly sell touring bikes..  WTF??  

[whodom]

While I don't doubt some HD executives are pushing for this, it seems to me it's LESS likely to happen now than at any other time.  Buell sales have been increasing world-wide at a time when Harley's are falling.  Buell just won it's first national championship in Daytona Sport Bike and fielded two Superbike teams that turned in respectable finishes in two races this weekend.  

On top of that, you've got a new CEO at HD with no vested interest in the Harley culture.  I've got to think he's going to look at the Harley guys suggesting this and figure they're the next one's he's going to show the door.

[traveler]

It will be interesting how this plays out in the context of the MV Augusta acquisition.  

Hopefully Buell would be able to stand on his own feet now, but I have no idea if he can buy back his own company.  If not, would it be sold?

Good point about M-V Agusta.

I have no doubt that if H-D decides to unload Buell, someone will pick them up quickly (hopefully someone American).

[Brad1445]

Remember I have bought 5 new Buells, so I'm not a hater.

But If I was Harley I would shut them down tomorrow.  The last three years showed that even when given the one of the best engines in the world they bungled it.

The brand is covered in stink.  Put the sport bike dollars on MV Augusta. The people at least seem to take pride in their work. Then sell them through independent dealers.

Buell blew the best chance they had. For the last few years the Xbikes have been so refined the only thing someone might ask id for more power.   How did they screw that up.

YOUR FIRED BUELL!  Go smoke pot on your own time.

[whodom]

Remember I have bought 5 new Buells, so I'm not a hater.

But If I was Harley I would shut them down tomorrow.  The last three years showed that even when given the one of the best engines in the world they bungled it.

Dude, why do you keep wailing on the 1125?  Yea, the initial batch of 08's were less-than-stellar.  Perhaps you haven't read any recent press on the bikes?  

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/8/4506/Motorcycle-Article/2009-Streetfighter-Comparo-III.aspx

[Rincewind]

Victory/Polaris maybe?

I couldn't imagine HD giving up Buell to the enemy.  

I agree with whodom's post - this whole thing seems unlikely.

[MisterSmooth]

That sucks.

I never understood Harley's fear of sportbikes. I'd love to see Buells badged as Harley Davidsons. Given the company's rich racing heritage, a Harley sport bike with a black and orange Harley racing paint scheme would be bitchin'.

Yeah, I completely agree.  When HD bought Buell, if they'd badged them "Harley Davidson" that would have changed the mojo.  A real sport bike with a Harley badge and the black and orange paint would be way cool.

Why are the HD shops so afraid of HD sportbikes?  Why can't sportbike people be in the Harley club?  Harley's marketing limits their ability to move into another market.

[Brad1445]

Dude, why do you keep wailing on the 1125?  Yea, the initial batch of 08's were less-than-stellar.  Perhaps you haven't read any recent press on the bikes?  

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/8/4506/Motorcycle-Article/2009-Streetfighter-Comparo-III.aspx

Because its shows such poor judgment that it revels whats inside the company and what matters most.   IT was not the customer.

How do you release bikes that you know are not running right?  5 Flashes.  Is there no one in the company that has the balls to tell the emperor he has no clothes? obviously no, so they will fall in that trap again. Clutch weep, still leaks after third revision.  Turn lamps still f'ed up on 4th revision.

I could go on but here is a statement that could help Buell become a competent company

"Good Enough, Never is"


Blessed with a World class engine this bike deserved a world class package.  Failure to recognize that HUGE opportunity demonstrates a true disconnect with reality.  I was in the Buell dealer again just today I really want to like the bike.  The styling covers parts from 5 different years of Buells, lego like controls that need revised.  The worst implementation of a split radiator system in history that is weak on cooling.

This is the 3rd year they brought this pony out. Rotax did the engine.  The lack of serious improvements - development in three years shows lack of drive to be best in class and as a Buell customer I think its insulting that they just think we will write a check from Brand loyalty.  There have been only three recalls on this bike by some accounts when 20 would be a better number to improve the customer experience.

HD is a successful, profitable manufacturing and marketing company and even with them as a mentor under that roof Buell cannot  build a bike around a world class engine?

I have no interest spending all my time in a dealers service department.

[nanbil]

Because its shows such poor judgment that it revels whats inside the company and what matters most.   IT was not the customer.

How do you release bikes that you know are not running right?  5 Flashes.  Is there no one in the company that has the balls to tell the emperor he has no clothes? obviously no, so they will fall in that trap again. Clutch weep, still leaks after third revision. Turn lamps still f'ed up on 4th revision.

I could go on but here is a statement that could help Buell become a competent company

"Good Enough, Never is"


Blessed with a World class engine this bike deserved a world class package.  Failure to recognize that HUGE opportunity demonstrates a true disconnect with reality.  I was in the Buell dealer again just today I really want to like the bike.  The styling covers parts from 5 different years of Buells, lego like controls that need revised.  The worst implementation of a split radiator system in history that is weak on cooling.

This is the 3rd year they brought this pony out. Rotax did the engine.  The lack of serious improvements - development in three years shows lack of drive to be best in class and as a Buell customer I think its insulting that they just think we will write a check from Brand loyalty.  There have been only three recalls on this bike by some accounts when 20 would be a better number to improve the customer experience.

HD is a successful, profitable manufacturing and marketing company and even with them as a mentor under that roof Buell cannot  build a bike around a world class engine?

I have no interest spending all my time in a dealers service department.

[scramblerracer123]

I keep waiting for a Buell with the MV motors
I like the rotax but they need more power for that size.  Use the 1125 for the Uly

[Schneegz]

The word is that both Buell and Harley-Davidson have found the relationship unsatisfactory for a number of reasons, including the company’s refusal to allow Buell to outsource anything but Evolution V-Twins for several years...

Hey, where's Kootenanny?  When I said Harley forced Buell to use Sportster engines before the 1125R he insisted over and over that it just wasn't so!  

[Kootenanny]

I think Buell could grow quite a bit if they got out from under HD. They could be sold in Euro bike shops that WANT to sell the brand (similar demographic), have more latitude with engine choice/development, and (hopefully) whoever funds it requires that they consider style/looks and sweating the details (switchgear, fuel mapping, etc) as much as the trilogy of tech.

Buells are alreadyt sold in Euro bike shops...in Europe, where they sell better than in North America.

When Buell was independent, he was struggling.  He cultivated the association with H-D, and eventually negotiated the sale of his company to the Motor Company...this gave Buell the cash to develop the XB bikes.  If they weren't associated with H-D, they probably wouldn't be anywhere near what they are now (closer to Fischer or Roehr, or maybe Confederate).

As far as looks are concerned, I think my Firebolt is a great looking bike...not quite an MGS-01, but much better looking than any of the Big Four jellybean sportbikes.  And FYI the fuel mapping on my original year 'Bolt is spot-on, and the switchgear is fine.


As for those who think Buells should have been re-badged H-D...well, why?  Buell was an independent company with their own following (albiet small) when they were purchased by H-D.  A Buell is not now, and never has been, a Harley.  However, peruse any internet forum, and you will see how many riders dismiss Buell because of their relationship with H-D...put the H-D logo on a Buell, and the problem would be even worse IMO.