Motorcycle "issues"

[FBRR]

I've been reading the "off topic area" call POS cars. Everyone has an example of different brands and problems they've had with a particular model.

Well I've been thinking of a new bike. As I go to their specific forums and read about specific "issues" with different brands it makes me wonder. Why aren’t issues fixed in a reasonable time frame for known PROBLEMS.
(This could also be a thread about character of various brands.)

I also know when reading forums that problems seem intensified by the "following". However, there are numerous issues that rear their ugly heads for many different brands. If car makers had as many "specific" issues as these motorcycles, we would rail against cars even more. It seems many bike makers not only build with pre-production parts and issues, but continue to do so after many model years and DON'T FIX their issues list! Why do we put up with this in BIKES! (We certainly would raise hell if cars continued to have the same flaws year after year.)

I will start with my C14 as an example. The bags latch was breaking on many bikes after release. (Kawasaki recalled and replaced the latches) Someone had a rock lodge in his rear brake lever, and again Big K recalled and made a cover for the lever. There were several keypass issues with a sticky switch, and again a simple fix. A few first year issues and they were resolved. (I would argue the “heat issue” as I don’t find my C14 any hotter than other large displacement bikes in traffic. So that indeed may be an unresolved issue for Kawasaki.)

I decided I wanted more character again. (I’ve owned numerous Harley and have ridden friends Ducati’s)
Harley continues to have issues with every year’s production. Not some small "nagging" issues but big glaring engine issues, like Overheating, Cam bearing and main bearings failing. (Harley continues to go cheap on bearing and then the next year replaces the cheap again with good bearing as the cheap fail and take out engines.) Cam tensioners were always an issue for the years I owned. If you weren't careful they failed and the debris ruined the engine! See a trend here. (And yes I know there are also plenty of high mileage Harleys without issues. But the their are plenty with common failures also)
And of course the “parade mode” heat fix! Drivability and hot restart issues!

I then thought and looked at an Italian BIKE. Model years from as far back as 2003-04 continuing to today have electrical issues related to failing BROWN connectors that MELT!! And still in production!! Then there are Gages that can't be ridden in the rain because they fog/crack/leak/fail, Again from 2003 to present. Rear brakes that need a weight hung on the lever to even be effective as a BRAKE when needed. And many electrical issues that are present right out of the box. Poor fueling and drivability issues that require after market fuel devices. Terrible build quality from the factory. (As in "FACTORY") No thanks too much character.

OK, then I looked at another Italian Bike.( Retro models! Yup, with original RETRO issues.) Gas tanks that leak from use. Gas tanks the "spread" with use! Gas tanks that develop soft spots and bumps from ethanol! Belts that need to be changed at very short intervals or you risk again serious engine damage! The dreaded RED KEY that will need a new "computer system" if lost?
Poor fueling issues again. This seems to be an Italian drive feature.
I guess that is just character!

One maker’s forum has a sticky on how to fix the throttle spring. As they are far too hard to use as designed!

Then there is the infamous final drive failure from our German friends. And still, So many models and model years still in production, without admission from maker that an issue exists. (All well and good to accept that some long distance guys ship "SPARES final drives” along their route.) Again I realize not every bike will fail! But how do you trust that yours won't? And the maker turns a blind eye to the issue. This same maker releases software an updates like Microsoft. And they seem to "work" with about the same level of reliability as "WINDOWS." But then again it's only for the small issues like computer controlled suspension. ( Oh! and when your shock fails it is no longer compatible with the body computer and software so all that needs to be updated or replaced! Ok if under warranty, but a big deal if you are not! Yet we accept those issues!

And lastly I looked at the English/Thai bike, with “surprise” Electrical issues. And coolant that is leaking and is very hard to repair or fix in a brand new model. Some reports of the "demo" bike leaking on the dealer floor. (The more things change the more they stay the same.)
I remember when I worked with a well known British car maker, and even the Chief engineer pointed out the drip pans under even their "NEW" models on display!


Why do we as motorcycle consumers accept these glaring failures of both build and design, without improvement year after year!

The point of this little rant!
I guess I'm too old to accept as much character as I read about on the specific bike’s forums. After looking at all the character in these various brands, I remembered WHY I bought a "bland" BIKE.  Replace the oil and keep ridding. Which is the real reason I bought a MOTORCYLE, to RIDE? I retired as production development engineer; I don’t wish to continue my craft when I buy a new Motorcycle!

[sammyseaman]

Why do we as motorcycle consumers accept these glaring failures of both build and design, without improvement year after year!

Excellent question. Some people absolutely fall in love with a certain bike and either don't think it's a deal killer or are blind to the problem. "Issues" are one reason why I never buy a first-year model run. Let a year allow them to sort through issues.
What blows me away is a certain Japanese brand that's known it's had electrical issues on a certain bike but never has really addressed it.

[county]

On the whole motorcycles are a lot better than they were 20 years ago, even Harleys.  A lot better.

[bassjones]

What blows me away is a certain Japanese brand that's known it's had electrical issues on a certain bike but never has really addressed it.

VFR?  According to all the dedicated viffer sites it was fixed with the '06 model, which is a big reason I went with an '06 and only really looked at the '06 and newer bikes.

[blueridgerider]

First, there's the obvious and obligatory comment:

If you were to go by the internet forums (especially brand specific) to decide on any purchase you probably would end up with nothing.  

That said, there is truth in what you say and questions.  I have one of the German branded bikes you speak of, and one that is subject to that final drive failure.    I bought it for many reasons I won't go into here.  I'll simply address the issue of why I bought the bike with its know Final Drive issues.

I'm not overly concerned about the failure rate.  I think the truth lies somewhere between a figure that is acceptable (as BMW has revised the design), and what the internet seems to be conjecturing.

I think the occurrence of problems is widely overstated on the internet.   Those brand specific boards are usually where people go when they have problems.

I am sure I am not alone in this, but I NEVER visit a BMW specific board unless I have a problem, adding a farkle, or getting specific advice.

[chornbe]

County's comments are dead on. Bikes are way, way better than they were in decades past.

The worry is in some of the bikes that remain as they were a decade, 15 or even 20 years ago and are compared to more modern machines.

[Orson]

it's a wonder some of you even ride  

foggy tach!?!

That's IT! (tossing Gucci labeled gloves to the linoleum garage floor)

I'm going home!

 

[bomber]

a friend of mine used to say that you couldn't buy a bad motorcycle since Sears stopped selling bikes . . . perhaps not altogether accurate, but damn close.

Anyone remember the American Eagle branded Laverdas?

[Gsam]

I'm agree with FBRR, I 've had enough "character" over the years myself, and have found the "bland" brands , Honda's for me, to be much more reliable and rewarding.

[heinzrx]

I then thought and looked at an Italian BIKE. Model years from as far back as 2003-04 continuing to today have electrical issues related to failing BROWN connectors that MELT!!

Hmmmm..... Aprilia Falco (and/or Futura) perchance?

I think most bikes tend to have an issue or two. As to why they don't get resolved I have no idea.

A little research on the InterWeb prior to a purchase at least makes me aware if there are any issues with a particular brand/model. At that point I have to decide whether I can either resolve or live with the issue(s).

I decided, after a bit of research, I could resolve the electrical shortcomings of my Falco without too much headache and cost.
YMMV

Heinz

[Magnarider]

On the whole motorcycles are a lot better than they were 20 years ago, even Harleys.  A lot better.

Holy crap, County said something positive about a Harley?  Man, you feeling okay?  Have you been going to counseling or something?  

[Skee]

On the whole motorcycles are a lot better than they were 20 years ago, even Harleys.  A lot better.

Yo guys, it's a 400 lb bike, not a 4,000 lb cage.  It's a short frame with 2 wheels attached to either end and a big motor stuck in-between.  Oh yeah, and a set of handlebars (or clip-ons) for steering and a cushion to sit on.  WTF were you expecting?   Sometimes I'm amazed at how well mine runs, as compared to the DT 360 I started on.  

So now I'm agreeing with Country?  WTF was I thinking?

[forester]

First, there's the obvious and obligatory comment:

If you were to go by the internet forums (especially brand specific) to decide on any purchase you probably would end up with nothing.  

No - I went to the internet forums and ended up with a v-strom 650.  So you might ask: How's that working for you?  ...and my answer would be it has performed flawlessly for me.  I mean, all the good things that the people were saying about it were true - and also the bad things (which was limited to helmet buffeting) was fixable for less than $5 and 20 minutes...  It's unbelievable how awesome this bike is.

HOWEVER, it is not perfect: The speedo is off 8% (optimistic) by design and that is frustrating especially when I have to do simple math in my head every time the speed limit changes and I have to estimate how far it's off and how much further faster I can go to be able to get away with it when I pass the law dawgs.  

When I realized that the speedo was off - I was considering taking it in - then I read the federal standards for speedometer accuracy and decided it's not worth fighting unless it was a class action lawsuit effort.  10% accuracy is a very dated figure, but there are some legal advantages to having that as part of our legal conscript.  

This is a great thread.  I'm glad you started it.

[forester]

 WTF were you expecting?

More than you, apparently.

How about an accurate speedometer, for starters...1980s Honda cars have more accurate speedos than today's bikes have and there is ABSOLUTELY no reason for it.

[Castaway]

Good question, FBBR. I've wondered the same thing, thinking about my Superhawk with its notorious RR and cam chain tensioner failures. The fixes seem simple and cheap, why does the manufacturer keep putting them out uncorrected? I guess it would entail acknowledging a failed design and replacement of all units sold, costing $$$ in the end.

[FBRR]

Hmmmm..... Aprilia Falco (and/or Futura) perchance?

I think most bikes tend to have an issue or two. As to why they don't get resolved I have no idea.

A little research on the InterWeb prior to a purchase at least makes me aware if there are any issues with a particular brand/model. At that point I have to decide whether I can either resolve or live with the issue(s).

I decided, after a bit of research, I could resolve the electrical shortcomings of my Falco without too much headache and cost.
YMMV

"Factory" is the key phrase here!! ( Tuono  ) It's seems MOST all have an issue wit the brown connector, and if not "bypassed" the wires melt and take out other electrical components! Some in as few as 4000 miles. To me that is unacceptable. But again that is just one of the re-occurring problems that motorcycle makers continue to ignore, year after year of production.

Heinz

[falconati]

No - I went to the internet forums and ended up with a v-strom 650.  So you might ask: How's that working for you?  ...and my answer would be it has performed flawlessly for me.  I mean, all the good things that the people were saying about it were true - and also the bad things (which was limited to helmet buffeting) was fixable for less than $5 and 20 minutes...  It's unbelievable how awesome this bike is.

HOWEVER, it is not perfect: The speedo is off 8% (optimistic) by design and that is frustrating especially when I have to do simple math in my head every time the speed limit changes and I have to estimate how far it's off and how much further faster I can go to be able to get away with it when I pass the law dawgs.  

When I realized that the speedo was off - I was considering taking it in - then I read the federal standards for speedometer accuracy and decided it's not worth fighting unless it was a class action lawsuit effort.  10% accuracy is a very dated figure, but there are some legal advantages to having that as part of our legal conscript.  

This is a great thread.  I'm glad you started it.

If you want an accurate speedo, buy Italian (but then random shit will break )

[county]

How about an accurate speedometer, for starters...1980s Honda cars have more accurate speedos than today's bikes have and there is ABSOLUTELY no reason for it.

What for?  I seldom look at the thing.  The tach works fine  And if it doesn't they have installed these neat things called rev limiters

[atadaskew]

That's IT! (tossing Gucci labeled gloves to the linoleum garage floor)

Let's be honest.  You just threw down a  pair of mismatched leather roping gloves that had "Goozie" written on them with magic marker.
The right one has some duct tape covering a hole on the palm.

[scott19]

HOWEVER, it is not perfect: The speedo is off 8% (optimistic) by design and that is frustrating especially when I have to do simple math in my head every time the speed limit changes and I have to estimate how far it's off and how much further faster I can go to be able to get away with it when I pass the law dawgs.  

When I realized that the speedo was off - I was considering taking it in - then I read the federal standards for speedometer accuracy and decided it's not worth fighting unless it was a class action lawsuit effort.  10% accuracy is a very dated figure, but there are some legal advantages to having that as part of our legal conscript.  

This is a great thread.  I'm glad you started it.

I think the problem might be that you're way too concerned with getting away with every inch of speed. Sit back and enjoy the ride. You're on a V-strom, for christ's sake! Relax!

I think bikes are way better than they used to be. In fact, they're approaching car-like quality standards. Who ever thought 100k+ would ever be a obtainable mileage figure?