Motorcycle "issues"

[FBRR]

I've been reading the "off topic area" call POS cars. Everyone has an example of different brands and problems they've had with a particular model.

Well I've been thinking of a new bike. As I go to their specific forums and read about specific "issues" with different brands it makes me wonder. Why aren’t issues fixed in a reasonable time frame for known PROBLEMS.
(This could also be a thread about character of various brands.)

I also know when reading forums that problems seem intensified by the "following". However, there are numerous issues that rear their ugly heads for many different brands. If car makers had as many "specific" issues as these motorcycles, we would rail against cars even more. It seems many bike makers not only build with pre-production parts and issues, but continue to do so after many model years and DON'T FIX their issues list! Why do we put up with this in BIKES! (We certainly would raise hell if cars continued to have the same flaws year after year.)

I will start with my C14 as an example. The bags latch was breaking on many bikes after release. (Kawasaki recalled and replaced the latches) Someone had a rock lodge in his rear brake lever, and again Big K recalled and made a cover for the lever. There were several keypass issues with a sticky switch, and again a simple fix. A few first year issues and they were resolved. (I would argue the “heat issue” as I don’t find my C14 any hotter than other large displacement bikes in traffic. So that indeed may be an unresolved issue for Kawasaki.)

I decided I wanted more character again. (I’ve owned numerous Harley and have ridden friends Ducati’s)
Harley continues to have issues with every year’s production. Not some small "nagging" issues but big glaring engine issues, like Overheating, Cam bearing and main bearings failing. (Harley continues to go cheap on bearing and then the next year replaces the cheap again with good bearing as the cheap fail and take out engines.) Cam tensioners were always an issue for the years I owned. If you weren't careful they failed and the debris ruined the engine! See a trend here. (And yes I know there are also plenty of high mileage Harleys without issues. But the their are plenty with common failures also)
And of course the “parade mode” heat fix! Drivability and hot restart issues!

I then thought and looked at an Italian BIKE. Model years from as far back as 2003-04 continuing to today have electrical issues related to failing BROWN connectors that MELT!! And still in production!! Then there are Gages that can't be ridden in the rain because they fog/crack/leak/fail, Again from 2003 to present. Rear brakes that need a weight hung on the lever to even be effective as a BRAKE when needed. And many electrical issues that are present right out of the box. Poor fueling and drivability issues that require after market fuel devices. Terrible build quality from the factory. (As in "FACTORY") No thanks too much character.

OK, then I looked at another Italian Bike.( Retro models! Yup, with original RETRO issues.) Gas tanks that leak from use. Gas tanks the "spread" with use! Gas tanks that develop soft spots and bumps from ethanol! Belts that need to be changed at very short intervals or you risk again serious engine damage! The dreaded RED KEY that will need a new "computer system" if lost?
Poor fueling issues again. This seems to be an Italian drive feature.
I guess that is just character!

One maker’s forum has a sticky on how to fix the throttle spring. As they are far too hard to use as designed!

Then there is the infamous final drive failure from our German friends. And still, So many models and model years still in production, without admission from maker that an issue exists. (All well and good to accept that some long distance guys ship "SPARES final drives” along their route.) Again I realize not every bike will fail! But how do you trust that yours won't? And the maker turns a blind eye to the issue. This same maker releases software an updates like Microsoft. And they seem to "work" with about the same level of reliability as "WINDOWS." But then again it's only for the small issues like computer controlled suspension. ( Oh! and when your shock fails it is no longer compatible with the body computer and software so all that needs to be updated or replaced! Ok if under warranty, but a big deal if you are not! Yet we accept those issues!

And lastly I looked at the English/Thai bike, with “surprise” Electrical issues. And coolant that is leaking and is very hard to repair or fix in a brand new model. Some reports of the "demo" bike leaking on the dealer floor. (The more things change the more they stay the same.)
I remember when I worked with a well known British car maker, and even the Chief engineer pointed out the drip pans under even their "NEW" models on display!


Why do we as motorcycle consumers accept these glaring failures of both build and design, without improvement year after year!

The point of this little rant!
I guess I'm too old to accept as much character as I read about on the specific bike’s forums. After looking at all the character in these various brands, I remembered WHY I bought a "bland" BIKE.  Replace the oil and keep ridding. Which is the real reason I bought a MOTORCYLE, to RIDE? I retired as production development engineer; I don’t wish to continue my craft when I buy a new Motorcycle!

[sammyseaman]

Why do we as motorcycle consumers accept these glaring failures of both build and design, without improvement year after year!

Excellent question. Some people absolutely fall in love with a certain bike and either don't think it's a deal killer or are blind to the problem. "Issues" are one reason why I never buy a first-year model run. Let a year allow them to sort through issues.
What blows me away is a certain Japanese brand that's known it's had electrical issues on a certain bike but never has really addressed it.

[county]

On the whole motorcycles are a lot better than they were 20 years ago, even Harleys.  A lot better.

[bassjones]

What blows me away is a certain Japanese brand that's known it's had electrical issues on a certain bike but never has really addressed it.

VFR?  According to all the dedicated viffer sites it was fixed with the '06 model, which is a big reason I went with an '06 and only really looked at the '06 and newer bikes.

[blueridgerider]

First, there's the obvious and obligatory comment:

If you were to go by the internet forums (especially brand specific) to decide on any purchase you probably would end up with nothing.  

That said, there is truth in what you say and questions.  I have one of the German branded bikes you speak of, and one that is subject to that final drive failure.    I bought it for many reasons I won't go into here.  I'll simply address the issue of why I bought the bike with its know Final Drive issues.

I'm not overly concerned about the failure rate.  I think the truth lies somewhere between a figure that is acceptable (as BMW has revised the design), and what the internet seems to be conjecturing.

I think the occurrence of problems is widely overstated on the internet.   Those brand specific boards are usually where people go when they have problems.

I am sure I am not alone in this, but I NEVER visit a BMW specific board unless I have a problem, adding a farkle, or getting specific advice.

[chornbe]

County's comments are dead on. Bikes are way, way better than they were in decades past.

The worry is in some of the bikes that remain as they were a decade, 15 or even 20 years ago and are compared to more modern machines.

[Orson]

it's a wonder some of you even ride  

foggy tach!?!

That's IT! (tossing Gucci labeled gloves to the linoleum garage floor)

I'm going home!

 

[bomber]

a friend of mine used to say that you couldn't buy a bad motorcycle since Sears stopped selling bikes . . . perhaps not altogether accurate, but damn close.

Anyone remember the American Eagle branded Laverdas?

[Gsam]

I'm agree with FBRR, I 've had enough "character" over the years myself, and have found the "bland" brands , Honda's for me, to be much more reliable and rewarding.

[heinzrx]

I then thought and looked at an Italian BIKE. Model years from as far back as 2003-04 continuing to today have electrical issues related to failing BROWN connectors that MELT!!

Hmmmm..... Aprilia Falco (and/or Futura) perchance?

I think most bikes tend to have an issue or two. As to why they don't get resolved I have no idea.

A little research on the InterWeb prior to a purchase at least makes me aware if there are any issues with a particular brand/model. At that point I have to decide whether I can either resolve or live with the issue(s).

I decided, after a bit of research, I could resolve the electrical shortcomings of my Falco without too much headache and cost.
YMMV

Heinz

[Magnarider]

On the whole motorcycles are a lot better than they were 20 years ago, even Harleys.  A lot better.

Holy crap, County said something positive about a Harley?  Man, you feeling okay?  Have you been going to counseling or something?  

[Skee]

On the whole motorcycles are a lot better than they were 20 years ago, even Harleys.  A lot better.

Yo guys, it's a 400 lb bike, not a 4,000 lb cage.  It's a short frame with 2 wheels attached to either end and a big motor stuck in-between.  Oh yeah, and a set of handlebars (or clip-ons) for steering and a cushion to sit on.  WTF were you expecting?   Sometimes I'm amazed at how well mine runs, as compared to the DT 360 I started on.  

So now I'm agreeing with Country?  WTF was I thinking?

[forester]

First, there's the obvious and obligatory comment:

If you were to go by the internet forums (especially brand specific) to decide on any purchase you probably would end up with nothing.  

No - I went to the internet forums and ended up with a v-strom 650.  So you might ask: How's that working for you?  ...and my answer would be it has performed flawlessly for me.  I mean, all the good things that the people were saying about it were true - and also the bad things (which was limited to helmet buffeting) was fixable for less than $5 and 20 minutes...  It's unbelievable how awesome this bike is.

HOWEVER, it is not perfect: The speedo is off 8% (optimistic) by design and that is frustrating especially when I have to do simple math in my head every time the speed limit changes and I have to estimate how far it's off and how much further faster I can go to be able to get away with it when I pass the law dawgs.  

When I realized that the speedo was off - I was considering taking it in - then I read the federal standards for speedometer accuracy and decided it's not worth fighting unless it was a class action lawsuit effort.  10% accuracy is a very dated figure, but there are some legal advantages to having that as part of our legal conscript.  

This is a great thread.  I'm glad you started it.

[forester]

 WTF were you expecting?

More than you, apparently.

How about an accurate speedometer, for starters...1980s Honda cars have more accurate speedos than today's bikes have and there is ABSOLUTELY no reason for it.

[Castaway]

Good question, FBBR. I've wondered the same thing, thinking about my Superhawk with its notorious RR and cam chain tensioner failures. The fixes seem simple and cheap, why does the manufacturer keep putting them out uncorrected? I guess it would entail acknowledging a failed design and replacement of all units sold, costing $$$ in the end.

[FBRR]

Hmmmm..... Aprilia Falco (and/or Futura) perchance?

I think most bikes tend to have an issue or two. As to why they don't get resolved I have no idea.

A little research on the InterWeb prior to a purchase at least makes me aware if there are any issues with a particular brand/model. At that point I have to decide whether I can either resolve or live with the issue(s).

I decided, after a bit of research, I could resolve the electrical shortcomings of my Falco without too much headache and cost.
YMMV

"Factory" is the key phrase here!! ( Tuono  ) It's seems MOST all have an issue wit the brown connector, and if not "bypassed" the wires melt and take out other electrical components! Some in as few as 4000 miles. To me that is unacceptable. But again that is just one of the re-occurring problems that motorcycle makers continue to ignore, year after year of production.

Heinz

[falconati]

No - I went to the internet forums and ended up with a v-strom 650.  So you might ask: How's that working for you?  ...and my answer would be it has performed flawlessly for me.  I mean, all the good things that the people were saying about it were true - and also the bad things (which was limited to helmet buffeting) was fixable for less than $5 and 20 minutes...  It's unbelievable how awesome this bike is.

HOWEVER, it is not perfect: The speedo is off 8% (optimistic) by design and that is frustrating especially when I have to do simple math in my head every time the speed limit changes and I have to estimate how far it's off and how much further faster I can go to be able to get away with it when I pass the law dawgs.  

When I realized that the speedo was off - I was considering taking it in - then I read the federal standards for speedometer accuracy and decided it's not worth fighting unless it was a class action lawsuit effort.  10% accuracy is a very dated figure, but there are some legal advantages to having that as part of our legal conscript.  

This is a great thread.  I'm glad you started it.

If you want an accurate speedo, buy Italian (but then random shit will break )

[county]

How about an accurate speedometer, for starters...1980s Honda cars have more accurate speedos than today's bikes have and there is ABSOLUTELY no reason for it.

What for?  I seldom look at the thing.  The tach works fine  And if it doesn't they have installed these neat things called rev limiters

[atadaskew]

That's IT! (tossing Gucci labeled gloves to the linoleum garage floor)

Let's be honest.  You just threw down a  pair of mismatched leather roping gloves that had "Goozie" written on them with magic marker.
The right one has some duct tape covering a hole on the palm.

[scott19]

HOWEVER, it is not perfect: The speedo is off 8% (optimistic) by design and that is frustrating especially when I have to do simple math in my head every time the speed limit changes and I have to estimate how far it's off and how much further faster I can go to be able to get away with it when I pass the law dawgs.  

When I realized that the speedo was off - I was considering taking it in - then I read the federal standards for speedometer accuracy and decided it's not worth fighting unless it was a class action lawsuit effort.  10% accuracy is a very dated figure, but there are some legal advantages to having that as part of our legal conscript.  

This is a great thread.  I'm glad you started it.

I think the problem might be that you're way too concerned with getting away with every inch of speed. Sit back and enjoy the ride. You're on a V-strom, for christ's sake! Relax!

I think bikes are way better than they used to be. In fact, they're approaching car-like quality standards. Who ever thought 100k+ would ever be a obtainable mileage figure?  

[Bravo12]

If they consistently fixed problems after the first year, how would they ever get people to buy new models in their first production year?  Savvy riders/buyers usually wait for at least the second year of a model's production anyway, to lessen the risk of serious design problems coming up.  But if everyone knew the second year of a model was going to be markedly better, why not wait?

[kevin_stevens]

Here's an example (ok, two) of how this thing comes back to bite manufacturers:

1)  I'm very interested in the 2009 CBR1K.  But I won't even consider buying one.  Why?
Some of the 2008s had significant oil burning problems - I've heard reports of up to *well* over a quart per 1K miles.  Honda pulled the covers over the whole issue - some owners apparently got replacements, some got rebores, some got told "that's normal".  

The 2009 is the same bike.  Does it have the same problems?  Don't know - it takes a while for these things to get reported.  Did they fix something?  Don't know, Honda's not saying.  If I buy one and it has a problem, will they take care of me?  Of course the salesman says so - he doesn't have to back that up.

So I won't be buying one.  If they'd said "Yes, there was a ring sealing problem with some of the 2008s, we changed design/suppliers, anything past VIN xxxxx is ok.", they might have my money.

2)  Had a 1999 C5 Corvette.  GM was trying something nifty with the control arm bushings to get better compliance along with solid handling.  May have worked, but under *hard* braking the bushings would pull out of the control arm and allow it to start grinding against the front crossmember.  Not good.

My dealer replaced two sets on my car; the first while I was autocrossing it, and the second after it had been retired and was a pure street car.  Then he said he wasn't going to replace any more, that I was subjecting the car to "racing use".  So I had a choice of paying a lawyer for an exhaustive battle with GM warranty, ponying up $1800 a year to have the control arms replaced, or selling the car.  I sold the car.

A couple of years later they finally admitted there was a problem and issued a TSB for replacement with a different bushing type.  Way too late for me, after I sold the best street car I've had.  I won't be buying another one.

KeS

[Skee]

If they consistently fixed problems after the first year, how would they ever get people to buy new models in their first production year?  Savvy riders/buyers usually wait for at least the second year of a model's production anyway, to lessen the risk of serious design problems coming up.  But if everyone knew the second year of a model was going to be markedly better, why not wait?

Now there is true marketing genius

[chornbe]

More than you, apparently.

How about an accurate speedometer, for starters...1980s Honda cars have more accurate speedos than today's bikes have and there is ABSOLUTELY no reason for it.

I noticed that each time I change my rear tire my speedo is magically accurate again... for a few months, then as the tire wears and squares off, it becomes less and less accurate. The Sportster speedo has been pretty close since day one, but it definitely changes as the tire wears.

[Bjorn Toulouse]

It was so embarrassing, I'd log onto the Tiger 1050 site and read all about the problems that had cropped up with other members bikes, and I had none.  

Same problem with the '02 VFR I had previous to the Tiger.....it just "worked".

WTF??  

Oh, I almost forgot, both bikes had optimistic speedometers. The odometers were very accurate, however.


Rex

[sagerat]

And the single-biggest flaw that cuts across all brands:  stock motorcycle seats are adequate at best.  My Guzzi and my VFR had above average and excellent seats, respectively, but the GS, KLR, and Ural were just adequate.

[Bogie]

Here's one thats a classic....

Harley rocker box gaskets....being replaced with Cometic or James gaskets for 30 years!

[MadMax96]

This is one reason I dig my Bandit.  Modern enough to not have electrical issues that many 80s Jap bikes had, but still basic enough that electronics aren't failing.  Still even have a cable driven speedo and a mechanical odometer.  Simple oil-cooled design, no water pump, no fuel pump, no coolant to change.  

This thing is so reliable and it sometimes shouldn't be.  A couple of winters ago, I parked it for the season in November without any treatment to the gas (full tank though) and didn't touch it until April - no trickle charger or anything.  We're talking Chicago winters here - garage gets cold enough to freeze bottled water.  Went to fire it up and it took a little longer to get the fluids moving, but it fired right up.

Heck - the original battery was 7 yrs old and never let me down before I changed it - finally swapped it out just for peace of mind.

Sadly Suzuki isn't without it's share of "issues."  Those boneheads sold many of the early 2nd gen ('01-02) 1200s with bad pistons causing them to burn a quart of oil after 1000 miles.

[swimmer]

VFR?  According to all the dedicated viffer sites it was fixed with the '06 model, which is a big reason I went with an '06 and only really looked at the '06 and newer bikes.

Honda also did a recall to replace part of the wiring harness on earlier Gen6 VFRs but still, on a motorcycle that is otherwise regarded so highly in terms of reliability they dragged their feet.

[desertxxrider]

It was so embarrassing, I'd log onto the Tiger 1050 site and read all about the problems that had cropped up with other members bikes, and I had none.  

Same problem with the '02 VFR I had previous to the Tiger.....it just "worked".

WTF??  

Oh, I almost forgot, both bikes had optimistic speedometers. The odometers were very accurate, however.


Rex

Car and Motorcycle forums are not allways 100% accurate on issues. Half the people bought it used, that can allso mean wrecked, repaired, worked on by goobers, squid driven, modified and resurrected junk in hopes of saving money. Then they make their list of problems and complain about it on forums because the seller said it was like NEW. I've seen alot of these wonderfull purchases that non savy buyers gobbled up.

[Brad1445]

Most all new bikes seem to be of good design build quality and reliability.  

Except the New Buells.  You will never get to ride, but you will get to know your dealer service manager very well.  All the other bikes will make fun of you also.

[county]

Well, nobody much posts about how their water pump or fuel mapping is working.

So, on the internet we get to hear about m/c problems all over the country and we get to hear about what some newby thinks is a problem.   And as previously stated we here about problems caused by owners or previous owners.  (Or dealer shops)

[sammyseaman]

I'm agree with FBRR, I 've had enough "character" over the years myself, and have found the "bland" brands , Honda's for me, to be much more reliable and rewarding.

Keep telling yourself that.

[scottzilla]

First, I don't agree that bikes are better today (From a mechanical/durability perspective) than they were 20 years ago.  I think bikes have a great 20 year track record of dependability.  At least, they have been consistant.  From a performance perspective yes-absolutely-bikes are better today.

Next, I agree stock seats suck.  At least suspensions are better today.  And tires.  Remember up until recently the first thing you did was take the OEM tires off because they sucked.  Not so today.

Now, this will piss everyone off.  Look at Japanese bikes the last twenty years and tell me there is a huge gap in relialbility from 1989 to 2009.  You can't.  It's been consistant.  They built fine bikes then and they build fine bikes now.  In 1989, the weakest part on most Hondas was the stator and today, the weakest part on a Honda is the stator!  Consistant.  The Japanese have always built great motorcycles.
So the biggest change has come from companies that aren't Japanese, some of whom don't have a 20 year record to speak of!  KTM wasn't selling shit in the USA 20 years ago!  So these "Problems", the way I see it, are coming primarily from companies that aren't building bikes as well as the Japanese.  

[Bjorn Toulouse]

Car and Motorcycle forums are not allways 100% accurate on issues.  

But, but, it's the Intertube!  


Rex

[Justin]

First, I don't agree that bikes are better today (From a mechanical/durability perspective) than they were 20 years ago.  I think bikes have a great 20 year track record of dependability.  At least, they have been consistant.  From a performance perspective yes-absolutely-bikes are better today.

Next, I agree stock seats suck.  At least suspensions are better today.  And tires.  Remember up until recently the first thing you did was take the OEM tires off because they sucked.  Not so today.

Now, this will piss everyone off.  Look at Japanese bikes the last twenty years and tell me there is a huge gap in relialbility from 1989 to 2009.  You can't.  It's been consistant.  They built fine bikes then and they build fine bikes now.  In 1989, the weakest part on most Hondas was the stator and today, the weakest part on a Honda is the stator!  Consistant.  The Japanese have always built great motorcycles.
So the biggest change has come from companies that aren't Japanese, some of whom don't have a 20 year record to speak of!  KTM wasn't selling shit in the USA 20 years ago!  So these "Problems", the way I see it, are coming primarily from companies that aren't building bikes as well as the Japanese.  

+1 .. here I go agreeing with Scott again ...  

I rode an XX for most of this decade.. and the only mechanical failure... STATOR

[Thundergod]

If they were SIGMA 7 build quality....bike would be $300K.

Overall, I have had wonderful experience from YAMAHA.
Every new bike, especially new-models will have their issues ironed out.

Lest not forget NEW COKE!

[Justin]

Overall, I have had wonderful experience from YAMAHA.

Same here with Honda.. I can accept one stator failure in 70k miles on a bike.

[Gsam]

Keep telling yourself that.

With over 35 years of riding different brands and working for two different cycle shops i don't have to tell myself, it (for me) is a proven fact!

[zx12rdude]

Same here with Honda.. I can accept one stator failure in 70k miles on a bike.

And I would have to add that I've experienced the same with Kawasaki. 30k miles on my current bike, nothing that would be considered a problem. A couple of recalls, half of which could be considered.. precautionary.

[Orson]

motorcycles aren't for sissys.

perhaps we can interest you in a Hyundai with electric mirrors  

The last thing we need is for some lab coat-wearing, slide ruler-usin', pencil-pushin' geek to hammer flat the last bit of character left in this world.

Forza Guzzi  

[scottzilla]

motorcycles aren't for sissys.

perhaps we can interest you in a Hyundai with electric mirrors  

The last thing we need is for some lab coat-wearing, slide ruler-usin', pencil-pushin' geek to hammer flat the last bit of character left in this world.

Forza Guzzi  

Yeah, the "Character" thing.  That alone is worth $2000.

[Orson]

I can hear the electric mirrors whirring from here  

[county]

Yeah, the "Character" thing.  That alone is worth $2000.

Now that brings up another point.  Price.  Jeebus, I paid $2000 for my first big bike, a 750 Triumph Trident (A leftover but new).  Several years later I paid $2000 for a 750F Honda (Also a new leftover).  

Today the price of a new motorcycle is equivalent to a car.  Not an expensive car but a car.  WTF?  How come cars get cheaper and motorcycles more expensive?

[atadaskew]

I can hear the electric mirrors whirring from here  

We don't neeeed no steeeenkin' mirrors.

[scottzilla]

Now that brings up another point.  Price.  Jeebus, I paid $2000 for my first big bike, a 750 Triumph Trident (A leftover but new).  Several years later I paid $2000 for a 750F Honda (Also a new leftover).  

Today the price of a new motorcycle is equivalent to a car.  Not an expensive car but a car.  WTF?  How come cars get cheaper and motorcycles more expensive?

I think it's been a while since you went car shopping.  Go ahead and find a new car for $11,200 and get back to me.
Oh, and I mean in the USA, not India, Korea, etc.

[chornbe]

true, but the price increases on bikes is disproportionate to those of cars.

[scottzilla]

true, but the price increases on bikes is disproportionate to those of cars.

I'm looking at the March 2000 issue of Cycle World right now (I saved it because it had an article on the Falco) and the newly redesigned Yamaha R1 had a list price of $10,299.  In 9 years, the bike has picked up whay? 40 HP and lost 30-50 pounds?  What is the current list price?
I totally agree: price increases are disproportionate.  Cars have gotten much more expensive!

Also, the R1 represents the best that motorcycling has to offer in terms of speed, weight and overall performance.  The equivalent car is a freaking Ferrari or something like that.

[3power]

Now, this will piss everyone off.  Look at Japanese bikes the last twenty years and tell me there is a huge gap in relialbility from 1989 to 2009.  You can't.  It's been consistant.  They built fine bikes then and they build fine bikes now.  In 1989, the weakest part on most Hondas was the stator and today, the weakest part on a Honda is the stator!  Consistant.  The Japanese have always built great motorcycles.
So the biggest change has come from companies that aren't Japanese, some of whom don't have a 20 year record to speak of!  KTM wasn't selling shit in the USA 20 years ago!  So these "Problems", the way I see it, are coming primarily from companies that aren't building bikes as well as the Japanese.  

That doesn't piss me off at all, but it's inaccurate.  Some examples:  the CBR 1000 oil consumption issue, the VFR electrical issue, the FZ1 cracked frame issue, the ZX10R frame braking issue.

[Giaka]

Holy crap, County said something positive about a Harley?  Man, you feeling okay?  Have you been going to counseling or something?  

Nah he said something about putting motorcycles on the hole now is better than it was 20 years ago.

[scottzilla]

That doesn't piss me off at all, but it's inaccurate.  Some examples:  the CBR 1000 oil consumption issue, the VFR electrical issue, the FZ1 cracked frame issue, the ZX10R frame braking issue.

Issues?  Or internet Loch Ness Monster stuff?

[atadaskew]

Issues?  Or internet Loch Ness Monster stuff?

The overheating problems with my Wing 1800 was an issue. As was it's frame cracking that had an associated recall.

[scottzilla]

The overheating problems with my Wing 1800 was an issue. As was it's frame cracking that had an associated recall.

A recall is an "Issue".  Your overheating problem was a problem you had with your bike.  The point is, nobody is saying bikes are perfect but I question "The Issues" people read about on the internet.  

[atadaskew]

A recall is an "Issue".  Your overheating problem was a problem you had with your bike.  The point is, nobody is saying bikes are perfect but I question "The Issues" people read about on the internet.  

Honda had a TSB/recall to 'fix' the overheating.  It was a different CPU.  Did not work on my bike.

[chornbe]

I question some of the design choices that lead to "issues".

For instance, the Gen-1 Connie was under-forked and under-braked for 2 decades. Rather than pull parts from another bin and iterate the bike, they just kept it as-was until a (FINALLY!) redesign.

My Harley is way overbuilt and its weight suffers because of it. I mean, the freaking heel-toe shifter I took off of it probably weighs the same as a bolt-on subframe of pretty much any japanese bike.

The FZ6 I had was just about perfect... then they cheaped out by saving... $200?... on shitty forks.   And ya know... it really doesn't cost that much more to put decent forks on a bike when you're the guy building them. I mean... the R6 has decent forks on it. There's no way it costs Yamaha $2500 to make them. No way.

When was the last time you heard of a final drive failure on a 900+ lb Goldwing? Yet you hear about lots of them on Beamers that 2/3 the weight and less. That's a design issue. Period. BMW couldn't build a decent reverse system for the K/LT so they licensed the design in the Goldwing for it. Do the same with final drives if you have to.

Things like that.

[Nevada]

What some folks seem to be ignorant of are the costs, and benefits, to the company to fix some of these "issues".

Let's take the forks of the FZ-6.  Yeah, it'll only cost Yamaha $200 in parts to put better forks on it.  If they put better forks on the FZ-6, is that going to cannibalize sales from the R6?  Yeah, it very well might.  So, putting better forks on simply means that Yamaha moves a customer from a bike that they make a $1000 profit on, to one they make $750 profit on....    

Now, let's say that Yamaha finds that the forks are way inadequate, to such an extent that customers are heading for the Hornet or GSX-650F or whatever.  So, how much is it going to cost Yamaha to put better forks on it?  A lot more than $200, because anything that effects the handling and safety of the bike has got to have a fair bit of testing done.  Let's say that the testing is going to take $50k, between test bikes, rider time, engineer time, documentation, etc.  How many more bikes must be sold to make up that $50K?  Let's say you raise the cost of the bike $300, just to cover the parts and testing.  That means you've got to sell 500 more bikes, bikes that are MORE expensive, which risks losing customers.  All while still designing the next generation Supersport and Literbike, the next generation YZF, etc, etc.  AND you gotta pay the poor schmuck responsible for coming up with BNG for the bikes you're not changing.

WE put up with the "character" because, by and large, motorcycles are recreational vehicles.  The manufacturer's allow it to slide because, compared to cars, the competitive pressures are minimal.  My guess is that Honda sold more Accords last year in North America than they sold sportbikes worldwide.

Yeah, there are some boneheaded things that the manufacturer's don't address, and if it's not a safety issue, the only way to address it from our end is to simply buy the other guy's product.