msf advanced class

[atljr]

I took the erc, and the advanced class was mentioned, but the instructors couldn't really tell us too much about it...other than what's included in the generic web descriptions. Can anyone recommend it...share with me what's in it? Thanks.

[kendenton]

There's an advanced class from the MSF beyond the ERC?  

[kevin_stevens]

At this point I consider it a pure rumor until someone can point me at some courseware and offerings.  I've been hearing this for at least five years in various forms of RSN.

KeS

[bomber]

I've taken it, twice ;-}

It's a highly condensed version of the beginner's class, squozed down to one day -- it seems to give hte Coaches wide latitude in tailoring the course to specific riders that show up . . . .

As with all MSF classes, the concept is sound, the pedagogy pretty good, the course materials a bit stiled, and the execution highly variable (dependant on the Coaches).

The biggest variable, of course, is you. Most anything can be a good learning experince with the right mind set.

[kevin_stevens]

I've taken it, twice ;-}

It's a highly condensed version of the beginner's class, squozed down to one day -- it seems to give hte Coaches wide latitude in tailoring the course to specific riders that show up . . . .

As with all MSF classes, the concept is sound, the pedagogy pretty good, the course materials a bit stiled, and the execution highly variable (dependant on the Coaches).

The biggest variable, of course, is you. Most anything can be a good learning experince with the right mind set.

Are you sure you're not talking about the ERC?  The Advanced/Sport course is something else.

KeS

[bomber]

Are you sure you're not talking about the ERC?  The Advanced/Sport course is something else.

KeS

You're right, of course, KS -- apologies --

I've only heard about Advanced/Sport classes being piloted at some militarty (Marine?) bases. . . .

[bogfro]

From what I've heard, the ERC is nothing more than the BRC on your own motorcycle.

Take this instead, the Lee Parks course:
http://www.totalcontroltraining.net/index.html

It's expensive, but that class will teach you lots of good stuff!

[county]

From what I've heard, the ERC is nothing more than the BRC on your own motorcycle.

Yeah, I took the ERC when I returned to riding.  3 guys in the class didn't even have a license.  The instructors spent all their time with one guy (who didn't have a license) but did have a new Gixxer 1000....mostly trying to keep this guy from killing himself.

[guitardad]

I've got a couple of friends who have been teaching the MSF Military Sportbike RiderCourse for about a year now.  This is a much different class than the ERC, with much more advanced techniques being explored.  Good course - unfortunately only offered to riders in the military right now.  MSF has been pilot testing a version for the rest of us in a couple of states this season, and they polled active RC's earlier this year to gauge interest in getting coaches certified to teach the civilian version of it.  Unfortunately, it will come down to whether the training sites and state programs are willing to actually take it on.  I know we cancel about half our ERC's every year, because no one signs up to take them.  So if you'd be interested in something more challenging, call your local site our your state program coordinator and tell them you want it!

[bikerfish1100]

Additional Rider Course/Sport Bike Techniques (ARC/ST) is the civilan version of the military course developed by MSF about 2 years ago. it does exist, and is being offered in several states.
Currently requires a full sized range, so many sites that run some version of a modified range can't yet do it.
There 9 exercises, 8 of which are ridden by students (Ex 3 is a demo only to highlight some braking issues). One of the exercises is a direct carryover from the ERC (the "peanut", RE9, officially called "Multiple Curves", for those familiar with the ERC). The classroom portion is a critical component of the course, and is substantially different than anything MSF has offered previously. Riding exercises are quite a bit more challenging than those presented in the ERC- my favorite is "the corkscrew"- an exercise in riding decreasing radiius curves. I was certifed as a RC for this course in mid-May of this year, but have not yet had the opportunity to teach it, other than as a part of the certification process.
Pretty neat course. ABATE is offering it at 2 sites in CO; CO Springs and Mile High Flea Market. Don't need a sport bike to do it, but it can make for a good excuse for buying one.

[kitesurfer]

i've had the experienced course twice and the brc twice.  i found them both to be n/a for me.  i have been riding since '78 and they both are extreme beginner oriented.  i get the course for free and it is mandatory for me regularly, as i am a civilian working on a military base.  they have offered me the sportbike course.  it is taught by the same people in the same parking lot.  should it ever be offered on the road, or preferably the track, i'll be first in line for it.  back to the ERC, if you are returning to riding after a 'sabatacle' then it would be good for you or maybe if you have just bought a different bike (the navy seems to think you need the course with each new bike and after every deployment).  but if you are a confident, regular rider, you might be disappointed in it.

[Mastros2]

I took the Rider's Edge (HDs MSF version) Skilled Rider Course this past fall and highly recommend it.  This year will be Lee Park's course and planning now when I'm going to take it.  

Maybe we should generate a "training matrix" for reference, ie a recommendation when to take certain classes during your riding career?

[KawiConvert]

I've taken the sport bike course developed for the Navy and Marines.  It was actually a lot of fun and even at 30-35mph speeds showed that handling can easily trump HP as smaller bikes were out-maneuvering the larger displacement sport bikes.  It was a few hours of class room and several hours of riding the course and I thought was useful for learning some better techniques that apply to sport bikes and riding styles.  I've applied what I can on the road and found that just a few simple changes have made the riding I do a lot safer and more fun (and a touch faster   ).  

The riding consisted of lots of braking, swerving, and cornering.  The cornering was the best part of it as we did regular turns, skid pad (at least thats how it was setup), esses, decreasing radius turns, etc.  It was good practice and helps those of us who are new to sport bikes (I've ridden for 15 years on enduros, cruisers, and standard style bikes, this was my first introduction to sport bike riding).

As for the advanced class, I've heard that it is more of a refresher with very little new material compared to the BRC.  If you have a sport bike and can't take the sport bike course, I'd recommend hitting a riding class at a nearby track if possible.

[jamesgino]

When I joined the Army I had to take a MSF course to ride on Fort Hood. I'd been riding for around 16 years at that point so I opted for the ERC. I was very glad that I took it. I didn't feel like it was a beginners class. They do teach fundementals, but it was obvious everyone has motorcycle experience and they did try to spend some time on advanced techniques.

When I came home from a deployment Fort Hood has their own 'refresher' course. It was honestly pretty stupid. I've spent most of my riding time on a crusier, but since I bought a ST bike since my deployment I've wanted to take the Sportbike Riders Course. I'll do it soon.

I think all the MSF serve their purpose. I wish my wife would take the BRC class, but she wants more experience before she takes it. I try to tell her that it's a class that is ment to teach you how to ride, but she's just not comfortable riding and being evaluated by others yet.

[bikerfish1100]

 I wish my wife would take the BRC class, but she wants more experience before she takes it. I try to tell her that it's a class that is ment to teach you how to ride, but she's just not comfortable riding and being evaluated by others yet.

that's a shame that she sees it that way. it's just going to make the learning a bit more difficult for her when she finally gets around to taking a class.
if i had my druthers for student knowledge/experience in a BRC, most of what i would want to see is some decent clutch control. beyond that, i'll spend at least as much time getting rid of old bad habits as i will teaching new good ones. sometimes, those old bad ones never quite leave. the sooner she takes the class the fewer bad habits her coaches will have to spend time removing.

[jamesgino]

I couldn't agree more. In my opinion there is no downside to the class at all. I can teach her myself, but I know that after 18 years of riding I could still learn good habits and knowledge from the BRC.

[lizard]

Vaporware in SC!

At least for now there are no courses scheduled for 2010 and only a "Coming Soon" ad.

http://www.scridered.org/courses/index.htm

[loadedmind]

Because I'm a contractor for NASA and have a badge, I was able to take the course for free.  Definitely above and beyond the basic rider course.  Here's what the card looks like when you've completed it for those who care:
http://nalsportbike.com/images/MSF_SkillsPlus.png