Very close call - almost crashed

[kendenton]

I had a big "moment" this past weekend during an otherwise great trip in WV.

We were heading eastbound on 82 from near 19, dry roads with very light traffic.  I was in the lead, with 2 friends following.  Pace was relaxed but "groovy", I was having a great time in the endless twisties of WV.  We had spent most of the day dodging sticks and patches of wet leaves, and this was our last loop before heading to the hotel.

I don't know how I didn't see the stick, but I didn't.  It was in the middle of a right-hander just after a slight crest.  Maybe the crest made it harder to see, don't know.  One moment I'm nicely leaned over (for me) at maybe 40mph, the next moment the bike is moving around all over the place underneath me. My automatic instinct was to get the bike back under control, so I stood it up somewhat.  This of course made me go wide and head over the double yellow.  There was a clear shoulder on the other side so I picked a spot (by choice or by target fixation I really don't know) and headed for it.  

Just got to the other side of the opposite fog line and was working on stopping the bike in the narrow strip between the road and the ditch when I first noticed the pickup truck coming at me with his brakes locked and tires smoking.  I could have ditched the bike to the left into the grass but it looked like we weren't going to hit so I stood my ground.

He ended up stopping maybe 10 feet in front of me, then he drove around me and left.  Traffic cleared, I pulled back to the "right" shoulder and parked up to calm down.

After a few minutes I circled back to see what happened, and found this guy in the center of my lane:



Time for the post-mortem - what did I do wrong and what should I do next time?

First - don't hit a f*cking branch in the middle of a turn

Second - I should not have crossed the DY.  Whether I intentionally did this because I saw the road was clear I really don't know.  If there was traffic there would I have just kept the lean or, depending on how much I got moved over, increased my lean, I don't know.  If there was opposing traffic next to me would I have target-fixated on them?

Thoughts, questions, admonishments, send them my way.  Time for some tough love.

[R Doug]

   That's not a branch, it's a small tree.  I'm happy to see your Perilli tires held up better than mine when forced to roll over a significant sized branch.  

[garry]

It's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, but as Keith Code writes, your natural instinct in those situations is usually wrong. Keep your eyes where you want to go, relax and stay on the gas. Easier said than done for sure...

[Thundergod]

Ride it through...the branch should have caused a fairly large "jump" in your line. But keep at it, no change in the line, just as if you hit a pothole- ride through and maintain.

One time I hit a cattle-guard which some brainstorming engineer put in the MIDDLE of the apex of a turn. Roads were slick from a recent rain, 2up with full packs....we slid 3 feet to the right....then caught traction again...and continued on. Nerve racking- scary, but gone.

[Rincewind]

Glad you didn't crash Ken.  It's hard to think about maintaing your lean when going over obstacles like that, but it's what you have to do.  Standin it up or crossing the center line should always be avoided.  From reading your tire, you probably had plenty of lean left to use.  Take care.

[Bogie]

I'm happy to see your Perilli tires held up better than mine when forced to roll over a significant sized branch.  

I dunno,,,that tire looks flat!

[atadaskew]

None of this would have happened if you had a clean chain.

[kendenton]

Glad you didn't crash Ken.  It's hard to think about maintaing your lean when going over obstacles like that, but it's what you have to do.  Standin it up or crossing the center line should always be avoided.  From reading your tire, you probably had plenty of lean left to use.  Take care.

"Hello.  My name is Ken and I have chicken strips."

I'm sure I had plenty of lean left, but my brain ignored that in the heat of the moment.  I've had a couple times where a decreasing radius turn has gotten me by surprise and I had to lean more than I'm comfortable with, but I guess that's still a somewhat controlled situation.  With the bike (seemingly) bouncing around I think I just freaked.  Bad, bad, bad.

[JReazor]

Holy crap Ken. I'm glad you came out of it ok.

Easier said then done but yeah, keep it leaned over and ride it out. I don't know what kind of line you ride but it might be worth looking at. You might have been able to set up for a better sight line even if it wasn't the most efficient way through the corner.

[MK96xj]

Your still alive so: Ken 1 - branch 0

It is very hard to overcome your instincts to stand it up and it takes a lot of puckers to become comfortable staying the line which is an oxymoron.  

The alternative to this situation could have been:
A:  you held the line and rode it through
B: hitting the wood could have disrupted your path of travel and upset your bike causing you to hit the truck.

[Justin]

If you had a car tire none of this would have happened.

[rgbeard]

If you'd have been on a Harley, with 55 buddies doing 10-under it wouldn't have happened.

[kendenton]

If you had a car tire none of this would have happened.

 

[county]

Were you wearing a helmet?

[garry]

I've had a couple times where a decreasing radius turn has gotten me by surprise and I had to lean more than I'm comfortable with, but I guess that's still a somewhat controlled situation.

A couple or three instructional track days with Team ProMotion would help with that. ART Basic I and ART Basic II are good courses. Money well spent.

[kendenton]

Were you wearing a helmet?

Yes, but I was running full synthetic.

[atadaskew]

If you'd have been on a Harley, with 55 buddies doing 10-under it wouldn't have happened.

'tis true.  The tsunami like effect of the incoming vibrations would have cleared all debris from the road.

[JonS]

If you'd have been on a Harley, with 55 buddies doing 10-under it wouldn't have happened.

Yeah, one of the guys ahead of you would have hit the wood. End of that problem.

If you were on the MTS, which I assume you were, trusting the bike to recover it's composure would probably have worked. It doesn't sound like you were going excessively fast.

[M.Brane]

One time I hit a cattle-guard which some brainstorming engineer put in the MIDDLE of the apex of a turn. Roads were slick from a recent rain, 2up with full packs....we slid 3 feet to the right....then caught traction again...and continued on. Nerve racking- scary, but gone.

 Been there, done that only not 2-up, and it was a right-hander. Nearly had to stop to pull my shorts out of my ass after that one.

"Hello.  My name is Ken and I have chicken strips."

I'm sure I had plenty of lean left, but my brain ignored that in the heat of the moment.  I've had a couple times where a decreasing radius turn has gotten me by surprise and I had to lean more than I'm comfortable with, but I guess that's still a somewhat controlled situation.  With the bike (seemingly) bouncing around I think I just freaked.  Bad, bad, bad.

 One thing I've been working on lately is intentionally touching down pegs. It's much easier to do on the GTS than my old Ninja, and it's nice to know just how far you can go before you start hitting hard parts.

[kendenton]

A couple or three instructional track days with Team ProMotion would help with that. ART Basic I and ART Basic II are good courses. Money well spent.

I keep going back and forth on trying a track day.  I would really like to expand my confidence with lean angles, but I honestly have no desire to go really fast on a track.  Working on 20-50mph corners sounds terrific, but at 80-100mph -  

[OmegaSix]

You have a bit of rust growing under your sidestand, there Ken...    

[Formerly Known as Bigfoot]

Wow.  That would have sucked big time telling everyone I met you a day or two before you killed yourself.  So I'm glad you didn't.  Good job on staying alive.  

[kendenton]

Wow.  That would have sucked big time telling everyone I met you a day or two before you killed yourself.  So I'm glad you didn't.  Good job on staying alive.  

"and I was the last one to see him alive".  Not exactly a great dinner story, you're right.

[Formerly Known as Bigfoot]

"and I was the last one to see him alive".  Not exactly a great dinner story, you're right.

I had such a great time in the area where we met that my plan was to take off early yesterday AM for a two day trip.  Woke up and found something happened to my clutch in the day it was parked.  I couldn't fix it so no trip for me.  

[chornbe]

I keep going back and forth on trying a track day.  I would really like to expand my confidence with lean angles, but I honestly have no desire to go really fast on a track.  Working on 20-50mph corners sounds terrific, but at 80-100mph -  

Do the Parks class, then ride the twisties with guys you trust, but whom you need to chase.

Worked for me.

It's a good intermediate between ERC and Track Days.

[bogfro]

I had a similar experience a while back, with a piece of PIPE about the same diameter as that stick, just a little longer.  But I SAW the pipe before I ran over it, so I just ran wide (over the yellow) and swerved around it.  If there would have been a car, I might have been able to dodge the pipe on the inside side, but I can't say for sure.  In any case, whenever I've got the bike leaned over, not only do I try and look through the turn, but I also consciously scan the ground IN the turn for gravel and obstacles.  So I guess what I'm saying SHOULD have happened is that you saw the stick, and then swerved around it to one side or the other.  But since you didn't see it.....you're pretty much screwed.  Good save!!  

[Formerly Known as Bigfoot]

Do the Parks class, then ride the twisties with guys you trust, but whom you need to chase.

Worked for me.

It's a good intermediate between ERC and Track Days.

Got a web address for them?

Edit:  Is this them?  http://www.totalcontroltraining.net/index.html

[chornbe]

Yessir.

[trflyboy]

Were you wearing a helmet?

Not only a helmet, but a high vis jacket that can be seen from space!
Seriously, glad you're OK! Continuing to lean the bike over when things get squirrely is hard to do. But probably the best course of action. I remember my WV moment last year on the way to Indy. Remember the uphill right hander, when I was over so far and I hit the frame on the Road King? The backwheel kicked out to the left. I don't know how I didn't go wide on that one.
I think Chris's idea about the Lee Park is a great one. I know I would benefit from it.

[3banger]

It's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, but as Keith Code writes, your natural instinct in those situations is usually wrong. Keep your eyes where you want to go, relax and stay on the gas. Easier said than done for sure...

I agree, however one way to correct your natural instinct to “Keep your eyes where you want to go, relax and stay on the gas.” is to make the situation common place and trail riding on a dirt bike will do just this.  Having obstacles bounce you around mid corner, pre corner, post corner is pretty common in the dirt and you will tune you natural instincts to accommodate.

That being said hitting that mid corner on the street bike might have me doing exactly you did.  Glad you and your bike came out unscathed.

[tjhess74]

ken, smoker, myself and his cousin were riding in west virginia saturday too.  the wet roads and patches of leaves in the middle of the decreasing radius turns were interesting.  

i feel your pain about the loss of control...on a right hander, my wet front tire lost traction and i had a fast tank slap to the right.  the front plowed just left of the DY and it started sticking again.  two miracles on this one:  i didnt go down (VERY close) and there wasnt oncoming traffic. there was alot of tree debris on the roads that day, presumably from the weather.

glad you kept it up and lived to tell the story!

[scottzilla]

Geez Ken, can't you even crash right?

I think you should never cross the dbl yellow.  That's a recipe for disaster.  A good rule to follow is: If the object is below your axle line, you will be ok (Probably).  OK, maybe not a rule but it's the first thing that pops in my mind when i'm about to run something over.
In this case, yer brain should have yelled "Big stick below axle line" and simply run it over.  

[CBRXXBLACKBIRD]

kendenton, I have done that similar thing but with a small rock kicking my tires out, no crashing yet other then a butt pucker from having the bike swing out from it.

[Justin]

You'd be amazed, but even with that "tree" you ran over your bike would have probably recovered traction. Of course, if you hit it with your front tire, it most likely created a small "tank-slapper" in the process and tried to stand the bike up. Scary stuff, but you need to fight that instinct to stand the bike up in these cases. You were lucky this time.

[chornbe]

This is where a good foundation of dirt riding comes in. I've actually found myself *NOT* going back to what I'd learned decades ago riding in the dirt and it bothers me... It's why I'd love to get another dirt bike and keep at it. Once I started riding street in the early 80s, I've pretty much turned my back on riding dirt. Now I just do it only occasionally or when I have to (like when we're touring Lake Placid and the pavement runs out or riding around lost in NorCal and neither I or my buddy Wayne want to be the pussy who says "we should turn back!" )

[steve.m]

sorry to derail, but i just thought of how hillarious it would be if those old subaru outback commercials with crocodile dundee chatting about the "off road" abilities of the car all ended with a few street motorcycles rolling by in the final shot  

oh and ken, glad you're ok and didn't take the truck head on.  

[2RR2NV]

I keep going back and forth on trying a track day.  I would really like to expand my confidence with lean angles, but I honestly have no desire to go really fast on a track.  Working on 20-50mph corners sounds terrific, but at 80-100mph -  

DO IT!!  worth it's weight in gold!!!  i have way more faith in what my tires can do since doing a few track days. and learned what NOT to do. i still don't haul butt on the streets, but it is nice to know i have plenty of room to lean and not have to worry.

[Justin]

oh and ken, glad you're ok and didn't take the truck head on.  

+1 .. that's what really matters, glad he'll have the chance to learn from this mistake.

[blackbeltrider]

Glad you came through OK.

Track days are worth it to find out how far your ride will lean. On dry, warm pavement, with appropriate tires (not talking race tires either, just good tread and not 4 or 5 years old), you should be able to lean until hard parts start dragging, without risk of overcoming your bike's capabilities. It is nice to know where these limitations are.

I will be waiting for the updated, after a few beers story version at a future STN gathering where you encountered a two foot diameter 30 ft long log in mid corner at 87 mph where you calmly wheelied the front wheel up and over and did a trials bike maneouvre with the belly pan and rear wheel to get the rest of the bike over it, set it back down and weaved masterfully in and around the oncoming army M1 tank brigade, before stopping to remove all the bark that built up in your chain to make bark soup cooked over an open fire on top of the double yellow in the middle of the road, while attractive, nubile young women fawned over your manliness.

Let me know when and where - I'll try to be there to here the tale. You might even get some money for the movie rights.  

[ajf]

I don't know how I didn't see the stick, but I didn't . . . One moment I'm nicely leaned over (for me) at maybe 40mph, the next moment the bike is moving around all over the place underneath me. My automatic instinct was to get the bike back under control, so I stood it up somewhat.  This of course made me go wide and head over the double yellow.  There was a clear shoulder on the other side so I picked a spot (by choice or by target fixation I really don't know) and headed for it.  

Second - I should not have crossed the DY.  Whether I intentionally did this because I saw the road was clear I really don't know.  If there was traffic there would I have just kept the lean or, depending on how much I got moved over, increased my lean, I don't know.

Unlike everyone else who's posted, I'm not so sure this was all that incorrect.  He didn't know what he hit, the bike was weaving all over the road, and the oncoming lane was clear enough to use to stabilize the bike.  What if it a tire had been cut?  Then his only chance of avoiding a crash was exactly what he did.  I think I would have used as much of the available road as I needed to get the bike under control, just as he did.  In an emergency, any rule can be broken.

[Paulie]

Good save!

A few yrs ago I took a 15mph blind R 90* at ~30, gassed it out of the corner, fwip, splat, lowside.  

I left the bike laying in the very quiet country road & just hadta walk back to see WTF was back there. The entire lane was covered in sugar sand, ~ the same color as the road, practically invisible. Prolly woulda saved it if I'd crossed the DY.

[MDHCO]

Sounds like it was a near thing.   You can second and third guess yourself, but you kept it up and didn't hit anything.    

Had a similar moment, running over Squaw Pass with a friend on a Blackbird a few years ago.   Had to push hard in the corners to make-up the ground I lost everytime we hit a straight.   Caught some gravel mid-corner, the back came around, caught, and snapped back so fast it was over before I had time to react.    Didn't leave the lane, but thought about that one for a long time.  

[JETSET]

I'm glad you made out OK.The pucker factor came into effect.Its hard to shake those natural insticnts but it can be done,and change your drawers.  

[JETSET]

Not only a helmet, but a high vis jacket that can be seen from space!
Seriously, glad you're OK! Continuing to lean the bike over when things get squirrely is hard to do. But probably the best course of action. I remember my WV moment last year on the way to Indy. Remember the uphill right hander, when I was over so far and I hit the frame on the Road King? The backwheel kicked out to the left. I don't know how I didn't go wide on that one.
I think Chris's idea about the Lee Park is a great one. I know I would benefit from it.

Nice Avatar  

[kendenton]

Nice Avatar  

Nah, I liked it better when he was using one of my photos as his avatar - like you are

[Justin]

Unlike everyone else who's posted, I'm not so sure this was all that incorrect.  He didn't know what he hit, the bike was weaving all over the road, and the oncoming lane was clear enough to use to stabilize the bike.  What if it a tire had been cut?  Then his only chance of avoiding a crash was exactly what he did.  I think I would have used as much of the available road as I needed to get the bike under control, just as he did.  In an emergency, any rule can be broken.

I disagree... he said he was in a turn, and therefore most likely did not know if there was a vehicle coming the other way. Also, he indicated that a vehicle did come the other way and had to take emergency measures to avoid him. If that vehicle had arrived just a bit sooner the outcome could have been very different; this was a case of good luck IMO. I've had tires jump out 4 feet on the road and re-grip safely (although it left stains). Assuming you are not riding at 90% + on the street, you should have room for corrections within your own lane.

[Lon]

Delayed apex turns are your friend.

[EricJ]

  Holy cow! I really can't add anymore to the conversation that already hasn't been said. I really glad to be reading the best case scenario and glad you are OK.

Eric

[atljr]

Yes, glad you made it out ok and can share the experience. It's good to see the feedback.

[Nodaclu]

Also had a similar experience a few months back.

Not much speed, (only about 25mph) but hit a patch of gravel in a shaded spot at the apex of a goat trail on a group ride. I thought only my front washed out, but the guy behind me told me later that *both* wheels slid.

As the bike started to wash out, I could hear two voices in my head - one was my MSF instructor screaming at me to "Stay off the brakes! You'll only make it worse!" The other voice was my own yelling "It'll catch. It'll catch. Don't do ANYTHING until it catches."

The moment I felt traction return I smoothly and carefully stood it up. Only when I had it mostly vertical again did I dare to hit the brakes. Talking to the guy behind me later, I said I felt like I'd made a beginners mistake hitting that gravel. His response was that "A beginner doesn't make that save. A beginner either hits the brakes and low-sides, or hits the throttle and pitches himself in a high-side when traction returns".

I always wondered how I would respond to my first true pucker moment. The knowledge that I made fairly good decisions under the circumstances made it a lot easier to get back on the bike the next time.

[GasGauge]

"and I was the last one to see him alive"

Hey...that would have been my line!  

Ken - I'm glad I don't have to take credit for those word!

[sagerat]

If you'd been on a sidecar, you would have just laughed it off and continued on your merry way...catching up with your sportbike buddies approximately nine hours later.

Been in a similar switch and I basically did...nothing.  Just kept looking through the turn and refrained from any braking and kept rolling on the throttle.  I'd like to think staying constant in terms of turn line and throttle was due to ice-steady nerves rather than mental paralysis.  

Anyway, to quote my pilot dad, any landing you can walk away from was a good landing.  Glad you saved it.

[NearlySeventy]

Hey...that would have been my line!  

Ken - I'm glad I don't have to take credit for those word!

No, that would have been my line riding right behind you guys - maybe a couple times!! A memorable trip!!

[Mastros2]

Glad everything went well Ken.  

As for the track days, I am going to either Lee Parks or Team Promotion in 2010.  If you want, pm me and we'll schedule a class together over the winter. Maybe get more stn-ers to go?

[jesse0192]

Good save.  If you ran in to the same situation today, you'd handle it mo' better--that's what you can take away from this incident!  I can relate.  I'm sure lots of us have learned by getting lucky once or twice