ulysses bearing issue

[steve.m]

So the thing about bearings is...

eventually they fail.  Happens no matter what.  i gotta say, the thought of them crapping out after 5k miles is frankly BS.  My question is this:  Does anyone know how the 2010 model wheel is designed to accomidate the second bearing?

I don't like the idea of spending another $400 for a wheel on a brand new bike and i especially don't like the idea of bearing failures.  So I'd like to know if the rear wheel just has a deeper bore to accomidate a second bearing or if the design goes deeper than that.  I'd much more happily take the wheel to a machine shop and have them deepen the bearing bore and annodize the exposed aluminum.  also, bore size?  anyone have it to within + or - .001?  Press fit or some form of adhesive holding the bearing in there?

Thanks in advance  

[whodom]

So the thing about bearings is...

eventually they fail.  Happens no matter what.  i gotta say, the thought of them crapping out after 5k miles is frankly BS.  My question is this:  Does anyone know how the 2010 model wheel is designed to accomidate the second bearing?

I don't like the idea of spending another $400 for a wheel on a brand new bike and i especially don't like the idea of bearing failures.  So I'd like to know if the rear wheel just has a deeper bore to accomidate a second bearing or if the design goes deeper than that.  I'd much more happily take the wheel to a machine shop and have them deepen the bearing bore and annodize the exposed aluminum.  also, bore size?  anyone have it to within + or - .001?  Press fit or some form of adhesive holding the bearing in there?

Thanks in advance  

It's already been confirmed that there's no way to retrofit the new bearings to the existing wheel and axle.  They have a larger outside diameter and if you machined the wheel bore that much it would be too thin.  You also need a different axle with a wider shoulder on the sprocket side so the 3rd bearing has something to bear against.  Another part of the fix that can't be accommodated is the new separate external dust seals.  

Don't get too wrapped around the axle about this- like I said earlier, some folks have had the original (worst design) bearings go ~30,000 miles or more without a problem.  On my 07 Uly, the original bearings felt rough at ~8000 miles when I changed the tire so I replaced them.  14,000 miles later, they were still smooth as silk.  Some people have simply elected to replace the bearings at every tire change, or maybe every second tire change. It's not that hard to do and the bearings are fairly cheap (latest ones are $30/pair from the dealer IIRC).

If you really want the best possible fix in the form of the 2010 wheel, $400 is a good bit of money, but if you can sell your old pristine wheel for ~$200 that's not a bad overall price at all.  

Hugh

[steve.m]

I assume the bearing falure results from too much tension on the drive belt (fairly common in industry).  is there a way to reduce tension from the idler pulley?  torsion spring with lower K value maybe  

Since it's a known issue and i've got the 5 year warranty, i'll just let it ride.  would have been nice to have heard it from the horse's mouth even though I know the dealers were just clearing house.  

Is this strictly a ulysses issue or across the buell line?

[Prubert]

Some of the 1125s were having bearing issues.

To confirm, you can't retro-fit the new 3-bearing setup with a 06-09 wheel.

...and with that I will shut up.

Later.

[chornbe]

So the thing about bearings is...

eventually they fail.  Happens no matter what.  i gotta say, the thought of them crapping out after 5k miles is frankly BS.  My question is this:  Does anyone know how the 2010 model wheel is designed to accomidate the second bearing?

I don't like the idea of spending another $400 for a wheel on a brand new bike and i especially don't like the idea of bearing failures.  So I'd like to know if the rear wheel just has a deeper bore to accomidate a second bearing or if the design goes deeper than that.  I'd much more happily take the wheel to a machine shop and have them deepen the bearing bore and annodize the exposed aluminum.  also, bore size?  anyone have it to within + or - .001?  Press fit or some form of adhesive holding the bearing in there?

Thanks in advance  

Bearings cost about $6/ea.

Personally, I'd change it with each tire swap, just to be sure, and call it a day.

PS... the OEMs mighta just been poorly sourced.

[steve.m]

I think the reason this threw such a flag for me is that i just finished a design review for a vapor compression water maker and the system failure came down to torsional load on a shaft bearing.  i see the statements that it happens on the drive side only and immediately dove into root cause.  an extra bearing is one solution, but i think a better solution would be to loosen the tension on the belt a bit (if possible).  all just ideas though.

[chornbe]

I think the reason this threw such a flag for me is that i just finished a design review for a vapor compression water maker and the system failure came down to torsional load on a shaft bearing.  i see the statements that it happens on the drive side only and immediately dove into root cause.  an extra bearing is one solution, but i think a better solution would be to loosen the tension on the belt a bit (if possible).  all just ideas though.

Oh, I have no doubt that's a factor. But does a slightly tight belt really put any more tension on the bearing than the bike's weight will?

I suppose so, come to think of it... The belt on my Sportie came from the factory/dealer *very* tight and I was getting some whining in the rear bearings after about 200 miles. I loosened the belt and the issue went away. That was ~16k miles ago. No noise, no appreciable play or roughness in the bearings, but I'm going to replace them at the next tire swap any way. But the belt was *really* tight - much tighter than the idler gets the Ulie belts from what I've seen.

[Prubert]

If ya are concerned about belt tension:

http://www.trojan-horse.co.uk/prods/169.html

[steve.m]

someone else obviously had the same thought I did.  good to know it's already out there and figured out for me.  if i could just get one through the dealer where i have all that "loyalty" money credited to my account...

[JamesG]

My Uly is still on its stock bearings at 24K miles. I did notice some roughness at the last tire change but there is no noise and no heat at the hub so I went   and wasn't going to worry about it until the bike started giving me signs of trouble.

Although, I will probably change them for quality double sealed bearings when I get home when I do a bunch of other upgrades (heated grips, the comfort kit, etc) since I am going to hold onto my "collectors item" now.

[veefer800canuck]

If ya are concerned about belt tension:

http://www.trojan-horse.co.uk/prods/169.html

That is one nice piece of kit!  

[steve.m]

yea, i'm ordering it when i recover from picking up my pontiac from the body shop.

[atadaskew]

yea, i'm ordering it when i recover from picking up my pontiac from the body shop.

Lift with your legs.

[steve.m]

walked into that one...

[Jesse]

Bearings cost about $6/ea.

Personally, I'd change it with each tire swap, just to be sure, and call it a day.

PS... the OEMs mighta just been poorly sourced.

The newer bearings are better but there appears to be quite a bit of variation in how soon the early oem bearings failed. Many Uly owners are like James G and report getting decent mileage.

I got an '06 demo  during the recent blowout and have been reading up on the bearing issue over on badweb.  Al Lighton of American Sportbike cautions against replacing good bearings - " do not....replace a good bearing before it's time. You only have a limited number of bearing swaps on these cast alloy wheels. Every time the bearing goes in and out, there is a little trauma to the wheel bore. Bearing swaps should only be done by people you trust with the right tools." http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/3842/317145.html?1207959874

He also believes that a lot of the bearing failure is due to hamfistedness/overtorqueing of the wheel axles - http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/3842/466467.html?1253277523  


Jesse

[whodom]

Note that Al also posted dimensions with tolerances for the wheel and the spacer.  Checking those would be a really good idea for bikes with failed bearings.  You may find a dimensional problem that caused the bearing failure.

One thing you can do to lessen the wear of bearing changes is to judiciously apply heat and cold.  Warm the wheel hub with a heat gun (don't get it so hot you singe the paint) and pre-chill new bearings in the freezer.  I had a hard time getting my old bearings out on my original wheel, but the new bearings went in easily with a few taps with a pre-warmed wheel and pre-chilled bearings.

[Bueller]

I think the reason this threw such a flag for me is that i just finished a design review for a vapor compression water maker and the system failure came down to torsional load on a shaft bearing.  i see the statements that it happens on the drive side only and immediately dove into root cause.  an extra bearing is one solution, but i think a better solution would be to loosen the tension on the belt a bit (if possible).  all just ideas though.

I know a tuber owner who thought the belt was too tight on his new Uly.  He just drilled slightly larger holes in the bolt holes for the idler pulley.  He's happy now.  He believes that both belt and bearing life will be improved.