Buell Ad's, I wonder if........

[jeeplite]

When I first saw the crushed Blast ad I thought, that's kind of stupid. Then the don't wave ad, that's funny. Then the AMA ad, we are winning races, to bad that came out after you got shut down. Now I look back and see, hey HD we're shit canning your training bike, then hey HD we don't wave like a bunch of Gay pirates, and to cap it off, hey this is what a performance bike looks like.....oops. What did Erik know and when did he know it?
How dumb can HD be, as dumb as the people that they market to. They had some great company's under their wing and now they retreat to the old market base like a horse running back into a burning barn.

[Brad1445]

I guess your right he may have been giving Harley the finger, that does make sense when I re read your post it explains the suicide type moves.

BUT! Why are you blaming Harley for all of it.  According to Court and Blake and Badweb Erik had all the power to pull all the strings.  He was in control. There would never have been a Buell without Harley  $$$$ and distribution.

Bad Marketing, Bad design, bad quality are all because Harley thought an engineer (erik)  could run a whole company. Bad idea.

Harley spent the money to develop the XB bikes who's only short fall to some was more high end power.  They acquire a engine from the Best Manufacture in the world. ROTAX RULES!

The dream bike turns into the nightmare plagued by quality control, reliability issues and low customer demand, bad reviews .   The should have been dream bike that will only sell when offered at $5 - $6,000 prices before demand  meets supply and the two year old bikes are brought out of the Basement .

How is that Harley's fault. Harley got Burned by allowing Buell to much power, giving enough rope to hang themselves.

How do you think the dealers felt having to deal with floor plan and angry customers.

[Squidbuzz]

blah, blah, blah.

Brad, go somewhere else.  We have heard you bitch for long enough.  Like it has been said before, go troll somewhere else.

And yes, there would have been a Buell without Harley.  There was one before Harley bought into the company.

But anyway.....

[sagerat]

Brad has a Buell demise fixation.  

[Brad1445]

Brad has a Buell demise fixation.  

Thats true, I enjoyed 5 of the Air Cooled ones along side other bikes like my Ducati's so I love twins and dreamed of the day there would be an American Sport bike that had it all.

I'm still shocked and stunned they rolled out the 2008 1125R in not ready for prime time state.  




I'm still blown away!

[st ryder]

The ads/promotion were questionable, that's for sure. Crushing one of your own bikes? Calling the 1125r a rider's bike, built around the rider, and then introducing it at a track let alone giving it an R suffix, and then saying you'll be too busy strafing corners on public roads that it's okay not to wave back? But the worst was racing against bikes 1/2 the size and then relishing in the win.  

Sorry to see Buell in its current state, and I do hope they're somehow saved or even resurected, but they need new management: get a real desinger, and a real ad agency. Oh, but don't hire BMW's.   ("Do you have a hair stylist?" Yes. His name is Helmet. Bhhhwaahaahaahaahaa...)

[kevin_stevens]

Sorry to see Buell in its current state, and I do hope they're somehow saved or even resurected, but they need new management: get a real desinger, and a real ad agency. Oh, but don't hire BMW's.   ("Do you have a hair stylist?" Yes. His name is Helmet. Bhhhwaahaahaahaahaa...)

Seriously, you can't do better than resort to ad nominum attacks?

KeS

[Squidbuzz]

Why is everyone so stuck on the Daytona Sportbike rules?  It is a horsepower/weight class.  The class was to make all equal.  The rules were not made by Buell, but by the promoting body.  It is basically the Grand Am formula that is used with the cars.  I just don't get everyone being so pissy about it.  It was not like they took the Superbike class and gutted the hell out of it.  

I guess some people just need to have something to bitch about.

[kevin_stevens]

Why is everyone so stuck on the Daytona Sportbike rules?  It is a horsepower/weight class.  The class was to make all equal.  The rules were not made by Buell, but by the promoting body.  It is basically the Grand Am formula that is used with the cars.  I just don't get everyone being so pissy about it.  It was not like they took the Superbike class and gutted the hell out of it.  

I guess some people just need to have something to bitch about.

Rulebooks exist for several reasons.  *One* of those reasons, and by no means the least, is so that sponsors and race teams can decide how much it's going to cost to develop to the rules, and thus pick a series they feel they can be competitive in.

If you've picked a series (or decided *not* to compete in one, either way), and the rules change significantly mid-stream, or are not applied consistently, you have every right to be pissy and bitch about it.  You, personally, I bet get pissy and bitch when your employer, bank or phone company changes the rules on you, because it affects your bottom line, livelihood, or quality of life.

KeS

[DogBoy]

Rulebooks exist for several reasons.  *One* of those reasons, and by no means the least, is so that sponsors and race teams can decide how much it's going to cost to develop to the rules, and thus pick a series they feel they can be competitive in.

If you've picked a series (or decided *not* to compete in one, either way), and the rules change significantly mid-stream, or are not applied consistently, you have every right to be pissy and bitch about it.  You, personally, I bet get pissy and bitch when your employer, bank or phone company changes the rules on you, because it affects your bottom line, livelihood, or quality of life.

KeS

But the Daytona Sportbike rules didn't change mid-stream other than added weight for the 1125r - which could never get to the minimum wieght anyway. The American Superbike rules changed halfway which was inexcusable. However, those rule changes to allow the 1125rr didn't affect the bottom line or finishes of any of the big money teams.


One can hate on Buell for any number of reasons but AMA roadracing rules, past and present, are the fault of the AMA.

[kevin_stevens]

One can hate on Buell for any number of reasons but AMA roadracing rules, past and present, are the fault of the AMA.

Oh, sure.  But you asked why people were bitching about the AMA rule changes.  (shrug)

KeS

[wbrisett]

Back to the original topic at hand...

I drink the kool-aid, so I'm sure Brad and others will disagree 100%, but...

The ads really aren't bad. Even the crushing of the Buell Blast. How many non-Buell boards and people talked about that clip? Nearly every board I frequent. It did polarize people, you either liked it, or hated it for various reasons. But, in the end, you talked about it. That's cleaver marketing. Same goes with the current crop of ads. Just yesterday I was zipping through a series of twisty and some guy waved at me, I was in no position to wave back, and didn't. I thought of the ad immediately. I wasn't trying to be a dick, or blow the guy off intentionally, but I was focused on negotiating a corner I intentionally took at a high rate of speed (I knew this 1125CR would get me into trouble). The helmet ads, spot on. Again, I've seen non-Buell boards and riders talking about the ads. When is the last time you did that with with brand X bike ads? It may have gone against what most riders who think they are marketing people and know how to fix everything in a company would use, but I've yet to meet a single person who has been able to market squat on these boards, or save a company with their brilliant ideas. Buell wasn't hurt by the current crop of ads, they were hurt by HD and having bikes in the HD dealerships. It would have been better if HD had allowed Buells to be sold next to other bike brands at other dealerships. Unless you could convince a person to go into a Harley dealership to buy a sportbike, it wasn't going to happen, and didn't. That's what killed Buell... well that and maybe trying to be too different for a bunch of riders. In my opinion, the 1125 was the first bike that I feel really could have broken Buell out of that funk (and yes, Brad I know you feel differently).

Wayne

[chornbe]

I absolutely love the one-page one about not waving.  

[Oilhed]

If only Erik had retained 51% ownership...
I remember when he sold I was like WTF.

[jeeplite]

I think it was good advertising to break away from the "its just a HD motor in a weird frame mindset". I had the XL883 till I traded it for the 1125R, I loved that little engine around town in the 2000 to 3000 rpm range. It takes a little getting use to using a gear that keeps you above 3000 where the 1125R is happier. I got back into bikes after forty years and the sportster seemed like a good place to start, as the skills came back I wanted something with a little more zing!!! I think just as Buell was making a break thru with the 1125R the plug got pulled. I agree they should have been sold anywhere but a HD big box store. After a couple of HOG rides with the local chapter I knew that's not the mind set I was after. I wanted a bigger bike to tour on so I bought a Springer Classic, probably not the best choice unless you want to tour like it was 1946, which at the time I thought I did! I still love the bike for the look but have moved on to a Concours 14 for real touring. The Duc Sport 1000S was just lust because it's a rush for 100 miles then a torture rack. I find the 1125R to slot between the two sport bikes very nicely, it runs like its on rails and is very comfortable. To bad Buell got the plug pulled on what was a winner to me.
P.S. I rode the other Buells and felt like I was doing a head stand on the HD motor bikes and the Uly was to tall for me. I went in for the slash and burn sale looking for a XT and rode out on the 1125R with side fairings and white wheels with polished rims. Happy so far......

[st ryder]

Seriously, you can't do better than resort to ad nominum attacks?

KeS

"ad nominum"    

[Brad1445]

Back to the original topic at hand...

I drink the kool-aid.......... It may have gone against what most riders who think they are marketing people and know how to fix everything in a company would use, but I've yet to meet a single person who has been able to market squat on these boards, or save a company with their brilliant ideas...........

Thats what I do for a living, MARKETING.  a parent company of 14 companies.  One of teh top rules

1.Never show your customers or products in a bad light.   (blast adds)
2 Not all press is good press.  Most the talk was very negative across the boards concerning recent Buell choices.
3.You need a good product, if it is not perceived as reliable thats where the marketing should have been focused.


If all you say is true than why were there so many 2 year old Buells sitting in dealers.  Cute adds about being different was not what was needed. You could tell the bike was different by the  Water pods hanging off the bike and clutch fluid left on the ground.  

What people needed to know is it the bike would start and bring them home safely.  They needed to know that the dealer could fix a problem in the RARE occurrence it happened.

EPIC fail on Buells part.
Eriks greed and ego to have his bruise colored 25th anniversary bike come out before it was ready killed a brand that had just recovered from the tubers and would now take another 6 years to rebuild.  Harley had no choice but to cut their losses for their mistake of letting the kids run wild without supervision.

[whodom]

Thats what I do for a living, MARKETING.  a parent company of 14 companies.  One of teh top rules

1.Never show your customers or products in a bad light.   (blast adds)
2 Not all press is good press.  Most the talk was very negative across the boards concerning recent Buell choices.
3.You need a good product, if it is not perceived as reliable thats where the marketing should have been focused.

EPIC fail on Buells part.

You do know that HDI was in charge of Buell marketing, right?  

It appears that you bash Buell 1125's for a living.

[nanbil]

Thats what I do for a living, MARKETING...

Harley had no choice but to cut their losses for their mistake of letting the kids run wild without supervision.

Brad, you seem to forget that Buell Motorcycles was profitable.  Buell was not disbanded because Buell was losing money; Buell was disbanded because Harley was losing money.    

[Rogue]

Jesus H Christ Brad, don't you have anything else to do other than bash Buell?  It's no wonder they've kicked you out of BWB!  It's time to bash H-D!  

H-D is a typical American Corporation--it is all about short sighted financial gain.  Anything within 5-years is all they plan for.  

Although H-D's motorcycles are pretty up to date as far as reliability and quality, they do not offer ANY innovative nor high performance products.  They are so focused only on their core market that they have chosen to blindly march ahead on a financial model that is stagnant and will soon flounder into the weeds.  They strongly believe that their core market will NEVER leave the brand.  What they fail to see is that their core market will soon die off and/or retire.  The next generation is not so enamored with buying American if it means giving up the performance and technology front.  They don't have to look further than GM to figure that out.  GM's failure is due to their refusal to release innovate and competitive models across the board.  Sure, they had models that were great here and there (Corvette & Cadillacs) and they have one good car (Malibu), and a soon-to-be innovative future car (Volt), and those are GM's only saving grace that will carry them into the future and into financial survival--which is to say GM does have the capability to innovate and produce world class cars IF they choose to do so.  Their problem is most of the time they don't even try, and THAT is the biggest difference betwenn H-D and GM:  H-D does not have that capability to produce innovative and world class motorcycles!  When was the last time H-D released a world class motorcycle?  The Vrod--and they had to go to Buell first, then Porsche to finish that job!  It's all about styling, sound, and image for H-D.  Their bikes have very little substance behind them.  Ever notice H-D's bikes make more noise than power?  It seems to me that the slower the Harley, the louder it gets!  WTF is that all about?  Now they have shut down the only area they can tap into to get some performance and innovation.  So what does this mean?  It means, H-D is going to pull back and "concentrate on their core products and markets" as their marketing hype is telling us.  What that really means is H-D will simply keep making and doing what they have been doing all along:  produce motorcycles that is just about image, style, and sound.  At least Buell was trying to go head to head with the competition.  Even if their ads were contraversial--it had a lot of substance behind it.  Their message was Buell was going to be about performance, so forget about the Blast!, forget waving, screw all that!  Let's ride and ride fast!  Now that's a message I can get behind.    

Go out and read H-D's latest ad.  It's all about how bad-ass their bike looks.  Oh yeah.  It's all flat black this year, and don't forget about H-D's long heritage.  Heritage!  That's it!  H-D gave up the performance standard decades ago.  I say let the aging Baby Boomers ride their Heritage and Geezer Glides to their graves!  It's time to let the younger, forward thinking generation to take over.  If H-D doesn't want to give us those products via Buell, then screw them!  I will buy from the Japanese and Europeans from now on.  

Here's to you H-D:  

[Rogue]

Brad, you seem to forget that Buell Motorcycles was profitable.  Buell was not disbanded because Buell was losing money; Buell was disbanded because Harley was losing money.    

Buell was shut down because H-D wanted all the money to themselves because they ran their Financial division to the ground!  They gave out so many bad loans to artificially increase their Sales and when that financial windbag began to go bankrupt thanks the failing economy, H-D suddenly found themselves in deep doo-doo.  So they did what most American Corporations do in bad times:  lay people off and shut down divisions even if it risks their future profitability.  It's a classic case of their upper management trying to save themselves long enough to make millions of $$ in stock options, compensations, and Golden Parachutes after they leave (or forced to leave) a company they ran into the ground.

Case in point:  Rick Wagoneer of GM.  Schrempt (sp?) of Daimler-Chrysler.  And whoever was that idiot who ran Ford for a while?  

[Brad1445]

Harley counts it sold the day its shipped.  

Ask the Dealers if they were profitable for them and their investment in tools square footage and floor-plan. The dealers were left to figure out what to do with these bikes that left the factory with multiple flaws.  How do you sell that.  There is only one way.  Lower the price to $5,000.  Not a great business plan.  Supply and demand.  Notice they are not discounting the XB bikes as heavily as the BRAND NEW 1125, why would that be?You seem to forget Harley was having to stop production do to low demand.

[kevin_stevens]

"ad nominum"    

It's a thinker.

KeS

[kevin_stevens]

Harley counts it sold the day its shipped.  

Ask the Dealers if they were profitable for them and their investment in tools square footage and floor-plan. The dealers were left to figure out what to do with these bikes that left the factory with multiple flaws.  How do you sell that.  There is only one way.  Lower the price to $5,000.  Not a great business plan.  Supply and demand.  Notice they are not discounting the XB bikes as heavily as the BRAND NEW 1125, why would that be?You seem to forget Harley was having to stop production do to low demand.

So now you're saying Harley discontinued the Buell line, even though it was profitable for them, in order to protect their dealers?

KeS

[nanbil]

You seem to forget Harley was having to stop production do to low demand.

Exactly, HD motorcycles were (still are) gathering dust on showroom floors (you're supporting my point here). Harley dropped Buell because Harley was in trouble.  Buell was one of the few parts of Harley that was profitable.  

[falconati]

I loved all of the newer print ads - they all positioned Buell as a sport bike company in my mind, and made me go to their website.

[Brad1445]

Exactly, HD motorcycles were (still are) gathering dust on showroom floors (you're supporting my point here). Harley dropped Buell because Harley was in trouble.  Buell was one of the few parts of Harley that was profitable.  

ask a dealer

[Brad1445]

Brad, you seem to forget that Buell Motorcycles was profitable.  Buell was not disbanded because Buell was losing money; Buell was disbanded because Harley was losing money.    

How can they be profitable if no one is buying them?  The only way they got them to move is $5000 rebates.

If they were profitable, which makes no sense to shut down something that is, is of they were used on Harleys ledgers,  allowed free rent in the harley stores square footage and free floorplan and Harley paid for the bad ads.

Again for Harley the bike is sold when they transfer it to the dealer.  The dealers were taking the soaking thats why Buell stores were closing left and right before production shut down.  Dealers don't make money on a bike that they payed to sit on  for two years depreciating the whole time until you finally let go and then sell below invoice.  The dealers got screwed by a bad product at a time the economy would not allow R&D dollars to quickly develop a replacement,and get it right or the marketing dollars it would take to relaunch a new model with a new smell  to dissociated with the 1125 stink.

I guarantee you Dealers are happy they will not have to deal with the 1125 supply/demand issues anymore, harley gets a one year write off after dumping years of $$$  into development.  

The ones that got screwed were us loyal customers who bought over and over until someone polluted the well.  We never got out water cooled Buell we waited patiently for.

[wbrisett]

How can they be profitable if no one is buying them?  The only way they got them to move is $5000 rebates.

If they were profitable, which makes no sense to shut down something that is...

Both the XB and 1125 series were selling in this area. Both Buell dealers were moving them. Last quarter Cowboy HD sold 15 Buells (combo of both XB and 1125 series). Now, compare that to the 258 big twins they sold and it's nothing, but numbers aren't always the telling story. On a brand neutral board, like this one how many sport bike people can you convince to go to the HD dealer to look at a sport bike? Not many, and that is in part I think part of the failure. Earlier this month, two weeks prior to the announcement, I was in the other HD dealership talking numbers on the 1125CR. While I was there, a guy with his under 8 YO son came in and were ogling the 1125R, I chatted with him a few minutes while they were figuring out my numbers with and without a trade. The guy wanders outside to look at two more R bikes they had lined up by the door. I mentioned to one of the sales people that the guy was looking to buy an 1125R. So, what's he do, wanders off to talk to somebody looking at the HD. The guy finally ended up leaving without a sales person speaking to him. So, you tell me how in the hell you move product when even knowing somebody is interested in a bike, he gets ignored? That is why I think the plug was pulled. Too little interest even from dealerships that sold them.

You bring up an interesting point and I think one that both sides are misrepresenting a bit. Buell was only marginally profitable. They had a few good quarters, but if you look at the past earnings statements by HD, this quarter was brutal to every one of the segments HD was involved in, Buell included. As many editorials and business folks have said, Buell was for all practical purposes a rounding error to HD. That's what killed them. New guy, known for being a hatchet-man takes over, doesn't really know squat about motorcycles and simply looks at numbers. They don't add up to him and he and the board of directors kills the brand. If you hate Buell, it was the right move. If you like Buell, it was the wrong move. But, chances are they looked simply on how much money they had to spend to keep things going and said, we don't want to be in that segment anymore. Even if they were profitable, they weren't bringing in so much cash that it made sense for them.

I think the company could have and should have been treated better, but I've seen the very same thing happen at my company. New CEO comes in, known as a hatchet-man, immediately looks at our businesses and kills a couple. Some which were making money, but he felt we needed to focus on our "core strengths". Later, as I suspected, he setup a buy-out from another company and we were absorbed in that deal. We had one remaining company that worked more or less independently from the rest of the company and recently they were brought into the fold with about 40% of the employees losing their jobs. Again, they were only marginally profitable and the company wanted to redirect focus.

The only other thing I think you need, in particular, to stop harping on is the $5,000 rebates dealers got on the 1125s. Did it move the bikes? Yes. But who bought them? According to several dealers it is a 50-50 (or 60-40) group made up of existing Buell owners and new Buell owners. A lot of the new owners bought because of price, while existing owners tended to buy because it was their last chance to get their hands on the 1125. Yes, price helped move the product, but so did the cash for clunkers in the auto industry and if you use your logic, then all of the cars sold were crap and sitting on the dealer's lots because they were not worth producing and the only reason they sold was because somebody offered up $4000 cash as the incentive to move them. Again, bargins help, but I'm sure some of the people who bought during that time were ready to buy, they simply got a better deal and that's what really sold them.

The bottom line is not everything was rosy at Buell. They had issues, like any manufacturer, but I don't think they received a fair shake from HD either. I know your history with Buell was fine until you had issues with a bike, but now you simply think the whole line is plagued with issues. I think the nearly 15,000 trouble-free miles my buddy has on his 1125R speaks for itself. I think a lot of us are getting tired of you constantly bashing Buell and constantly bringing up the same old flipping song; it grows tiring.

[st ryder]

Why is everyone so stuck on the Daytona Sportbike rules?  It is a horsepower/weight class.  The class was to make all equal.  The rules were not made by Buell, but by the promoting body.  It is basically the Grand Am formula that is used with the cars.  I just don't get everyone being so pissy about it.  It was not like they took the Superbike class and gutted the hell out of it.  

I guess some people just need to have something to bitch about.

Somethings can be legal, but still be wrong. It's then up to the individual to decide if he wants to be assocaited with taking advantage of "loop hole" laws. It's a matter of character, not lawfulness. So, it's not a bitch, it's a comment on what is preceived to be right and wrong, regardless of legalities.

I think Buell's public image took a major hit when they decided to race against 600cc bikes. You may not. That's cool. I hope it's over and done with.    

[Rincewind]

I absolutely love the one-page one about not waving.  

I like that the guy waving is riding a Triumph, nonchalantly taking the turn, sending a cheerio..

.. and the Buell guy is all like - no, I have my serious face on right now, look at me, I'm apexing, I can't wave dammit.




And meanwhile Buell has tanked and the Triumph guy is still nonchalantly riding on..  

[bomber]

It's a matter of character, not lawfulness. So, it's not a bitch, it's a comment on what is preceived to be right and wrong, regardless of legalities.

Something tells me you never raced, ST . . . . . . . . . it is a well known fact that every racer has to resposnibilities:

1 -- race as well as they possibly can, and
2 -- use the heck out of any rulebook loophole that may, or may not, exist.

Nature of the beast.

But, as you pointed out, insofar as Buell, the Iron Tower has rendered it a moot point.

[chornbe]

Somethings can be legal, but still be wrong. It's then up to the individual to decide if he wants to be assocaited with taking advantage of "loop hole" laws. It's a matter of character, not lawfulness. So, it's not a bitch, it's a comment on what is preceived to be right and wrong, regardless of legalities.

I think Buell's public image took a major hit when they decided to race against 600cc bikes. You may not. That's cool. I hope it's over and done with.    

Let's remember tho', that while Buell did *not* petition for special exclusions on the class rules, Ducati did (and got it).

IIRC, the Buell bike that won was a privateer team and not a factory-sponsored team, right? The racing team took advantage of the loophole, not Erik himself (IIRC).

Ducati - the factory - DID get involved in having the rules changed for Superbike, by petitioning for a 10% overage of CCs for twins (so they could run the 1098 in the 1000cc class). Superbike officials permitted a 20% overage and now Ducati runs the 1198. No one seems too bent up about that.  

Personally... I don't care. Erik said himself in an interview that he basically gave up building race-prepped bikes and wanted to build one of the best street-going sport bikes on the road.

IMO, he succeeded.  

[bomber]

IIRC, the Buell bike that won was a privateer team and not a factory-sponsored team, right?

Yessir -- privateer team (though a number of Buell employees were helping).

[wbrisett]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-tc-biz-cycles-1029-1030-nov02,0,6284551.story

Here is WHY Buell was killed. Sales across the board are down 37%, with sportbikes and cruisers making up a majority of that.

Wayne

[Rogue]

.. and the Buell guy is all like - no, I have my serious face on right now, look at me, I'm apexing, I can't wave dammit.

Who waves when riding the twisties?  That's stupid.  

That's really what the ad was all about and I would have to agree--if you are sport-riding don't wave!

[Brad1445]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-tc-biz-cycles-1029-1030-nov02,0,6284551.story

Here is WHY Buell was killed. Sales across the board are down 37%, with sportbikes and cruisers making up a majority of that.

Wayne

The article you quote starts out;

A little over a year ago, it looked as if fuel-sipping motorcycles might be the option for motorists facing increasing gas prices.

This year, little seems to be working for bike manufacturers

_____________________


1125's were sitting uncrated since late 2007

[scottzilla]

Thats what I do for a living, MARKETING.  a parent company of 14 companies.  One of teh top rules

1.Never show your customers or products in a bad light.   (blast adds)
2 Not all press is good press.  Most the talk was very negative across the boards concerning recent Buell choices.
3.You need a good product, if it is not perceived as reliable thats where the marketing should have been focused.


If all you say is true than why were there so many 2 year old Buells sitting in dealers.  Cute adds about being different was not what was needed. You could tell the bike was different by the  Water pods hanging off the bike and clutch fluid left on the ground.  

What people needed to know is it the bike would start and bring them home safely.  They needed to know that the dealer could fix a problem in the RARE occurrence it happened.

EPIC fail on Buells part.
Eriks greed and ego to have his bruise colored 25th anniversary bike come out before it was ready killed a brand that had just recovered from the tubers and would now take another 6 years to rebuild.  Harley had no choice but to cut their losses for their mistake of letting the kids run wild without supervision.

I agree.

[scottzilla]

I like that the guy waving is riding a Triumph, nonchalantly taking the turn, sending a cheerio..

.. and the Buell guy is all like - no, I have my serious face on right now, look at me, I'm apexing, I can't wave dammit.




And meanwhile Buell has tanked and the Triumph guy is still nonchalantly riding on..  

Well, if the Buell guy removed one hand from the bar to wave, he would be tank slapped chucked in to the woods.

[sagerat]

Evidently, you don't meet the nicest people on a Buell.  Non-waving grumps.  

[Rincewind]

Who waves when riding the twisties?  That's stupid.  

That's really what the ad was all about and I would have to agree--if you are sport-riding don't wave!

Drop a wave while cranked over?  Sure, I do that sometimes.  And some people are even comfortable enough to wave back mid-corner, if you can imagine!

But not if they're super-serious-Buell riders of course.  Then they're are living on the 10/10ths edge, which is a great attitude to promote for street riding anyway.

[scottzilla]

Evidently, you don't meet the nicest people on a Buell.  Non-waving grumps.  

Cut us some slack.  We're just trying to keep up!

[Oilhed]

Ducati - the factory - DID get involved in having the rules changed for Superbike, by petitioning for a 10% overage of CCs for twins (so they could run the 1098 in the 1000cc class). Superbike officials permitted a 20% overage and now Ducati runs the 1198. No one seems too bent up about that.  

If I recall first it was 750cc and twins could run 1000cc (triples 900cc).  Then when Ducati started winning it was 1000cc for all.  Then it was realized that the twins were down quite a few HP.  It makes sense to make the field level by weight and HP regardless of cc.  Do you want it do be all identical inline fours?

[chornbe]

If I recall first it was 750cc and twins could run 1000cc (triples 900cc).  Then when Ducati started winning it was 1000cc for all.  Then it was realized that the twins were down quite a few HP.  It makes sense to make the field level by weight and HP regardless of cc.  Do you want it do be all identical inline fours?

That wasn't my point. My point was that everyone's bitching because a PRIVATEER ran a Buell twin against smaller CCs engines, but no one's bitching when Ducati (factory) does it... and as you point out, it's something WITHIN the race organizer's rules.

So it's an invalid argument to use AGAINST Buell but NOT against Ducati.

That's all I'm saying... ie... "pick a new argument guys - that one's lame". That's all.

[DogBoy]

Somethings can be legal, but still be wrong. It's then up to the individual to decide if he wants to be assocaited with taking advantage of "loop hole" laws. It's a matter of character, not lawfulness. So, it's not a bitch, it's a comment on what is preceived to be right and wrong, regardless of legalities.

I think Buell's public image took a major hit when they decided to race against 600cc bikes. You may not. That's cool. I hope it's over and done with.    

And how did Aprilia's "public image" manage racing a 1000cc twin in the same class?

[st ryder]

Ducati - the factory - DID get involved in having the rules changed for Superbike, by petitioning for a 10% overage of CCs for twins (so they could run the 1098 in the 1000cc class). Superbike officials permitted a 20% overage and now Ducati runs the 1198. No one seems too bent up about that.  

Since you're good with numbers, I'll let you figure out the difference in percentage between a 1125cc bike and a 600cc bike. At least Ducati competes against and beats the best litre superbikes in the world.

...he basically gave up building race-prepped bikes and wanted to build one of the best street-going sport bikes on the road.

Is that the 1125*R!*, maybe?   When it's not good enough to race against other litre superbikes, call it a rider's bike; yes, I get the marketing genius. To bad about the 1125*rr* though. Now *that* bike looks great and my guess is it would have been very competitive against bikes its own size.  

[chornbe]

I was speaking of the XB in regards to the good street bikes. I don't have any opinions on the 1125 'cause I haven't ridden one yet. But the XB.... oh yeah.  

[steve.m]

IMO, he succeeded.  

 

[steve.m]

brad...gonna drag you back in on this one.  i've followed your threads a bit and you say you've owned numerous buell's.  if they're the POS bikes you repeatedly claim they are, why continue to purchase them?  i'm trying to think of this rationally in a sea of irrationality.  I love my buell and can't think of a single reason you'd complain.  my only gripe with the firebolt was it's size, but i have that problem on 99% of sport bikes.

[Rogue]

Drop a wave while cranked over?  Sure, I do that sometimes.  And some people are even comfortable enough to wave back mid-corner, if you can imagine!

But not if they're super-serious-Buell riders of course.  Then they're are living on the 10/10ths edge, which is a great attitude to promote for street riding anyway.

Your trolling.

The ads Buell released were meant to be tongue-in-cheek, with the overall message that Buell's new image is about high performance riding.  It's an ad to ellicit a response and attention.  

Take a peek at Triumph's website.  There are quite a few images in there that depicts riders riding very fast on public roads.

So Pot meet kettle.

Having said that, waving while you are leaned over and sport riding is stupid and dangerous.  If you do that on a regular basis, you are putting yourself and the person you are waving to in danger.  When I see guys who do that my immediate response is they are noobs and don't know any better.  Wave when it is safe and convenient.  

[scottzilla]

I not only wave, I follow up with a text message.

[Rogue]

Evidently, you don't meet the nicest people on a Buell.  Non-waving grumps.  

No.  We are a bunch of angry, annoyed people right now because of what H-D did.  

[Rogue]

I not only wave, I follow up with a text message.

....especially when you are way leaned over and riding at your limit.  

[Rincewind]

Your trolling.

The ads Buell released were meant to be tongue-in-cheek, with the overall message that Buell's new image is about high performance riding.  It's an ad to ellicit a response and attention.  

I didn't get that the ads were tongue-in-cheek.  They seemed pretty serious to me.  

It's ok, I won't expect you to wave back in corners, Rogue.  I don't think newbs do that anyway - it would be too scary!

[st ryder]

No.  We are a bunch of angry, annoyed people right now because of what H-D did.  

Who could blame you.    Truly sucks.

[Brad1445]

tongue-in-cheek?


Naaaa

they were warning signs of the impending suicide but no one picked up on the signs.
No one was minding the store.

[Rogue]

I didn't get that the ads were tongue-in-cheek.  They seemed pretty serious to me.  

It's ok, I won't expect you to wave back in corners, Rogue.  I don't think newbs do that anyway - it would be too scary!

Well, if I get a Triumph for my next bike (which I may), then I will be friendlier and faster.  

[chornbe]

tongue-in-cheek?


Naaaa

they were warning signs of the impending suicide but no one picked up on the signs.
No one was minding the store.

Your hatred for Buell is *almost* as intense as mine was for Kawasaki and my Gen-1 Concours.

[kevin_stevens]

Well, if I get a Triumph for my next bike (which I may), then I will be friendlier and faster.  

I have one of those for sale, too!

KeS

[Brad1445]

Your hatred for Buell is *almost* as intense as mine was for Kawasaki and my Gen-1 Concours.

My father never let us use the word hate, he said it was too strong.


I would describe my feelings closer to betrayal, disappointment and astonishment at how quickly they threw it all away almost looked intentional.

I have many happy memories with my Buells.  I'm pissed that they blew their chance to show the world when they were given one of the best engines available and created a cluster of parts.  Pissed that they did it at a time the economy is down and there is no money to pay the stupid tax.

I have strong hopes the bikes return.  The Buell name has been to trashed for recovery but when money allows Harley could update the designs, change the names, increase quality and hopefully the bikes we love will be back on the road within two years.

[2DFlyer]

Having said that, waving while you are leaned over and sport riding is stupid and dangerous.  If you do that on a regular basis, you are putting yourself and the person you are waving to in danger.  When I see guys who do that my immediate response is they are noobs and don't know any better.  Wave when it is safe and convenient.  

I usually ride with two fingers on the clutch.  Mid corner they're usually not too busy to flash a peace sign but I'm not up for any more excitement than that.

[Rogue]

I have one of those for sale, too!

KeS

Probably next year Kevin...sssshhhh....don't tell the wife.  LOL!

[st ryder]

When you're on the right bike, taking a hand off a grip to wave or "whatever" when cornering isn't an issue.  
 

[Brad1445]

To get the best corner pics, you must hold your hand out as far as you can with the camera/




Many think its a wave till my hand flashes

[chornbe]

That poor guy on the bike needs some help with form.

[Justin]

That poor guy on the bike needs some help with form.

He just needs a Sportster..

[Brad1445]

That poor guy on the bike needs some help with form.

He was doing that as a joke.  On break from air force in North Dakota, he as singing dancing very animated to be back in Colorado.

[Justin]

He was doing that as a joke.  On break from air force in North Dakota, he as singing dancing very animated to be back in Colorado.

Where was that pic taken Brad? My first hunch was Coal Creek Canyon..

[kevin_stevens]

That poor guy on the bike needs some help with form.

And composition.  

KeS

[chornbe]

He just needs a Sportster..

Certainly couldn't hurt.  

[Brad1445]

Where was that pic taken Brad? My first hunch was Coal Creek Canyon..

 Squaw Pass East bound on west side of Echo lake

[Justin]

 Squaw Pass East bound on west side of Echo lake

Oh well, knew it looked really familiar.. wrong road though lol

[atadaskew]

No.  We are a bunch of angry, annoyed people right now because of what H-D did.  

You may be.

But there are far more very happy NEW Buell customers because of what Harley did..
 

[steve.m]

 

[dorklord]

You may be.

But there are far more very happy NEW Buell customers because of what Harley did..
 

There are a lot of very happy new buell customers, but how happy do you expect them to stay with the manufacturer gone? If they really love their buell, they'll be unhappy that there won't be any more new buells.

Also, although there are a lot of happy new buell owners this year, that number is soon going to begin to drop significantly, what with there being no more new buells to own once they run out.

Hm, I wonder if Buell will maintain a following of angst filled, bitter motorcyclists who pretend that they don't care about any new motorcycles, but deep down they weep for what could have been...

[steve.m]

i plan on being angsty  

parts through HD for 7 years, buy up spares, wait for the aftermarket to step up.  engine rebuilds with NOS or AEM parts 15 yrs down line.  If the bike makes it that far, i'd say i got damn good use out of it and buy myself a new machine.  

[JTM]

There are a lot of very happy new buell customers, but how happy do you expect them to stay with the manufacturer gone? If they really love their buell, they'll be unhappy that there won't be any more new buells.

Also, although there are a lot of happy new buell owners this year, that number is soon going to begin to drop significantly, what with there being no more new buells to own once they run out.

Hm, I wonder if Buell will maintain a following of angst filled, bitter motorcyclists who pretend that they don't care about any new motorcycles, but deep down they weep for what could have been...

Are you saying I need to keep my other bikes so I won't be bitter? Would you mind telling my wife that for me...

[wbrisett]

Are you saying I need to keep my other bikes so I won't be bitter? Would you mind telling my wife that for me...

Sure thing. Nothing like having multiple bikes for multiple purposes. The only real downside is that you end up having to pay a very large wad of cash each year for tax, inspections, and insurance. Otherwise, it's always a plus to have multiple bikes.

Wayne

[Mastros2]

Sure thing. Nothing like having multiple bikes for multiple purposes. The only real downside is that you end up having to pay a very large wad of cash each year for tax, inspections, and insurance. Otherwise, it's always a plus to have multiple bikes.

Wayne

Yep!  If one bike has to go to the stealership, the other one is available!  I was selling my 99 until HD announced the demise of Buell. Now, I'm keeping it.