Goodbye and God Bless

[Papa Lazarou]

All of our servicemen from the Great War are now dead.

Thank you for your bravery, at Jutland and in the trenches.

May Europe never again have to learn the lessons you had to learn.

[scottzilla]

Is it Veterans Day in Europe too?

Your message seems better suited for Memorial Day, btw.

[OregonSV650Spilot]

Today was originally known as Armistice Day - Acknowledging the ending of WWI on Nov. 11th, 1918 at 11 O'clock.

[scottzilla]

Today was originally known as Armistice Day - Acknowledging the ending of WWI on Nov. 11th, 1918 at 11 O'clock.

Ah, Thank you.  The OP's reference to trenches had me thinking it was WWI and Google was too far away!

[Papa Lazarou]

Ah, Thank you.  The OP's reference to trenches had me thinking it was WWI and Google was too far away!

It was WW1. The 11th hour, of the 11th day, of the 11th month.

[scottzilla]

It was WW1. The 11th hour, of the 11th day, of the 11th month.

Gee, do you think they planned it that way?

[Papa Lazarou]

Gee, do you think they planned it that way?

yup.

[Bryan]

go here to see a great site on wwi

http://www.worldwar1.com/

[Ralf]

If you can read German, I highly recommend the book "Heeresbericht" by Edlef Köppen. It's kind of a raw and gritty version of "All Quiet on the Western Front".

http://www.amazon.de/Heeresbericht-Edlef-K%C3%B6ppen/dp/354860577X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220992782&sr=8-1

[tbeemer]

If you can read German, I highly recommend the book "Heeresbericht" by Edlef Köppen. It's kind of a raw and gritty version of "All Quiet on the Western Front".

http://www.amazon.de/Heeresbericht-Edlef-K%C3%B6ppen/dp/354860577X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220992782&sr=8-1

Sounds interesting.  Do you know if there's any translations?  I'm trying to (re) learn German, but an entire book is stretching it a bit, to put it mildly.  I read Ernst Junger's Storm of Steel, which was pretty fascinating for it's day to day account of trench life.

[mugwump58]

A little off.... A good WW2 book "The Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer.

[Ralf]

Sounds interesting.  Do you know if there's any translations?  I'm trying to (re) learn German, but an entire book is stretching it a bit, to put it mildly.  I read Ernst Junger's Storm of Steel, which was pretty fascinating for it's day to day account of trench life.

I believe there might be a translation entitled "High Command".

"Storm of Steel" is a good read, but definitely a more gung-ho account of the war (Jünger's book was praised by the nazis, whereas they banned Köppen's "Heeresbericht" for being too anti-war).

For another personal account from the enemy's perspective (i.e. the British  ), I recommend Robert Graves' "Good-Bye to All That".

[tbeemer]

I believe there might be a translation entitled "High Command".

"Storm of Steel" is a good read, but definitely a more gung-ho account of the war (Jünger's book was praised by the nazis, whereas they banned Köppen's "Heeresbericht" for being too anti-war).

For another personal account from the enemy's perspective (i.e. the British  ), I recommend Robert Graves' "Good-Bye to All That".

Thanks, I'll see if I can track it down somewhere.  I have Graves' book on my endless "to read" stack/list, although I'm familiar with the material.

Regarding Jünger, I had read about the controversy over the Nazi endorsement prior to picking it up and ended up mildly surprised that it wasn't more over the top in its militarism (or warmongering, as one reviewer tagged it).  Definitely not anti-war, but I didn't think it was as pro-war as it gets labeled (of course, I could be missing the boat on all that   ).  Although I understand the categorization based on the time frame, and in relation to Graves', Remarque's, and other works of or about the period.  I just took it all with a grain of salt and dug into his exceptional descriptions of life and death in the trenches.

[blackwing]

My Grandfather was a corporal in the Newfoundland Regiment.WWI ended for him when he was badly wounded at Beaumont Hamel during the battle of the Somme.
Out of a whole regiment there were only 68 survivors.
We would ask him about about WWI but he never spoke of it to the day he died at 94 years old
 

[Ralf]

Thanks, I'll see if I can track it down somewhere.  I have Graves' book on my endless "to read" stack/list, although I'm familiar with the material.

Regarding Jünger, I had read about the controversy over the Nazi endorsement prior to picking it up and ended up mildly surprised that it wasn't more over the top in its militarism (or warmongering, as one reviewer tagged it).  Definitely not anti-war, but I didn't think it was as pro-war as it gets labeled (of course, I could be missing the boat on all that   ).  Although I understand the categorization based on the time frame, and in relation to Graves', Remarque's, and other works of or about the period.  I just took it all with a grain of salt and dug into his exceptional descriptions of life and death in the trenches.

I too thought Jünger's "Stahlgewitter" or "Storm of steel" was not excessively pro-war, just his own honest and patriotic account of his service during WWI. I guess after losing two world wars, the Holocaust, etc. any displays of patriotism could be interpreted by some any being over-nationalistic...

Some other military history favorites of mine:

Waterloo: Day of Battle by David Howarth
(Well written account of Napoleon's "Waterloo")

Black Hawk Down by Mark Bowden
(Is so good that it reads like fiction, but is a true story about the events that triggered the US' withdrawal from Mogadishu – excellent research by the author)

Enemy at the Gates: The Battle For Stalingrad by William Craig
(Craig does an outstanding job of describing this horrific battle, including many personal accounts. On the other hand, the film of the same name is total crap – typical Hollywood garbage)

Chickenhawk by Robert Mason
(Mason was a top helicopter pilot in Vietnam who provides a gripping account of his experiences there – a must read!)

[Ralf]

My Grandfather was a corporal in the Newfoundland Regiment.WWI ended for him when he was badly wounded at Beaumont Hamel during the battle of the Somme.
Out of a whole regiment there were only 68 survivors.
We would ask him about about WWI but he never spoke of it to the day he died at 94 years old
 

All four of my great-grandfathers were in World War I. One even came back with a French bullet from Verdun lodged in his lung. Apparently it was safer to leave it in as opposed to risk operating it out   The Canadians and Scots ("devils in skirts") had a reputation among the Germans for being crack troops.

[ANZAC]

WW1 was the war to end all wars - the Great War.

Lots of family feuding going on between England and Germany.  Trench warfare, mustard gas and machine guns turned this into a bloody conflict.

[Papa Lazarou]

WW1 was the war to end all wars - the Great War.

Lots of family feuding going on between England and Germany.  Trench warfare, mustard gas and machine guns turned this into a bloody conflict.

Modern technology coupled with Victorian tactics. Sad.

[jeepinbanditrider]

WW1 was the war to end all wars - the Great War.

Lots of family feuding going on between England and Germany.  Trench warfare, mustard gas and machine guns turned this into a bloody conflict.

Very true it was a time when technology outpaced tactics by a good deal.  By the time they figured it out it was a stalemate.

I watched a show the other night talking about how they used to tunnel under the lines lay tons of explosives under the enemy trenches then detnotate the explosives.  Crazy stuff.  The allies set of a HUGE one that killed IIRC 20,000 German soldiers almost instantly on a hilltop.  Men in pillboxes died from the concusive force of the blast men in trenches were crushed as the two side of the trench came in on them.  According to the show many of them were found with just their heads showing above the surface as they were standing up when the explosion happened.

[ANZAC]

Modern technology coupled with Victorian tactics. Sad.

Look no further than the assault on Gallipoli in 1915 by Commonwealth forces lead from the rear lines by Generals anchored safely offshore    After they landed, our boys took the high ground but were recalled back to the beachhead because they were exceeding orders = another  

[Papa Lazarou]

Look no further than the assault on Gallipoli in 1915 by Commonwealth forces lead from the rear lines by Generals anchored safely offshore    After they landed, our boys took the high ground but were recalled back to the beachhead because they were exceeding orders = another  

That was an early Winston Churchill fail.

Both the Turks and the Anzacs were brave. Very.

[Ralf]

WW1 was the war to end all wars - the Great War.

Lots of family feuding going on between England and Germany.  Trench warfare, mustard gas and machine guns turned this into a bloody conflict.

Actually, IIRC, Robert Graves says in "Good-Bye to All That" that after the war there was no animosity between the Brits and Germans, in fact a certain amount of admiration for their mutual bravery, whereas the Brits held a low view of the French...

But what does this all have to do with motorcycles anyway?   Oh, right! T.E. Lawrence was an avid motorcyclist  

[ANZAC]

That was an early Winston Churchill fail.

Both the Turks and the Anzacs were brave. Very.

I did not know that Sir Winston was involved with Gallipoli - I thought that one was a Sir Ian Hamilton affair/fail.

As far as family feuding - look at Queen Victoria's family with the German Kaiser (Willie) as her Grandson.  Royalty is royalty and they do hang together.

[Papa Lazarou]

I did not know that Sir Winston was involved with Gallipoli - I thought that one was a Sir Ian Hamilton affair/fail.

As far as family feuding - look at Queen Victoria's family with the German Kaiser (Willie) as her Grandson.  Royalty is royalty and they do hang together.

Churchill dreamed up the whole thing as First Lord of the Admiralty.

[blkhrt81]

Gallipoli was Churchills idea, but it does seem from what I've read that the commanders there did an extremely poor job of execution.  And in common with so much of the war, kept feeding soldiers into a futile operation long after it should have been obvious it was a failure.

[ANZAC]

Gallipoli was Churchills idea, but it does seem from what I've read that the commanders there did an extremely poor job of execution.  And in common with so much of the war, kept feeding soldiers into a futile operation long after it should have been obvious it was a failure.

Yes, very true - the allied forces had the high ground the day of the landing but were recalled back to the beachhead.  This gave the Turks time to recover and take the high ground thus sealing the fate of the allies.  Very badly done indeed  

[birdrunner]

Just recently the last Canadian Vet of WWI passed away.

He'd signed up, but the war ended before he got there.

None the less,  he must have been a brave man, as by that phase, everyone knew what a meatlocker it was.   (1 % of Canadian Population were killed, 2.5% were injured.)

[birdrunner]

My Grandfather was a corporal in the Newfoundland Regiment.WWI ended for him when he was badly wounded at Beaumont Hamel during the battle of the Somme.
Out of a whole regiment there were only 68 survivors.
We would ask him about about WWI but he never spoke of it to the day he died at 94 years old
 

Yes,  WWI,  where Germany unleashed their secret weapon on the Colonies.   ................   British Generals.