ATK & Hyosung get inside the Harley dealer network

[DaleFranks]

S&T motorcycles, the Korean manufacturer of the Hyosung brand motorcycles will be working directly with ATK motorcycles, the US manufacturer of dirt bikes.  Together they will produce a motorcycle that will be largely produced in Korea by Hyosung and  assembled in the USA by ATK.  These ATK-badged motorcycles will be smaller displacement motorcycles that will be sold in selected Harley-Davidson dealerships.

Sources close to the deal tell me that ATK may also begin selling their off-road motorcycles in some Harley dealerships as well.  It is not yet entirely clear which of the ATK-badged Hyosungs will be made available to the Harley Dealers, although the new 700cc Aquila is a likely candidate.

Sources also tell me that it is possible–although exactly how possible is still unclear–for modified versions of the 250cc and 650cc cruisers and sportbikes, with new bodywork created by ATK, are candidates for those dealers who desire them.

UPDATE:

This has nothing to do with Harley-Davidson.  HD is aware of what is happening, but does not endorse it.

This is purely a deal between some select Harley dealers, and ATK's Frank White, who pushed the deal through.

The MoCo has their hands completely off on this one.

[bomber]

Well, given HDI's actions lately, this isn't all that off the page.

I want to watch the HOG chapters stroming the dealerships with torches and pitchforks, though -- if they called Buells "Jap Crap," Hyonsung will really make em all wamr and fuzzy.

A potential good move on HD's part, since they've proven incapable of moving in different directions on their own.

I hope it works out for em.

[jhawk]

One of the local Harley dealerships also sells Andretti-Beneli motor scooters. They even had a promo a few months ago, where they gave away a scooter with the purchase of a new Harley.  

[Lon]

Sources also tell me that it is possible–although exactly how possible is still unclear–for modified versions of the 250cc and 650cc cruisers and sportbikes, with new bodywork created by ATK, are candidates for those dealers who desire them.

The 650 Avitar is a totally rad cruiser.  I wonder what HD fans would say about it, given that it puts out 71 horsepower (that's about what a stock TC96 puts out).

Well, given HDI's actions lately, this isn't all that off the page.

I want to watch the HOG chapters stroming the dealerships with torches and pitchforks, though -- if they called Buells "Jap Crap," Hyonsung will really make em all wamr and fuzzy.

A potential good move on HD's part, since they've proven incapable of moving in different directions on their own.

HOG chapter members typically don't 'strom'.  

It would actually bring good beginner bikes to their dealers (not that the Buell Blast was bad; it wasn't, but 1 beginner bike in the whole line-up... sad ).  Let's be serious, the 883 is a good bike, but it's not a great beginner bike.

The 250 Comet certainly is, as is the 250 Aquila (or even 650 Avitar)...

It's income w/o any manufacturing costs or pesky employees.  Pretty good margins there.  I'm sure the new CEO would like the idea, since he seems to care more about profit/operating margins than motorcycles or motorcycle technology.  

[chornbe]

The more I see this thing, the fuglier it gets. It's reminiscent of BMW's R1200-C in some of its lines, but man... it just looks sooooo cobbled together. And cheap.  

[DaleFranks]

This has nothing to do with Harley-Davidson.  HD is aware of what is happening, but does not endorse it.

Tis is purely a deal between some select Harley dealers, and ATK's Frank White, who pushed the deal through.

The MoCo has their hands completely off on this one.

[Papa Lazarou]

The more I see this thing, the fuglier it gets. It's reminiscent of BMW's R1200-C in some of its lines, but man... it just looks sooooo cobbled together. And cheap.  

But actually not a bad bike. Unlike other Hyosungs. Retch.

[Paulie]

The more I see this thing, the fuglier it gets. It's reminiscent of BMW's R1200-C in some of its lines, ...

The R1200C is King Fugly.  Painted shit-brown, just to make sure it ruins yer lunch.  

[scottzilla]

I test rode a Hyosung a few years ago (My Honda dealer threw me the keys and laughed).
Horrible, horrible motorcycle.

[desertxxrider]

Who built the Harley Rapido?

[chornbe]

Who built the Harley Rapido?

Wasn't that Cagiva?

Aermacchi in Italy

[HipGnosis]

Can I copywright slang?  If so, I'm claiming Korean Kimchi.  Anyone that uses that phrase from now on owes me $0.008.   $0.06 if they print it.

I find it VERY hard to believe that H-D doesn't have a legally castrating hold on what can & can't be sold at 'their' dealerships.

[jeepinbanditrider]

Can I copywright slang?  If so, I'm claiming Korean Kimchi.  Anyone that uses that phrase from now on owes me $0.008.   $0.06 if they print it.

I find it VERY hard to believe that H-D doesn't have a legally castrating hold on what can & can't be sold at 'their' dealerships.

IIRC some of that is true but there were some dealerships that were "grandfathered" in when the new rules came out.  My example is the HD dealership out in Ruidoso, NM also sells Honda, Yamaha ect IIRC.  They were doing that long before the "new HD" so they were able to keep doing that.

[VAbikeguy]

I know on Oahu there is a Harley/Kawasaki dealership.  

[Baz]

I find it VERY hard to believe that H-D doesn't have a legally castrating hold on what can & can't be sold at 'their' dealerships.

I rented a Harley in Maui quite a while ago, and had a very lively discussion with the owner and his son who informed me that they were into the 2nd year of an approval process to OK some official Harley T shirts they had drawn up & wanted to sell at their place of business, with their name on it. (HD kept shooting down parts of the artwork like the HD name is not large enough etc, etc.)

I would bet that even if the Dealership could legally sell those bikes, HD will put the squeeze on them, like delaying delivery of their H.D. orders, limiting what & how many bikes would be available to them.

Manufacturers always rule the roost, and H.D. does that well from what I hear.  

[Bjorn Toulouse]

S&T motorcycles, the Korean manufacturer of the Hyosung brand motorcycles will be working directly with ATK motorcycles, the US manufacturer of dirt bikes.  Together they will produce a motorcycle that will be largely produced in Korea by Hyosung and  assembled in the USA by ATK.  These ATK-badged motorcycles will be smaller displacement motorcycles that will be sold in selected Harley-Davidson dealerships.

Sources close to the deal tell me that ATK may also begin selling their off-road motorcycles in some Harley dealerships as well.  It is not yet entirely clear which of the ATK-badged Hyosungs will be made available to the Harley Dealers, although the new 700cc Aquila is a likely candidate.

Sources also tell me that it is possible–although exactly how possible is still unclear–for modified versions of the 250cc and 650cc cruisers and sportbikes, with new bodywork created by ATK, are candidates for those dealers who desire them.

UPDATE:

This has nothing to do with Harley-Davidson.  HD is aware of what is happening, but does not endorse it.

This is purely a deal between some select Harley dealers, and ATK's Frank White, who pushed the deal through.

The MoCo has their hands completely off on this one.

What load of bullshit!
The thread title seems to indicate "BIG NEWS", yet the reality is a nothing story.

Dood, you ought to see about getting on with the Enquirer, or maybe, People!  

"Sources close to the deal................"   Oh my, you're such an insider.


Rex

[DaleFranks]

What load of bullshit!
The thread title seems to indicate "BIG NEWS", yet the reality is a nothing story.

Dood, you ought to see about getting on with the Enquirer, or maybe, People!  

"Sources close to the deal................"   Oh my, you're such an insider.

*shrug*

And yet, when I write this stuff, it turns out to be true.  Just like my announcement that HD was making the decision to shut down Buell, which I wrote a month in advance of the official announcement.

It seems kind of odd that my relaying this story here, or that I might know people inside the industry, bothers you.  

[bomber]

Without the Iron Tower behind it, this is a much less important story -- not meaningless, but certainly less important.

I can see the same dealers that supported Buell going this route (as their involvement with Buell indicated some ability for independent thought), but most of the distribution channel, I think, will be having a very lean couple/three years.

[DaleFranks]

Here's the text of a press release Frank White sent me this morning:

S&T Motors /“HYOSUNG” Motorcycles (KSE000040) of Korea announced today at a 2009 EICMA motorcycle show press conference that S&T will partner with ATK Motorcycles company on several important strategic projects.

The goal of the partnership is to strengthen the competitive position of both companies and provide tangible benefits to customers, dealers, suppliers and shareholders.  Each company will continue to be run separately, but will work together on several specific cooperative projects involving new product development, distribution, manufacturing, and purchasing.

“This partnership is a very natural fit for both of us.” added Dr. Taekwon Kim, CEO of S&T Motors Korea.  Mr. Frank White, ATK CEO commented, “S&T and ATK complement each other well and we are very excited about our new relationship.  By joining forces, we believe we can strengthen our distribution network, reduce our production costs, spread development costs and substantially accelerate our entry into the street bike business.  We also look forward to sharing some of our off-road technology with S&T.  The ATK and S&T management teams should work well together – both companies are driven by innovation, passion, quality and demand for success.”
“I believe this partnership will provide substantial benefits to S&T and ATK and both company’s dealers, employees, suppliers, and shareholders for years to come.” Said Taekwon Kim.  “We have long admired ATK and are excited about working together to strengthen both companies.  S&T can benefit from ATK’s substantial experience in the American motorcycle market and ATK’s presence inside the Harley Dealer network.”

According to Frank White, “there will be some differentiation between S&T branded products and the ATK branded products.  S&T will send parts from Korea and we will integrate those with our own American and European parts.  These American-Utah assembled motorcycles will be targeted to be sold through a select group of Harley-Davidson Dealers who are looking for a quality smaller displacement motorcycle to be sold under the US ATK brand name.”  Frank White went further to comment, “The management at Harley-Davidson knows what we are doing with some of their dealers, however, they do not endorse our activities in any way.”

[Justin]

The more I see this thing, the fuglier it gets. It's reminiscent of BMW's R1200-C in some of its lines, but man... it just looks sooooo cobbled together. And cheap.  

Looks like a VRod to me :shrugs:

[bomber]

“The management at Harley-Davidson knows what we are doing with some of their dealers, however, they do not endorse our activities in any way.”


Last I heard, HDI frowned on dealers carrying anything other than HDI -- Uke's caught a ration, IIRC, for their KTM business . . . . .

This'll be interesting to watch, no matter what. Folks dismssed Honda not all that long ago, but they did ok.

[chornbe]

Looks like a VRod to me :shrugs:

It's not the lines that bother me... it's the... I dunno... disjointed nature of it all being put together. It's got a disruptive flow. There's no shui to its fung.  

[ACDNate]

While Hyosung can't be compared directly to the major Japanese manufactures today, I think it's fair to compare them to the Japanese manufacturers circa 1965. I've owned a Hyosung GT250. Was a great bike in it's own right. Frame almost identical to the Suzuki GS500E model, motor comparable in power output to the Ninja 250, with better low end response from the v-twin. Fit and finish were appropriate for a bike of it's level, even better when you account for the $2000 out the door brand new I paid for it.

I've ridden and been around a handful of GV650's. The fit and finish is similar to the GT, good quality but not up to Honda standards. The carb'd engine is as good if not a bit better than the 1st gen SV650's. And yes I have ridden them to make a legitimate comparison. I haven't ridden the new FI models from Hyosung so I can't speak to those.

For the price they can be had at they are hard to beat. Brand new 2007 model GT650's can be bought for around $3500 OTD. Pairing with a company like ATK, speaks volumes of their capacity.

I'm kind of shocked that HD dealers would bring in another line. Speaks volumes for the HD brand's ability to weather tough economic times...

[chornbe]

I'm kind of shocked that HD dealers would bring in another line. Speaks volumes for the HD brand's ability to weather tough economic times...

I think it's more like the DEALERS' ability to weather tough economic times.

I'd sell s'mores from an aircraft factory if it would help the bottom line in these times.

[DaleFranks]

Frank White has been working on this for months, and he first mentioned it to me on the phone back in August.  He's got about 30 of the established, large, high-volume dealerships lined up, and they really want something else in addition to Harleys to bring in younger riders.

The plan is to bring in the new 700cc Aquila, and bringing in and assembling the 650 and 250 bikes with different US-manufactured bodywork in Utah, puting an ATK badge on the tank, and sending them, as well as ATK dirt bikes, out to the dealers.

That gives the dealers some entry-level cruisers, and dirt bikes, to bring in something other than 50 year-old pirates as customers.

[oremike]

I'll bet parts for 10 year old ATK's are still hard to come by. And like my local H/D dealer the parts and service dudes only spoke H/D. My friends with Buells had to go to a different dealer 125 miles away to talk to someone with brand knowledge.  Even after buying the Buell at the local dealer. For what ever it's worth the local Triumph dealer sells Hyosung's as does the Yamaha dealer in the next town over. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Bravo12]

American out-sourcing at its best.  (Or is it really Korean out-sourcing to the U.S.?)  WTG Harley!  Let those fags walk around Korean bikes on their way to the t-shirt displays.

[krakum1967]

Well, new member but hey I like to jump in feet first.

I owned an 883 in the nineties, and I have never been happier to get rid of that disappointingly under-powered and cantankerous machine.  I have had more thrills on a Kawasaki 454, I swear. I tried getting back to Harley with the big twin 96 on the Dyna Fat Bob.  It was a 2008 FXDF Denim Black.  Nice bike, but I got caught in a 30 mile per hour headwind one day, and that bike could not crawl north of 70 mph in that headwind.  It also had a personality that ranked right up there with most manic depressives.  Happy and fun one moment, down and depressed the next.  And Harley Services?  Oh my god, why does a man have to pay 189 dollars for a freaking oil change?  Parts, accessories and services are redonkulously expensive. Combine these costs with threats from my dealer about cancelling the extended warranty whenever I tried to save cash and do my own maintenance, the love affair lasted exactly one year.  I also participated in the Harley Owners Group with my dealer, and it made me feel like I was in High School again.  Seriously, I was the most junior member by 17 years, my wife and I felt like babies there, and all events and parties wrapped up by 9:00 pm.  I know North Dakota has a high level of older citizens, but man was that an old crew.

I sold the Fat Bob this spring, took a loss, promptly marched down the street to the new Hyosung dealer, and bought the GV650AE EFI (red and Black), my second Hyosung sense my wife has been happily riding her GV650 (UM version v2c 650 T) since 2007 in comfort with no issues. These bikes are light, nimble, strong, powerful, and FAST. I have enough power (72 HP with 50 Ft/lbs of torque stock) and a 10500 red line motor on a 5 speed transmission (who ever thought the 6 speed was a good idea on the big twin should be b**** slapped by the way) that allows me to blow big twins of all displacements away, and Sportsters are more of a bother than a challenge.

Don’t get me wrong, Harleys are great, and if I ever make 6 digits or when the lottery to be able to pay the extravagant service fees, I will be next in line to buy a Road King Classic.  But, I took the challenge of the UM dealer in my area, and road one before I made judgments.  Don’t get me wrong, they are loaded in plastic (I hate that cheap chrome I must admit), and need fit and finish work to complete the line. But they are designed to be light, and have a fantastic power to weight ratio.  I weigh 300 pounds and can still burn out on the Hyosung EFI.  For now, I cannot personally afford Harleys until things turn around.

I actually bought Progressive Harley Chrome shocks that they put on the Fat Bob, and mounted them on the Hyosung, and custom fit a set of Rinehart Slip-ons onto a set of Larry Craig pipes, and modified the airbox on the EFI model which boosted me up to 79 HP on my last dyno run.  This power sits on a 450 pound frame with a Belt drive(Liquid cooled too).  It is FAST.  I have had to deal with nuisance issues like safety switches or tip over switches, but ALL makes (including the omnipotent HD) have quirks.  And what do most Harley owners do?  They do the exact work that I did to finish up and improve the look and feel of my Hyosungs.  I replaced grips, added floorboards, saddlebags, a wind screen, made suspension changes, ran through the bike and tightened all bolts and fittings, and removed all unnecessary safety switches that I do not require.  This is the same work I do on the Hondas, Kawasakis, and even the Harley which has a real bad habit of shaking loose the exhaust bolts.

If you test rode these bikes prior to 2007 models, those early models had issues.  But there have been significant improvements in quality, parts supplies, and accessories over the last two years.  They will be launching a Power Commander for the EFI models, and have a range of suppliers for custom exhausts, and jet kits.  There are also two notable forums (Alternative Cruisers, and Korider .com) that are great sources for parts, discounts and advice.

My wife and I own an older ZL600 Eliminator, a 1997 Honda Magna VF750C, a 2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 2000 Classic, and we own two of the Hyosung based cruisers. I look forward to buying the new GV700i that is being discussed.  They are looking at making the serious changes they need to make to be competitive, but I LOVE my Hyosungs, and I am partial to ALL brands.  Whatever happened to as long as you are in the wind for Pete’s sake?

Some last comments:
1) I really don’t care about anyone’s orientation, but comments like “Let those f*** walk around Korean bikes on their way to the t-shirt displays” really have no place on an open forum.  I just find that type of response to be distasteful.
2) Harleys are loaded with foreign parts, especially the v-rod.  Harley is also likely going the Mexican route like GM, Ford, Chrysler and all of our beloved “American” car companies and suppliers.  Wake up people, we now live in a global market, and EVERYBODY outsources, seeing work come back to the US with the proposed ATK assemblies will likely help the Utah and local economies
3) Hyosungs look nothing like a v-rod.  They fill gas in the gas tank, not under the seat. The exhausts, rim design, rake, trail, wheel bases, seat design, handlebars, lighting, instruments, and everything else are really quite different.
4) Sportsters are loaded with the ‘disjointed look’ as they have always looked like parts and pieces thrown together.  That ratty look is part of their appeal.  I love the sportster Iron, and the Nightster, but I am too heavy for their suspension and power trains.  They don’t have the power or comfort I require at my current girth.
5) I think the ATK venture would round out a Harley dealership.  Like mentioned in other posts, the Blast or the Sportsters are not great beginner bikes.  I have personally ridden a GT250 naked sport bike at 95 miles per hour. I could not get the Blast or the 883 up to that speed. (The 883 test was when I weighed 200 pounds too by the way. I don’t know if mine was a lemon, but I hated that bike, it was a 94 model, and it was a dog.)
6) The GV250 is a nice v-twin motor with a lot of power for its size that gives beginning riders a good option to learn on that are not scooter based and they have been in production for over 10 years now (sold first as Alpha Sports, than UM, than directly marketed by Hyosung).  The GV650 (and the GT’s) have also been out for over 5 years now with a lot of the bugs worked out.
7) Hyosung has been working in technology partnerships with Suzuki for almost 31 years.  This will be a big boost for ATK. These bikes run on proven technology.  Look at the Suzuki SV650 next to a Hyosung GT650, trust me that is basically the same motor. That Suzuki is Korean built, I don’t care how much Suzuki tries to deny it.
8) Finally, Hyosungs have a great 2 year warranty on parts and labor at no extra cost, try to get that out of Suzuki or Kawasaki?

Sorry for the length, but I had to air this out to address a number of issues in this string.

Krakum1967

[SteveG]

I really don’t care about anyone’s orientation, but comments like “Let those f*** walk around Korean bikes on their way to the t-shirt displays” really have no place on an open forum.  I just find that type of response to be distasteful.

Good thing you showed up here to straighten us out...  So are you a Hyosung dealer?  

[swimmer]

krakum, Did you see the South Park episode about Harley riders?  The word fag is no longer strictly a negative slang word slandering one's sexual preferences.  I appreciate your thoughts.

I suspect that  is the longest first post ever on this forum.  Unless perhaps Bob Mielke had a longer one.

[Ti954]

Well considering Korean made bikes are complete junk, this will be a step up for HD.

[swimmer]

Well considering Korean made bikes are complete junk, this will be a step up for HD.

krakum  give his personal account of why the hyosung bikes are not crap.  What is your personal experience proving they are?

[2DFlyer]

Desperate times I suppose but I can see this backfiring in a very big, bad, and lasting way if they bring in cheap, ill conceived crap.  A product relationship similar to the Scion/Toyota model makes sense.  To bring in the right kind of aspirational customers without alienating their base the products need to be less expensive, but not cheap.  They need to be competing for the Kaw Vulcan 900 and Honda Shadow customers.

[Croak]

I remember those desperate times in the '60s when US stores started carrying Japanese electronics like Sony, Panasonic and Pioneer.  "Jap crap" that went on to rule the market.

I remember those desperate times in the '70s when major US dealers started picking up Toyota, Datsun, Subaru and Honda.  Motorcycle dealers started carrying Honda and Kawasaki.  All those were considered cheap, ill conceived crap.  Interesting how that "backfire" turned out.

I also remember those desperate times in the 80s when major US dealers started picking up Hyundai and Kia, once again considered by some as cheap, ill conceived crap.  Interesting how that turned out too.

I remember those desperate times in the '90s when US stores started carrying cheap, ill conceived crap electronics from Korea like Goldstar and Samsung. Not much of a backfire there either, just solid, innovative products.

Looks to me like Hyosung is following the proven Japanese/Korean model to break into the US, and I predict that the brand will improve quite a bit over the coming years, and market acceptance will grow as well.

[Justin]

Looks to me like Hyosung is following the proven Japanese/Korean model to break into the US, and I predict that the brand will improve quite a bit over the coming years, and market acceptance will grow as well.

And if they throw in a 10 year/100k warranty then it will really sell!

[2DFlyer]

Looks to me like Hyosung is following the proven Japanese/Korean model to break into the US, and I predict that the brand will improve quite a bit over the coming years, and market acceptance will grow as well.

Like Chrysler before them the only reason Hyundai offers a 10y/100K warranty is to overcome the reputation they built by bringing unreliable products to market.  They may be good products today but it took 20+ years to get there and they still suffer from miserable resale values.  Honda, Toyota, and Datsun brought good product but they weren't sitting on the show room floor next to Lincolns and Cadillacs.  There's no disputing that Hyosung might bring a respected product to market at some point.  But we're not talking consumer product commodities, or stand alone dealerships.  We're talking about an unproven product of questionable aesthetic appeal sitting on the same floor as HD product bringing in clientele that may or may not be representative of those that HD wishes to cultivate.  All I said is it's a risk that they need to manage or it can blow up in their faces.  Hell if I was a dealer principal I sure wouldn't sign up to be the guinea pig in this experiment.  

[Brad1445]

*shrug*

And yet, when I write this stuff, it turns out to be true.  Just like my announcement that HD was making the decision to shut down Buell, which I wrote a month in advance of the official announcement.
  

I beat you by two years.

[BigBeavk]

Well I like the Harley dealers that sell other brands. I'm so glad they gave me an even trade for a 05 Wide Glide so I got my 07FJR that was sitting in their showroom for a year and a half. It makes it easy for those that want to upgrade. I had 40k miles on the Harley, bald tires, valve seals gone bad which they said was "normal they all use a 1qt of oil every 1200 miles" and it was ready for the cam chain tensioner service and I had just plowed through a ground hog so they got all the guts underneath. I did learn about target fixation on that one.

PS kimchi kimchi kimchi I owe somebody some loose change sorry.

[Quickv4]

Wasn't that Cagiva?

Aermacchi in Italy

Aermacchi was bought out by Cagiva in the early 80's

[Papa Lazarou]

Stuff Harley.

They wrecked MV Agusta.

[budah1]

“The management at Harley-Davidson knows what we are doing with some of their dealers, however, they do not endorse our activities in any way.”


Last I heard, HDI frowned on dealers carrying anything other than HDI -- Uke's caught a ration, IIRC, for their KTM business . . . . .

This'll be interesting to watch, no matter what. Folks dismssed Honda not all that long ago, but they did ok.

Uke's has a 2nd building and it has the ATV's a watercraft.  It's not like they are next to each other on the same showroom.

I remember stopping by a dealer in NE and there were Honda and Harley's in the same showroom separated but the sale desks. I think in Beaver Dam, WI the dealer also sells BMW.   The HD dealer in Waukon IA is right next to the Asian dealers and would not be supprised if they were not the same owners.  

[Kat-Rider]

One of the HD stores where my in laws live sells Indians on the same floor.  That at least makes sense though.  Similar products at a similar price point.

[budah1]

One of the HD stores where my in laws live sells Indians on the same floor.  That at least makes sense though.  Similar products at a similar price point.

I would think HD would have more heartburn over that then having a import that costs 6K on the same floor.  

[bomber]

Uke's has a 2nd building and it has the ATV's a watercraft.  It's not like they are next to each other on the same showroom.

I remember stopping by a dealer in NE and there were Honda and Harley's in the same showroom separated but the sale desks. I think in Beaver Dam, WI the dealer also sells BMW.   The HD dealer in Waukon IA is right next to the Asian dealers and would not be supprised if they were not the same owners.  

The second building has been for sale for a while now -- I'm not sure of the status of their KTM franchise (I haven't stopped in for a couple of years) --

The fact that the bikes were in a second building does not mean they didn't catch some heat from the Iron Tower -- they did -- it just didn't change things much ;-}

[tjhess74]

i dont give a rats ass where the gas goes, or who makes the pipes...i too thought it looks kinda like a vrod.

this whole thing would give me a reason to actually visit a harley dealership!  im kinda excited to see thier faces when they have to give that sales pitch on a non-hd product with a smile on their face!

croaks right, all the companies we know and love today started out as 'jap crap' to help get through tough times...

[motoguy128]

This'll be interesting to watch, no matter what. Folks dismssed Honda not all that long ago, but they did ok.

I agree.  Most also dismissed Hyundai/Kia but look at where they are now.  The 3rd and 4th generation of their products are comparing very well to the segment leaders.  They have gobbled up market share, mostly I think at the expense of Chrysler and then GM, but it's still market share nontheless.

[ninegear]

Well considering Korean made bikes are complete junk, this will be a step up for HD.

a freind of mine has a hyosung 250 and the brand new kawaski ninja 250. ones his the other is his roomates.

the hyosung needed a few things tightened on it. like the swing arm wobbled when we rode the bike faster than 60 mph. we just had to tighten it. thats all. the paint worn off rather quickly so we had to re paint a few things. after while he just stripped the whole thing sanded off the paint on the frame,tank ect. and re painted it outselves. not as shiny. but it will last longer we thinks.as for performance. the hyosung has 27 hp @ 10500 rpm. i dont know what the ninja has but it should be around that. the hyosung 250 is also a v twin. my eperiance with the hyosung and the 250r is about the same. cept the hyosung is a bit bigger and i think its heavier. the hyosung 250 is very close if not the same size as its 650 v twin brother.

the hyosungs instument gauge isn't as good as i wish it was. often times the speed your going shows up as a tad bit higher on the digital display.

the kawasaki is built better but the hyosung still isnt a bad bike.

[dinkwinkerson]

S&T motorcycles, the Korean manufacturer of the Hyosung brand motorcycles will be working directly with ATK motorcycles, the US manufacturer of dirt bikes.  Together they will produce a motorcycle that will be largely produced in Korea by Hyosung and  assembled in the USA by ATK.  These ATK-badged motorcycles will be smaller displacement motorcycles that will be sold in selected Harley-Davidson dealerships.

Sources close to the deal tell me that ATK may also begin selling their off-road motorcycles in some Harley dealerships as well.  It is not yet entirely clear which of the ATK-badged Hyosungs will be made available to the Harley Dealers, although the new 700cc Aquila is a likely candidate.

Sources also tell me that it is possible–although exactly how possible is still unclear–for modified versions of the 250cc and 650cc cruisers and sportbikes, with new bodywork created by ATK, are candidates for those dealers who desire them.

UPDATE:

This has nothing to do with Harley-Davidson.  HD is aware of what is happening, but does not endorse it.

This is purely a deal between some select Harley dealers, and ATK's Frank White, who pushed the deal through.

The MoCo has their hands completely off on this one.

Dale, do you really know anything about Frank White and ATK?  Have you been to his "big manufacturing plant"?  Do you know it consists of about 2000 sq ft of old cannondale parts and a tiny office?  Did you know he lost the lease on most of his building?  Did you know that ATK's are just old Cannondales that have been sitting in dealer warehouses until Frank can scrape enough money together to buy one, change the plastic and VIN and call it a 2009 ATK?  Haven't you figured out that 9/10ths of everything Frank tells you is "embellished" at best?  He tells a great story, but there is little truth behind any of it.  

Why don't you take a trip to Utah and check out the real situation before you re-broadcast mis-information and get used as a conduit to market this baloney..  javascript:void(0);

[X1rider]

I wouldn't mind being involved with THIS ATK company!

http://www.atk.com/capabilities/information.asp

[scotteroni]

The R1200C is King Fugly.  Painted shit-brown, just to make sure it ruins yer lunch.  

That bike looks like was custom made for Jar Jar Binks.

[bikerstarfjr08]

One of the local Harley dealerships also sells Andretti-Beneli motor scooters. They even had a promo a few months ago, where they gave away a scooter with the purchase of a new Harley.  

They shoulda sold the scooter and gave away the Hardly.

[dinkwinkerson]

Dale, do you really know anything about Frank White and ATK?  Have you been to his "big manufacturing plant"?  Do you know it consists of about 2000 sq ft of old cannondale parts and a tiny office?  Did you know he lost the lease on most of his building?  Did you know that ATK's are just old Cannondales that have been sitting in dealer warehouses until Frank can scrape enough money together to buy one, change the plastic and VIN and call it a 2009 ATK?  Haven't you figured out that 9/10ths of everything Frank tells you is "embellished" at best?  He tells a great story, but there is little truth behind any of it.  

Why don't you take a trip to Utah and check out the real situation before you re-broadcast mis-information and get used as a conduit to market this baloney..

[Kootenanny]

this whole thing would give me a reason to actually visit a harley dealership!  im kinda excited to see thier faces when they have to give that sales pitch on a non-hd product with a smile on their face!

They won't.  They'll try hard to upsell you to a Harley product.  If you insist, they'll give you a long suffering look, then sigh and agree to sell you the Korean bike.

At least, that was my experience when I bought a Buell (which you'da thunk they'd endorse, since it was at least built by an American company that Harley owned...).

And, I'm pretty sure that statement about H-D management not "endorsing" this, is exactly right.  

[Liquidsilver]

I test rode a Hyosung a few years ago (My Honda dealer threw me the keys and laughed).
Horrible, horrible motorcycle.

 
That's what Keith Olberman said about Sarah Palin, but I rode her and I found it pretty damn entertaining!  
 
 
 

[coho]

a freind of mine has a hyosung 250 and the brand new kawaski ninja 250. ones his the other is his roomates.

the hyosung needed a few things tightened on it. like the swing arm wobbled when we rode the bike faster than 60 mph. we just had to tighten it. thats all. the paint worn off rather quickly so we had to re paint a few things. after while he just stripped the whole thing sanded off the paint on the frame,tank ect. and re painted it outselves. not as shiny. but it will last longer we thinks.as for performance. the hyosung has 27 hp @ 10500 rpm. i dont know what the ninja has but it should be around that. the hyosung 250 is also a v twin. my eperiance with the hyosung and the 250r is about the same. cept the hyosung is a bit bigger and i think its heavier. the hyosung 250 is very close if not the same size as its 650 v twin brother.

the hyosungs instument gauge isn't as good as i wish it was. often times the speed your going shows up as a tad bit higher on the digital display.

the kawasaki is built better but the hyosung still isnt a bad bike.

I think I read a year or two ago that they use the same frame dimensions for both so that big fat bastages normal-sized americans can/would ride the 250.

[ninegear]

I think I read a year or two ago that they use the same frame dimensions for both so that big fat bastages normal-sized americans can/would ride the 250.

i wound up later reading that the 250 frame was originally going to be the 650 frame. wouldn't surprise me.

[R.Markus]

Dale, do you really know anything about Frank White and ATK?  Have you been to his "big manufacturing plant"?  Do you know it consists of about 2000 sq ft of old cannondale parts and a tiny office?  Did you know he lost the lease on most of his building?  Did you know that ATK's are just old Cannondales that have been sitting in dealer warehouses until Frank can scrape enough money together to buy one, change the plastic and VIN and call it a 2009 ATK?  Haven't you figured out that 9/10ths of everything Frank tells you is "embellished" at best?  He tells a great story, but there is little truth behind any of it.  

Why don't you take a trip to Utah and check out the real situation before you re-broadcast mis-information and get used as a conduit to market this baloney..  javascript:void(0);

Proof please.

[dinkwinkerson]

Funny how Mr. Made in USA Frank White is so easily re-badging Korean stuff.  ATK's entire history has been emphasizing Made in the USA and as soon as the whore has a chance to make a buck without borrowing it from some poor, unsuspecting schmuck, he jumps at the chance to eat kimchi.

[stk0308]

Funny how Mr. Made in USA Frank White is so easily re-badging Korean stuff.  ATK's entire history has been emphasizing Made in the USA and as soon as the whore has a chance to make a buck without borrowing it from some poor, unsuspecting schmuck, he jumps at the chance to eat kimchi.

Did this unreasoning hatred of an entrepreneur begin with his use of Candian parts, or Austrian parts?  Or were those OK because they weren't made by yellow people?

[chornbe]

Funny how Mr. Made in USA Frank White is so easily re-badging Korean stuff.  ATK's entire history has been emphasizing Made in the USA and as soon as the whore has a chance to make a buck without borrowing it from some poor, unsuspecting schmuck, he jumps at the chance to eat kimchi.

 

You ride a Harley Deuce according to your thingy over there on the left. Correct?

Check out the "made in..." stickers all over your Harley parts. Just saying.

(I'm allowed to call you out on this: I own, and love, a Harley.)

[Baz]

Well considering Korean made bikes are complete junk, this will be a step up for HD.

They said that about Hyundai 5 years ago and since then they have equalled quality of any of the North American auto makers. (according to the consumer reports).

Don't count them out just yet.

It is safe to say that I probably would not buy one of their bikes, but I do think they fill a market niche. If their low priced bikes get more people riding, then good on them.  

[dinkwinkerson]

First of all, ATK has not been Austrian for many years.  That ended when they stopped using Rotax, (couldn't buy them anymore), and started cobbling old Cannondale's together.  Second, They are not Entrepreneurs, they are flim-flam artists, promoting smoke and mirrors.  If only everyone could tour their "factory" with no tooling or anything but a shabby little office, they would laugh with contempt.  I just hate to see others taken in by this B.S. story.

[dinkwinkerson]

Here is a link to a photo of ATK's GIANT factory.  Note, this is the whole thing and part of it is up for lease.

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/Looplink/Profile/Profile.aspx?stid=/brokers/naiutahcom&LID=16500618&LL=true&UOMListing=&UOMMoneyCurrency=&RentPer=PY&SRID=815996570

javascript:void(0);

[Kootenanny]

Stuff Harley.

They wrecked MV Agusta.

No, they "wrecked" Buell.  MV Agusta is still in business...and the new F4 doesn't look half bad...

[boogeyman]

Here is a link to a photo of ATK's GIANT factory.  Note, this is the whole thing and part of it is up for lease.

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/Looplink/Profile/Profile.aspx?stid=/brokers/naiutahcom&LID=16500618&LL=true&UOMListing=&UOMMoneyCurrency=&RentPer=PY&SRID=815996570

javascript:void(0);

winky - You appear to be the only one claiming their factory is big.  I didn't see anyone else claiming they were ginourmous.  Perhaps I missed it.  Here's a link to another little factory where another company you're familiar with started...

http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Media/images/Content/Pictorial/H-D_History/hd26760g.jpg

[chornbe]

winky - You appear to be the only one claiming their factory is big.  I didn't see anyone else claiming they were ginourmous.  Perhaps I missed it.  Here's a link to another little factory where another company you're familiar with started...

http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Media/images/Content/Pictorial/H-D_History/hd26760g.jpg

tsk tsk... enough with the facts. There are opinions afoot!

[Croak]

And an agenda too, it seems.  

[dinkwinkerson]

I'm very familiar with Harley's start.  ATK's is the opposite.  They were growing pretty well back in the early days.  Since Franky got ahold of them, they have been getting smaller and smaller until they almost don't exist.  Trouble is, they keep talking their big talk like they are relevant so they can attract more capital to keep paying their bills without really producing anything.  And then people like Dale pick it up and make it sound like they are some kind of great shakes.

[Kootenanny]

...And then people like Dale pick it up and make it sound like they are some kind of great shakes.

Hmmm...I read back through this thread a bit, and nowhere did I see Dale making ATK sound "like they are some kind of great shakes."  Seems to me he was simply reporting something he'd heard--that ATK had a deal in place to sell some Hyosungs through some H-D dealers.  I didn't pick up much opinion, either positive or negative--more like "Just the facts, Ma'am."

You, on the other hand, seem to have a chip on your shoulder about this Frank White (whom I've never heard of, and don't care about) and ATK (again, never heard of 'em).  Seems a bit of "Methinks he doth protest too much!"

[dinkwinkerson]

Read Dale's entry on his blog.  He is talking out of his rear end.  You too are, by your own admission, opining on something you know nothing about.

Yes, I do not like ATK.  If you knew what I know about them, you would understand why.

[dinkwinkerson]

 

You ride a Harley Deuce according to your thingy over there on the left. Correct?

Check out the "made in..." stickers all over your Harley parts. Just saying.

(I'm allowed to call you out on this: I own, and love, a Harley.)

At least the main parts are made in USA, i.e. the engine, frame etc.  Sure a lot of the little things are made overseas.  Unlike ATK's new 100% Korean kimchi bikes.  (I do enjoy kimchi!!)

[dinkwinkerson]

And an agenda too, it seems.  

Everyone has an agenda.  So do you.  It is human nature.  So does ATK.  Some people's agenda is more pure than others.  Franky's agenda is to get money for himself no matter how he does it or who he screws.  Many people are that way, it is just that the people that are really successful in life are people who do what the say they will and are honest in their dealings with others.  This is not the case with respect to ATK.  They make up big stories about their stuff and get people to give them money and time for some future payback that never comes, while Frank supports himself with their money.

[chornbe]

Hmmm...I read back through this thread a bit, and nowhere did I see Dale making ATK sound "like they are some kind of great shakes."  Seems to me he was simply reporting something he'd heard--that ATK had a deal in place to sell some Hyosungs through some H-D dealers.  I didn't pick up much opinion, either positive or negative--more like "Just the facts, Ma'am."

You, on the other hand, seem to have a chip on your shoulder about this Frank White (whom I've never heard of, and don't care about) and ATK (again, never heard of 'em).  Seems a bit of "Methinks he doth protest too much!"

+1 1/2

Dale's posts are generally very well stated, free of much (if any) agenda or editorializing. He seems to genuinely care about objectively stating what he's heard, read or has been reported.

I enjoy his posts and site.  

[dinkwinkerson]

+1 1/2

Dale's posts are generally very well stated, free of much (if any) agenda or editorializing. He seems to genuinely care about objectively stating what he's heard, read or has been reported.

I enjoy his posts and site.  

I agree, usually what he writes is pretty neutral.  It could be that in ATK's case, he just doesn't have the resources to really check out what Frank is telling him.  I have heard Frank tell some real whoppers several times.  He stretches holes in the truth.

[chornbe]

At least the main parts are made in USA, i.e. the engine, frame etc.  Sure a lot of the little things are made overseas.  Unlike ATK's new 100% Korean kimchi bikes.  (I do enjoy kimchi!!)

"some", "most", "main parts", "little things".

Yeah.

[dinkwinkerson]

"some", "most", "main parts", "little things".

Yeah.

Harley never claimed to be 100% made in USA but the majority of every bike is made here.  I've been to the Capital Drive plant and seen them making motors etc.  Have you?  The heart of every bike is the motor and the frames are made here too.

[chornbe]

Harley never claimed to be 100% made in USA but the majority of every bike is made here.  

That's my point. The whole "made in America" thing is old and trite. Look, I'm all about bolstering the US of A. But the fact... the undeniable and indisputable fact... is that we live and operate (and now, THRIVE!) in a global economy. Much of what comes out of Ford and GM, especially, is "made" in Canada or Mexico, but we sure do like waving those American flags over our American and American Made products.

It's flat out hypocrisy.

My point is, you were ragging on the contents of the article (for several reasons, to be fair, reasons about which I don't care) over the whole American made argument. It's time to let that part of the argument go... Almost nothing is purely American any more. If it was, no one could afford it.

[dinkwinkerson]

That's my point. The whole "made in America" thing is old and trite. Look, I'm all about bolstering the US of A. But the fact... the undeniable and indisputable fact... is that we live and operate (and now, THRIVE!) in a global economy. Much of what comes out of Ford and GM, especially, is "made" in Canada or Mexico, but we sure do like waving those American flags over our American and American Made products.

It's flat out hypocrisy.

My point is, you were ragging on the contents of the article (for several reasons, to be fair, reasons about which I don't care) over the whole American made argument. It's time to let that part of the argument go... Almost nothing is purely American any more. If it was, no one could afford it.

The difference is making something other than the name plate in the US.  In Harley's case, they still do actual manufacturing in the US which means jobs.  The ATK hypocrites are now sticking a name plate on a Korean bike and calling it American.  That is a HUGE difference.  It is true that most stuff is not made here anymore.  My point is ATK still touts made in the USA, and even lies about "integrating Korean parts with their American and European parts".  There is no integration.  They are trying to fool people, (which is their core competancy).