GEICO rally exclusion

[Slonishku]

In light of GEICO's practice of excluding rally riders from the benefits of the paid-for policy, does anyone have a good insurance alternative that is either rally friendly or rally ignorant?

Any insight on USAA motorcycle insurance policies re: rally participation?

It looks like, per GEICO policy wording, that individual effort rides (everything other than the IBR, Cal24, Utah 1088, LOE 1000, et cetera) would not jeopardize your coverage, assuming you aren't fool enough to go out of your way to inform the claims agent just what you were up to when Bambi put the kaibosh on your plans.

Alex

[Bounce]

there are other reasons to avoid GEICO. not the least of which is their championing of speeding as the primary means of wasting cops' time. they have been known to donate radar guns to pd's. they also have places in their policies where they ask if you use (own maybe?) a radar detector and will not write your policy if you answer yes. if you answer no and they later determine you were using a detector (even in a vehicle they don't cover) they will cancel your policy and deny and claim you might be trying to process.

their denial of coverage for endurance riding isn't just event oriented (while participating in any organized competition) but mey extend to all such rides with wording about riding more than (something like) 500 miles in a day.

[Snowbird]

Yup, Geico sux. Watch carefully for holes in coverage when buying insurance... and don't count on your agent to fully inform you, even if you specifically ask. Read your policy and complain to your state legislators when you find bombshells.

[cjgauthier]

Progressive has one too. Probably most do. I think few people realize what's in their policy.

[jschmidt]

Here are the specifics from the horse's mouth:

In regards to parades, any contest which sanctions riding for 24 or more hours and/or mileage accumulation in excess of 500 miles per 24 hour period may not be covered for liability.

This seems quite specifically aimed at you Iron Butters. Contest is the interesting word here. With such a narrowly defined exclusion, I think your chances of getting it modified are slim and none.

[old wanderer]

Looks like I better pull my Gieco policy out and really read it. I am signed up for a SS1000 in May.

[Cal24Master]

Most insurance companies have exclusions for "competition" or "contests".  Usually it is meant to exclude coverage for racing.  For instance participating in a Poker Run, as far as I know has never been a situation where coverage was excluded, even though it is a competition.

It has long been a suggestion of people who put on Rallies that a participant NOT tell anyone, including their insurance companies that they were participating in a Rally at the time of a accident.  I doubt most insurance companies would exclude coverage, but why take the chance?

As for an alternative, I suggest GMAC on the Rider Magazine program.  They gave me full coverage on my FJR for about 1/3 what Progressive wanted.

[Specter]

I read my Progressive policy (Calif) from end to end, and It appears to be OK.

It all becomes cleare once you understand the name;
Governent
Employee
Insurance
COmpany.

 I'm really surprised they write M/C coverage at all.  

[jschmidt]

Here's my Geico story: I'm a 35 year (not year old) rider with no accidents in 34 years. I'm an MSF instructor. I ride a 98 Superhawk.

My wife is a brand new rider who took the MSF. I restored a '79 XS 650 for her. No years or miles of experience. When we added her and it to my policy, the total annual premium (for both of us) went down by $75.

This year, I'm going to buy bikes for the other wives. I'll bet I can get it down to nothing.  

[Playinthestreet]

As for an alternative, I suggest GMAC on the Rider Magazine program.  They gave me full coverage on my FJR for about 1/3 what Progressive wanted.

I tried GMAC on the Rider Magazine program and they were double my Drive/Progressive premium.  Probably depends on something scientific, as in "which way is the wind blowing today", in establishing premiums.

[jschmidt]

I tried GMAC on the Rider Magazine program and they were double my Drive/Progressive premium.  Probably depends on something scientific, as in "which way is the wind blowing today", in establishing premiums.

I'll go one step further. I tried them once and they were too high. I tried Progressive without the Rider special program and the quote was exactly the same amount.

[Bounce]

Yep. When GEICO opened the flood gates to non-feds, their rates skyrocketted due to the increase in higher risk clients.

[jschmidt]

I was talking about Progressive and making the point that the Rider special program seems to be phony.

[Playinthestreet]

I didn't know Progressive had a Rider Mag program.  What I did find on my new bike was that Progressive Direct (internet) was higher than Drive thru an independant agent by several hundred $$.

[jschmidt]

Sorry. I mean GMAC. I'm getting my high priced plans mixed up.

[bizarro]

Well, because I have my auto and home owners with Allstate I insure my bikes with them. They've been fanstastic. I can't comment on rates much because I've had two accidents and a few speeding tickets. By and largem, though, I've never felt I was getting raped by them and they've handled my claims expiditiously and comprehensively. I'm quite happy with Allstate.

[Slonishku]

All interesting info. I was just suprised when the Cal24 rally pack specifically mentioned that all riders must be insured, and GEICO will not be accepted as insurance. I might try USAA again- only open to DOD service members, so premiums are still under control somewhat.

[jschmidt]

Hey, MSF Instructor! I'm trying to find a class. E-mails to the addresses on the MSF website have gone unanswered.

What state? Go to the local MVA/DMV website in your state. If your state is Maryland, though, go to www.howardcc.edu/motorcycle. Do it soon though.

If you live in Texas, as you seem to: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/msb/trainingcenter/search1.asp

[Slonishku]

The MSF does an absolutely horrific job of promoting itself. That being said, when you do find a course within a bajillion miles of you, good luck finding a space! Given how full the classes are, I can't figure out why there aren't more available. Are they short of instructors or something?

[motospeed9058]

Short of instructors is an understatement.  Here's one quote from one of my instructors "lets face it, the MSF isn't exactly what you do to make a living, if money is your concern go somewhere else."  Unfortunately, nobody wants to take the time to be as committed as they have to be to conduct these classes.

[jschmidt]

The MSF does an absolutely horrific job of promoting itself. That being said, when you do find a course within a bajillion miles of you, good luck finding a space! Given how full the classes are, I can't figure out why there aren't more available. Are they short of instructors or something?

As a business, there's simply no money in it, at least compared to other business opportunities.

I find no shortage of commitment. At all. But as an instructor, the working conditions are pretty bad, particularly standing all day on a parking lot in August. In Maryland, a small percentage of instructors last longer than three years.

Lastly, one of the biggest problems is finding a suitable range; there is simply not enough profit to build one. This may be the single biggest limiting factor.

[Slonishku]

Given how full the classes are, one might thing that charging an extra $20 or 30 per student would be very acceptable, that going rather directly to the instructors.

[jschmidt]

Given how full the classes are, one might thing that charging an extra $20 or 30 per student would be very acceptable, that going rather directly to the instructors.

Pay is not the issue for instructors. The issue is weekend work combined with very, very uncomfortable weather conditions and miles of walking. The physical requirements of teaching are the primary reason people give it up. In near 100 degree weather, the surface temp of a blacktop lot might be 20-30 degrees hotter.

If you do contact the MSF, you'll find that their actual influence on teaching is limited to the few states in which they operate programs. They are the developer of a curriculum, not the owner or franchiser of training centers.

And as I said, the most onerous issue for new programs is finding a suitable range. If you want to do something politically useful, could I suggest that you lobby NHTSA to begin making grants for range construction. With this kind of support, I could double the size of my program (to 2400 students) within a year.

[county]

Good info on the IB exclusions, I didn't know that.  I guess I'll ask to be decertified


I pay about $700 per year on my Blackbird and F650CS ($500+ for the XX and the rest for the CS) for full coverage.  I shopped it and Geico was the best I could find.  Progressive wanted $2000 for the XX.  My understanding from talking to the Progeressive agent was that my location (zip code) might have had something to do with the rates...a lotta squids live in my neighborhood I guess.

[mehaffydr]

My question would be: If you were in a rally or doing an IBA ride and did get into an accident why the HE!! would you tell anyone AT ALL that you are in a rally or doing an endurance ride. Just seems a little common sence is needed.
Oh I would not use Geico either.

[discochris]

My question would be: If you were in a rally or doing an IBA ride and did get into an accident why the HE!! would you tell anyone AT ALL that you are in a rally or doing an endurance ride. Just seems a little common sence is needed.
Oh I would not use Geico either.

Well, they might ask "Why were you on a dirt road in rural Iowa at 2:30 in the morning when you hit that deer?"  I think I'd struggle to find a good answer to that...

[mike goodwin]

Well, they might ask "Why were you on a dirt road in rural Iowa at 2:30 in the morning when you hit that deer?"  I think I'd struggle to find a good answer to that...

What business would it be for them to know why you were traveling on a public road???
That's half the problem with this country is these stinking insurance companies have so many by the  balls.

[Stray Cat]

Well, they might ask "Why were you on a dirt road in rural Iowa at 2:30 in the morning when you hit that deer?"  I think I'd struggle to find a good answer to that...

How about:
It's a free country with no travel restrictions and I can travel where and when I feel like it without reprecussions.  
Unless your policy has a specific exclusion to that effect, tell them to go F themselves. It's as a pointless question as why you where in traffic in mid afternoon in a big city when you ran into a Chevy.

[jschmidt]

My question would be: If you were in a rally or doing an IBA ride and did get into an accident why the HE!! would you tell anyone AT ALL that you are in a rally or doing an endurance ride. Just seems a little common sence is needed.
Oh I would not use Geico either.

This is why so many wrecks happen on the entrance roads to racetracks on track days.

[Slonishku]

Huh?  

[jschmidt]

Huh?  

Wink, Wink.

[mehaffydr]

  This is why so many wrecks happen on the entrance roads to racetracks on track days.

Ya know it took me a whole day to figure that out. I thoght you were screwing with me then the lite bulb lit. That was my point exactlly.

[jschmidt]

Ya know it took me a whole day to figure that out. I thoght you were screwing with me then the lite bulb lit. That was my point exactlly.

[discochris]

How about:
It's a free country with no travel restrictions and I can travel where and when I feel like it without reprecussions.  
Unless your policy has a specific exclusion to that effect, tell them to go F themselves. It's as a pointless question as why you where in traffic in mid afternoon in a big city when you ran into a Chevy.

And then their team of high-priced lawyers figure out some way to deny your claim, because you weren't telling them the truth. This might not be such a big deal in the case of a minor property claim, but suppose you lose control of your bike, and kill someone. If your company doesn't pay your claim, do you have the $500,000+ to settle the lawsuit? Do you want to take that risk?

[Slonishku]

  This is why so many wrecks happen on the entrance roads to racetracks on track days.

OK... I got it. Only took me a minute, once I realized there was something to think about. And a great point, by the way.

I totally agree that it's nobody's business why you were where you were, but also agree that I don't want my financial house of cards resting upon a hope that "they" won't figure out that I was riding in a rally. I buy insurance for peace of mind as much as anything. And peace of mind is easier to come by when you can tell the truth...

[discochris]

A similar example would be collector car insurance. It's really cheap - about $100/year for full coverage. There's a disclaimer though that you have to sign saying you won't drive the car to work, for errands, as a backup vehicle etc.

If you lose control and run someone over on the way to work, and they ask why you were driving your classic car at 8 am on a Wednesday, you better have a good answer.