Am I insane?

[KodiakRS]

The story for so far...

I have been riding for over half a year now and have about 3500 miles on my Ninja 650R.  Most of my rides have been around town or just a quick 100-200 mile run through the local twisties.  I have done some group rides with some people from http://www.southwestrides.com/, most of their rides are based out of Phoenix, about 120 miles or so  so away from where I live.  This means that the only rides I can really go on are the ones where they head up towards where I live and I have to settle for meeting them halfway....or do I?

A week from today there is going to be a group ride to a place called salt river canyon leaving from Phoenix that I have been interested in going to for a while.  To me this sounds like a great way to figure out if I am the "sport touring" type.  

The plan so far...

I will be leaving my house dark and early at 5:00AM and heading down towards the meetup spot in Phoenix.  Contrary to popular belief, it gets cold in AZ and I will most likely have to deal with sub freezing temps during the first 90 minutes of the ride.  The first 130 miles of my ride will start with some highway action over to I-17 followed by a night time descent into Phoenix on the super slab.  Following my Descent on the 17 I will break off onto the loop 101 to skirt around the giant cesspool of humanity known as Phoenix.  Hopefully this normally crowded piece of interstate will be mostly clear of traffic on a Saturday at 6:30am.  

In Eastern Phoenix I will say goodbye to the interstate and hello to the members of the group, as well as the sun.  The next 100 miles will be the actual run up to salt river canyon.  I don't know exactly what to expect as far as roads are concerned but they look pretty scenic twisty from the map, expect to see some pics.  The canyon itself looks like a blast and will probably be one of those roads that put the "sport" in sport-touring.  As the group returns from the canyon, lunch will be had in the town of globe.  

Saying goodbye to the group in globe, I will begin the 200 mile sojourn back home, heading north for 80 miles up the Tonto basin then climbing onto the mogollon rim (5,000') into the town of Payson.  Departing Payson will take me from the forested rim down into the Verde valley along some nice sweepers crossing over the 17 as I continue to head north for the town of Cottonwood, AZ.  Somewhere between Payson and Cottonwood I will probably grab a quick bite to eat.  

The last major hurdle of the ride will be crossing Minugs mountain on a somewhat famous section of highway 89.  Highlights on this road include stunning views, the ghost town of Jerome, tricky corners, rough road surface, mid corner gravel, inattentive cagers, and elevation peaking at over 7000'.  From the other side of the mountain it's a short 30 minute jaunt along 89 back home.      

Planed route summary:
Planned route: Google Earth Link
Distance: 500ish miles
Expected: temperature: 20f-70F
Elevation range: 1,000-7,000
Estimated completion time: 14 hours, 11 of actual travel time.  


Now for the questions:

I don't have what I would call "cold weather" gear so I am improvising.  I will be wearing some heavy snowboarding gloves over my summer riding gloves, the snowboarding gloves have a material that is good at blocking wind and give a bit of extra insulation.  Later today I will be doing a little parking lot test run to ensure that the added bulk won't mess with my clutch/brake/throttle ability.  Some thermal liners under my normal riding pants and thick wool socks will take care of the legs.  My jacket has a pretty good liner but my neck is completely exposed and even with all the vents closed, my helmet lets a fair amount of air in.  I'm planning a trip to go buy a sports hood type thing or neck gaiter, hopefully I will be able to find one locally that will block that nasty wind.  Any suggestions on "cheap" winter gear are welcome.  

As far as luggage is concerned, I'm stuck with a basic tank bag and whatever I can store under my seat in addition to the basic toolkit/manual. I am planning on storing my outer gloves and neck gaiter under the seat when they are not needed, and carrying a camera, water bottle, a few energy bars and some aspirin in the tank bag, leaving room for not much else.  Any suggestions on what else to squeeze in there?

Any other advice to give to a sport touring noob on his first 500 mile journey?  I am planning on frequent stops for gas and stretching, I have a few escape routes planned on the route that will allow me to significantly cut the mileage back home, and wost case I will spend the night in a hotel, I will be riding with a group for a bit of the ride and I will be filing a "flight plan" with a friend for the part of the journey where I am going solo on the highway back from Globe.  I'll also be giving the bike a through going over the day before the ride.  

So is this entire plan insane?

[kevin_stevens]

Summary: You're putting three tanks of gas through your bike over a couple of days.

What's the problem?  

KeS

[Mookie]

Just get some winter gloves. And maybe a heated vest, they are relatively cheap and really easy to install and they make a HUGE difference in overall rider joy levels when riding in the cold.

[Orson]

To me this sounds like a great way to figure out if I am the "sport touring" type.  

hmmm...

I'm thinkin' you should already know this.

For me it's a wanderlust, and it's been a fairly powerful thing. Even before I had bought my first motorcycle, I had a good idea that I wanted to chase the horizon, to see what lies beyond the ridgeline.

It's that magnetic draw that keeps you in the saddle, mile after mile. No amount of accessories or modifications will make up for it.

but that's just me  

[sfalexi]

I would just say make sure whatever gear you get is not bulky/stiff enough to prevent you from effectively handling the bike, and layer with clothes that you can maybe unzip or vent.  You don't have storage on the bike to take off and store sweatshirt after sweatshirt, but you can unzip a jacket a bit or loosen up certain types of jackets/cold-weather gear.

500 miles?  Nice.  Depending on the terrain, it could take a little, or a long while.  Just bring that extra cash in case you're tired and don't want to ride back, food and whatever else.  And enjoy!

Alexi

[ksann]

Do it!


To quote Risky Business:
"Every once in a while, you just have to say 'What the Fu..'"



ken

[KodiakRS]

Summary: You're putting three tanks of gas through your bike over a couple of days.

What's the problem?  

KeS

It's going to be done in one day, I'll be more than doubling my previous one day mileage total, and the ride will be done with large sections in sub freezing temps at night.    

[Ves]

A bandanna, worn like Cowboys do, over the chin, and tucked into your jacket is the cheapest form of neck protection.  Second cheapest is take a knit hat, cut the top off, and vuala, you have a stretchy, soft, warm thingy to put around your neck...

Anything at 55 degrees or blow (approximately), for extended periods of time, even with thermals, you need a thin windproof outer layer.  I've never had a jacket that was completely windproof, they all seem to allow some cold air in, like at the zipper, so I keep a rain suit with me and throw it on if needed.  Makes a world of difference.

[bogfro]

Make sure you have a WINDPROOF layer over pretty much your entire body.  Make sure your neck is covered by something windproof -- you can lose tons of heat through your neck.  Then have insulating layers underneath the windproof stuff (also including your neck).

Watch for signs of hypothermia, because it can sneak up on you without realizing it (especially on a motorcycle where you're sitting there with a low heart rate).  If you get the signs, stop and do jumping jacks or something until you warm back up.  It's best to catch it early, because if you go hypothermic for too long, it really sucks your energy away for the entire day.

If you have the money, buy an electric vest before going.  They help immensely to reduce the likelihood of hypothermia, and make the ride much more enjoyable.

Have fun and ride safe!

[nater]

Heated grips will do wonders for keeping you warm.  When I ride in the cold (30-40F), it is my hands that freeze the quickest.  If you are riding at 20F for an hour than I don't think those snowboarding gloves are enough.  

[UHOH]

Welcome.   Sounds like fun plan.   thoughts:

1) plan on spending an extra $80 for dinner and small town hotel.  And actually spend it.  
Chop off the mileage.  See it as a mini-vacation trip.
 If you meet someone who offers / you're comfy spending on their couch, that's fine too.   Sometimes happens.  

2) on warmth: wear rain gear as the outer layer (Goretex is very fine, but whatever).  
It becomes a wind break layer which will make you much warmer.
Yeah, your insulated gloves will be stiff; so what.

3) On your neck; actually buy a Klim brand Balaclava WindStopper.
got one last yr for $24 local retail and so much better than
a porous (cold) typical one, for riding.   If can't find one PM me (Sunday).

... I would say it's too short notice to go the heated gear buy / install route.  You'll have fun anyway.

[Black Ice]

I did the SRC with the SWRides folks a while back.  It's well worth it, to be sure.  

I recommend layers.  Lots of thin layers under one windproof layer will keep you much warmer and let you control your comfort level a lot easier.

[VIVID1]

I'm not going to suggest heated grips or a heated vest/liner... I think those are things people get when they do a lot of riding in cold or unpredictable weather. I use them and highly recommend them.  

This is some stuff you should be able to get fairly easily.

A balaclava... a thin one so it fits under the helmet. It will not only keep your neck warm but your head.

I love my silk glove liners, I wear them under my riding gloves for extra warmth.
 
Silk is very warm and thin, silk undershrit and long silk under pants are prefect, or smart wool. Those you can get at ski shops.

I actually wear a very thin windbreaker jacket under my gear, its so thin but helps keep the wind out. Add a thin fleece shirt underneath and you're set.

Rain gear on top of riding gear will also keep you warm.

I've ridden some of those roads you posted, so I know it will be cold  Have fun!  

[county]

WTF, you can go back any time you decide you are too big of a pussy for the ride.

[stromgal]

You'll be fine. Desire is the enabler, and you have that. I rode from Milwaukee to Denver on (what would today be considered) a tiny bike many years ago, with nothing but newspapers tucked inside my leather jacket to keep me warm, because of desire.

Don't think too much, do. And enjoy!! You're not gonna die from getting cold... you can always stop somewhere and warm up.  

[evilted]

I rode from Milwaukee to Denver on (what would today be considered) a tiny bike many years ago, with nothing but newspapers tucked inside my leather jacket to keep me warm

Ok, that is hardcore.  

[Pelagic]

Okay, I will say what nobody else here seems willing to;  YES YOU ARE TOTALLY INSANE!!!

But the rest of that same thought is; If you do it you're even more insane.  Do it! Push your own envelope, it's fun, it's scary,  but ultimately VERY SATIFYING. And you WILL have the accomplishment when you finish.

I rode Coast to Coast in 50 hours because of the same series of thoughts;
1) Why does that sound like fun?
2) Can I actually do that?
3) Am I totally insane to even consider this?
You're not alone, this is a very good thing and the same urge that caused the Vikings to cross the Atlantic, Perry to the pole and America to the moon. Okay, the scale is different but the inclination is the same.

ENJOY IT!!!!


PS; The trick to staying warm is to keep the breeze off you. Get some waterproof gloves or glove covers and a polyurathane rain suit and you will be fine. No need to spend the extra for goretex this time. The PU suit will be cheap and let whatever fleece you have underneath do the trick. You're not going to have to worry about condensation this time of year.

Post back here and let us know whow it went okay?

Cheers!

[kevin_stevens]

Ok, that is hardcore.  

Psssht.  I rode from Santa Fe to Houston in a winter rain wearing a scuba wetsuit to keep warm.

KeS

[veefer800canuck]

Psssht.  I rode from Santa Fe to Houston in a winter rain wearing a scuba wetsuit to keep warm.

KeS

PICS

[hig4s]

Are you insane, YES, but don't let that stop you..

Start with a pair of these babys.

www.adventuremotogear.com/rukka-thermolite-airx-underwear-long-johns-p-149.html?osCsid=451946868fa927533638f50149722b9d


Also surgical rubber gloves under any pair of gloves will help.

[county]

 I rode from Santa Fe to Houston in a winter rain wearing a scuba wetsuit to keep warm.

KeS

Was that with or without a snorkel?

[kevin_stevens]

Was that with or without a snorkel?

I had a snorkel, but it was packed somewhere.  BTW - I don't recommend doing this.  The suit does keep the rain and cold off - but it doesn't keep you dry.  There's so little ventilation that you get drenched in sweat, and the motorcycle riding position causes the suit to cut off your circulation at the knees and elbows.  Wasn't fun.  But it got me and the suit to the same place at the same time, which was the requirement.

KeS

[jfurf]

Advice from a fellow noob (only been riding 14 months!)

Personally I've found that the absolute best way to spend $$$ on gear was on two sets of moto-specific gloves: a non-insulated pair for summer and insulated ones for winter. I bought a pair of inexpensive winter gloves at Cycle Gear and I don't even use my heated grips any more.

Also, get some decent textile overpants that zip up the side of the leg (to make 'em easier to get on and on off). It's AWESOME not having to pull over and put on rain gear.  

Newenough.com is a great place to find good, inexpensive gear.

[bomber]

bundle up as much as you can, add gear as you can afford it, and GO . .  


btw, cheap fleece gear can be rendered damn near windproof with a couple of light applications of scotchguard. . . . . this trip alone will save you plenty big dough compared to "wind stopper" fleece, enabling more long rides.

[Wanderer]

I don't think its crazy at all.  Sounds like a fun ride.  

As mentioned before, you could always get a cheap motel in PHX the night before.  The Salt River run and home is a good distance though.  Worst case scenario, if you ran short of time and it gets late and cold you have an 'out' to ditch at Camp Verde and take 169 home.  Jerome hill is stellar, but if its dark and cold it kills the fun of empty 20mph switchbacks.  There's also deer to consider.  They are plentiful around the pass at Allen Springs Rd.

I grew up in Prescott and my parents live out in Pronghorn Ranch.

[KodiakRS]

An update, Riding with snowbarding gloves over your normal gloves is hard, really really hard.  I stalled it 3 times in a 10 minute period trying to get used to them in a parking lot.  I ended up going out and getting a non motorcycle specific neck guard thing, it has a windproof section that kept me toasty warm at 60 MPH in 40 MPH conditions.  I also bought some thin thermal liners for the gloves which work VERY well.  

[dorklord]

I was actually going to suggest the thermal liners. If you have a pair of wind-proof gloves, a set of glove liners can be incredible. I wear a pair of leather gloves that have a thing liner in them, and then a pair of thermal liners, they're like silk but some modern synthetic material, and I've worn those on rides down to 25 F, although at that point I *should* switch to my 'polartech' or whatever winter snowmobiley type gloves.

A stretchy neck warmer is awesome, and last week I picked up a combo fuzzy neckwarmer/thin silk-like balaclava. Then I *thought* I packed it for deer hunting, couldn't find it when I got to my parents house, and then couldn't find it when I got home either...I hope it turns up soon!

Chris

[nater]

An update, Riding with snowbarding gloves over your normal gloves is hard, really really hard.  I stalled it 3 times in a 10 minute period trying to get used to them in a parking lot.  I ended up going out and getting a non motorcycle specific neck guard thing, it has a windproof section that kept me toasty warm at 60 MPH in 40 MPH conditions.  I also bought some thin thermal liners for the gloves which work VERY well.  

You might want to pack those snowboard gloves along with you just in case your riding gloves with the liners aren't enough.  That way you can switch gloves if you have to.

[UHOH]

An update, ...
 getting a non motorcycle specific neck guard thing, it has a windproof section that kept me toasty warm
 I also bought some thin thermal liners for the gloves which work VERY well.  

You're on a roll ...  have fun expanding your envelope

[KodiakRS]

Well, I broke down and bought a teknic two-piece suit for track days, it doesn't have much perforation so it should be good for cold weather riding if I can get a decent thermal liner.  Also got a pair of summer gloves that are of a MUCH higher quality than the $40 joe rocket ones I used to have which are falling apart.  

Looking forward to Saturday.  

[bogfro]

Well, I broke down and bought a teknic two-piece suit for track days, it doesn't have much perforation so it should be good for cold weather riding if I can get a decent thermal liner.

Leather doesn't really insulate; it only blocks wind.  You'll need to layer up a good bit underneath, if that's what you want to wear in 20 degree weather.

[Wanderer]

Leather doesn't really insulate; it only blocks wind.  You'll need to layer up a good bit underneath, if that's what you want to wear in 20 degree weather.

That it does.  Now just bite the bullet, get a warm-n-safe liner and a heat-troller and you're ready to rock all year round.

[KodiakRS]

Trip cancelled due to sickness.  Vomiting in your helmet is probably a nasty experience.  

[birdrunner]

bummer,

FWIW

By the time you buy all the liners, and thermal layers and stuff,  you could easily pay for an electric vest,   be more comfortable, warmer, and have more control over your temperature  (it sucks having to stop to peel cloths off, or add cloths.)   I paid $120.00 for mine, and it's the best money I've spent on riding in years.     Right after my Dantesdame bobble head.

[2RR2NV]

Trip cancelled due to sickness.  Vomiting in your helmet is probably a nasty experience.  

as was reading the thread, i was thinking.."lucky bugger!!!!!!", until i read that!

sorry to hear ya couldn't go. but just think, now you'll have more time to try out different combinations of layers and whatnot, to see what will work for next time.

[doug kirkpatrick]

I would like to re-affirm what the others said about a heated vest.  I did the bulk up on insulation thing for 30 yeara, and just bought a Tourmaster Synergy vest for about $125 before my last big ride (hooks up to the bike in under 10 minutes).  I really kick myself for not going this way sooner.  40 degrees now feels like a warm summer day, and I don't need any bulk (the grip heaters are nice too!)

[mugwump58]

Plastics... I mean "WarmBib". Small helps out even when not plugged in. Not bulky, not a lot of draw. Very happy with mine.

[st2sam]

I'm riding 40+years, I've got two words for you, ELEC  TRICITY !!!! But what do I know?  Except it's the best farkle riding accessory I ever purchased...

[Wanderer]

Sorry to hear you got sick.  I was really looking forward to the ride report.  Seriously though, this gives you more time to get a good deal on a heated jacket liner and grip elements.  You won't be sorry.

 I'm making time this spring to ride down from CO so me and my old man can ride alot of those roads east/Northeast of PHX.

[AutoXer]

Gonna put in a plug for my Olympia model 4350 All-Season gloves.  Instead of packing thick insulation in to try to keep the warmth in they use some sort of a "Windstopper" material to first block the wind, then some thin Thinsulate.  Since they aren't all that thick the controls are easy to work.  They are amazing.  I was out plowing my (loooong) driveway on the ATV this morning, wind chill was zero, and my fingers were frozen and in pain after just a few passes wearing the usual Winter gloves.  I finally came in and got my Olympia gloves and my hands were fine after that for an hour and a half of plowing.  

Cold Riding Rule #1 - block the wind FIRST, then insulate.

jZ

[jsanford]

I used to live in Phoenix--and I think this route is pushing it a bit.  Mingus, the Salt River Canyon, Jerome area--these are NOT 70mph roads.

I would ask on a local Arizona board about your planned route.  It may make sense to overnight somewhere and spread it over two days--if I recall, some of the hotels are family-run affairs for $20 a night.

[GoGreen]

That's too bad that you got sick and weren't able to go, there will be plenty of other opportunities, no worries! Look at this as being a positive thing, now you have a chance to be more prepared for a cold weather ride. It doesn't sound like you were. To ride in 20*F you will need heated gear, things get really cold fast at highway speeds. I have rode in 2*C weather in rather damp conditions and would have been freezing for sure had it not been for my heated gear. I have "Warm and Safe" gear, a full jacket liner and gloves also. You wear a long sleeve t-shirt under the liner, over top of the liner use a windshirt (because all that heat is useless if the cold air is getting in) and then put on your motorcycle jacket, with the liner removed. Underneath my textile motorcycle pants I wear jeans, with lightweight long underwear. Ski socks and use some of those toe warmers you get for skiing in your boots, they last for 6 hours and work great! (put them on your socks, not in your socks) You talked about starting out in the dark- throw your rainsuit on over this for visibily (I don't have to ask if your suit is a highly visible colour, do I) Plus you will be toasty warm. Snug as a bug in an electric rug. Do you have a breath guard for your helmet so your visor won't fog up?
Being cold is bad news on a bike-you are not as alert, and if your hands are cold you are not in control. With frozen fingers, how can you be? Comfort=alertness=reaching your destination. There are lots of factors that can affect the safety of your ride (road conditions, weather, crazy people in traffic, etc. Why would you add to this if you can help it?
That being said, it is a greatly satisfying feeling to be out on the roads when the majority of riders are not, yeah people do look at you like you are insane! And maybe you are... but if you are prepared you are in control, and that's what counts.
Happy trails, eh!

[erda]

I will be leaving my house dark and early at 5:00AM and heading down towards the meetup spot in Phoenix.  Contrary to popular belief, it gets cold in AZ and I will most likely have to deal with sub freezing temps during the first 90 minutes of the ride.
So is this entire plan insane?

YES it is  
In the dark on roads in subfreezing temperatures? Let's see, cold road temperatures, possibility of black ice, cold tires, limited visibility ...