Triumph to grow model range 'significantly'

[Schneegz]

From MCN: This should be good news.  Triumph seems to be on a roll.

NEC Show: Triumph to grow model range 'significantly'

By John Westlake -

General news

 26 November 2009 15:21


Triumph has promised to grow its range “significantly” in the next three years, as it celebrates becoming the best-performing bike firm in the world.

The Hinckley firm’s profits have grown 16% during the worst year for biking ever, and says it will plough that profit straight into new model development.

Triumph’s Product Manager Simon Warburton told MCN: “We’ve been very active in the last five years releasing new models.

"Apart from Ducati, everyone else has been fairly static.

"Three years ago we had 13 models, now we have 16, and despite the recession we have not cut our development program at all – I suspect other manufacturers have cut theirs.

"Our range will grow significantly over the next three years.”

First up? Triumph won’t confirm anything, but MCN believes a new Sprint, smaller-engined Tiger and lighter evolution of the top-selling 675 are all on the way.

The part I find most interesting is Triumph's increase in profits despite all the other manufacturers reporting big losses.  How did they pull that off?  If this is true, Triumph should be poised to grab a good chunk of market share, given that everyone else's market share has fallen.

[moto2wheelin]

Surely we'll see a new Trophy before too long then!

[swimmer]

Looking forward to the sprint.  Hopefully they do not go bigger in engine size.
A smaller tiger would be cool also.

[UFO]

Triumph should be poised to grab a good chunk of market share, given that everyone else's market share has fallen.

Good news for Triumph, but how can everyone's market share fall?

[2DFlyer]

Good news for Triumph, but how can everyone's market share fall?

I know of a couple of newspapers that could use your help...

In a year where the industry is off by, what 40%, it would be interesting to see where Triumph's profits came from, cost reductions or volume/price realization.  It's one thing to remain profitable in this economy, but quite another to increase profits.

From MCN: First up? Triumph won’t confirm anything, but MCN believes a new Sprint, smaller-engined Tiger and lighter evolution of the top-selling 675 are all on the way.

Wee Strom hunting with a 675 Tiger?

[CGameProgrammer]

At the start of 2008, 1 british pound was $1.96. Shortly after the end of 2008 it hit a low of $1.38. (It's currently $1.64 though.) That's a ridiculous decrease, but what it means is British exports suddenly would have become extra-profitable. For example a motorcycle selling for $10,000 initially would have brought in 5102 pounds, but shortly after the start of 2009 the same $10k motorcycle would have brought in 7247 pounds of revenue. That's a 42% increase in revenue that just happened automatically. So that certainly helps Triumph export its motorcycles.

[garry]

Looking forward to the sprint.  Hopefully they do not go bigger in engine size.

I dunno. A 1200cc triple with Ohlins/Brembos front and back would get my attention.

[Playinthestreet]

Good news for Triumph, but how can everyone's market share fall?

Agreed.  Everyone's sales numbers have fallen but any mfg could increase market share.  Sales and market share are two different animals.

[SpitfireTriple]

The part I find most interesting is Triumph's increase in profits despite all the other manufacturers reporting big losses.  How did they pull that off?

Simple.  Their previous year's profits were very small.  It was therefore relatively easy to achieve an impressive-loooking percentage increase.

If this is true, Triumph should be poised to grab a good chunk of market share, given that everyone else's market share has fallen.

 Triumph's market share may well increase, but market share is not the same thing as profit.  Not even sales, for that matter.  Oops, playinthestreet has already mentioned this.

At the start of 2008, 1 british pound was $1.96. Shortly after the end of 2008 it hit a low of $1.38. (It's currently $1.64 though.) That's a ridiculous decrease, but what it means is British exports suddenly would have become extra-profitable. For example a motorcycle selling for $10,000 initially would have brought in 5102 pounds, but shortly after the start of 2009 the same $10k motorcycle would have brought in 7247 pounds of revenue. That's a 42% increase in revenue that just happened automatically. So that certainly helps Triumph export its motorcycles.

Well, the US dollar is not the only currency Triumph sells to.  There's the euro for one thing.  But the pound is weaker against the euro too, so yes, exports have been helped by a relatively weak pound.  It's not as simple as that of course, for one thing there's the matter of increased cost on many of the things Triumph buys in from abroad.

[jstark47]

A smaller tiger would be cool also.

+1.  I want a 675 Tiger Cub.  Ya hear me, Mr. Bloor???  Huh?  Stop fiddlefarting around and make it happen!!!!!!    

 

[Schneegz]

Good news for Triumph, but how can everyone's market share fall?

I should've worded that differently.  Triumph has gained market share because their sales numbers have actually increased, while others' have fallen.  

[Schneegz]

Simple.  Their previous year's profits were very small.  It was therefore relatively easy to achieve an impressive-loooking percentage increase.

In order to increase profits, they had to increase sales (which they did).  Your "explanation" doesn't explain how they managed to increase sales in the middle of a recession that has caused most other manufacturers' sales drop by large percentages.

[Tony T]

I'd love to see a smaller Tiger to go after the wee-strom.

A new Trophy would be nice too. But IMHO the Trophy wouldn't be worth the effort unless it could compete with the FJR, fuel-injected, shaft drive, and what the hell, toss in a adjustable windshield.  

[bubba zanetti]

I would hope for a wee Tiger in twin engine package. 750 cc would be nice and built around a new, lighter engine that could power a new range of motorcycles. Make it adventure capable with a great range tank and priced to out compete the BMW 800GS.

Ah, the dreams we have.

A Tiger cub with the current 675 would be fun, but heavy.

[SpitfireTriple]

In order to increase profits, they had to increase sales (which they did).  Your "explanation" doesn't explain how they managed to increase sales in the middle of a recession that has caused most other manufacturers' sales drop by large percentages.

1..  It is not necessary for a company to increase sales in order to increase profits

2..  I did not address the (unasked) question of how Triumph managed to increase sales.  I merely addressed the question of how Triumph was able to post a relatively impressive increase in profits.

I would hope for a wee Tiger in twin engine package. 750 cc would be nice and built around a new, lighter engine that could power a new range of motorcycles. Make it adventure capable with a great range tank and priced to out compete the BMW 800GS.

...A Tiger cub with the current 675 would be fun, but heavy.

But a new, lighter engine would be expensive.  It makes much more financial sense to reuse the existing 675 engine, with a bit of cheap and easy detuning.  I believe the 675 motor is actually fairly light; it could easily be used in a Tiger Cub that would be far more manageable and real-world useable than the 1050 Tigers and GS1200s of this world.  These, fine machines as they are, are really more about posing than performance- they are just too big and too heavy to be taken off road.  Yes, they can do it, but an elephant can play hide and seek.  If nothing else, serious long-distance off-roading means falling off from time to time.  Watch any episode of Charlie and Ewen for the difficulty of picking up a big GS for the tenth time in 40 deg C heat.


Me, I'd like to see a 675 Tiger Cub.  And maybe even a small light Sports Tourer 675.  And an all-new (okay, that'll be expensive then) Daytona 1100 triple.

[Croak]

A Tiger cub with the current 675 would be fun, but heavy.

Not really Bubba.  It'd weigh in higher than a Stipple or D675 just because the application would require a beefier frame and suspenders.  But even if they plopped the 675 in the current Tiger 1050 chassis, it'd still come in at least 40 pounds lighter.   By modern standards, the 1050 mill is still pretty heavy, while the 675 is much more cutting edge in terms of weight.

I also think it's against Triumph's design philosophy to put a p-twin in a more sporting/non-retro application.  They already make a rough surface p-twin, in the form of the Scrambler.  They also won't be designing high performance p-twins (ala the 800's Rotax).  Remember how Triumph operates...they come up with an engine, then put it on as many platforms as they can.  The current 800cc p-twin does exactly what they want it to do, power strong selling retro bikes, where "character" isn't an intangible, it's a reality and a necessity.  That sewing machine Rotax 800 trades said character for power.

They simply don't have the R&D or manufacturing capacity to deal with a myriad of powerplants like the larger makers can, nor are the dealerships interested in having to deal with a wider range of motors and less parts commonality.

The Rocket 3 and new T-Bird are the exceptions to their commonality rule, but both were different shots at the same target...I expect the Rocket will be dropped in the near future since the T-Bird actually seems to have hit the mark.

But they'd be plumb batnuts stupid to try to compete in the "real" ADV market against BMW/KTM, quite likely a waste of R&D with no real payoff.  It's just not something that's tied to Triumph's brand recognition, and why they (sensibly) went Street/Standard with the current Tiger (which is doing decently well, sales wise).  Expect more of the same with less motor and a lower price in the Tiger Cub, if they release it.

The lessons they learned from the old Tiger, the Daytona 955 and the Trophy line have taught them that a narrower focus on the market, and not bringing knives to gunfights is the way to go.  

[maddjack]

 Either a Sub 900cc Tiger or a Shaft Trophy that isn't a overweight gas hog would grab my attention real fast.I love my triple which is why its still around my garage after 6 years

[Schneegz]

Here are my predictions.  

I think they'll use the 675cc triple as the basis for a larger engine; between 750cc and 800cc.  They'll build a smaller Tiger around that engine, and maybe even a smaller Sprint (this is wishful thinking on my part).  The Street Triple will move up to this size engine.

The 1050cc triple is getting old (by industry standards).  They'll replace it with a new 1100cc - 1200cc triple that will power a new Speed Triple, Tiger, Sprint and Trophy.  I don't think they'll jump into the Superbike ring yet.

The Thunderbird line will expand.  Maybe they'll add a cafe racer (again, wishful thinking on my part).

These predictions are worth exactly what you paid for them (if not less)!  

[SpitfireTriple]

Croak:  Agree with most of what you say except:

The Rocket 3 and new T-Bird are the exceptions to their commonality rule, but both were different shots at the same target...I expect the Rocket will be dropped in the near future since the T-Bird actually seems to have hit the mark.

I myself would expect the Rocket to stay in production for some time to come.  It owns a unique position in the market: Biggest Baddest Bike.  There are some people who will always be happy to pay £10,000/$15,000 for that.  With the "World's Biggest Bike" bracket, unlike the 600/1000 sports bike, you don't have to keeping running just to stay still. You design it once, tool up for it once, then keep building it.  That's the profitable business model which Harley have grown fat from.  Of course, if someone else brings out a 2.5 liter bike....

But they'd be plumb batnuts stupid to try to compete in the "real" ADV market against BMW/KTM, quite likely a waste of R&D with no real payoff.  It's just not something that's tied to Triumph's brand recognition, and why they (sensibly) went Street/Standard with the current Tiger (which is doing decently well, sales wise).  Expect more of the same with less motor and a lower price in the Tiger Cub, if they release it.

The lessons they learned from the old Tiger, the Daytona 955 and the Trophy line have taught them that a narrower focus on the market, and not bringing knives to gunfights is the way to go.  

"Stupid to compete"?  Well, many would have said that about Triumph taking another shot at the supersport market after the failure of their 600/650-four.  I might well have been one of them!  But the 675 is widely regarded as a hell of a bike and has sold well (and still sells well).  The "Big ADVbike" market is a profitable one; people are prepared to pay a lot of money for their I'm-just-like-Charlie-and-Ewen machines.  But Triumph has missed the boat on that one; the big RTW bike slot is owned by BMW now, with only the cognoscenti buying KTM.

Here are my predictions.  

I think they'll use the 675cc triple as the basis for a larger engine; between 750cc and 800cc

I don't.  I think the 675 was designed from the outset to be super-compact.  I therefore doubt there's any way Triumph could realistically stretch the bore or stroke.

These predictions/comments are worth exactly as much as you paid for them!    
Isn't that the case with everything posted on forums?!

[Schneegz]

I don't.  I think the 675 was designed from the outset to be super-compact.  I therefore doubt there's any way Triumph could realistically stretch the bore or stroke.

These predictions/comments are worth exactly as much as you paid for them!    
Isn't that the case with everything posted on forums?!

That may be true.  Obviously, I don't know.  But if anything can be increased, it's probably the stroke.

As for predictions/comments on forums; yes, that's generally about their worth!