Triumph to grow model range 'significantly'

[Schneegz]

From MCN: This should be good news.  Triumph seems to be on a roll.

NEC Show: Triumph to grow model range 'significantly'

By John Westlake -

General news

 26 November 2009 15:21


Triumph has promised to grow its range “significantly” in the next three years, as it celebrates becoming the best-performing bike firm in the world.

The Hinckley firm’s profits have grown 16% during the worst year for biking ever, and says it will plough that profit straight into new model development.

Triumph’s Product Manager Simon Warburton told MCN: “We’ve been very active in the last five years releasing new models.

"Apart from Ducati, everyone else has been fairly static.

"Three years ago we had 13 models, now we have 16, and despite the recession we have not cut our development program at all – I suspect other manufacturers have cut theirs.

"Our range will grow significantly over the next three years.”

First up? Triumph won’t confirm anything, but MCN believes a new Sprint, smaller-engined Tiger and lighter evolution of the top-selling 675 are all on the way.

The part I find most interesting is Triumph's increase in profits despite all the other manufacturers reporting big losses.  How did they pull that off?  If this is true, Triumph should be poised to grab a good chunk of market share, given that everyone else's market share has fallen.

[moto2wheelin]

Surely we'll see a new Trophy before too long then!

[swimmer]

Looking forward to the sprint.  Hopefully they do not go bigger in engine size.
A smaller tiger would be cool also.

[UFO]

Triumph should be poised to grab a good chunk of market share, given that everyone else's market share has fallen.

Good news for Triumph, but how can everyone's market share fall?

[2DFlyer]

Good news for Triumph, but how can everyone's market share fall?

I know of a couple of newspapers that could use your help...

In a year where the industry is off by, what 40%, it would be interesting to see where Triumph's profits came from, cost reductions or volume/price realization.  It's one thing to remain profitable in this economy, but quite another to increase profits.

From MCN: First up? Triumph won’t confirm anything, but MCN believes a new Sprint, smaller-engined Tiger and lighter evolution of the top-selling 675 are all on the way.

Wee Strom hunting with a 675 Tiger?

[CGameProgrammer]

At the start of 2008, 1 british pound was $1.96. Shortly after the end of 2008 it hit a low of $1.38. (It's currently $1.64 though.) That's a ridiculous decrease, but what it means is British exports suddenly would have become extra-profitable. For example a motorcycle selling for $10,000 initially would have brought in 5102 pounds, but shortly after the start of 2009 the same $10k motorcycle would have brought in 7247 pounds of revenue. That's a 42% increase in revenue that just happened automatically. So that certainly helps Triumph export its motorcycles.

[garry]

Looking forward to the sprint.  Hopefully they do not go bigger in engine size.

I dunno. A 1200cc triple with Ohlins/Brembos front and back would get my attention.

[Playinthestreet]

Good news for Triumph, but how can everyone's market share fall?

Agreed.  Everyone's sales numbers have fallen but any mfg could increase market share.  Sales and market share are two different animals.

[SpitfireTriple]

The part I find most interesting is Triumph's increase in profits despite all the other manufacturers reporting big losses.  How did they pull that off?

Simple.  Their previous year's profits were very small.  It was therefore relatively easy to achieve an impressive-loooking percentage increase.

If this is true, Triumph should be poised to grab a good chunk of market share, given that everyone else's market share has fallen.

 Triumph's market share may well increase, but market share is not the same thing as profit.  Not even sales, for that matter.  Oops, playinthestreet has already mentioned this.

At the start of 2008, 1 british pound was $1.96. Shortly after the end of 2008 it hit a low of $1.38. (It's currently $1.64 though.) That's a ridiculous decrease, but what it means is British exports suddenly would have become extra-profitable. For example a motorcycle selling for $10,000 initially would have brought in 5102 pounds, but shortly after the start of 2009 the same $10k motorcycle would have brought in 7247 pounds of revenue. That's a 42% increase in revenue that just happened automatically. So that certainly helps Triumph export its motorcycles.

Well, the US dollar is not the only currency Triumph sells to.  There's the euro for one thing.  But the pound is weaker against the euro too, so yes, exports have been helped by a relatively weak pound.  It's not as simple as that of course, for one thing there's the matter of increased cost on many of the things Triumph buys in from abroad.

[jstark47]

A smaller tiger would be cool also.

+1.  I want a 675 Tiger Cub.  Ya hear me, Mr. Bloor???  Huh?  Stop fiddlefarting around and make it happen!!!!!!    

 

[Schneegz]

Good news for Triumph, but how can everyone's market share fall?

I should've worded that differently.  Triumph has gained market share because their sales numbers have actually increased, while others' have fallen.  

[Schneegz]

Simple.  Their previous year's profits were very small.  It was therefore relatively easy to achieve an impressive-loooking percentage increase.

In order to increase profits, they had to increase sales (which they did).  Your "explanation" doesn't explain how they managed to increase sales in the middle of a recession that has caused most other manufacturers' sales drop by large percentages.

[Tony T]

I'd love to see a smaller Tiger to go after the wee-strom.

A new Trophy would be nice too. But IMHO the Trophy wouldn't be worth the effort unless it could compete with the FJR, fuel-injected, shaft drive, and what the hell, toss in a adjustable windshield.  

[bubba zanetti]

I would hope for a wee Tiger in twin engine package. 750 cc would be nice and built around a new, lighter engine that could power a new range of motorcycles. Make it adventure capable with a great range tank and priced to out compete the BMW 800GS.

Ah, the dreams we have.

A Tiger cub with the current 675 would be fun, but heavy.

[SpitfireTriple]

In order to increase profits, they had to increase sales (which they did).  Your "explanation" doesn't explain how they managed to increase sales in the middle of a recession that has caused most other manufacturers' sales drop by large percentages.

1..  It is not necessary for a company to increase sales in order to increase profits

2..  I did not address the (unasked) question of how Triumph managed to increase sales.  I merely addressed the question of how Triumph was able to post a relatively impressive increase in profits.

I would hope for a wee Tiger in twin engine package. 750 cc would be nice and built around a new, lighter engine that could power a new range of motorcycles. Make it adventure capable with a great range tank and priced to out compete the BMW 800GS.

...A Tiger cub with the current 675 would be fun, but heavy.

But a new, lighter engine would be expensive.  It makes much more financial sense to reuse the existing 675 engine, with a bit of cheap and easy detuning.  I believe the 675 motor is actually fairly light; it could easily be used in a Tiger Cub that would be far more manageable and real-world useable than the 1050 Tigers and GS1200s of this world.  These, fine machines as they are, are really more about posing than performance- they are just too big and too heavy to be taken off road.  Yes, they can do it, but an elephant can play hide and seek.  If nothing else, serious long-distance off-roading means falling off from time to time.  Watch any episode of Charlie and Ewen for the difficulty of picking up a big GS for the tenth time in 40 deg C heat.


Me, I'd like to see a 675 Tiger Cub.  And maybe even a small light Sports Tourer 675.  And an all-new (okay, that'll be expensive then) Daytona 1100 triple.

[Croak]

A Tiger cub with the current 675 would be fun, but heavy.

Not really Bubba.  It'd weigh in higher than a Stipple or D675 just because the application would require a beefier frame and suspenders.  But even if they plopped the 675 in the current Tiger 1050 chassis, it'd still come in at least 40 pounds lighter.   By modern standards, the 1050 mill is still pretty heavy, while the 675 is much more cutting edge in terms of weight.

I also think it's against Triumph's design philosophy to put a p-twin in a more sporting/non-retro application.  They already make a rough surface p-twin, in the form of the Scrambler.  They also won't be designing high performance p-twins (ala the 800's Rotax).  Remember how Triumph operates...they come up with an engine, then put it on as many platforms as they can.  The current 800cc p-twin does exactly what they want it to do, power strong selling retro bikes, where "character" isn't an intangible, it's a reality and a necessity.  That sewing machine Rotax 800 trades said character for power.

They simply don't have the R&D or manufacturing capacity to deal with a myriad of powerplants like the larger makers can, nor are the dealerships interested in having to deal with a wider range of motors and less parts commonality.

The Rocket 3 and new T-Bird are the exceptions to their commonality rule, but both were different shots at the same target...I expect the Rocket will be dropped in the near future since the T-Bird actually seems to have hit the mark.

But they'd be plumb batnuts stupid to try to compete in the "real" ADV market against BMW/KTM, quite likely a waste of R&D with no real payoff.  It's just not something that's tied to Triumph's brand recognition, and why they (sensibly) went Street/Standard with the current Tiger (which is doing decently well, sales wise).  Expect more of the same with less motor and a lower price in the Tiger Cub, if they release it.

The lessons they learned from the old Tiger, the Daytona 955 and the Trophy line have taught them that a narrower focus on the market, and not bringing knives to gunfights is the way to go.  

[maddjack]

 Either a Sub 900cc Tiger or a Shaft Trophy that isn't a overweight gas hog would grab my attention real fast.I love my triple which is why its still around my garage after 6 years

[Schneegz]

Here are my predictions.  

I think they'll use the 675cc triple as the basis for a larger engine; between 750cc and 800cc.  They'll build a smaller Tiger around that engine, and maybe even a smaller Sprint (this is wishful thinking on my part).  The Street Triple will move up to this size engine.

The 1050cc triple is getting old (by industry standards).  They'll replace it with a new 1100cc - 1200cc triple that will power a new Speed Triple, Tiger, Sprint and Trophy.  I don't think they'll jump into the Superbike ring yet.

The Thunderbird line will expand.  Maybe they'll add a cafe racer (again, wishful thinking on my part).

These predictions are worth exactly what you paid for them (if not less)!  

[SpitfireTriple]

Croak:  Agree with most of what you say except:

The Rocket 3 and new T-Bird are the exceptions to their commonality rule, but both were different shots at the same target...I expect the Rocket will be dropped in the near future since the T-Bird actually seems to have hit the mark.

I myself would expect the Rocket to stay in production for some time to come.  It owns a unique position in the market: Biggest Baddest Bike.  There are some people who will always be happy to pay £10,000/$15,000 for that.  With the "World's Biggest Bike" bracket, unlike the 600/1000 sports bike, you don't have to keeping running just to stay still. You design it once, tool up for it once, then keep building it.  That's the profitable business model which Harley have grown fat from.  Of course, if someone else brings out a 2.5 liter bike....

But they'd be plumb batnuts stupid to try to compete in the "real" ADV market against BMW/KTM, quite likely a waste of R&D with no real payoff.  It's just not something that's tied to Triumph's brand recognition, and why they (sensibly) went Street/Standard with the current Tiger (which is doing decently well, sales wise).  Expect more of the same with less motor and a lower price in the Tiger Cub, if they release it.

The lessons they learned from the old Tiger, the Daytona 955 and the Trophy line have taught them that a narrower focus on the market, and not bringing knives to gunfights is the way to go.  

"Stupid to compete"?  Well, many would have said that about Triumph taking another shot at the supersport market after the failure of their 600/650-four.  I might well have been one of them!  But the 675 is widely regarded as a hell of a bike and has sold well (and still sells well).  The "Big ADVbike" market is a profitable one; people are prepared to pay a lot of money for their I'm-just-like-Charlie-and-Ewen machines.  But Triumph has missed the boat on that one; the big RTW bike slot is owned by BMW now, with only the cognoscenti buying KTM.

Here are my predictions.  

I think they'll use the 675cc triple as the basis for a larger engine; between 750cc and 800cc

I don't.  I think the 675 was designed from the outset to be super-compact.  I therefore doubt there's any way Triumph could realistically stretch the bore or stroke.

These predictions/comments are worth exactly as much as you paid for them!    
Isn't that the case with everything posted on forums?!

[Schneegz]

I don't.  I think the 675 was designed from the outset to be super-compact.  I therefore doubt there's any way Triumph could realistically stretch the bore or stroke.

These predictions/comments are worth exactly as much as you paid for them!    
Isn't that the case with everything posted on forums?!

That may be true.  Obviously, I don't know.  But if anything can be increased, it's probably the stroke.

As for predictions/comments on forums; yes, that's generally about their worth!  

[Croak]

There's been a rumour floating around about a 750 triple for the Cub for some time.  And it's a reasonably believable one.  Stroke the 675 a bit, recam it for midrange, reduce the rev limit to 12k, and you've got a decent workhorse lump with a long service life.  Something like 100hp and with 60-ft/lbs of torque that peaks BELOW 10k RPM.  Sounds just like what they did with the old Daytona-derived 955 lumps, doesn't it?

It's also fairly cheap to produce.  Same block, same electronics/FI system, but with less expensive internals since it doesn't have to rev to 14k.  Use the same tube frame shared by the D75/Street Triple, add a beefier subframe for pillion/luggage support, keep the DSSA, design optional pannier mounts, reuse as much of the Tiger 1050 or Street Triple bits (forks, bars, controls, fairing, brakes, wheels, seat, clocks, etc) as the stylist can get away with, price it about $2000 less than the base 1050, and they're done.

Using a stroked 675, they can also cite the D675's reputation in this new motor (just like they touted the 955 Sprint and Speed Triples having D955 lineage).

[Schneegz]

There's been a rumour floating around about a 750 triple for the Cub for some time.  And it's a reasonably believable one.  Stroke the 675 a bit, recam it for midrange, reduce the rev limit to 12k, and you've got a decent workhorse lump with a long service life.  Something like 100hp and with 60-ft/lbs of torque that peaks BELOW 10k RPM.  Sounds just like what they did with the old Daytona-derived 955 lumps, doesn't it?

That would be sweet.  

[Rincewind]

I could get into a smaller Tiger if it were signifantly less weight with an equal or higher power/weight ratio.  I wouldn't expect much better fuel efficiency, though maybe slightly.  The smaller 675 is a thrill but it could easily feel underpowered if you laid it up with full gear and 2-up.  The 1050 is spot on for the Tiger's adv-sport class.  I would rather see a 675-750cc supermoto-like standard then a mini-Tiger - a Triumph answer to the Hypermotard, but with real world amenities.

[maddjack]

But not everyone worries about two up,in truth how many people who do, actually ride two up more than 20% to 50% of the time. There is a market for a smaller displacement machine,I don't want 1050,1100 or 1200cc,those are low intrest to me and a bunch of other solo flyers. Underpowered with full gear,come on, my 650 Versys isn't underpowered with a pile -o-stuff on it.Hell I toured on a Kawa 440LTD at one time in the 80's.The displacement mentality is rampant due to the magazines,not a real need.

[Schneegz]

But not everyone worries about two up,in truth how many people who do, actually ride two up more than 20% to 50% of the time. There is a market for a smaller displacement machine,I don't want 1050,1100 or 1200cc,those are low intrest to me and a bunch of other solo flyers. Underpowered with full gear,come on, my 650 Versys isn't underpowered with a pile -o-stuff on it.Hell I toured on a Kawa 440LTD at one time in the 80's.The displacement mentality is rampant due to the magazines,not a real need.

I see your point, but I think a modern 800cc is plenty, even 2-up.  That's a matter of taste, of course.  Some people want the instant, space shuttle thrust of a ZX-14.  

[bluepoof]

I want that smaller Tiger with a smaller frame and shorter seat height to go along with it.  Hey, I can dream!

[Schneegz]

I want that smaller Tiger with a smaller frame and shorter seat height to go along with it.  Hey, I can dream!

As long as the seat height is adjustable, or optional.  Some of us non-vertically-challenged folks would like a smaller displacement, lighter Tiger too!

[bluepoof]

As long as the seat height is adjustable, or optional.  Some of us non-vertically-challenged folks would like a smaller displacement, lighter Tiger too!

Whew, cuz you guys only have 1283781237921738912 dualsports to choose from already!

[SpitfireTriple]

The smaller 675 is a thrill but it could easily feel underpowered if you laid it up with full gear and 2-up.

I echo points made by Maddjack and Schneegz.  And if you are two-up touring on tarmac or hard dirt roads, a big ADV bike is just the job.  But you can't do serious off-roading two-up.  And if you're not two-up, why take the bulk and weight of a two-up bike?  For solo on/off-roading, a Tiger 675 (or 750, I will concede that you might be able to stroke it) would be just the tool.  And rather than being yet another big single, it would be unique.  Triumph should build it.  I believe they will.

As long as the seat height is adjustable, or optional.  Some of us non-vertically-challenged folks would like a smaller displacement, lighter Tiger too!

A low seat height is always going to be at odds with long-travel off-road suspension.  But it's a fair request.  And one which the manufacturers generally want to comply with - they don't like losing sales.   But maybe there's another side of the coin.  I love the 3-cylinder engine of the Triumph Sprint ST.   But I ride an Aprilia Futura, despite it having a horrid engine sound.  Why?  One very basic reason.  Triumph gave the Sprint a narrow seat so shorties could get their feet down.  Aprilia ignored the shorties, which allowed the Futura to have a wide, unbelieveably comfy seat.  Sounds trite, but it was the deciding factor for me.

[Schneegz]

Whew, cuz you guys only have 1283781237921738912 dualsports to choose from already!

Hey, I said I'd compromise!  

[bluepoof]

Hey, I said I'd compromise!  

[stromgal]

Yep, I'm hoping for a 'Tiger Cub' version 2010 or '11 as well. For those of us who ride solo, er, sans-pillion, it would be awesome. I rode the Street Triple R and loved it, but would like a small fairing and more upright positioning.

[goodhawk]

Yea , a smaller Tiger is  a good way fer Tri to go.
675 based , a little stroke / detune would be fine , not to add power , but lower rpm range. and  increase gas mileage.
maybe a 675 frame , IF ya can style a 5.5 gal tank , I don't see why not , what , 1 1/2 in. higher ?  more space for bigger battery , stronger / bigger rear subframe, modestly longer suspension than the sports 675's , but NOT a  'dirtbike' with say 34 " seat ht. -- BMW gets it's  650 single down doesn't it ?

[bubba zanetti]

 

Not really Bubba.  It'd weigh in higher than a Stipple or D675 just because the application would require a beefier frame and suspenders.  But even if they plopped the 675 in the current Tiger 1050 chassis, it'd still come in at least 40 pounds lighter.   By modern standards, the 1050 mill is still pretty heavy, while the 675 is much more cutting edge in terms of weight.

I also think it's against Triumph's design philosophy to put a p-twin in a more sporting/non-retro application.  They already make a rough surface p-twin, in the form of the Scrambler.  They also won't be designing high performance p-twins (ala the 800's Rotax).  Remember how Triumph operates...they come up with an engine, then put it on as many platforms as they can.  The current 800cc p-twin does exactly what they want it to do, power strong selling retro bikes, where "character" isn't an intangible, it's a reality and a necessity.  That sewing machine Rotax 800 trades said character for power.

They simply don't have the R&D or manufacturing capacity to deal with a myriad of powerplants like the larger makers can, nor are the dealerships interested in having to deal with a wider range of motors and less parts commonality.

The Rocket 3 and new T-Bird are the exceptions to their commonality rule, but both were different shots at the same target...I expect the Rocket will be dropped in the near future since the T-Bird actually seems to have hit the mark.

But they'd be plumb batnuts stupid to try to compete in the "real" ADV market against BMW/KTM, quite likely a waste of R&D with no real payoff.  It's just not something that's tied to Triumph's brand recognition, and why they (sensibly) went Street/Standard with the current Tiger (which is doing decently well, sales wise).  Expect more of the same with less motor and a lower price in the Tiger Cub, if they release it.

The lessons they learned from the old Tiger, the Daytona 955 and the Trophy line have taught them that a narrower focus on the market, and not bringing knives to gunfights is the way to go.  

Good points for sure, logical and realistic ... but I still want to dream of a dualsport twin from Triumph. It will likely never happen but ...

Really looking forward to what Triumph have up their sleeve. Besides the T595 boards need some fodder for speculation.  

[Attack Pug]

The List

1. Trophy ( accessories like the BMW's)
2. Daytona 1200 ( traction control, abs uh like a BMW )
3. Tiger 675
4. ?

[Schneegz]

The List

1. Trophy ( accessories like the BMW's)
2. Daytona 1200 ( traction control, abs uh like a BMW )
3. Tiger 675
4. ?

4. Updated Speed Triple on a whole new triple engine (1100cc? 1200cc?)
5. Updated Sprint on same engine as above, fully adjustable suspension, radial Brembos
6. Updated Tiger on same engine as above
7. Street Triple moves up to the 750cc or 800cc engine for the smaller Tiger
8. Thunderbird 1600cc Cafe Racer  

[falconati]

They're going to update the Speedy and Sprint for sure.  I hope they make a 675 Tiger - I'd buy one of those (or maybe a Street Triple R) for my boyfriend in a few years

[Rincewind]

4. Updated Speed Triple on a whole new triple engine (1100cc? 1200cc?)
5. Updated Sprint on same engine as above, fully adjustable suspension, radial Brembos
6. Updated Tiger on same engine as above
7. Street Triple moves up to the 750cc or 800cc engine for the smaller Tiger
8. Thunderbird 1600cc Cafe Racer  

9. Return of the Trident triple - standard bike with realistic passenger accomodations



10. Triumph Supermotard

11. Triumph Enduro Tiger

[sammyseaman]

4. Updated Speed Triple on a whole new triple engine (1100cc? 1200cc?)
5. Updated Sprint on same engine as above, fully adjustable suspension, radial Brembos
6. Updated Tiger on same engine as above
7. Street Triple moves up to the 750cc or 800cc engine for the smaller Tiger
8. Thunderbird 1600cc Cafe Racer  

Now that would be cool  

[Tar Snake]

  I hope they make a 675 Tiger - I'd buy one of those (or maybe a Street Triple R) for my boyfriend in a few years

I'll probably still be available in a few years, buy me one!  

[Schneegz]

9. Return of the Trident triple - standard bike with realistic passenger accomodations

10. Triumph Supermotard

11. Triumph Enduro Tiger

12.  750cc - 800cc Sprint.

[1000lbs]

Another 675 tiger dreamer here...  

I love my Speedy, and I've really been enjoying my DR lately even for pavement duty...  More upright ergos, better luggage options, and maybe a better pillon situation would be the perfect blend I'm thinking of lately... They better do it soon though, I've got that damn Ducati MTS1200 on the brain...


 

[falconati]

I'll probably still be available in a few years, buy me one!  

 

[Galo]

Here are my predictions.  

I think they'll use the 675cc triple as the basis for a larger engine; between 750cc and 800cc.  They'll build a smaller Tiger around that engine, and maybe even a smaller Sprint (this is wishful thinking on my part).  The Street Triple will move up to this size engine.

Okay. New bike fo' sho'.
Keep it under 420 lbs while u are at it....

[swimmer]

Okay. New bike fo' sho'.
Keep it under 420 lbs while u are at it....

Oh agreed.  A smaller Sprint would be so dirty.  

[Playinthestreet]

Shaft drive Trophy in at 100lbs less than a Gold Wing.

[BCinMD]

C'mon Triumph....a Tiger Cub (675, 800, whatever...) is just what I'm waiting for!!

[Yankee Dog]

The 675 would make a great DS.  It is already just barely heavier than the new KLR and lighter than the F650GS with gobs more power than either.

I would look forward to it.

And a new Trophy as well.

Yankee Dog

[Attack Pug]

Shaft drive Trophy in at 100 300 lbs less than a Gold Wing.

A gold wing at 900 lbs need more than 100lbs

[falconati]

The 675 would make a great DS.  It is already just barely heavier than the new KLR and lighter than the F650GS with gobs more power than either.

I would look forward to it.
Yankee Dog

Ooo...that's interesting.  Maybe a 675 Tiger with knobby tires?  Baby GS-Adventure?  

[Schneegz]

Okay. New bike fo' sho'.
Keep it under 420 lbs while u are at it....

420lb?  Is that dry or wet?  Because wet sounds impossible at an affordable price point.

[David Morrow]

"Three years ago we had 13 models, now we have 16, "

I think that's one of the things that got GM into so much trouble - too may models.

I've been interested in the Sprint ST for quite a while now. Maybe a lighter replacement / stable mate for my FJR. I hope they keep any future models in the 1000cc range instead of trying to complete in the 1200-1300cc arena.

[Croak]

I think that's one of the things that got GM into so much trouble - too may models.

With the way they actually differentiate between models, I don't think it is anything like GM.  First, there's just one marque, not six or seven.  But most important, the various T100 Bonneville derivations differ in fundamentally small details, like wheels, bars, seats, etc, rather than being totally different platforms, and the T100 line accounts for the bulk of Triumph's different "models".  

If you count the T100 line as one model with a lot of options, (and you can do the same for the Daytona 675/Street Triple), then Triumph actually only has eight models at present:  The T100s, Sprint, Speed Triple, Tiger, Thunderbird, Rocket, and the D675/Street.

I've been interested in the Sprint ST for quite a while now. Maybe a lighter replacement / stable mate for my FJR. I hope they keep any future models in the 1000cc range instead of trying to complete in the 1200-1300cc arena.

So say we all regarding keeping the Sprint a middle-weight.  If Triumph porks up the Sprint to a shaft-driven fat-assed FJR wannabe, I won't be in the market for a new one.   If they want to make a new Trophy that has all the "must have" lard (shaft, 150+ hp, heated footpegs, retractable awning), that's fine.  But there's still room and market share to be had by keeping a sub-600 pound (wet) chain-driven and relatively nimble and simple Sport Tourer around, especially since the new VFR has joined the zaftig-tourer ranks.  

Triumph is due a clean-sheet motor design for the liter-class triple.  The 1050 is a really old design and stroked as far as it can be (with no room for more bore).  It's the same basic motor was used in the '97 Daytona 955cc (which was based off the 885 that rolled off the line in the early 90's).  There's a good bit of weight to be shaved and more power to be had using modern design and materials, without increasing displacement by much (if any).  

The question is, will the 'gentlemen tourers' of the world be satisfied with a ~1000cc bike, when all the cool kids have 1200 or more?  I suspect that Triumph will err on the side of displacement with the new engine if for no other reason than more displacement for a given horsepower target makes for a cheaper to design and less stressed powerplant, and they have a long tradition of creeping displacement.

[David Morrow]

Thanks Croak. And I'd be happy to have a chain drive. I hope they don't feel the need to compete on that front too. My GF is with me on almost all of my long rides (she's on a 2004 VFR) and has no issues with the chain. She's been with me as far east as Labrador ( we're from the Pacific NW) and as far south as the far corner of New Mexico and daily oiling is easy and routine.

[ANZAC]

I am close to getting either a Street or Speed Triple but a new Trophy would be nice and that seems to be what a lot of people are waiting for.

[ScottB]

I'd seriously consider replacing the Tiger with a new Trophy, when the time comes.

[sammyseaman]

If they come out with a new Trophy it may help keep the Sprint in the "more nimble" ST range. I personally have no interest in the heavy touring rigs that a lot of STer's clammer to.

[SpitfireTriple]

Lifted from http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/triumph-notches-up-record-uk-sales-in-2009/9177.html


Home sales up 26 per cent for Britain's biggest bike manufacturer
Posted: 12 January 2010
by Visordown News
street triple


BRITISH motorcycle manufacturer Triumph delivered record UK sales in 2009, despite a 10% drop in the UK’s large capacity motorcycle market.

The iconic brand increased sales in its home market by 26 per cent in 2009, selling 7,450 new motorcycles,  to become the fourth largest big bike brand in the UK.

Triumph finished the year outselling all manufacturers in the month of November, trailing Honda by just 1 unit in December in the UK +500cc sector.

In the space of 12 months Triumph’s market share of the UK 500cc+ market has increased from 9.2 per cent to 13 per cent.

Paul Stroud, Director of Global Sales and Marketing at Triumph said, “I’m delighted with our sales growth here in the UK market.  Our strategy of developing class leading motorcycles and working closely with our dealer partners to deliver a great customer experience is really working and helping to deliver a strong performance globally.  In the last 12 months Triumph has increased its global market share from 3.4 per cent to 4.4 per cent.”

[SpitfireTriple]

According to gossip on one of the Triumph forums, particularly from one [person who lives close to the factory and seems well-connected, Triumph have now stopped production of the 1050 Speed Triple and the 1050 Sprint ST.  Unfortunately the source does not comment on whether this is an absolute, permanent, never-again stoppage, or just a temporary, let's make a different model for a while, stoppage.

[Croak]

Something tells me Hinkley history is about to repeat itself.   

Stop production on the Sprint and Speed, tool up for the new versions, re-start production in Q3/Q4 for a Q1/2 2011 wide release.  In the meantime, the Tiger remains unchanged for at least one more year (most likely two), with possibly a final-year (2012) engine upgrade if they run out of 1050 bits.

Time will tell, but I bet we start hearing official new model noises in the late summer...sooner if existing inventory stocks fall low enough, later if there's a lot of old stock on dealership floors, because it'll hurt sales of existing inventory.  Massive market share loss once the riding season gets in full swing will also prompt an early announcement, in the hopes it'll counterpunch competitor sales as people wait for the new Triumphs.

Sure,  it could just be that they've decided to stop making the Sprint altogether, and that the Street Triple is the only streetfighter they need to carry.  But that's a pretty bleak scenario, and doesn't jibe with the stated intent of introducing new models and increasing market share.

To me, the biggest concern is what they do with the Sprint, because that's where they keep or lose me as a potential new bike customer.   Fuck shaft drives, to sum it up.

[NoDak]

There will be a new Sprint displacing 1200 CC's.  New Trophy with shaft drive, heated seat, GPS...  Same class as a BMW 1300 GT.

[swimmer]

There will be a new Sprint displacing 1200 CC's.

Nooooo.  We want smaller not bigger!

[Schneegz]

Here are my predictions again.

1) 800cc Tiger; 2 versions - pure road and dual sport (this is my dream bike)
2) 800cc Sprint
3) 800cc Street Triple (eventually)
4) 1200cc Speed Triple
5) 1200cc Sprint (chain drive)
6) 1200cc Trophy (shaft drive)
7) 1200cc Tiger (eventually)
8) 1100cc Daytona will compete in WSB (way down the road)
9) Daytona 675 gets major upgrades, including a whole new engine, next year

[SpitfireTriple]

Well, I'm going to disagree with most of the above.  Hey, disagreeing is what forums are for.  Several reasons:

1.  800cc bikes. Maybe, but to the majority of the purchasing public these are neither one thing nor the other. Not as nimble and unthreatening as a 600, not as fast and threatening as a 1000+.  Consider the market for 750-fours; only one manufacturer, Suzuki, thinks it worthwhile.  The other manufacturers aren't stupid. They refrain from entering the market because they know it is (barely) big enough for one supplier.
Note: If Triumph did want to go into 800s, there is actually a way they could do so quickly, cheaply, and effectively:  Buy and build MV Agusta's prototype 800 triple.  Apparently the sports version laps at only a second slower than an MV 1000!  MV need to raise money, and certainly can't afford to put their 800 into production.  There's an opportunity here for Triumph.

2.  1200 chain/shaft.  It is very difficult to bring out an engine in both chain-drive and shaft-drive forms.  If you do design an engine with both variants, the only way you can do so is to build in compromises.  Compromises which mean that neither version will be as good as a competitor's non-compromised equivalent.  So, even if there is a 1200 (or any other capacity for that matter), it won't be available in both chain and shaft.

3.  Daytona 1100 to race in WSB.  Me likey!  But anyone going into the 1000+ super-sports league now needs to do so in the light/shadow of the BMW S1000R (I can't be bothered with BMW's spaces).  That's only just out, so manufacturers, including Triumph, have only just begun to have the opportunity to dismantle it and find out how they can do better - or as well.  So even if there had been an 1100 sports triple in the pipeline, it will probably need to be cancelled - no point launching against a superior BMW.  The re-engineering could take years.  especially if a tear-up-the-old and start-again-from-scratch approach is needed.

4.  All-new 675.  No.  Not while the "old" one is still competitive.

So much for disagreeing with someone else's predictions.  What do I myself predict?  I hope for a 1100 Daytona, but can't see it.  The ST1050 and S3 1050 are getting long in the tooth, so could be replaced by a new 1100(?)(ish) triple.  A 675 Tiger Cub would be easy, and sell well.  Maybe a 675 "Sprint ST" too. As regards Triumph's "new categories", I haven't a clue.  I wait with baited breath.

[swimmer]

Sptifire, your remarks about the 800cc range only relate to SS motorcycle which of course the Tiger or Sprint would not be competing.  I would just like to see someone make an ST type motorcycle in the 800cc or less range that isn't budget spec'd and feels refined the way my VFR does.  Granted I don't have 10 motorcycles worth of ownership experience but my VFR is the first time riding a motorcycle with an engine that has character and it's tough to see me going back to something more bland like an inline 4 or a twin and this is one of my main reasons for keeping an eye on the triumph line.

[Schneegz]

1.  800cc bikes. Maybe, but to the majority of the purchasing public these are neither one thing nor the other. Not as nimble and unthreatening as a 600, not as fast and threatening as a 1000+.  Consider the market for 750-fours; only one manufacturer, Suzuki, thinks it worthwhile.  The other manufacturers aren't stupid. They refrain from entering the market because they know it is (barely) big enough for one supplier.
Note: If Triumph did want to go into 800s, there is actually a way they could do so quickly, cheaply, and effectively:  Buy and build MV Agusta's prototype 800 triple.  Apparently the sports version laps at only a second slower than an MV 1000!  MV need to raise money, and certainly can't afford to put their 800 into production.  There's an opportunity here for Triumph.

The first part of this statement only makes sense when considering super sports, as swimmer said.  BMW alone sells three bikes of 800cc capacity in the US, four in Europe.  Ducati sells two bikes of near-800cc capacity.  Aprilia sells three bikes between 750cc - 800cc.  

The second part of this statement doesn't make sense under any circumstances.  Triumph has a history of expanding capacity in their engines.  They'll do the same with the 675cc, probably by adding stroke.  They'll bump it up to somewhere between 750cc and 800cc.  It makes no sense for Triumph to buy an engine from another manufacturer when they have one of their own they can modify, especially given MV's status as a perpetual basket case.  Triumph would probably have to rework the whole thing just to make it run properly.

2.  1200 chain/shaft.  It is very difficult to bring out an engine in both chain-drive and shaft-drive forms.  If you do design an engine with both variants, the only way you can do so is to build in compromises.  Compromises which mean that neither version will be as good as a competitor's non-compromised equivalent.  So, even if there is a 1200 (or any other capacity for that matter), it won't be available in both chain and shaft.

No it's not.  Kawasaki does just this with the ZX14/Concourse.  The two applications simply call for different transmissions, which they'd have to build anyway for bikes of different weights intended for different purposes.

3.  Daytona 1100 to race in WSB.  Me likey!  But anyone going into the 1000+ super-sports league now needs to do so in the light/shadow of the BMW S1000R (I can't be bothered with BMW's spaces).  That's only just out, so manufacturers, including Triumph, have only just begun to have the opportunity to dismantle it and find out how they can do better - or as well.  So even if there had been an 1100 sports triple in the pipeline, it will probably need to be cancelled - no point launching against a superior BMW.  The re-engineering could take years.  especially if a tear-up-the-old and start-again-from-scratch approach is needed.

The Aprilia was more competitive than the BMW, and neither did as well as Ducati or Yamaha, so setting up the BMW as some kind of insurmountable boogie man makes no sense either.

4.  All-new 675.  No.  Not while the "old" one is still competitive.

The current one won't be competitive much longer.  The Japanese are in a hold pattern right now, but that won't last long.

[SpitfireTriple]

Some very valid points here.  And some that I'd argue are less than valid.  I'll concede that there are some successful 800-ish bikes outside the ss field.  I myself would consider a BMW ST800 or GS800, certainly in comparison to their bloated boxer bigger brothers..

I don't concede that Triumph could stretch the 675 the way they stretched so many other models.  I reckon that Triumph squeezed as much as they could into a tiny package with the 675; I doubt there's room for expansion.  I may be wrong.

"It makes no sense for Triumph..." (to buy MV's design). Disagree.   MV has not been commercially successful.  But its engineering has been pretty damn good.  It's only in the last few months that the MV has lost its crown as world's fastest bike - this from a design that is well over ten years old.  If Triumph can pick up a good design (assuming it's good, I hear good things about it), for a pittance, why not?  If you don't already know the story, see if you can find out how Soichiro Honda got into the bike business.

Nor will I concede the ZX1400 point. Kawasaki's compromise will have made the ZX14 heavier than it needed to be.  Other things will have been compromised too.  You can get away with such compromises on 1400cc barges; you can't on 1000ish ss bikes - the competition is just too fierce.

setting up the BMW as some kind of insurmountable boogie man makes no sense either.  It's widely regarded (and by wiser and more knowledgeable men than me) to be the finest production SS bike on the planet. That makes it a "boogie man" under anyone's bed.

Nor do I concede re the 675.  I agree it has been out for a while now.  But it still sells well.  To run a successful (ie profitable) manufacturing company, you need to milk your products for as long as you can  between new models. (But no longer of course).


Interesting times await we Triumph-watchers.  Should we be careful what we wish for?

[Croak]

Just keep in mind that Triumph has always followed a pretty regular 5-6 year model replacement schedule for the last two decades for it's non-Classic bikes, along with a pretty consistent mid-life refresh 2 or 3 years into production.

The new Speed Triple and Sprint were introduced in 2005. 

The Sprint got a minor upgrade in ergos in 2007 and got the rest of it's mid-life refresh in 2008 (tank, lights, etc), it's now time for a fresh version.

The Speed Triple also got a pretty extensive upgrade suite in 2008 (wheels, brakes, body panels, exhaust, etc), and as above, it's about time for the next model to roll out.

The Daytona 675 was introduced in 2006, got a major revamp in 2009 (bodywork, motor, chassis), and is due for a replacement no later than 2012 using the "two years after mid-life updgrades" logic.   Also keep in mind the 2010 White/Blue SE Daytona, another indicator of an EOL product from Triumph.

The Street Triple came to the party late, as a 2008 model, and hasn't had its mid-life upgrade yet (the R model doesn't count as an upgrade), so it's due for a mid-life change in 2011/2012, and a new model in 2012/2013.

The current Tiger released as a 2007 model, and I expect it's first real mid-life upgrade will be for the '11 model year, especially if the 1050 motor goes out of production, with an entirely new model no later than 2013.

Long story short, Triumph builds a model for 5-6 years, refreshes them once during that period, and then releases an all-new model.  Even when sales are strong for a current model, they still roll out the new model.  They MUST do this, or lose both potential new customers checking out the new model hype,  past customers who generally won't replace their current Triumph until a new model is released, and simply keeping up with the competition and technology advances.

As for increasing displacement on the 675, that's a foregone conclusion in my book.  It's Hinkley Triumph 101...invest in a platform with the intent of getting decades of service out of it.  And after talking to my favourite Triumph mechanic (and talented amateur D675 racer and builder), there's plenty of room to both stroke and bore the 675.  

As I said before, I expect them to stroke it to 750cc first, but a stroked motor will NOT go in the Daytona, it'll be used in the Street Triple and small Tiger (if they make it), where giving up maximum RPM is a fair trade for picking up more usable lower RPM power/torque, and for those models, there are no racing rules bodies to fight about displacement.

[Schneegz]

"It makes no sense for Triumph..." (to buy MV's design). Disagree.   MV has not been commercially successful.  But its engineering has been pretty damn good.  It's only in the last few months that the MV has lost its crown as world's fastest bike - this from a design that is well over ten years old.  If Triumph can pick up a good design (assuming it's good, I hear good things about it), for a pittance, why not?  If you don't already know the story, see if you can find out how Soichiro Honda got into the bike business.

That's a big assumption, especially considering that they already have a spectacularly good 675cc triple to upgrade

Nor will I concede the ZX1400 point. Kawasaki's compromise will have made the ZX14 heavier than it needed to be.  Other things will have been compromised too.  You can get away with such compromises on 1400cc barges; you can't on 1000ish ss bikes - the competition is just too fierce.

Who said anything about "1000ish ss bikes"?  The Sprint and Trophy will grow to roughly 1200cc, and neither of them will be - or ever were - ss bikes.

setting up the BMW as some kind of insurmountable boogie man makes no sense either.  It's widely regarded (and by wiser and more knowledgeable men than me) to be the finest production SS bike on the planet. That makes it a "boogie man" under anyone's bed.

Irrelevant.  The only relevant factor in racing is results.

Highest standing by manufacturer in 2009

Yamaha        1
Ducati           2
Aprilia           4
Honda          5
Suzuki          12
BMW            13

If the BMW is the boogie man you say it is, why did it score no higher than 13?  Why did the Aprilia, which was also a brand-new design, score so much higher?

Then there are the latest results from the Phillip Island Superpole.

1. Leon Haslam (Suzuki) 1'31.229
2. Michel Fabrizio (Ducati) 1'31.245
3. Cal Crutchlow (Yamaha) 1'31.642
4. Carlos Checa (Ducati) 1'31.671
5. Sylvain Guintoli (Suzuki) 1'31.696
6. Jakub Smrz (Ducati) 1'31.757
7. Jonathan Rea (Honda) 1'31.912
8. James Toseland (Yamaha) 1'32.019
9. Lorenzo Lanzi (Ducati) 1'32.205
10. Noriyuki Haga (Ducati) 1'32.229
11. Max Biaggi (Aprilia) 1'32.293
12. Tom Sykes (Kawasaki) 1'32.398
13. Troy Corser (BMW) 1'32.430

Explain to me the logic in holding up the BMW as the bike to beat.

Nor do I concede re the 675.  I agree it has been out for a while now.  But it still sells well.  To run a successful (ie profitable) manufacturing company, you need to milk your products for as long as you can  between new models. (But no longer of course).

To continue to sell well, the 675 will need to continue to be competitive with the Japanese.  To continue to be competitive with the Japanese, Triumph will have to update it.

[Schneegz]

MCN claims to have a spy pic of the new Sprint ST, but they won't show it online yet.  There will probably be scans of the article on T595.net within a week or two.

[MadOzodi]

Can't wait to see what the frikkin headlights look like.  I'm almost finished with my HID bulb swap on my '09.

[GerryPetrecca]

Can't wait to see what the frikkin headlights look like.  I'm almost finished with my HID bulb swap on my '09.

Never mind what they look like...do they actually light up the road!!

[caddydaddy]

MCN claims to have a spy pic of the new Sprint ST, but they won't show it online yet.  

As long as the new Sprint isn't a fat pig of a sportbike like the FJR, C14 and the new VFR, I'd be cool with it!  

[MadOzodi]

Never mind what they look like...do they actually light up the road!!

Indeed, that's what I meant to write.  

and I'd like to add "...when leaning in corners?!?!"

Do you guys really think we'll see a new engine?

[Schneegz]

Do you guys really think we'll see a new engine?

Definitely.

I predict a roughly 1200cc triple that will be shared between the Sprint, Speed Triple and, eventually, a new Trophy and new Tiger.

The 1200cc Tiger should not be confused with the < 800cc Tiger, which will appear sooner.  

[Punchdude]

Here's another log on the fire....

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7421/triumph2011.jpg

[Schneegz]

Here's another log on the fire....

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7421/triumph2011.jpg

That log deserves full viewing mode.

[caddydaddy]

Here's another log on the fire....

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7421/triumph2011.jpg

The bags on the Sprint look like they're off a BMW!

[Rincewind]

Here's another log on the fire....

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7421/triumph2011.jpg

That Motard thing looks hot.  I like the family resemblance to the Speed/Street Triples in the flyscreen and bug-eye lights.  The bug eyes on my Street are better at night than the projection lights on the faired Triumphs.

An 1100cc triple based on the 675 design sounds like it may reduce some weight and hopefully increase the rev range over the 1050.

[Punchdude]

sure do. Strada or Beemer bags on current Sprint front end..

[Croak]

Actually, they look like Futura bags, which is kind of fitting because I'm certain the Futura had a big influence over the 1050 Sprint's aesthetics.

[Galo]

That log deserves full viewing mode.

  Yes, da Sprint. Must.......have.........job..........by ...........then...................

[Rincewind]

Croak is right - they look like a lot like the Futura bags.  So... looks like new bags and a new exhaust - I hope there's more than that.

I swiped this from the Triumph RAT forum.



Eagle-eyed MC reader Mike Morgan snatched this shot of the new Triumph Sprint ST undergoing testing on the M6 last week.

The picture confirms rumours that Triumph will launch a new version of the sports tourer later this year, though MCN understands it will be a 1050cc, not a1200.
Morgan, 28, from Dunfermline, Scot¬land, was travelling to work in his car on the southbound carriageway when he spotted the bike. He owns a 2007 Triumph Sprint ST l050 and quickly realised it was a heavily updated version of his bike.
He told MCN: "I'm normally pretty good at identifying bikes but when I first saw this I thought it was a Kawasaki GTR1400 because of the shape of the exhaust silencer and the size of the panniers.

"As soon as I drew up next to it I realised from the fairing shape that it was a new version of the Sprint ST. I got to play cat-and mouse with the bike for 10 minutes before he realised I was trying to take a picture."

The Sprint has remained largely unchanged since it was launched in 2005 and the biggest differences with the new bike look to be the removal of space-robbing underseat exhausts in favour of a substantial triangular shaped end can.

This frees up space at the back of the bike and because of the different routing of the exhaust, also dramatically reduces the amount of heat getting through to the riders' crotch area. Morgan said: “The exhaust is one on the few drawbacks on my bike so it was good to see the underseat pipes changed. As a result, the panniers are massive compared to mine and that will really add to the appeal of the bike as a touring option.
"Underneath the sub frame there is a matt black plastic panel that blanks off where the old underseat exhaust ran
"It also looks like the sub frame and pillion seat are a lot lower which means the pillion won’t be as exposed to windblast.”

Despite the Sprint getting a major overhaul for 2010 Mike s said the bike is till clearly identifiable as a Sprint ST. The familiar front lights remain almost unchanged although they are thinner in profile.
Despite rumours that the ST’s engine would be bored out to 1200 the Triumph test bike is registered as a 1050cc. It's also chain-driven despite persistent rumours that the new bike would be changing to shaft drive.
Triumph refused to comment on the sighting.


http://www.triumphrat.net/sprint-forum/134299-new-model-sprint.html

[Schneegz]

I thought that would turn up soon.  The new bags look huge, which addresses a lot of current owners' complaints.  They could be hiding the test bike underneath the bodywork from the current bike.  I'd be surprised if they stuck with the same engine.  The 1050 triple has been around for a very long time, if you consider that it's a heavily upgraded version of the old 885.  

[Galo]

I thought that would turn up soon.  The new bags look huge, which addresses a lot of current owners' complaints.  They could be hiding the test bike underneath the bodywork from the current bike.  I'd be surprised if they stuck with the same engine.  The 1050 triple has been around for a very long time, if you consider that it's a heavily upgraded version of the old 885.  

 

[bubba zanetti]

Here's another log on the fire....

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7421/triumph2011.jpg

Can't open that for some reason.  

[expatbrit]

Talking to a local dealer, I've also heard about a 'much more off-road focused Tiger'. Sounds like that Tiger Trail, or the Tiger Cub!

[MadOzodi]

I'm not very knowledgable when it comes to engine block or bore x stroke numbers, but are the dimensions on the 675 such that displacement could be increased to 1050cc and not suffer from doing so, i.e., rev limit capped at 9500k rpms?

[Schneegz]

Here's the full scan from the lunatics at the T595.net asylum.

[sammyseaman]

Here's the full scan from the lunatics at the T595.net asylum.

Cool  
The only bad thing about the single muffler is it covers up the coolness of having a SSS. And if they get rid of the SSS? Shame on you Triumph  

[Galo]

I'm not very knowledgable when it comes to engine block or bore x stroke numbers, but are the dimensions on the 675 such that displacement could be increased to 1050cc and not suffer from doing so, i.e., rev limit capped at 9500k rpms?

I don't know either but personally, the tractor-like power band of the 955/1050 mill is very much to my liking...I dont need or want 12k RPMs with a flat line under 7k....

[Schneegz]

I don't know either but personally, the tractor-like power band of the 955/1050 mill is very much to my liking...I dont need or want 12k RPMs with a flat line under 7k....

Triumph typically does a really good job of building engines with flat, predictable, usable torque curves.  Take a look at this Street Triple dyno graph.



If they take the time to design such a sweet curve into a 675cc hooligan bike, I seriously doubt they'd do any differently with a 1000+cc ST bike.

[Bryan217]

That log deserves full viewing mode.

The 2 pictures of the Sprint are different. The spy picture has the curved luggage. The other one just looks like standard Givi fare.

[Schneegz]

The 2 pictures of the Sprint are different. The spy picture has the curved luggage. The other one just looks like standard Givi fare.

The Sprint in the middle of the page is the current one.  Notice how the side cases in the spy pic above are the same as the ones on this spy pic.

[Schneegz]

More pics of the new Sprint from MCN, courtesy of T595.net.

[Rincewind]

Looks like some good changes for touring.  That rear rack looks much more substantial than the current setup.  But all in all it looks like only incremental changes and not really a new generation bike especially if it is to use the same 1050 engine as indicated.  I suppose that will keep costs down though, which is good.

[crispiegee1]

Looks like some good changes for touring.  That rear rack looks much more substantial than the current setup.  But all in all it looks like only incremental changes and not really a new generation bike especially if it is to use the same 1050 engine as indicated.  I suppose that will keep costs down though, which is good.

The article from MCN indicated that, despite the displacement remaining the same, it would be a newer, lighter, more powerful and more compact engine. That's the ideal news for me... lower weight is more important to me than more cubic inches. A liter is plenty large for a motorcycle engine.

[Rincewind]

The article from MCN indicated that, despite the displacement remaining the same, it would be a newer, lighter, more powerful and more compact engine. That's the ideal news for me... lower weight is more important to me than more cubic inches. A liter is plenty large for a motorcycle engine.

The pics above say specifically that the bike "will retain the 1050 motor of the current model."  I have not read the full article, that sounds pretty curious if they'd retain the 1050cc size with a new generation engine.  I have no problem with NOT increasing the 1050cc's - heck I dropped down to 675cc's of triple and I'm still stoked with it - but it would be an odd move for Triumph not to do 1150cc's with their new engine, like the bump from 885/900 to 955 to 1050.

[Croak]

Maybe not, Rincewind.  The displacement increases on the triples was purely due to stroking the same old block, as a way of getting more power out of it.  And they want to keep closer to the 1000cc range for a "universal" motor design in any case, just to keep the strong-selling and reviewer-loved Speed Triple in the same size classification.  Bump it up to 1200cc and it's in a class of its own (and a whole new, more expensive insurance class too).

If they bump the Sprint to 1200cc, it also means more direct comparisions to the road pigs tourers like the FJR, comparisions the Sprint will lose because those fools discerning shoppers aren't looking for the features that make the Sprint great, they're looking for heated center stands, electric mirrors, dual zone climate control, and cupholders.

The Tiger is the only one that wouldn't move out of its class that much by going up in displacement, since the GS, Stelvio, MTS1200, and Bandit are already up there and they're already direct competitors to the Tiger.

[Schneegz]

It's possible that Triumph will keep the old 1050cc triple in the new Sprint, but it seems unlikely.  It won't be able to keep up with emissions regulations and simultaneously keep improving in power and torque.  They'll need a new design to achieve that.  The old 1050cc triple is also rumored to be heavier than newer engines of similar displacement.

I wish the picture taker would've taken a shot of the forks.  I'd like to see if Triumph improved the suspension and brakes.

[Croak]

I never did see what all the fuss was about with Sprint brakes, they've always been excellent binders for me.  

At least the 1050's got cartridge forks rather than damping rod units on the 955, and Triumph builds these things for real roads, not track days (something a lot of riders and reviewers overlook, especially if they spent a lot of time on stiff sportbikes and think that's how a bike is always supposed to feel..that includes braking, btw)

The other issue is, if everyone wants radial mount brakes and preload/rebound/compression adjusting USD forks on this bike, the price-point goes upwards, and the bike really doesn't become all that much better (RSU forks work just fine, so do old-fashioned mount calipers).  It just checks off more arbitrary boxes.  

[Schneegz]

I never did see what all the fuss was about with Sprint brakes, they've always been excellent binders for me.  

At least the 1050's got cartridge forks rather than damping rod units on the 955, and Triumph builds these things for real roads, not track days (something a lot of riders and reviewers overlook, especially if they spent a lot of time on stiff sportbikes and think that's how a bike is always supposed to feel..that includes braking, btw)

The other issue is, if everyone wants radial mount brakes and preload/rebound/compression adjusting USD forks on this bike, the price-point goes upwards, and the bike really doesn't become all that much better (RSU forks work just fine, so do old-fashioned mount calipers).  It just checks off more arbitrary boxes.  

1) Male slider ("upside down") forks, adjustable suspension and radially mounted brakes are not just for track bikes.  One could argue that a touring bike needs them just as much as, if not more than, a track bike.  Why?  A touring bike will likely spend some of its time on the road with only the rider, some with the rider and bags, and some with the rider, a passenger, bags and a top case.  

Each change in weight changes the bike's geometry, which changes its handling characteristics.  Adjustable suspension addresses those changes, and no; pre-load adjustment cannot address those changes by itself.

As for radially mounted brakes; a heavier bike needs better brakes.  Why would you want less braking ability on a bike that will be loaded down with a rider, passenger and three cases full of luggage?

2) USD forks and adjustable suspension need not be any less comfortable than female slider forks.  In fact, because they're adjustable, the rider can tune them for his/her and the passenger's comfort, especially if the suspension is developed for the street, which the Sprint's will be (is?).

3) These are not "arbitrary" components.  When designed properly they really do perform better than more traditional components.

4) Yes, these components cost more.  Save your pennies.

[omnivore]

Dear Triumph-Please build this for me. Thx.

[falconati]

Pretty much the best photoshop I've ever seen

[crispiegee1]

Pretty much the best photoshop I've ever seen

+1

[crispiegee1]

It's possible that Triumph will keep the old 1050cc triple in the new Sprint, but it seems unlikely.  It won't be able to keep up with emissions regulations and simultaneously keep improving in power and torque.  They'll need a new design to achieve that.  The old 1050cc triple is also rumored to be heavier than newer engines of similar displacement.

I wish the picture taker would've taken a shot of the forks.  I'd like to see if Triumph improved the suspension and brakes.

I hope they can do the power increase and weight decrease without sacrificing the reliability of the 1050 engine. Remember how (I think it was Motorrad magazine) did a longevity/wear test of competing engines?  The 1050 kicked butt in that.

[Schneegz]

I hope they can do the power increase and weight decrease without sacrificing the reliability of the 1050 engine. Remember how (I think it was Motorrad magazine) did a longevity/wear test of competing engines?  The 1050 kicked but in that.

I don't see why not.  Although, like with most engines, it'll probably take a couple years of teething to reach the design's full potential.

[jhawk]

Local dealer says the next 3 new offerings from Triumph will be:

675cc Tiger = off-road version

675cc Tiger = street version

Trophy, touring/sport touring = shaft drive, bags, electric windscreen, etc.

 

[Roadscum]

I can't see Triumph going to a shaft final drive. They invested in belt technology for the new T-Bird, I'm thinking they would want to use the belt for the touring line, lighter and  more effecint then a shaft. With moderns belts reliability is not an issue.

[Croak]

They also made a shaft for the Rocket III, so they've got experience with both.

[bomber]

I can't see Triumph going to a shaft final drive. They invested in belt technology for the new T-Bird, I'm thinking they would want to use the belt for the touring line, lighter and  more effecint then a shaft. With moderns belts reliability is not an issue.

Er, define "modern."

I've seen a bunch of black snakes falling from the sky in the last 10 years . . . . . . .

If Triumph's going after the FJR/BMW market with the new bike, shaft drive is one of the selling points, I'm thinkin.

[maddjack]

I'd rather have a belt myself

[JoBu]

I'd rather have a belt myself

I'd like to see more belt drives offered on quite a few bikes.  I like the idea of less maintenance.  Not so much for local rides, but on a trip it's nice to not worry about cleaning/lubing the chain after so many miles or after being caught in the rain.  

And although I like the looks of the high pipes, I'd prefer the new (wishing) Tiger Cub and redesign of the current Tiger to have a low pipe.  Less weight, lower center of gravity, and expand storage capacity of the hard bag.

Cheers,

Joe

[omnivore]

Just fit the low Arrow from the Street Triple. My buddy used the Speed triple one on his 1050 Tiger and it rocks, is lower, sounds awesome, and weighs a ton less.  And it looks great too.

They better fit ABS to it as well. Kawi and Suzuki have , so I think they need to.

I'd like to see more belt drives offered on quite a few bikes.  I like the idea of less maintenance.  Not so much for local rides, but on a trip it's nice to not worry about cleaning/lubing the chain after so many miles or after being caught in the rain.  

And although I like the looks of the high pipes, I'd prefer the new (wishing) Tiger Cub and redesign of the current Tiger to have a low pipe.  Less weight, lower center of gravity, and expand storage capacity of the hard bag.

Cheers,

Joe

[maddjack]

And although I like the looks of the high pipes, I'd prefer the new (wishing) Tiger Cub and redesign of the current Tiger to have a low pipe.  Less weight, lower center of gravity, and expand storage capacity of the hard bag. Cheers,

Joe

Amen to that, underbelly opens up the soft bag option too, and hard bags are full size ,not one with a notch

[Rincewind]

New pic of the Sprint GT that I found...


ALSO - May 17th is supposed to be press release day for a...  new Tiger (?) per T595.net

[Clint]

http://www.advrider.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=231270&d=1273901874

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=579612

[Clint]

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_1002_first_look_2010_triumphs/index.html

[Rincewind]

"To be released next week"?  Pretty exciting.  I hope there is a lot of underseat storage with the new model, now that the exhaust is out of the way.  I'd like to see if they moved the battery back, too, and did a keylock seat, and if the pillion seat was enlarged.

[MadOzodi]

It looks like a huge improvement to the lights.

[Rincewind]

Triumph redid their UK site - http://www.triumphmotorcycles.co.uk/ - and this hints at the new 'categories' which were discussed previously.  

Gone are the trifecta of "Urban Sports", "Modern Classics", and "Cruisers."  

Now they have listed their six "new" categories of bikes including Touring, Adventure, Supersports, Roadsters, Classics and Cruisers.  Granted some of the new categories are now pretty lonely, made up of a single bike.  Will we see additional bikes in the Supersports, Adventure, and Touring brackets?  I guess we'll have to wait and see - for now, these categories give a vague blueprint for future bikes.

The US Triumph site has not yet been updated.

[falconati]

Sweet.  My guess is extensions into those markets.  What does that mean?  I'm not sure.

Will we see a 1050cc inline-triple supersport?

[KodiakRS]

ST is getting updated instead of dumped for the GT as some people guessed it would!

From the triumph website:


 

[Croak]

In the UK they are continuing the ST alongside the GT.  In the US they are indeed dropping the ST in lieu of the GT.  Not sure what they are doing for Canada.