H/D - What is the Deal?

[bikerstarfjr08]

This is not really meant to bash the HD brand ..but I am sure a lot of folks might disagree. What I do not get about the HD brand and its fanatical following is why will folks plunk down ridiculous amounts of money on a motorcycle that is, well, overpriced (IMHO) underpowered (I think fairly well documented) and somewhat behind the curve in technology (I realize in some areas, HD has improved).

Once purchased, the proud new owner then spends thousands of dollars on performance upgrades and is still not in the arena with the top end metric cruisers.

I once owned a 2006 Yamaha Roadliner (I now have an FJR) that had 101 HP at the rear wheel and 117 lb/ft. Those are not stock numbers but I only spent $750.00 to get it to those numbers. The Roadliner was incredible in the twistys and pulled like a freight train. It looked great (even got compliments from the HD crowd), ran terrific and cost a lot less than the comparable HD model.

I just do not get it. Why do so many folks spend so much money on a bike that just does not perform? I know it has something to do with the life style thing and to some degree the herd mentality and more likely the ego thing. Maybe it is just the t-shirts. I remain confused.
 

[chornbe]

Thank God you're here to ask these questions. Finally, some discussion might come to light on this topic. Especially since everyone here on this sites owns and loves Harleys so, so very much!

MY GOD WHY HASN'T ANYONE ASKED QUESTIONS LIKE THIS BEFORE!



(yes, I'm well aware this was an asinine and cocky & sarcastic answer)

[Playinthestreet]

I remain confused.

Ah, Grasshopper... It'll come to you one day.
 

[mugwump58]

In the end, life is short. Make yourself happy and try not to object to other people doing the same unless of course...

[UFO]

Because people are different.

They != You.
You != Them.

[DCLXVI]

As stated by yourself, you just don't get it. Until you get it all the explinations and opinions in the world won't matter.

[dtor]

Jesus, just when you think that there can't *possibly* be another smug, clueless, noobtwat "motorcyclist" out there, up pops the trite "Please help me understand" bash.

[DogBoy]

You meant to tell me that HD's don't perform like other bikes? Oh my word how did the Good Lord let this happen? Mercy Me!

[greench440]

We must be getting deep into winter, even the HD bashing threads are getting lame.  I give him a 2.

[falcofred]

If we have to explain, you wouldn't understand  

[BobW]

In the end, life is short. Make yourself happy and try not to object to other people doing the same unless of course...

The Secret of Life    

[MadMax96]

I get why people like Harleys.  Tradition, classic styling, American Iron, etc..  I personally appreciate the technology of the other brands, but many other people just don't care about that stuff.  BUT - HD spends a lot of effort incorporating technology while keeping the bikes look and feel the same because that's what customers want (drive by wire, ABS, new frame design on touring bikes, etc...)  I've really stopped caring about which bike people choose - at least they're on two wheels.  It's the small percentage that think only HDs are "real bikes" - those people are 'tards.  Every HD owner I've run into while on road trips are super nice folks.

This is what I DON'T GET -> it's some (most?) of the Harley owners I see.  Do they really need to wear Harley branded shirts/boots/gloves/belts/sweatshirts/socks and even the occasional helmet?  Many of these are guys are really into supporting this American brand - and that's fine with me.  BUT when they buy all that [overpriced] crap don't they notice almost none of it's actually made here?  

I'm not bad mouthing the HD company - more power to them.  Obviously marketing genius at work here.  Slap your name on ANYTHING and some schlub WILL buy it even if they don't own a bike.  Give me 1% of the money made on just their stickers and I could probably retire next month.

The guys riding HD bikes who wear all the apparel look like rolling billboards.  A friend of mine really wants an EG Ultra - I hope he's able to afford it in the next year or so.  I asked him - "you aren't going to buy all that other HD crap too are you??"  He laughed and gave me an honest "no way."  We'll see.......

[wvrider]

I've never owned a HD. I have owned Kawasaki, Honda, Bmw, Triumph, Ducati and I will and do ride anything with two wheels and a motor and have fun doing so. What I dont get is all the "i dont get it" questions from people about HD. Why arent they asking the same question about Yamaha, Honda, etc.? They all have their shock troops (I admit Harley has the most visible and vocal). Many have their own form of "uniform". Anyway, I am currently very serious about a new EG. The only thing I waver on is the price...its steep to be sure. That said, having test rode them and other tourers I just like how it feels better than the rest and I think that will hold sway on this cycle purchase. Yep, its not as fast...so what. I'm not as fast either but I dont beat myself up over it. It is more comfortable, has abs, cruise and built in communications, handles very well for a 880lb bike and good warranty coverage and beautiful finish work. Shops are everywhere yet maintenance is minimal (go figure that one out Honda and Yamaha on your cruisers). Its a little on the loud side (stock even) but that is a property that reminds me that I ride a MOTOR cycle. I can live with that I think. Hey if Star offered ABS and cruise on their Roadliner I might buy one (I almost did before I bought my Tiger, the liner has a nice motor and frame but still short on ground clearance) but they dont.

Ride what you like, you will have more fun.

Phil

[Geoff]

What I do not get about the HD brand and its fanatical following is why will folks plunk down ridiculous amounts of money on a motorcycle that is, well, overpriced (IMHO) underpowered.

It might come as a surprise but not everyone follows your purchase critera.  

[kevin_stevens]

Why do people spend tens of thousands of dollars to restore a Porsche 356 or first-gen Corvette, only to end up with an uncompetitive, unreliable automobile that by any objective criteria is hopelessly out of date?

More importantly, why do you care?

KeS

[bikerstarfjr08]

Why do people spend tens of thousands of dollars to restore a Porsche 356 or first-gen Corvette, only to end up with an uncompetitive, unreliable automobile that by any objective criteria is hopelessly out of date?

More importantly, why do you care?

KeS

So, I guess what you are trying to get at is that the restoration of a classic car, that at the time it was manufactured was up to date technologically and fairly priced for what you got for the money, is analogous to buying a NEW - current year - motorcycle that is NOT. Did I miss your point or did you really have one?

On your second captivating question - I do not care all that much, just curious.

[kevin_stevens]

On your second captivating question - I do not care all that much, just curious.

Then I won't waste any more of my time.

KeS

[wvrider]

So, I guess what you are trying to get at is that the restoration of a classic car, that at the time it was manufactured was up to date technologically and fairly priced for what you got for the money, is analogous to buying a NEW - current year - motorcycle that is NOT. Did I miss your point or did you really have one?

On your second captivating question - I do not care all that much, just curious.

OK troll you have now climbed out from the shadow of the bridge and exposed the true meaning of the "question".

[Geoff]

Me thinks bikerstarfjr08 is bike curious about Harleys.  

[Playinthestreet]

As in "methinks though protest too much"

[birdrunner]

the OP should look up any posts from Orson,  replace the words Gucci with HD, and he'll perhaps feel the fanatical following of the unwashed masses.  ( ).  An hey,  nobody parties like an CPA on an HOG.

Actually, they're not that overpriced anymore.   Check out pricing on any KTM, FJR, V-maz, or the new VFR.

[chornbe]

the OP should look up any posts from Orson,  replace the words Gucci with HD, and he'll perhaps feel the fanatical following of the unwashed masses.  ( ).  An hey,  nobody parties like an CPA on an HOG.

Actually, they're not that overpriced anymore.   Check out pricing on any KTM, FJR, V-maz, or the new VFR.

... or Star, or Victory, or Vulcans, or... and so on.

[atadaskew]

... or Star, or Victory, or Vulcans, or... and so on.

Last year Honda was trying to see how many suckers would pay $17K for their top spec VTX1800 cruiser.

Turns out not too many...

[MadMax96]

Last year Honda was trying to see how many suckers would pay $17K for their top spec VTX1800 cruiser.

Turns out not too many...

And their top spec VTX didn't have that much.  I know a guy who was considering one but also checked out a Street Glide.  Due to the time of year he purchased it he was able to get the HD with a nice discount - which put it at less than $2k difference.  Not a hard decision when you factor in resale value.

[Geoff]

Last year Honda was trying to see how many suckers would pay $17K for their top spec VTX1800 cruiser.

Turns out not too many...

Ditto for the 2009 Yamaha V-Max, priced $17 large. Who do these companies think they are, Harley-Davidson?  

[chornbe]

Ditto for the 2009 Yamaha V-Max, priced $17 large. Who do these companies think they are, Harley-Davidson?  

If you want a cruiser-styled bike and performance is the key, you can buy a Harley (between $13k - $18k for the Dyna frames) and drop another $3k - $6k on big build kits for it, or you can drop $17+k for the Max and eat every Harley's lunch ever built (except for full-on drag racing monsters).

And you can also take serious turns, buy good tires and stop with the best of them.

Look, I love me some Harleys, and a well-fitted Dyna is a serious contender when it comes to making you smile and kicking some butt unexpectedly, but the 'Max will just destroy anything Harley puts out in every fashion (for the intended use).

I wouldn't buy one for touring, but for just ripping around, looking cool and doing some reasonable short-duration trips, the 'Max isn't a bad contender - IF... IF... you want a real fire breathing monster.

The "IF" there is the real consideration...

[Bikenut]

I get why people like Harleys.  ...............................

This is what I DON'T GET -> it's some (most?) of the Harley owners I see.  Do they really need to wear Harley branded shirts/boots/gloves/belts/sweatshirts/socks and even the occasional helmet?  Many of these are guys are really into supporting this American brand - and that's fine with me.  BUT when they buy all that [overpriced] crap don't they notice almost none of it's actually made here?  

I'm not bad mouthing the HD company - more power to them.  Obviously marketing genius at work here.  Slap your name on ANYTHING and some schlub WILL buy it even if they don't own a bike.  Give me 1% of the money made on just their stickers and I could probably retire next month.

The guys riding HD bikes who wear all the apparel look like rolling billboards.  A friend of mine really wants an EG Ultra - I hope he's able to afford it in the next year or so.  I asked him - "you aren't going to buy all that other HD crap too are you??"  He laughed and gave me an honest "no way."  We'll see.......

To this day the ONLY thing I own with "Harley Davidson" on it is a motorcycle. But I did just buy my wife a nice fleece jacket for Christmas.

.....Fleece, now there's the pun of the day.  HD =  hunnerd dolla

[mugwump58]

I'll admit to looking at Nodaclu and 883's bikes and going hmmm.... but then I'm looking at a K75 on the internet as well

[chornbe]

I'll admit to looking at Nodaclu and 883's bikes and going hmmm.... but then I'm looking at a K75 on the internet as well

Not to sound like a broken record... ok, wtf... entirely to sound like a broken record   ... This is THE most fun bike I've ever owned. It love this thing!

[atadaskew]

Not to sound like a broken record...

 

[Playinthestreet]

I'll admit to looking at Nodaclu and 883's bikes and going hmmm.... but then I'm looking at a K75 on the internet as well

I had a pretty nice example of an 88 K-75S a couple of years ago.  Was a decent bike, served me well, but didn't "call" to me from the garage.  I haven't started my Tiger since I brought the bagger home on 11/6.

[mugwump58]

So are those Givi brackets or home-made? Sadly HB doesn't seem to make racks for HD. Can I run my electric vest and gloves?  I feel the tug of the dark side..... Of course it could just be cause it's winter, almost. Lots of HD's on craigslist, none of the other bikes I'd like to consider. Everything else is very low volume around here, you'll never see a VFR on craigslist here, or a V Strom or.....

[Geoff]

If you want a cruiser-styled bike and performance is the key, you can buy a Harley (between $13k - $18k for the Dyna frames) and drop another $3k - $6k on big build kits for it, or you can drop $17+k for the Max and eat every Harley's lunch ever built (except for full-on drag racing monsters).

With all due respect, nobody buys a Harley on the merits of its quarter-mile time or its ability to carve corners. If they did, Harley wouldn't be the largest manufacturer of cruisers in the world by market share. Comparisons to bikes like the V-Max, B-King and other power cruisers are futile.  

[atadaskew]

With all due respect, nobody buys a Harley on the merits of its quarter-mile time or its ability to carve corners. If they did, Harley wouldn't be the largest manufacturer of cruisers in the world by market share. Comparisons to bikes like the V-Max, B-King and other power cruisers are futile.  

Cruising along at 60mph on a country back road with my sweetie holding on, just soaking it in, I couldn't care less if some other bike made 100hp more...

[chornbe]

With all due respect, nobody buys a Harley on the merits of its quarter-mile time or its ability to carve corners. If they did, Harley wouldn't be the largest manufacturer of cruisers in the world by market share. Comparisons to bikes like the V-Max, B-King and other power cruisers are futile.  

I'm not disagreeing... I'm simply responding to the notion of going fast for "big" money. I'm saying if you want to go fast, and you're spending ~$18k, a Max is a better choice than a Harley. LOTS of Harley buyers spend $XX on the bike and drop another $10k on them for go-fast parts. Makes zero sense to me *IF* their goal is to make a fire breathing go-fast bike.

The Max (and B-King, etc) do it all right out of the box, better (and ultimately cheaper) than you could ever do on a Harley.

[Geoff]

I'm not disagreeing... I'm simply responding to the notion of going fast for "big" money. I'm saying if you want to go fast, and you're spending ~$18k, a Max is a better choice than a Harley. LOTS of Harley buyers spend $XX on the bike and drop another $10k on them for go-fast parts. Makes zero sense to me *IF* their goal is to make a fire breathing go-fast bike.

The Max (and B-King, etc) do it all right out of the box, better (and ultimately cheaper) than you could ever do on a Harley.

Harley riders aim to be fast among themselves, not other marques no matter how much cheaper or faster they might be.  

[chornbe]

Exclusionist fuggers! BAN 'EM ALL!  

[Geoff]

Exclusionist fuggers! BAN 'EM ALL!  

Yeah, HD riders know their limits, so they keep to themselves to avoid embarassment. Some have moved to the V-Rod. It's no match for the V-Max, but it's faster than a TC96.

Here's the rub...If you see the HD faithful at a drag strip, they'll all cheer for the Vance & Hines V-Rod pro stock bike. On the other hand, they'll largely ignore the bike at retail, claiming it's not a "real" Harley.  

[chornbe]

I own a Harley.
I thank the stars every day I'm not a "Harley Guy". (c) (r) (tm)

[falconati]

Sounds like you're hoping for a Harley shirt under the tree this year, and are in denial.

[MadMax96]

Sounds like you're hoping for a Harley shirt under the tree this year, and are in denial.

Doesn't matter - everyone knows he has a Harley therefore any bike related gifts he gets will most likely have an HD shield on them.  

[chornbe]

I do own a very nice, thick, warm Harley hoodie.  

[Playinthestreet]

Despite owning H-Ds on and off since 1970 I don't own a single piece of Harley branded clothing.  I do wear either a Triumph or Ducati t-shirt when I ride the H-D, however.

[atadaskew]

Despite owning H-Ds on and off since 1970 I don't own a single piece of Harley branded clothing.  I do wear either a Triumph or Ducati t-shirt when I ride the H-D, however.

Hah!  I'm wearing a Ducati Scrambler long sleeve shirt and I rode in on my Harley!  I don't own any Harley clothing (not my bag baby), but love the stuff at the Ducati shop.

[chornbe]

I have a nice black (as noted, very thick, very warm) hooded sweatshirt that I got from the Harley dealer. Very simple lettering on the arms, and a rather sedate, muted silver and maroon "105th Anniversary" badge on the back. Paid about the same as if I'd bought a good quality hoodie at the department store. I'm not talking about a WalMart rag that'll fall apart in 2 washings. I've worn this thing in all sorts of weather and doing all sorts of stuff for 2 years and it's holding up fine. Not sure I get all the universal hatred towards the clothing. I'm fairly certain that the HondaKawasakiYamahaSuzuki folks would love to wear some decent, tastefully branded stuff, rather than the garishly branded riding gear you see. I know I would - I tried to buy some Yammie swag when I had the FJR... it just doesn't exist.

[TedO]

What's The Deal? FWIW, I have some very good friends who love HD, and because they're friends they never need to justify or explain what they ride or wear. I'm consistently the only non-Harley rider on most days, and nobody cares either way. We're too busy enjoying the ride with great friends. They're a good American company with a strong market niche. Enjoy the ride, if you want to analyze why people make the choices they do, sell the bike and see a therapist.

[scotteroni]

For many buying a Harley Davidson is like joining a religion.

They wear special clothes  to distinguish themselves from others.

They often enter a trance-like state when they cruise at 2500 rpm at 55, oblivious to those around them,

The bike is put in an elevated position of an idol which is eagerly and regularly bestowed with bright and shiny gifts to show appreciation for the happiness it brings the owner.

They cover themselves with with tattoos , belt buckles, hats, etc to proclaim that they are a proud to be a faithful disciple.

They seek out friends that share their same belief system and look down at others that don't.

[atadaskew]

For many buying a "Your bike here" is like joining a religion.

blah blah blah.....

They seek out friends that share their same belief system and look down at others that don't.

Fixed!

[chornbe]

For many buying a Harley Davidson is like joining a religion.

They wear special clothes  to distinguish themselves from others.

They often enter a trance-like state when they cruise at 2500 rpm at 55, oblivious to those around them,

The bike is put in an elevated position of an idol which is eagerly and regularly bestowed with bright and shiny gifts to show appreciation for the happiness it brings the owner.

They cover themselves with with tattoos , belt buckles, hats, etc to proclaim that they are a proud to be a faithful disciple.

They seek out friends that share their same belief system and look down at others that don't.

Thank goodness we can count on such well thought out and reasoned posts.

[Playinthestreet]

 The bike is put in an elevated position of an idol which is eagerly and regularly bestowed with bright and shiny gifts to show appreciation for the happiness it brings the owner.  

If you want the truth, we all sit in the garage with a PBR in one hand and Uncle Wiggly in the other, staring at our H-Ds.

[zeakers]

For many buying a Harley Davidson is like joining a religion.

They wear special clothes to distinguish themselves from others.

They often enter a trance-like state when they cruise at 2500 rpm at 55, oblivious to those around them,

The bike is put in an elevated position of an idol which is eagerly and regularly bestowed with bright and shiny gifts to show appreciation for the happiness it brings the owner.

They cover themselves with with tattoos , belt buckles, hats, etc to proclaim that they are a proud to be a faithful disciple.

They seek out friends that share their same belief system and look down at others that don't.

After searching for months for the perfect ride, I chose an 09 Electra glide std. Why? Because it was a comfortable, neutral position that didn't create any aches after 30 mins of riding. I traded two Suzuki's, a bandit 1250 and burgman 650, for the glide because it could keep me entertained plus act as my daily commuter. Is it heavy, yes but so was the scooter at 680 lbs. Have I drank the Harley coolaid, no. I chose the ride the bike for what it offers not the name.

[chornbe]

You've got a lot of nerve being reasonable in this thread, pal!  

[Playinthestreet]

I'll assume you traded the two Zooks for the new E-G, straight up.

[zeakers]

I'll assume you traded the two Zooks for the new E-G, straight up.

I wish it were so...but  I never went in thinking they would.

[Playinthestreet]

I wish it were so...but  I never went in thinking they would.

Oh, I know.  It's just that so many here perceive H-Ds to be of no value that they would expect to get a new E-Glide even for a 10yr old Vespa.

Congrats on your purchase.

[mjrfd99]

I'm great -you suck. Don't you kids get tired of this baby poo? I'm not you -you're not me. Thank f'in god.