Between a Kawa Z750S and a Honda VFR800

[Splash]

Now I've got a situation, deciding between a '06 Z750S and a '02 VFR800. I know from posts here and abroad the VFR will do a good job, but how does the Z750S compare? Would anyone with experience with the Zed recommend it as a sport touring bike? Looking at numbers they're near identical in acceleration but the VFR is way heavier. Comments welcome, but these are the 2 bikes I have available to buy on the cheap.

[spinalator]

The vfr is smooth, stable and is hard to unsettle. It is heavy compared to the new sport bikes, and you lack some adjustability in suspension, but it really is pretty good for most riders from the factory. Agressive riders turf the rear shock and put CBR/RC 51 forks on it and other crazy stuff. I rode a z750 once but had a KZ 750 for years, so I am a little used to the buzzy kawi motors. The problem with the new z is that the buzz was right where I spend a lot of time and I think it would drive me nuts. I did like the bike though, but only spent 15 minutes on it. I think the 1000 has adjustable forks but the 750 does not, I am not sure if that is important to you or not.

[kevin_stevens]

The two aren't in the same market.  The Z750S is a semi-naked bike (though the windscreen works well).  Very buzzy, I felt.  Kind of low-end sport oriented.

The VFR is a highly refined sports tourer that is a bit dated, but has won awards for the better part of a decade.  They may have similar peak power numbers, but you would find the VFR stronger everywhere but at full throttle high in the powerband.

I'm not saying the Z is bad for what it is - many would prefer it for local street/commute/canyon use.  But it's like comparing a BMW to... I don't know, an Eclipse.

KeS

[Thor]

The K750 is a little rough and not very popular, so the aftermarket might be a little sparse.

The VFR is EXTREMELY overpriced for what you get, but there is a great aftermarket and many forums to spank it at.  For about $3,000 you can make the VFR a nice bike, still grossly underpowered for the money, but a very nice bike.

Maintenance on the K750 is cheap; on the VFR expensive.

If I went with the Kawi, I would get the 1000.  The 750 has subpar suspension and the power is a little weak for the price difference between the two.

Personally, I would look elseware.  The Kawi motor is bulletproof, but the rest of the bike is confused.  The VFR is an anachronism that needs to go away or get updated.

To buy a VFR instead of ST1300 is a mistake, and to get a Z750 before a used BMW would be the same.

If you can get a steal on a VFR, go for it, otherwise...

Just one man's biased opinion.  

[smackdoogle]

I have a Z750S and I love it.  It does have a buzzy spot that annoyes some people (not me so much) and the suspensions weaknesses can be felt if pushed hard in the twisties.  I don't have any real complaints of it after 10000 miles and I have no intentions of getting rid of it.  There aren't too many aftermarket items for it but they are out there.  You just have to look for them.  As far as the VFR, wow, what a beutiful bike  I would love to have one but for the money, I think you could do better (suspension isn't as up to date with new SS and maintenance I hear is high)  I've never rode one but wouldn't say no if someone handed me the keys.  These two bikes really aren't in the same league.  If you're commuting and want something that is inexpensive fun and wont leave you stranded go with the Z.  If you want to do some touring, have extra money and love the looks then go for the VFR.  Hope this helped a little.

[cbsnbiker]

I see that this is posted in the Beginner's Garage, not the general section. Does this mean that you're approaching this from a beginning sport-touring point of view (but you're an experienced rider), or a beginning rider POV, or something else?

[Splash]

I see that this is posted in the Beginner's Garage, not the general section. Does this mean that you're approaching this from a beginning sport-touring point of view (but you're an experienced rider), or a beginning rider POV, or something else?

I'm a new rider, less than a year riding. By posting in BG you know you're advising a noob with access to a few bikes, the Zed and VFR were merely nearby and bargain priced. I also want a good bike to go a ways with; I've got an ex500 now, which I can ride for a few hours before it's unbearable. By listing the cheapies first I could eliminate one, or both from consideration.

While I have your attention, how about a '05 Bandit 1200 for touring duties? Same price range as the '02 VFR, same location.

[Rigger]

Splash I like yourself am relatively new to riding.  My current ride is a 22 year old motorcycle whose capablities far out weigh my abilities on 2 wheels.   I was looking at buying a new VFR but after my near deadly potential wreck last year at the Parry Sound SBR, I have decided that I am not quite ready for a bike as powerful and advanced as the VFR.  I know that my maturity on 2 wheels speaks lots for my riding, but its too much bike for right now.  As much as I luv the VFR although never having rode one I think the Kawi might be the better bike for you right now based on your experience that you have shared with us.  I dont mean to sound like a fear monger at all, nor do I mean to insult your ability or maturity on 2 wheels.  Just sharing my concern with you. Just my humble opinion.

 Rigger

[Splash]

Rigger, I appreciate your candor.

Sometimes it's better to learn what makes a bike bad for a purpose than finding what's good. The responses so far are quite informative. Also listening in on other bike-specific forums with a grain of salt I can learn a lot about a bike's foibles. I can fix the 750's suspension problems, they're well known. I did the same thing on my 500 and turned it into a whole new bike. The gen-6 VFR suffers from electrical problems, again well known and dealt with. The Bandit 1200 is in the same class performance-wise but is simpler mechanically. I'm about to let my butt decide. Price isn't an issue with these, all are $5000-ish here.

Shoulda grabbed the Duc ST3 for $9000 when I had the chance.

[Nny]

I have not ridden the VFR or the Bandit but I have ridden a Z750s (Bluepoof's) on a few 100 - 300 mile days in rain / highway / twisties.  I also am a new rider (less than a year riding) and found the Z to be quite a lot of fun.  My previous bike was a BMW F650GS and the suspension is quite a bit stiffer.  On really choppy roads I have to stand a bit on the pegs to be comfortable, but you said you aren't too concerned with suspension issues.  The buzziness people have complained about doesn't bother me much.  Usually if I reposition my feet on the pegs I don't notice it, and really, you'd only have to worry about it on the freeway.  If you cruise at triple digit speeds you'll be in the annoying vibey range, but short of that I doubt you'd notice it much.  There are bags and mounts available as well.  If you can, I'd try to score some seat time on both to see what feels better to you.  Personally, given two bikes that have around the same performance I'd choose the lighter one to make life easier once you slow down.

[Corbeau]

Oviously, according to my signature, I'm biased, but hear me out...

My noob bike was an EX500, for a season and a half -- or 10,000 miles. From the Ninjette,  I moved on to the VFR, an '02 model (i.e. 6th gen -- and BTW, it was the 5th generation that was plagued by electrical issues, mostly the R/R). I'm a very happy camper on my viffer (700-mile days, all on eastern backroads or 900-mile of western interstates are common, and on the stock seat), I love the protection from the elements, the smooth power curve.

Things I like less: from the carburated EX to the EFI VFR, your right wrist will have to learn to be real smooth, especially at low revs. Valve adjustments are very expensive. No storage space whatsoever under the seat. The VTEC kick can take you by surprise in mid-curve if you're not expecting it. But if you are, and you time it just right in your exit,  

[garry]

Shop for a lightly used Sprint ST (2002 - 2004 model years). Bet you can find a nice one for $5K - $6K with luggage and perhaps a few other farkles.

[chesthing]

The K750 is a little rough and not very popular, so the aftermarket might be a little sparse.

The VFR is EXTREMELY overpriced for what you get, but there is a great aftermarket and many forums to spank it at.  For about $3,000 you can make the VFR a nice bike, still grossly underpowered for the money, but a very nice bike.

Maintenance on the K750 is cheap; on the VFR expensive.

If I went with the Kawi, I would get the 1000.  The 750 has subpar suspension and the power is a little weak for the price difference between the two.

Personally, I would look elseware.  The Kawi motor is bulletproof, but the rest of the bike is confused.  The VFR is an anachronism that needs to go away or get updated.

To buy a VFR instead of ST1300 is a mistake, and to get a Z750 before a used BMW would be the same.

If you can get a steal on a VFR, go for it, otherwise...

Just one man's biased opinion.  

When looking for a used $5,000 or less sport tourer I damn near overlooked my #1 priority of fuel injection (which made my list short indeed) for your bike - a ZX-9R is a great bang for buck used bike.  I disagree go the ST1300 over the VFR anyday though - that thing's as heavy as my Valkyrie! 2 totally different rides.

[Grainbelt]

BIKE Magazine did a comparison of the FZ6 and the Z750S on a multi-day tour thru the alps, just threw some soft luggage on them and went. Both testers noted being surprised at their capability for solo touring. Apparently the seat on the Z750 is pretty bad, but other than that they loved it. Stock seats generally are crappy, and replacements are readily available.

[LENSMAN]

A pre VTEC VFR would be my choice. They're a great bike.

[Just_Jeff]

Hey Splash,

Don't know if you're still looking for responses to the original question, but here goes:

I currently own and ride both motorcycles, and if it came down to one or the other for me, it'd be the VFR. I like the z750s well enough, but I can tell you this from my experience: I've had to spend, spend, and spend again to get the z750s to a level of comfort for me that made me even want to get on the bike. Had I been able to spend some time on it BEFORE purchasing, I probably would have never bought it.

In contrast, my VFR (both bikes are 06's) is bone-stock, and probably the best ride I've ever had. I've owned older VFRs and they were great too (real similar), but overall my new one fits me well (I'm 6'1", 200 lbs, pretty decent health). I commute ~45 miles to work and never get off the VFR feeling beat up, which I can't say for the z750s...the Z is not bad, and mine is pretty comfortable, but I've also had to add an aftermarket seat, Laminar Lip, and risers. I haven't done anything to the VFR, but I also paid almost twice as much.

Hope this was somewhat helpful...

Jeff

[CBRXXBLACKBIRD]

Out of the two I would pick the VFR

[Splash]

I'm going to bring discussion on the VFR on their board (VFRD).

[Roseknight]

having riden both a bandit 1200 and a few differnt vfr's... both are excellent bikes and both will happily eat lots of miles... I think your idea of letting your butt decide is probably a wise idea.. that and your heart.. see which one just sings to you when you sit in the saddle in the riding position... sit there for 15 minutes.. does she still sing?

[ctfz1]

Never warmed to the VFR, too go far go fast.

[Zerosum]

I test rode a Z750 once.  I loved the way it looked, loved the IDEA of it, so I went to go look at a used one for sale near me.  Had the cash in my pocket and everything.  I took it for a test ride and was utterly turned off.  It has a good riding position, good weight, and the motor produces plenty of power, but the entire bike buzzes.  Especially in the footpegs.  I'm talking a grating, high-frequency buzz that makes your bones hurt.  That and the front fairing seemed buzz along with the rest of the bike.  Little things like the exposed wires on the throttle bodies, the quality of the plastic, etc just made the whole bike feel cheap.

So , fast foward 1.5 years and I'm now riding a VFR750.  Very smooth, very stable, kinda heavy but you get used to it. The powerband on the V4 is a mile wide, too.  Trust me, the VFR is a completely superior bike.  No comparison, IMO.  You can also get 4th gen VFRs like mine for aound $3K nowadays.  Not a bad option if you're on a budget.

[county]

The VFR is an excellent motorcycle with gear driven cams, if you like overweight pigs with valves that don't always open and close.   The VFR is the bike for people who like technology...the Kawasaki is for people who like to ride.

[ctfz1]

Supposedly, like the Z1000, afttermarket exhaust and PClll smooth Z750, check a website. A used 06 FZ1 with Ivans FCE and 16 tooth cs would be a better choice for smooth and versitile.

[dgunther]

The VFR is an excellent motorcycle with gear driven cams, if you like overweight pigs with valves that don't always open and close.   The VFR is the bike for people who like technology...the Kawasaki is for people who like to ride.

2001 was the last year for gear driven cams on the VFR.  2002 introduced the VTEC and brought back chain driven cams  

[Cam Lay]

My 2000 VFR doesn't feel overweight to me, but then again, my other ride is a Guzzi California...

Splash has probably made a decision and bought something by now, but I'd opine that the 5th-generation VFR is a very good choice for a "next" bike.  It's powerful but not rip-your-arms-off, very stable and smooth (even thoguh it requires a smooth hand on the throttle at low speeds), comfortable, and fairly cheap.  There seem to be a fair number of them out there with very little mileage on them.  I got mine used with 5K on it, so haven't faced the maintenance-cost issue yet.  I wanted to avoid vtec so got the 5th generation.  Doesn't come with bags, thoguh, which is a bummer.

That said, I like the Guzzi, too.  It's heavy, not terribly powerful, but cheap to operate and easy to maintain.  I'm heading out to Missouri next week and taking the Guzzi.  (It's a Guzzi gathering - could hardly show up on the VFR... )

YMMMV, of course, and usually does.

C

[Scorpio65]

Can't go wrong with the VFR...  

[satz]

I am going to bashed alot but from a purely beginner point of you get the kawasaki,When i started touring seldom after long days i had a tendency to get into bad parking situation or making turns in gravel.I am attest that a naked bike with a engine cage will fair better in a drop.After  a while i would let the bike go and fight or get hurt as i knew it is not even going to get scratched.

drop the fairing and you are in for a ride as far as cost goes.Now i do not drop bikes as with experience i have learned to choose better spots but still prefer naked bikes.

satz

[1moreroad]

If the EX500 is unbearable after a few hours, I'd hesitate to recommend either bike.  Both will have similar seating positions although I know the VFR wind management is light years ahead of the EX and I would expect this to be true of the Z.  If wind is unbearable I would expect the VFR to be a lot more comfortable.  I know the VFR has little buffeting and clean air.  The Z looks like the FZ1, which for me, was very finicky in terms of buffeting.

Depends on what is unbearable about the EX.