DRZ400S vs XR650L

[garry]

As much as I love the new KTM 525 EXC, I'd have to sell my sportbike to afford it. So I started pondering the much less expensive Japanese dual-sport offerings. I figure the money difference between my used sportbike and a new KTM could pay for a Jap dual-sport. And three bikes is better than two, right?

I shortened the list by considering the most dirty-worthy of the street legal options and came up with: DRZ400S and the XR650L. I know both are Big Fat Pigs by dirt bike standards and way down on HP compared to the KTM. I used to own a 2001 DRZ400S and sold it in a fit of madness and the new owner isn't interested in selling it back to me. Sigh... It had all the usual mods and was a fine bike. DUH!

Both bikes can be purchased brand new for $5000 + TTL. Lightly used examples can probably be had for $4000 with some shopping.

Both bikes require(?) about $1000 in farkles to get them good to go (exhaust, jetting, large gas tank, engine guards, etc)

So which one would you pick for riding 50 to 100 paved miles to a trailhead, then playing on dirt roads and single track, then riding 50 to 100 miles of paved roads back home? And why? The most obvious difference aside from engine size (not sure it translates into much different HP though) is that the Honda is heavier and air-cooled and the Suzuki is water-cooled.

And before people bitch, the reason the KLR and DR aren't on the short list is that they are universally considered less dirt worthy than the XR, but better on the street. I have a Wee Strom to handle 90% paved plus 10% dirt roads. I'm looking for something to beat up in the woods, but I need to ride it to the boonies (no truck or trailer).

No Husky dealers in the area or the TE610 would be on the short list, although it comes at a premium compared to the Suzuki and Honda.

My plan (day dreaming) is to buy a lightly used one for $4K, then put $1000 in upgrades and have a ready to rock dual sport for a total of $5000.

[marc11]

For such little street use, why are you not looking at the KLX250s?  Way more dirt worthy than either of those bikes, few farkles if any required, will kick butt in the dirt and haul you 100 miles in relative comfort, all for $4699....

[SLK50]

What marc11 said. KLX250S would require fewer mods to excel in the dirt and it's already better on the road than the DR or XL: Dirt worthy suspension, 6-speed tranny, relatively comfortable seat, reasonable purchase price. Wait till JohnnyM gets here.
Sometimes hard to find on ebay, search for "klx". Usually a few good deals on craigslist.

[photomd]

I would consider where you wanna ride and your size. The guys that have tried XR600/650's here are either very big (I'm not talking "heavy", more like six feet plus and 225lbs) or very talented. The XR is basically a big dessert bike. They can be a handful on single track, woods riding. DRZ's are great bikes, but for what you wanna do, would an XR400 fit the bill as well? They can be had for $2000 on up depending on year. Can you license one in your area with a Baja Kit?

[MuddDawg]

I vote DRZ 400.  But I am slightly biased as I have one, I rode a Buddy's 650L once.  

250 = tight woods and fire roads
400 = tight woods and fire roads and street and freeway up to 70 mph comfortably(65 with 14/47 E/K gearing)
         (I hear the S model tops out around 98 mph in stock trim)
650 = freeway and fire roads

obviously with talent and ability anything can be ridden if you want to bad enough.  

[garry]

For such little street use, why are you not looking at the KLX250s?  Way more dirt worthy than either of those bikes, few farkles if any required, will kick butt in the dirt and haul you 100 miles in relative comfort, all for $4699....

Let's just say that I thought my DRZ with mods had barely enough power for street use and doubt that a 17 HP KLX250 would cut it for me. Not that it can't go 65 MPH, but I want passing power to warp past traffic too. I'd be game to consider a test ride though. I guess the problem is that said bike will spend 2/3 of its life on streets (mostly faster highway, not interstate) getting to/from the boonies and the remaining 1/3 split between fire roads and trails. So I figured bigger (400, 650) was a better match due to the amount of street time at 65+ MPH. The DRZ I had wasn't happy much above 70 indicated, but that's more an issue of the 5-speed tranny than anything.

[marc11]

You cannot just spec sheet these bikes.  Look at the weights, the KLX is much lighter.  BTW, neither bike will "warp" past traffic, but geared correctly the KLX (and I am sure the DRZ) will pass most cars.

The KLX will run close to 90 MPH stock, a few cheap/free mods will get you there pretty quick.  I do not think the XR will be any more powerful than the KLX on the street due to its weight.

You're right though, you need to test ride them, dual sports are not really represented on spec sheets, how they run in the dirt and on the street is something you need to try out yourself.

[garry]

You're right though, you need to test ride them, dual sports are not really represented on spec sheets, how they run in the dirt and on the street is something you need to try out yourself.

Remember I owned a DRZ and liked it, but felt it needed a sixth gear and another 10 HP and to lose 50 pounds. Which is why the pricey KTM 525 is so attractive (aside from the price).

BTW, it's supposedly very hard to get a plate on a dual-sport that isn't DOT-certified from the factory in PA.

[marc11]

See, that is what makes the KLX so attractive.  It is street legal, has great suspension, is 30 some pounds lighter than the DRZ-s, has a 6 speed tranny and if the power after a pipe and jet kit isn't enough, you can bump the HP big time with a big bore kit to 331 cc with Kawi factory parts which DOES NOT void the warranty.

But only you know what you need in a bike.  If you want to throw my KLX around let me know.

[JohnWayne]

So, 100 to 200 miles of paved roads in a day, plus some PA trails.

My dualsport is a titled XR400, but I've only got 30 miles of Forestry roads to get to my favorite rocks.  It's perfect for my use, but I would not want to ride it for 200 road miles in a day.

So, the DRZ, the big XR, and I think the big DR should still be in the running, because of the street miles.  In that order, from nasty to not-so-nasty trails.

[Johnny Monsoon]

For such little street use, why are you not looking at the KLX250s?  Way more dirt worthy than either of those bikes, few farkles if any required, will kick butt in the dirt and haul you 100 miles in relative comfort, all for $4699....

Bingo.  I've done well over 100mile days in the saddle; and it is better than a DRz on road.  In the dirt, the KLX250S blows the crap out of the DRz400.  No two ways about it.

For your uses, that's the clear choice.

[mtrider16]

My friends DRZ keeps up with me on the dirt roads, and then he goes and rides the DRZ with a friend with a CRF450X in the OHV area.  PA may have tighter trails that give the nod to the KLX, but our OHV area has some pretty technical trails also.

Does buying a plated XR650R or XR400R from out of state work in PA?

David

[garry]

Does buying a plated XR650R or XR400R from out of state work in PA?

Not sure. I'm pretty sure PA makes it hard to plate a bike that has "Not for highway use" or somesuch on the title or certificate of origin. I'll ask the next time I'm in the notary.

[Albie]

If you buy an out of state bike that has been plated it will no longer have an off road use title.

I think someone touched on the one pitfall of the BRP. If you're the least bit inseam challanged you're not gonna like it.

The ideal bike would be a plated DRZ E. More HP & less weight. If you want a street legal out of the box bike then I would go with the KLX 250 as some of the others have mentioned. On dirt, weight is everything and the lighter you go the more you'll appreciate it.

[MOVFR]

Pardon me if I've missed this part but: in your first post you refer to the XR650L and later on others refer to both the 650L and the 650R. There is a big difference. The L is an 80's bike, air cooled, fairly heavy and with medium duty suspension. The R is liquid cooled, quite a few pounds lighter with better suspension and a bigger price tag. The L is street legal out of the box, the R can be made street legal with a dual sport kit. Both are pretty much bullet proof.

Again, I'm not trying to be a smart here. I was just wondering.

[bluesurf]

DR-Z.  Nice thing about the S model is that it has a subframe (ie - overnight+ trips); the E doesn't.  The S needs a few mods to take advantage of the engine, mainly carb re-jetting and a hole in the airbox, but as you know there is always more available (full exhaust, FCR carb, E/Hotcam in & out cams, 435/450/470 bore-outs, etc.)  Gold valves/new springs up front help as well, and I recommend those.  The XR's are fun in the desert/bigger stuff, but are a bit of a pita going anything more than wide singletrack, although one can take a VStrom DL1K through Reiter (local trails area) if the motivation is there  For a 300-pound pig-dog d/s bike, the DR-Z can easily handle some pretty technical terrain, and then go 200+ miles/day when needed.  There are usually a few kitted used DR-Z's around for the $3500-4000 range, and considering what I've put into mine, that's a great deal for this bike.

Mine will be back up and running in a week, and I can't friggin wait.  fwiw then the chain broke at speed and gashed a hole in the oil gallery.  While the case is being welded, I've taken pretty much every single part off the bike, applied a simple green-anointed toothbrush to it, and either put back on the bike, or am waiting for the engine to be put back in first.

[MuddDawg]

Sorry to hear that about your DRZ Bluesurf  

[XLR8]

FWIW, my recent 06 TE 610 was like $6100 something.

The DR-Z was next on the list and the dealer here quoted me $5300 for new one.

Also don't know if this guy still has his LC 4 for sale:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188860

[bluesurf]

Sorry to hear that about your DRZ Bluesurf  

Thanks, and no worries...I can pull in the clutch *really* quickly.  That bike gave me ~13K great miles in 14 months, and will surely give a lot more in the future.  It's actually been a lot of fun to go mostly through it, and just means that I can ride it that much more    

[garry]

FWIW, my recent 06 TE 610 was like $6100 something.

The TE-610 is a contender, but we only have one small Husky shop in the whole region and they might be on questionable footing. Wonder if they have any leftovers they'd deal on???? Did IMS or Clarke come up with a big tank for the TE series yet (too lazy to search)? It'd be nice to have at least 150 mile range. The 4 gal Clarke I had on my DRZ was good for over 200 street miles.

A modded DRZ (airbox, FCR39, full Yosh exhaust, big tank, engine guards, etc) is the leading contender right now mostly because it's a little lighter than the XR-L, I have a Suzuki shop a couple miles away and I'm familiar with the bike and the mods. Might be able to pull that off for about $5000 (lightly used DRZ plus whatever extra mods it needs).

[XLR8]

The TE-610 is a contender, but we only have one small Husky shop in the whole region and they might be on questionable footing. Wonder if they have any leftovers they'd deal on???? Did IMS or Clarke come up with a big tank for the TE series yet (too lazy to search)? It'd be nice to have at least 150 mile range. The 4 gal Clarke I had on my DRZ was good for over 200 street miles.

A modded DRZ (airbox, FCR39, full Yosh exhaust, big tank, engine guards, etc) is the leading contender right now mostly because it's a little lighter than the XR-L, I have a Suzuki shop a couple miles away and I'm familiar with the bike and the mods. Might be able to pull that off for about $5000 (lightly used DRZ plus whatever extra mods it needs).

I read above that you were limited by dealer availability I just thought I'd mention it. I emailed IMS about the tanks and here's the reply!


    We're actually working on that tank as we speak. They finished the mold a little while ago, but did not get as much capacity out of it as they would have liked, so they're working on that at this time. Hopefully we'll have something out for you guys soon.
 
Thank you!
IMS Products"

The DRZ route sounds great too.

[Paul Barnard]

I have owned 2 XRL's and 1 DRZS.  I enjoyed both bikes.  The XRL was a touch more relaxed and planted on the open road.  Beyond that, the DRZS was hands down a better DS for your intended purpose.  Range on my stock DRZ was about 120 before reserve (I got 65 mpg's a couple of times) and about 90 on the XRL.  Bear in mind, I am not an aggressive rider.  The big XRL's front end washed easily (with MT21's) in thick stuff.  The DRZ was so much more forgiving of my frequent errors.  I think you are headed in the right direction in considering another DRZ.  I wish both of them had seats made for sitting on rather than standing over.  I don't see how a larger fuel tank on either could be a handicap either.  Have fun looking.

[garry]

Just missed a deal on a 2003 DRZ-S in Rochester. Sold for $2750 with an exhaust, big tank and few other mods. Only 2600 miles. Oh well... There's no shortage of them out there.

[cal_tony]

I wanted the KTM 525. But, after much thought and a few visits to the dealer (the same dealer that sold me my DRZ400), I decided to do the few mods needed to make the DRZ run better. Actually, I wanted a 525  motard. I think Ktm, in its push to make the 525 plateable, did not elect to include  a motard version because they don't really want these models on the road any longer than they have to be. The KTM spec sheet says it all. "for legal trail to road transfers." On other sites, KTM owners say that in no time at all you can get used to the chronic vibration of the engine. For me it came down to I didn't think I wanted to ride 50-100 pavement miles with something with that much vibration. Excessive vibration and reliability just don't go hand in hand.

Neither the DRZ or the 650L vibrates much. Thats one reason they last so long.

Now, my bike is a 400 Sm not an S and I only spend about 50% of the time in the dirt, the carb and exhaust stuff made the bike really enjoyable. Not 210 lb. motocross enjoyable, but the mods did make it much easier to ride. Finally, to make it more dirt worthy, I purchased a 21" wheel from Ebay. It changes out with the stock 17 in about 15 min.

My neighbor has a 650L we ride together all the time and his Honda is more impressive than I thought it would be. On twisty pavement with my better suspension, brakes, and tires, I clean his clock. On dirt,with my 21" on, except for soft sand, it's an even match.

But, the 650L was impressive enough, that right now I'm looking for a used, plated 650R to add to my collection of bikes. Not as easy to find as an L, but they do have it all.

Tony

[garry]

I forgot this thread was here (and I started it) but since my search has come to an end, I'll post the proof here from last week's purchase:

[Mr Sunshine]

Oh....that Kawi 250 looks interesting.

[Nimh]

I forgot this thread was here (and I started it) but since my search has come to an end, I'll post the proof here from last week's purchase:

Well Garry, between you and Monsoon's threads, I couldn't hold off the dual sport itch any longer.  I picked up a leftover 06 DRZ last weekend and just got back from a little Friday night ride.  Blasting down a gravel road tonight felt like I was 14 all over again.  



...and now speedy has an evil little brother.

[XLR8]

Those bikes are cool guys. Congrats!  

[garry]

Well Garry, between you and Monsoon's threads, I couldn't hold off the dual sport itch any longer.  I picked up a leftover 06 DRZ last weekend and just got back from a little Friday night ride.  Blasting down a gravel road tonight felt like I was 14 all over again.  

Head over to the DRZ400S forum at ThumperTalk.com (aka TT) for the best info on the web about the DRZ. Can't be beat. TT rocks.

The usual mods are:

- remove airbox snorkel and cut a 3"x3" hole in the top
- buy a DynoJet or James Dean jet kit (JD is the preferred choice of Eddie/burned, the jetting guru there)
- get a Keintech extended fuel screw to make adjusting the air/fuel mixture at idle easy ($15)
- replace the crap float bowl bolts with allen heads ($4).
- put a full Yosh exhaust on the bike

That's about $500 total. Want more performance? Replace the stock carb with an FCR39 ($550).

Want 200 mile range? Buy a Clarke 3.9 gallon tank. Saves weight too ($171 at TT).

Want a rear rack? ProMoto Billet makes a nice one. About $160 as I recall.

The stock engine covers are fragile. Even a simple drop that pushes shift/brake levers into the engine can break them. Buy a set of ThumperTalk (TT) engine protectors for $40. They attach with RTV from the auto parts store.

That's the short list. A more protective skid plate is needed for real off-road. Radiator guards might be wise. Bark busters to save your hands/levers. The stock tires work well on roads and OK on hardpack dirt, but are evil elsewhere off-roads (that's why they are called DeathWings). Get DOT knobbies if you plan on real trail riding versus dirt/gravel roads. Dunlop D606 seem to be popular and I will be ordering a set today.

[Nimh]

Yeah Garry, I have a feeling this thing will be fun to mod.  Thanks for all of the info.

With any luck, the goodies I ordered from the TT store on Monday will be here today... mostly to protect the bike if/when I drop it off road.
Engine case covers
Radiator guards
Skid plate
Bark busters

I'm also considering a Corbin seat, and the Clark tank and the rear rack will come, just not quite yet.  In the past I've ran the Dunlop's and the Maxxis M6006's, and I'm still not sure which way to go.  

I hadn't yet read about the float bowl bolts.  Thanks for the heads up.  I see many guys like the Yosh- is that the best pipe for the DRZ?

...and you're absolutely correct.  TT has been GREAT.  The 3x3 mod, a jet kit and a new exhaust will likely happen this summer too.