Lets smoke this over..

[BACKMARKER]

I think that H-D closing down Buell is just a marketing ploy to dump all the old buell stock with out losing face by implementing huge rebates to move them as other bike manufactures (Honda) have done.  When you have to put out big rebates every other year just to sell your bikes it looks very bad to your customer base.  H-D by closing Buell is able to sell the old stock this way and nobody thinks anything about it.  I give it two years and H-D will restart Buell with a clean slate and just look at the FREE press they will get....

[chornbe]

No.

[squeezer]

Uh-uh. The costs of restarting could never be offset by even the most optimistic sales forecast.

[falconati]

 

[Brad1445]

I think that H-D closing down Buell is just a marketing ploy to dump all the old buell stock with out losing face by implementing huge rebates to move them as other bike manufactures (Honda) have done.  When you have to put out big rebates every other year just to sell your bikes it looks very bad to your customer base.  H-D by closing Buell is able to sell the old stock this way and nobody thinks anything about it.  I give it two years and H-D will restart Buell with a clean slate and just look at the FREE press they will get....

My belive is close.

I think the Buell name has too much mud on it.

Harley needs to grow a full line of bikes like BMW and Triumph have.  I think thats where we will see the bikes reappear, hopefully with a closer eye to style and quality.


The name Buell now has to much luggage and bad press to fight a relaunch. Harley sport and dual sport bikes would be easier to train sales force and service techs on also.

[scottzilla]

Disagree.  The Buell name is viable right now.  Bottom line is Buell started with zero customers and earned 3% of HD's sales.
Buell had done as good a job attracting new buyers as it could.  Think about it, the Japanese offerings are basically interchangable (Similar prices, similiar styles, similar "Ride") and really, the only mfg's to convert people over to their brand are Triumph and Buell (Lesser extent BMW).  Many people dug the XB line and the Uly actually got some new customers for them.
The name is viable, but will become less so over time.

[chornbe]

I agree the name could be just fine as a brand.  

I believe that under no circumstance will Harley reignite that particular flame.  

[scottzilla]

I agree the name could be just fine as a brand.  

I believe that under no circumstance will Harley reignite that particular flame.  

I agree and agree with your agreement.

[bomber]

Buell would succeed as a brand.

HD will not bring it back.

HD has never been a full line manufacturer -- there's no reason to expect them to change than now. Especially now. They narrowed their focus so they could spend all the money and energy on what they do best -- diluting that effort, these days, would be stupid.

HDI is not stupid.

[falconati]

^^^ I agree.  As much as I would love to see them produce a full line of motorcycles, if their executives are intelligent, they won't.  Harley needs to stick to what they do best: make premium cruisers, accessories, and clothing.  They have a nice following and margin, so I have no idea why anybody would want to 'rattle that cage' (one of my favorite phrases I picked up at IBM).

[chornbe]

^^^ I agree.  As much as I would love to see them produce a full line of motorcycles, if their executives are intelligent, they won't.  Harley needs to stick to what they do best: make premium cruisers, accessories, and clothing.  They have a nice following and margin, so I have no idea why anybody would want to 'rattle that cage' (one of my favorite phrases I picked up at IBM).

... or rag on Harley for doing it better than anyone else. "it" being all of it as a marketing entity. Honda et al sells more bikes, but they only WISH they had the market chops Harley has.

Hey, I'd have bought Honda shirts hats and jackets when I was a Honda devotee... ya know... if they had anything.

At all.

[Brad1445]

Disagree.  The Buell name is viable right now.  Bottom line is Buell started with zero customers and earned 3% of HD's sales.
Buell had done as good a job attracting new buyers as it could.  Think about it, the Japanese offerings are basically interchangable (Similar prices, similiar styles, similar "Ride") and really, the only mfg's to convert people over to their brand are Triumph and Buell (Lesser extent BMW).  Many people dug the XB line and the Uly actually got some new customers for them.
The name is viable, but will become less so over time.

Notice you only mention XB bikes as the achievement.  You seem not to mention the last three years of bad press of the 1125 series.  

Think of it this way.  You take your wife to this great restaurant
- the atmosphere is perfect
- the food is awesome
- the service impeccable
- everything is perfect but as the waitress walks away after giving you change from the bill bill the last thing she does is involuntary fart at your table.

I guarantee you the the thing you will remember most of that dinner is the fart.

[scottzilla]

Notice you only mention XB bikes as the achievement.  You seem not to mention the last three years of bad press of the 1125 series.  

Think of it this way.  You take your wife to this great restaurant
- the atmosphere is perfect
- the food is awesome
- the service impeccable
- everything is perfect but as the waitress walks away after giving you change from the bill bill the last thing she does is involuntary fart at your table.

I guarantee you the the thing you will remember most of that dinner is the fart.

Contrary to your opinion, the 1125 line did not cause the demise of Buell.
Basic math proves i'm correct.

[Brad1445]

So selling bikes at $5,000 is your business model?

[scottzilla]

So selling bikes at $5,000 is your business model?

My tolerence for you is getting thin.
 

[falconati]

If you're making them for about that much cost, why not?  You could be a volume manufacturer.

[Brad1445]

My tolerence for you is getting thin.
 

and I care........ why?



I think I have paid enough dollars into the Buell machine to speak about them openly and honestly.

[macdiver]

Warning, off topic rant.

I think I have paid enough dollars into the Buell machine to speak about them openly and honestly.

I think everyone gets that you did not like the 1125.  You are right that most of the early press reviews complained about the fueling issues.  These were eventually fixed.  Yes it did take a several attempts to get the efi program right but they did fix it.  There have been other issues but no more than any other engine that started from a clean sheet of paper.  The reviews just before Buel closed were all positive.

In other posts you have listed the Book of Buell as a marketing mistake esp. cubing the blast.  Go back and re-read it from the perspective that Mr. Buell would have known that Buell was on the chopping block as the ads were developed and to me and others it becomes a clear "fuck you" to harley.  Harley still has the blast and will continue the blast so they can do rider edge so cube it and say it was never a bike the Buell wanted.  Also, point out that these bikes were meant to be ridden aggressively not shown off at bars by pirates.  Read between the l ines.  The "book of Buell" was a response to Buell being closed down not one of the mistakes that led to it being closed.

HD is in serious financial trouble due to bad loans.  The management had to shown they were taking action by cutting Buell to "turn around the business" by "focusing on the core business".  This is an oft repeated phrase when companies cut divisions to show action to get more credit.    

I agree that the pods are ugly but the 1125's were selling as well as any other Buell during a time that motorcycles are not selling.  

Let go of your hatred for Buell, you will feel better.

[chornbe]

I think everyone gets that you did not like the 1125.  You are right that most of the early press reviews complained about the fueling issues.  These were eventually fixed.  Yes it did take a several attempts to get the efi program right but they did fix it.  There have been other issues but no more than any other engine that started from a clean sheet of paper.  The reviews just before Buel closed were all positive.

Right. Typical Rev-1 stuff. Some MFGs *still* have those issues after years of production and refinement. If every manufacturer got the fueling right, there wouldn't even BE a PowerCommander or FuelPak. BMWs had surging issues for years. FJRs had a couple of years with surging and flat spots. Honda's FI while smooth, has ZERO off-idle transition even now. It's 0, then 10%-100%.

[st ryder]

I think Buell is a very marketable brand. I think they have definitely carved out a well ensconced "niche" in the psyche of motorcyclists over the past 15-20 years. No reason to think Buell as a brand will fade away and no reason to think Buell the "industry" will die anytime soon. I see them as legendary bikes given time, like some Brit, American, Italian steel is now. Like bevel drive Ducatis, or air head BMW's that have a rabid following even though their manufactures are still more than viable today. Look at motorcycles like Norton and BSA, and Vincent and Indian and Laverda and Gilera and etc etc etc, all have a world wide "industry" to support their respective aficionados. No reason to think the Buell brand will not enjoy the same "success."