Erik Buell Interview Exclusive [motorcycle-usa.com]

[steve.m]

Harley had no choice!  

The market had spoken

It was humane to put Buell out of its misery.

The beast had to die!

 

dude you've got more angst than a pregnant emo teen

[Squidbuzz]

Do you get the feeling from this interview that Erik is saying that HD isn't doing well because they aren't customer focused?  hhm...

[dorklord]

Do you get the feeling from this interview that Erik is saying that HD isn't doing well because they aren't customer focused?  hhm...

I get the feeling that he thinks "We firmly belive that $1 invested in going to market with the Harley-Davidson brand delivers much more impact than the same dollar invested elsewhere when it comes to reaching new rider demographics." is downright...stupid. Harley is good at delivering a bike that their customer base wants, but reaching new rider demographics is definitely NOT their strong suit.

[atadaskew]

I'm not sure how I feel about Erik Buell.

Him claiming he wanted the LC motor all along, after spouting for years how perfect the AC motor was, kinda is insulting to those who own AC Buells.  Not as insulting as crushing a Blast and making an ad about it but still.

It's because, quite frankly, Buell was lying about the development of his bikes.  He DID repeatedly claim how great the AC motor was for the application, but now that his company is gone, he wanted LC all along?

There's a certain amount of tact that is lacking here.  I used to think of him as a straight shooter, but now it seems that that may not have been the case all along.  He just kept his trap shut and played along with the Harley management.  I wonder how this would be different if we ever hear their take on this story?

[Brad1445]

Well articulated atadaskew.

Many odd contradictions have been shown in the last 24 months from the factory at Badweb, but now more than ever.

some weird odd stuff.  One week, we wanted this, next week we never wanted that.  

Even today a odd one,  anonymous posted at badweb that this is a dangerous design and "DO NOT RIDE".


http://magpulronin.com/

Because  of the radiators weight in front of the forks was dangerous?  What does the fairing weigh, and how far from the forks?

what does this mug weigh?



Its as wide as a Goldwing up front!

[Bueller]

I think it is pretty clear that he wanted a LC motor.  He was aiming for a motor that made 80 ft/lbs of torque at 3,000 RPM and revved to 10,000.  He's got close.

He told us the story of working with Porsche on the V-rod motor when we met with him last year.  He said it was originally developed as a motor for a Buell.  That was back when no-one thought that there was was any clouds on the Buell horizon.

He is a racer.  He is a race engineer.  Own the corners is one thing, but own the track is what everyone in his position with his drive to succeed wants.  Why would he put himself in an aircooled box.  These is no reason why Buell wasn't set to run with the aircolled line - the significant evolutions in the 2010 model show that, but a Buell would stay away from water about as mutch as Ducati would.

[Kootenanny]

...Why would he put himself in an aircooled box.

Well, Buell is on record (I have a CD with the film) extolling the virtues of the A/C engine, and I believe he did state at one point that there would never be a L/C engine in a Buell.  That may have been a bit of sour grapes at the time.  But on the other hand, the points he makes about the A/C engines are valid, and I for one am quite happy with the "Thunderstorm" engine in my Buell.

[steve.m]

Well, Buell is on record (I have a CD with the film) extolling the virtues of the A/C engine, and I believe he did state at one point that there would never be a L/C engine in a Buell.  That may have been a bit of sour grapes at the time.  But on the other hand, the points he makes about the A/C engines are valid, and I for one am quite happy with the "Thunderstorm" engine in my Buell.

youtube?

and I agree, I'm VERY happy with my engine/bike/experience.  I only wish I could fit on a firebolt, there'd be one in the garage too!

[Brad1445]

Well, Buell is on record (I have a CD with the film) extolling the virtues of the A/C engine, and I believe he did state at one point that there would never be a L/C engine in a Buell.  That may have been a bit of sour grapes at the time.  But on the other hand, the points he makes about the A/C engines are valid, and I for one am quite happy with the "Thunderstorm" engine in my Buell.

84 torque right off the line,

That engine is a rush in the twisty's

Dream Ride tail of the dragon, closed from public traffic, on a  Buell Firebolt.  THat torque with no drive train lash is a sensation that cannot be described.  It must be felt.

[oldenslow]

That's the problem I had with E.B., I too remember when he was extolling the virtues of the a.c. engine, which is fine because I agree with some of it.  But it seemed to me he was either being egotistical or just  a good corporate boy.  Don't want to piss off the meal ticket.  

[Kootenanny]

That's the problem I had with E.B., I too remember when he was extolling the virtues of the a.c. engine, which is fine because I agree with some of it.  But it seemed to me he was either being egotistical or just  a good corporate boy.  Don't want to piss off the meal ticket.  

I think it has a lot to do with Buell's personality.  He's well known to be very enthusiastic about his projects, almost obsessive.  So, when he's in a position where the only engine really available to him is H-D's A/C lump, rather than cry about not having a L/C engine, he puts his energy into making it the best A/C engine he can make.  He looks at the engine's strengths, and builds on them.  Sure, in the back of his mind, he's thinking ahead to the possibility of another engine, but he lives in the present, and if that present only includes an A/C engine, that's what he enthuses about.

[phoenix]

absolutely. He had to promote the products they had available in order to sell bikes and stay in business. Who would buy a bike from a manufacturer if the chief engineer said he didn't care for it one bit and wanted something entirely different?

[macdiver]

It took me a while to find this interview May 2000.   Halfway down, Erik Buell talks about air cooled vs. liquid cooled engines.  While he definitly pushes the air cooled engine he does not rule out using a liquid cooled engine in the future. Looks to me like he was really just defending using the engine technology that he had.   Not sure if anyone  can point to other interviews where Erik Buell discusses air cooling versus liquid cooling.  

Hopefully the link will work.

http://www.gazette9.com/buells.html/talking.htm

[Baz]

absolutely. He had to promote the products they had available in order to sell bikes and stay in business. Who would buy a bike from a manufacturer if the chief engineer said he didn't care for it one bit and wanted something entirely different?

 

It would have been corporate suicide for Eric to do otherwise.

[steve.m]

just read through there, he makes a lot of good points, especially this one

"we were gonna build a bike that people were gonna use for transportation, for jumping around the city. We expect a lot of short trips, and in fact most motorcycle use is for a lot of short trips. Air-cooled engines heat up almost instantly"

Buell built a great road going motorcycle, not a track bike.  they succeeded admirably in that with the XB line.

Still wish i could fit on a firebolt.  Maybe I can find a wrecked Uly and a wrecked firebolt and make myself one hell of a sweet ride

[Kootenanny]

absolutely. He had to promote the products they had available in order to sell bikes and stay in business. Who would buy a bike from a manufacturer if the chief engineer said he didn't care for it one bit and wanted something entirely different?

Maybe Buell wanted a L/C engine all along...he'd built his first prototype back in 1989 or so...that's not to say he "didn't care for [the XBs] one bit."  He built the best bike he could with the engine he had available to him, and...it's a great bike!  

The only advantage the 1125 series has over the 'Bolt is a few more horsepower--OK, maybe quite a few--but, it would seem, it has a few disadvantages, too.  And the 'Bolt has more than enough power for anyone riding on public roads.  The only place it fails is bench racing and bragging rights.

What I'm saying is that, when EB was extolling the virtues of the A/C XBs, I have no reason to doubt he wasn't sincere.  The XBs are great bikes, for pretty much all the reasons EB mentioned.  And the Thunderstorm engine is a great streetbike engine.  

As an aside, when the 1125R came out, I was asked on this and other forums when I was going to get one.  I'm known to be enthusiastic about my Firebolt, and people naturally assumed that I would want to "upgrade" to the newer, more powerful machine.  But ya know, I never had the desire to get an 1125R.  It had nothing to do with the looks (sorry, Brad)--I just didn't see any advantage.  I'm happy with the power my Firebolt makes (I keep up just fine, thanks).  I love the size of the 'Bolt; I don't want the longer 1125R wheelbase.  I love the simplicity of the A/C engine, and most importantly, I love the way it makes power, and the way it feels making it.  Basically, the bike suits me and my riding style well, and I could never see why everyone expected me to upgrade.   Then again, I don't see why people denigrate the Firebolt in the first place...I could have bought a 600 supersport, but I preferred the 'Bolt, and I think that if more people had actually ridden the bikes with an open mind, perhaps Buell would still be in business.

Ya see, I also believe that Buell built the 1125R not just because EB wanted a L/C bike, but because the market wanted a L/C bike.  The 1125R was intended to appeal to all those people who said they'd buy a Buell if it had a L/C engine.  And while I feel the demise of Buell was a poorly thought out, capricious decision by the new board and CEO of H-D, perhaps if Buell wasn't struggling with the 1125 series so much, that decision might have been more difficult to make.

[Tpoppa]

I'm not sure how I feel about Erik Buell.

Him claiming he wanted the LC motor all along, after spouting for years how perfect the AC motor was, kinda is insulting to those who own AC Buells.  Not as insulting as crushing a Blast and making an ad about it but still.

It's because, quite frankly, Buell was lying about the development of his bikes.  He DID repeatedly claim how great the AC motor was for the application, but now that his company is gone, he wanted LC all along?

There's a certain amount of tact that is lacking here.  I used to think of him as a straight shooter, but now it seems that that may not have been the case all along.  He just kept his trap shut and played along with the Harley management.  I wonder how this would be different if we ever hear their take on this story?

A point worth clarifying it that the XB's were designed and marketed to be STREET bikes.  At no point did Buell, Erik, or otherwise claim that they were RACE bikes.  For a STREET bike, the AC Thunderstorm motor does a great job, but it isn't up to par on the track.  Common knowledge.  Buell took the AC motor to it's limits and beyond with the XBRR and proved that AC motors aren't for top level road racing.

If you know anything about Erik, you know he is a racer at heart.  He wanted nothing less than a mill capable of winning on the track.  I don't see how this is a surprise to anyone???

I think the interview is a good read.  And it should be quite obvious that there are things he cannot say.  I am sure his is furious about more than a few decisions made by HD.  He is bound by a non-compete/non-disclosure agreement and some things cannot be said.

[Brad1445]

I bet Harley is going to milk him for all his worth.  After paying to develop the successful XB bikes, now Harley hit the mother load. Soon pods will be on all the Harleys.

[Tpoppa]

Remember how Mr. Buell once said that he didn't want a water cooled engine, an how air cooled engines were perfect for sport bikes?  And remember how some Buell fans actually bought that crap and claimed (some continue to claim) that Harley never held Buell back from producing a water cooled engine?  Here's Erik Buell on that subject.

I don't remember.  Where did he say that?

[st ryder]

It took me a while to find this interview May 2000.   Halfway down, Erik Buell talks about air cooled vs. liquid cooled engines.  While he definitly pushes the air cooled engine he does not rule out using a liquid cooled engine in the future. Looks to me like he was really just defending using the engine technology that he had.   Not sure if anyone  can point to other interviews where Erik Buell discusses air cooling versus liquid cooling.  

Hopefully the link will work.

http://www.gazette9.com/buells.html/talking.htm

He goes well beyond defending his a/c engines, he states air cooled works fine, and liquid cooled is not needed for everyday bikes, (remember how the 1125R was introduced as a rider first bike/everyday bike, not a "R" bike, even though it had a R suffix?) and in fact he goes on and gives examples of air cooled engines' superiority in heat exchange situations, and only gives the most cursory of nods to liquid cooled, saying they will probably build some because some customers may want them.  

Sorry, but if you read that interview and did not come away thinking "EB says a/c is better", then I don't think you really read it with an open mind. But, even more interesting and equally inditing of his waffling nature, is that he talks a lot about the Blast in that interview in the most glowing terms, and states it was a product that was well researched, and that they not only delivered what beginners wanted, but also, ""You know what? I kinda like it that way too!" This about the very same bike he later said was not what Buell really stood for before he tossed one in the crusher.

Sorry, but EB's   spun.  

One BS story after another IMO.