Erik Buell Interview Exclusive [motorcycle-usa.com]

[chornbe]

Maybe Buell wanted a L/C engine all along...he'd built his first prototype back in 1989 or so...that's not to say he "didn't care for [the XBs] one bit."  He built the best bike he could with the engine he had available to him, and...it's a great bike!  

The only advantage the 1125 series has over the 'Bolt is a few more horsepower--OK, maybe quite a few--but, it would seem, it has a few disadvantages, too.  And the 'Bolt has more than enough power for anyone riding on public roads.  The only place it fails is bench racing and bragging rights.

What I'm saying is that, when EB was extolling the virtues of the A/C XBs, I have no reason to doubt he wasn't sincere.  The XBs are great bikes, for pretty much all the reasons EB mentioned.  And the Thunderstorm engine is a great streetbike engine.  

As an aside, when the 1125R came out, I was asked on this and other forums when I was going to get one.  I'm known to be enthusiastic about my Firebolt, and people naturally assumed that I would want to "upgrade" to the newer, more powerful machine.  But ya know, I never had the desire to get an 1125R.  It had nothing to do with the looks (sorry, Brad)--I just didn't see any advantage.  I'm happy with the power my Firebolt makes (I keep up just fine, thanks).  I love the size of the 'Bolt; I don't want the longer 1125R wheelbase.  I love the simplicity of the A/C engine, and most importantly, I love the way it makes power, and the way it feels making it.  Basically, the bike suits me and my riding style well, and I could never see why everyone expected me to upgrade.   Then again, I don't see why people denigrate the Firebolt in the first place...I could have bought a 600 supersport, but I preferred the 'Bolt, and I think that if more people had actually ridden the bikes with an open mind, perhaps Buell would still be in business.

Ya see, I also believe that Buell built the 1125R not just because EB wanted a L/C bike, but because the market wanted a L/C bike.  The 1125R was intended to appeal to all those people who said they'd buy a Buell if it had a L/C engine.  And while I feel the demise of Buell was a poorly thought out, capricious decision by the new board and CEO of H-D, perhaps if Buell wasn't struggling with the 1125 series so much, that decision might have been more difficult to make.

Very, very well stated.  

[bomber]

Ya see, I also believe that Buell built the 1125R not just because EB wanted a L/C bike, but because the market wanted a L/C bike.  The 1125R was intended to appeal to all those people who said they'd buy a Buell if it had a L/C engine.  And while I feel the demise of Buell was a poorly thought out, capricious decision by the new board and CEO of H-D, perhaps if Buell wasn't struggling with the 1125 series so much, that decision might have been more difficult to make.

I believe this is the point that's missed often -- the American motorcycle buyer often decides to purchase a spec sheet. The spec sheet boys say no rider worth his salt would settle for a bike with a Harley engine in it, to the Rotax mill was a logical step --

Along with being an pretty innovative engineer, Buell is a great jack-leg marketing guy, as well -- me, I can't fault him for being enthusiastic and what he's got to sell, not even a little.

It's so much easier to find 18 cuttings from interviews over 15 years and find the inconsistencies than it is to do the work . . . .

[steve.m]

Sorry, but if you read that interview and did not come away thinking "EB says a/c is better", then I don't think you really read it with an open mind. But, even more interesting and equally inditing of his waffling nature, is that he talks a lot about the Blast in that interview in the most glowing terms, and states it was a product that was well researched, and that they not only delivered what beginners wanted, but also, ""You know what? I kinda like it that way too!" This about the very same bike he later said was not what Buell really stood for before he tossed one in the crusher.

check the date of the interview 7/17/00.  liquid cooled engines were barely a blip on the horizon for buell at that point.  and IIRC, the blast had just come out and was a HUGE seller (comparably speaking of course).  at the time, the blast was probably carrying sales for the company, and he may have liked it at the time for being a manageable, efficient beginner's bike that would build brand loyalty.  ten years down the road...well it's a whole other story.  he states in the interview he's trying to build a road bike and AC works great for that.  When buell went under they were trying to build race bikes that were liquid cooled...which is exactly the application he suggested LC would be ideally suited.

I don't think he's waffling...i think you guys are reading things out of context.  I feel that buell's mission statement changed a bit in the end, seeing that ricky racer wants a sportbike he sees racing on a track...not a street machine.

name a company today that's operating under the same mission statement as ten years ago and i'll show you a company that's out of business.  Buell was trying to adapt to the market, just too little, too late.  and brad...beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I like the CR, i think it looks like the pit bull of motorcycles.  you can't tell me buell went down because of the appearance of it's bikes.  I HATE the way the new kawasaki's look...yet i see them all over the place.  

[Tpoppa]

He goes well beyond defending his a/c engines, he states air cooled works fine, and liquid cooled is not needed for everyday bikes, (remember how the 1125R was introduced as a rider first bike/everyday bike, not a "R" bike, even though it had a R suffix?) and in fact he goes on and gives examples of air cooled engines' superiority in heat exchange situations, and only gives the most cursory of nods to liquid cooled, saying they will probably build some because some customers may want them.  

Sorry, but if you read that interview and did not come away thinking "EB says a/c is better", then I don't think you really read it with an open mind. But, even more interesting and equally inditing of his waffling nature, is that he talks a lot about the Blast in that interview in the most glowing terms, and states it was a product that was well researched, and that they not only delivered what beginners wanted, but also, ""You know what? I kinda like it that way too!" This about the very same bike he later said was not what Buell really stood for before he tossed one in the crusher.

Sorry, but EB's   spun.  

One BS story after another IMO.  

This thread has officially gotten ridiculous.

Go play the 'what did he say 10 years ago game' with Obama (or insert any other non-partisan name here) and tell me what you come up with

[st ryder]

Between the blatant shift in his positions on both the a/c-l/c engine issue, and the way he treated the Blast, I cannot ally myself with the man as he's consistently demonstrated a lack of congruity if not integrity IMO, both of which matter very much to me. I understand people change, but acknowledging the shift in opinions etc with an explanation or an "I was wrong" or "I've changed my mind" would be nice.

"Racer/engineer?" Fair enough. "Flim flammer/snake oil sales man?" I say it fits equally well.   I like the older a/c tubers, especially the Thunderbolt and if I can pick one up for a song I might, but the more he speaks, the less I'm interested to tell you the truth.  

[Tpoppa]

Between the blatant shift in his positions on both the a/c-l/c engine issue, and the way he treated the Blast, I cannot ally myself with the man as he's consistently demonstrated a lack of congruity if not integrity IMO, both of which matter very much to me. I understand people change, but acknowledging the shift in opinions etc with an explanation or an "I was wrong" or "I've changed my mind" would be nice.

"Racer/engineer?" Fair enough. "Flim flammer/snake oil sales man?" I say it fits equally well.   I like the older a/c tubers, especially the Thunderbolt and if I can pick one up for a song I might, but the more he speaks, the less I'm interested to tell you the truth.  

You are missing quite a bit of information.  Google is your friend.  The Blast began life as a HD (not Buell) project.  The plan to kill the Blast was NOT Erik's idea.  Note the timing of the Blast killing, the decision was made just as the new HD CEO came onboard and was not yet up to speed, and the outgoing CEO was not able to stop it...  

If you are going to basically call the man a liar...at least show me whrere he said an AC motor was the best option for a sportbike?  I doubt you can.  Also, common sense would dictate that it's not a good idea to speak badly about AC motors when your parent company is the largest manufacturer or AC motorcycle mills.  

Ducati makes AC & LC mills does that mean they are flim flammers?  BMW?

[st ryder]

You are missing quite a bit of information.  Google is your friend.  The Blast began life as a HD (not Buell) project.  The plan to kill the Blast was NOT Erik's idea.  Note the timing of the Blast killing, the decision was made just as the new HD CEO came onboard and was not yet up to speed, and the outgoing CEO was not able to stop it...  

If you are going to basically call the man a liar...at least show me whrere he said an AC motor was the best option for a sportbike?  I doubt you can.  Also, common sense would dictate that it's not a good idea to speak badly about AC motors when your parent company is the largest manufacturer or AC motorcycle mills.  

Ducati makes AC & LC mills does that mean they are flim flammers?  BMW?

I have nothing against Buell a/c bikes or a/c bikes in general. Had a couple of FJ 12's and a HD BT, want a MG and am open to a Buell not to mention how much I like some Ducati and BMW a/c twins. I do recognise their limits and quite frankly was insulted by EB's comments when I read them in 2000 and it turned me off to Buell a bit, because of the way he was, for all intents and purposes, infering they were better than l/c for getting rid of heat and quicker warm up etc and if fact, he stated in that article that other than noise reduction and the attraction they may have for some Buell fans, he did not feel l/c had many advantages over a/c. I remember saying to myself then, "Who's he trying to kid?" Like I said before, I cannot imagine anybody reading that aricle and not thinking EB's "message" was that a/c is better than L/C in most applications. Then, a decade later, he states he wanted l/c all along.

I cannot think of any Ducati or BMW executive that stated so many positive things about a/c engines as opposed to l/c than EB is on record for saying about a/c engines when that's was all he had for sale. That's the issue. He promoted with great zeal, an engine he truly felt was second best, so he could sell bikes. He mislead others as to what his true beliefs were. Saying one thing while believing in another so you can make a living is what I call film flam. You may call it something else.  

The Blast may not have started out as a Buell, but when it went into the crusher, Mr Buell's name was on it and Mr Buell was at the controls of the crane and Mr Buell acted like he was having a good time doing it.  I cannot think of any other motorcycle company that would do that.  

[Tpoppa]

I didn't care for the Blast crushing.  Keep in mind, retiring the Blast was conceived by HD.  Crushing the Blast was conceived by HD marketing--Buell had no marketing department.

I suspect (and have heard from some with inside info) that retiring the Blast was presented as 'Now you can focus on race bikes.  The Blast idea came from Zeimer (google him), perhaps Erik would have been more attached to it if it was his concept...who knows.

Either way, I thoug the Blast crushing was in poor taste, and I am reminded that Buell had no marketing department.

btw, the first Buell was liquid cooled.

[Brad1445]

..........

I don't think he's waffling...i think you guys are reading things out of context.  I feel that buell's mission statement changed a bit in the end, seeing that ricky racer wants a sportbike he sees racing on a track...not a street machine.

.........

read through the post at Badweb from the company itself,  they post under  the name anonymous.
I have been there for about six years.  

Since the 1125 they made the company sound like Waffle House.  Everyone blaming some one else for this or that, or claiming a flaw was meant to be that way one week, and then  a fix would appear a week later...  Truth was hard to find ever since the 1125 intro.

Sometime you could find a contradiction within a single post.

Side note, I find it hard to believe that a company that is arguably one of the best marketers in the world (Harley) would have made or approved that Blast add.  Marketing 101, Don't call your customers stupid.

[chornbe]

I don't recall hearing Erik extoll the virtues of air- over water-cooled, but he has always maintained that the twins make the most sense for street power delivery. As far as the air/water thing, he probably just said and used whatever was best for the goal du jour. Maybe he never had the $$$ to develop the water cooled engine he really wanted all along and decided to *choose* to love the air cooled engines made available to him by Harley. In the end... who cares. How many of us have spent our entire adult lives doing something we truly love, becoming very successful at it and becoming someone who, quirks aside, is almost a house-hold name in this business?

[steve.m]

Since the 1125 they made the company sound like Waffle House.  Everyone blaming some one else for this or that, or claiming a flaw was meant to be that way one week, and then  a fix would appear a week later...  Truth was hard to find ever since the 1125 intro.

an unsuccessful engineering design is exactly that...Buell tried NEW concepts that didn't ALWAYS work.  they took a hell of a lot more chances than most companies their size should have.  Those conceptual designs that made it to production will be defended by the developers until the public deems it a flaw.  once the market finds a flaw, the company will HAVE to change it to maintain their business.  

I know you're in marketing...but c'mon man, you should know a little bit about how engineering departments operate by now.  

I think we've all agreed that the 1125 was released before the bugs were worked out and it hurt buell's PR.  move on...  

[bomber]

I cannot ally myself with the man as he's consistently demonstrated a lack of congruity if not integrity IMO, both of which matter very much to me.



"Racer/engineer?" Fair enough. "Flim flammer/snake oil sales man?" I say it fits equally well.  

An inetersting method by which to decide on product purchases . . . .

What is it you ride? (nah, that's a rhetorical qeustion).

[wbrisett]

You are missing quite a bit of information.  Google is your friend.  The Blast began life as a HD (not Buell) project.  

According to Court's book 25 Years of Buell, this isn't entirely accurate either. The Blast only came about because nobody at HD wanted to build a smaller bike, but they needed one for the MSF course. Erik was asked about it and said they would design one. In the book there is a photo or two of prototypes used for the Blast. It was a Buell, but not designed for Buell, but for HD. And more specifically for the Rider's Edge program.

Wayne

[Tpoppa]

I haven't read that book, and probably won't.

The former CEO propsed the idea for a cheaper entry level bike because saw a need to attract younger buyers to the HD brand, including Riders Edge.  It was shot down because 'We Build Big Bikes for Badasses."  That idea eventually became the Blast.

Does that book mention anything about the Blast being the test mule for the Thunderstorm mill?

[steve.m]

According to Court's book 25 Years of Buell, this isn't entirely accurate either. The Blast only came about because nobody at HD wanted to build a smaller bike, but they needed one for the MSF course. Erik was asked about it and said they would design one. In the book there is a photo or two of prototypes used for the Blast. It was a Buell, but not designed for Buell, but for HD. And more specifically for the Rider's Edge program.

Wayne

Proof the 883 sportster is NOT a beginner's bike

[chornbe]

Proof the 883 sportster is NOT a beginner's bike

I don't care how many "faithful" put their previously non-riding spouses on them, the Sportster makes a horrible first bike. It's intimidating to new riders. For a variety of reasons.

[Kootenanny]

I cannot think of any Ducati or BMW executive that stated so many positive things about a/c engines as opposed to l/c than EB is on record for saying about a/c engines when that's was all he had for sale. That's the issue. He promoted with great zeal, an engine he truly felt was second best, so he could sell bikes. He mislead others as to what his true beliefs were. Saying one thing while believing in another so you can make a living is what I call film flam. You may call it something else.  

Sure he promoted the bike with great zeal.  What's he supposed to do, cry and moan that H-D won't give him the money to develop a L/C engine?  Yeah, he's gonna sell a LOT of XBs that way.  Or should he promote the Thunderstorm engine, and use sales from that to fund future developments?

I don't see you castigating any of the Big Four for this, but...pick up any old magazine and check the advertisements, you'll see they always promote their latest offerings "with great zeal."  Yet, two years down the road, they always come out with something even better!  Any company has bikes in the design stage--but none of them are saying, "Don't buy our current production bikes because in two years we're gonna have something even better!"  


BTW, have you seen the video clip of David Robb talking about the S1000R?  

[chornbe]

I should sue Honda. I owned two CBR600F4i models, yet they're supplanted by two generations of CBR/RR bikes. DAMN IT!
 

[bomber]

It's really too bad that Buell has truly closed . . . . . . the buzz generated in the last few months could very well have propelled to brand to a HUGE sales spike!

[Tpoppa]

Sure he promoted the bike with great zeal.  What's he supposed to do, cry and moan that H-D won't give him the money to develop a L/C engine?  Yeah, he's gonna sell a LOT of XBs that way.  Or should he promote the Thunderstorm engine, and use sales from that to fund future developments?

I don't see you castigating any of the Big Four for this, but...pick up any old magazine and check the advertisements, you'll see they always promote their latest offerings "with great zeal."  Yet, two years down the road, they always come out with something even better!  Any company has bikes in the design stage--but none of them are saying, "Don't buy our current production bikes because in two years we're gonna have something even better!"  


BTW, have you seen the video clip of David Robb talking about the S1000R?  

Hey, someone that understands business!!
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