Which bike to get.....undecided right now

[cognosticator]

I am looking at a 2005 BMW R1200ST ABS with 9000 miles for $8,000 and a 2009 Concours C14 ABS for 12,980 brand new out the door

I have ridden both the BMW and a 2008 C14 and really like them both.

The BMW is 505 lbs  wet, 110hp and 85 ft lb torque and has a range of 247 miles

The Connie is appx 710 lbs wet and has approximately the same range more power and  torque

The BMW really fits me great and I am leaning towards it, but I am trying to get a hold of my emotions  

I can do the valve adjust on the BMW but would not even attempt it on the C14.  No kipass on the BMW (a good thing to me)

I know I will finally buy the one I want but I would like to hear some comments from y'all  pros and cons for either bike.

[Andrew]

Same boat here,
  Looking and about to pull the trigger (R1150GSA) Trying to think rationally about a emotional thing like wanting/buying a bike is hard.

For me it is about the riding erros (6'2" and need to bend the legs) and the fact that I like the ride of the GS

Which bike do you like to ride the most, Does the BMW feel better than the ZX??
Does the cost difference matter that much to where you stand?

In the end if the $$$ don't matter than the ride will.
Buy what you like to ride

[Yankee Dog]

They are really very different bikes.  One is true sport tourer.  The other more of a hooligan bike.  

What do you want to do with it?

Yankee Dog

[DosEquis00]

The BMW is 505 lbs  wet, 110hp and 85 ft lb torque and has a range of 247 miles

The Connie is appx 710 lbs wet and has approximately the same range more power and  torque

The connie range is closer to 200 miles from my experience.

[Kraz]

My advice is to go with your gut.  Never rationalize a motorcycle purchase.

To me, it's like buying art, or a toy.  You don't think much about it... you just buy the one you HAVE to have.

[Norwegian Blue]

I think you should get the Connie.

(then you should tell me where the hell you found a low-mileage ST for $8,000!)

[ksann]

R12 all the way.

The weight diff is huge, and the engine/suspension is fantastic.

I too love that bike.



ken

[cognosticator]

Same boat here,
  Looking and about to pull the trigger (R1150GSA) Trying to think rationally about a emotional thing like wanting/buying a bike is hard.

For me it is about the riding erros (6'2" and need to bend the legs) and the fact that I like the ride of the GS

Which bike do you like to ride the most, Does the BMW feel better than the ZX??
Does the cost difference matter that much to where you stand?

In the end if the $$$ don't matter than the ride will.
Buy what you like to ride

It has been 2 years since I rode the Connie and I remember enjoying the ergos and the power, but I did feel some heat on my right leg but not enough to bother me.  The Bmw is owned by a friend and I will be picking it up today to ride for a week and have it checked out at a BMW dealer.

I liked the way the BMW felt while riding it. like it was made for me  

[cognosticator]

They are really very different bikes.  One is true sport tourer.  The other more of a hooligan bike.  

What do you want to do with it?

Yankee Dog

I am probably more of a hooligan, but try to take a nice long ride each year (Last year was 4600 miles in 12 days)  I think both bikes would handle both roles, the C14 more of the hooligan but from what I have read the BMW isn't a slouch in that department either

[cognosticator]

I think you should get the Connie.

(then you should tell me where the hell you found a low-mileage ST for $8,000!)

   I think it is a bargain, it is a guy I ride with. He has only put 2000 miles on it in 2 years.  

[cognosticator]

R12 all the way.

The weight diff is huge, and the engine/suspension is fantastic.

I too love that bike.
ken

The weight diff is really getting my attention.  It would be nice to be able to borrow a C14 for a weekend like I am able to do the ST.  I have owned 3 Connie C10s and don't miss the top heavy bike.  I bought a 2001 C10 in Sept, took it on a 3 day weekend and decided to sell it when I got back home  

[JonS]

To me, the weight difference is so overwhelming that I wouldn't even consider the Connie. Plus the BMW is much better looking and far cheaper for a slightly used bike, verses a new Kawa.

[Norwegian Blue]

   I think it is a bargain, it is a guy I ride with. He has only put 2000 miles on it in 2 years.  

Believe me, it is a bargain. I've been keeping my eyes open for one for the past year or two, and the only ones I've seen at all below $10k have had 30k+ miles.

Seriously, if you were to go with the Connie (and, alas, if I weren't about to have work done on my house) I would ask for your buddy's contact info.

[Bjorn Toulouse]

I have ridden both the BMW and a 2008 C14 and really like them both.

The fact that you have ridden both bikes and neither told you, viscerally, that, "I AM THE ONE!",
makes me think that:

A) Both are the wrong bike.

B) You're ready for a nice minivan.


Rex

[Lawn Dart]

R12ST.  The Connie's just too heavy.  

[dorklord]

I am looking at a 2005 BMW R1200ST ABS with 9000 miles for $8,000 and a 2009 Concours C14 ABS for 12,980 brand new out the door

I have ridden both the BMW and a 2008 C14 and really like them both.

The BMW is 505 lbs  wet, 110hp and 85 ft lb torque and has a range of 247 miles

The Connie is appx 710 lbs wet and has approximately the same range more power and  torque

The BMW really fits me great and I am leaning towards it, but I am trying to get a hold of my emotions  

I can do the valve adjust on the BMW but would not even attempt it on the C14.  No kipass on the BMW (a good thing to me)

I know I will finally buy the one I want but I would like to hear some comments from y'all  pros and cons for either bike.

It is a little hard to compare quoted weights among manufactures, that weight for the Connie sounded a little high, when I googled it I found 618 dry, various places quoting 660-680 wet (probably varying amounts of fuel, some use no fuel, some use 1 gallon, some a full tank to quote wet weight) and then found 507 (no fuel) and 521 (wet) and 505 (wet) listed here and there for the R1200ST. Those all seem to be without the optional bags, I really don't know how much those weigh or if you would be using the BMW bags or something else.

Things like valve adjustment and spark plug changes on the Connie are, to be honest, a huge PIA. The BMW should be pretty dang easy. For me, if I liked riding them 'equally' it would come down to considerations of cost, and one factor in that would be dealers. If there is a BMW dealer in reasonable range, well, you're looking at a lighter bike with low miles for way less money, and you'll be able to do most of the maintenance at home. Sounds like a no-brainer.

For me, it is a long way (3 hours 1 way at best) to the nearest BMW shop, but for that price difference, and considering that I already wrench on my bike, I'd get the BMW.

Of course, it would be hard for me to give a BMW vs Kawasaki a fair comparison, because there aren't many BMWs around here to test ride...

[cognosticator]

The fact that you have ridden both bikes and neither told you, viscerally, that, "I AM THE ONE!",
makes me think that:

A) Both are the wrong bike.

B) You're ready for a nice minivan.

Rex

The BMW has already told me that "it is the one"    One thing I worry about is the rear end, I have quite a few riding buddies who all ride BMW's and 3 of them have had the rear end go out on a bike  

I feel I could do most of the work on the BMW. not so much the Connie.

I just picked up the BMW from my friend to do some maintenance this weekend.  It does have a fuel starvation problem when I go WOT, just like fuel was shut off, then it will catch back up.  I will put a new fuel filter on it and check some hoses for crimping. If that doesn't work it is off to Greenville SC next weekend for a throttle body sync and put on their computer.

I have really made up my mind, it is the BMW, as long as it runs the way it should.  I don't need a bike that will give me constant problems.  I can't afford a BMW dealer too often.

[atadaskew]

I think the BMW R12St is about the ideal sport tourer.  I really liked the one that I demoed at a BMW event, much more so than the RT.  Just more fun to ride.
Great handling, suspension, brakes, light weight, shaft drive, hard bags.  Really the perfect combo.
I wouldn't get a bike like a C14, FJR etc because I'm one of those doods that just doesn't understand why they are so big and heavy.

[st2sam]

Get the Connie, yes it's a fat pig, but  you don't feel the weight, (most of it) once you get it rolling. If you have problems the BMW will break you. The BMW is four years older and out of warranty. The C14 has a three year unlimited mileage warranty!
One more thing, the C14 is light years ahead of the C10 in everyway. IMO - do yourself a favor and ride (extended) a C14 again, per ferably right after you ride the Beemer, you might change your mind.

[Smurfslayer]

I've rented 3 bmw's (4 if you count the replacement we had for 18 hours before it died).  2 of them worked great.  The last 2, not so much.  The last 2 were '05 & '07 1200RT's.  The first one lunched the abs modulator coming down susten pass into Andermatt.  I kept pulling the lever to stop and nothing was happening.  Then the modulator finaly threw it's "fault light" and the rear wheel locked up instantly.

Bad juju.  At the bottom of the pass I ended up smack in the middle of a group of 4  bikes stopped.  Yikes.  

The renter replaced it with the '07 which went about 100km & mystyeriously quit.  

I'm not saying my story is reflective of every bmw, but you did say an '05 bmw which would probably use the same abs modulator if it's an abs bike.  

Buy what you want, and you already know about the rear end issues.  If you're informed and the bike does it for you, go forth and purchase.  

Personally... I'd buy the Connie.  I've got a ZX14 though...


   

[bikerfish1100]

fwiw, my buddy put 120,000 miles on his R12ST, gave it to his wife, and picked up another R12ST for himself. His first one lunched the crown gear in the FD at around 80,000 miles, but it deterred him not from getting another.

[dorklord]

I think the BMW R12St is about the ideal sport tourer.  I really liked the one that I demoed at a BMW event, much more so than the RT.  Just more fun to ride.
Great handling, suspension, brakes, light weight, shaft drive, hard bags.  Really the perfect combo.
I wouldn't get a bike like a C14, FJR etc because I'm one of those doods that just doesn't understand why they are so big and heavy.

The R1200ST is really in a somewhat different class than the FJR or C14, the R1200RT is more comparable to the FJR or C14. The STs bags are optional, it doesn't have a lower fairing, it has a less comfortable rear seat (not as wide, flat, or long, up quite a bit higher, higher pegs), much lower clip-on style bars, smaller windshield, no area behind the rear seat, while the RT has a rack (I know you can put a rack on the ST, but you get the point).

I liked the used R1200ST that I drove, and if I had been looking for a 'solo' rig I probably would have gotten it, but I think if you are going to be carrying a pillion all the time, and that pillion isn't short/petite, something like a C14, FJR, St1300 or R1200RT may be the ticket.

Chris

[SLOspeed]

One thing I worry about is the rear end, I have quite a few riding buddies who all ride BMW's and 3 of them have had the rear end go out on a bike  

what do your buddies ride?  The FD was completely redesigned for the r1200 series (and revised a couple times since then, even).  From what I've read, it looks like the failure rate is much lower on the 1200's.

[YamadogR1]

I have had my R1200ST since October 2005 and it has 26,000 miles on it. The only problem I have had with it is that I had to buy a battery. It has been a fun and comfortable bike that will do quite well on a twisty road. Dunlop Roadsmart tires work very well on it. They quicken up the steering and the bike still stays stable in fast corners.

[cognosticator]

what do your buddies ride?  The FD was completely redesigned for the r1200 series (and revised a couple times since then, even).  From what I've read, it looks like the failure rate is much lower on the 1200's.

Now two ride a R12GS, one an R11S, one rides the R1150RS, another rides a K12S, one a K12GT, another rides the K1150RS

The two rear end failures were on older R11RS's

Compared to my SV1000S, even with swatt clipon at 2 1/2" rise the ST feel like I am sitting up straight.  I still like the upper body wind and the lower protection is nice, at least today in the cold and rain riding the bike home.  I just got to get this fuel deliver problem worked out,and my son sell his bike and buy mine.  This R1200ST comes with the larger system saddle bags too, nice addition and I have a Givi E52 to mount on the back.

[cognosticator]

I have had my R1200ST since October 2005 and it has 26,000 miles on it. The only problem I have had with it is that I had to buy a battery. It has been a fun and comfortable bike that will do quite well on a twisty road. Dunlop Roadsmart tires work very well on it. They quicken up the steering and the bike still stays stable in fast corners.

If I get this bike, I will be spooning on a set of the new Avon Storm 2 Ultra tires.  Right now the front tire on this bike is toast and the rear is flat spotted and the handling is a little quirky, but I know with good tires this will be a different ride.

[cognosticator]

Well, I could not get the R1200ST running right and it has burned up a coil, actually two.  I will be taking the bike back to the owner and start looking again.

Hmmmmmmmmm, C14 or FJR   LOL  The quest continues.

[Ves]

Horsepower to weight ratio  111/505=x/710...  X=156.  Connie would need to make 156 hp to equal the BMW in that department.

[falconati]

They are really very different bikes.  One is true sport tourer.  The other more of a hooligan bike.  

What do you want to do with it?

Yankee Dog

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Which is the hooligan bike?


Anyway, get the BMW.  Sure, the final drive will break every 5 miles, but at least you won't be riding a piggy

[cognosticator]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Which is the hooligan bike?
Anyway, get the BMW.  Sure, the final drive will break every 5 miles, but at least you won't be riding a piggy

The BMW keeps frying left hand secondary coils so that bike is out of the picture completely.  

[canyonchaser]

My advice is to go with your gut.  Never rationalize a motorcycle purchase.

To me, it's like buying art, or a toy.  You don't think much about it... you just buy the one you HAVE to have.

I completely agree. Motorcycles are emotional decisions and should not be demeaned with petty, and meaningless obsession with stats and numbers.  Listen to your heart.

dp

[Mastros2]

My advice is to go with your gut.  Never rationalize a motorcycle purchase.

To me, it's like buying art, or a toy.  You don't think much about it... you just buy the one you HAVE to have.

I agree but my motorcycles are more transportation than toys.  I say go with the bmw.  It's cheaper and has easier maintenance.  Go with your gut.

[Norwegian Blue]

I agree but my motorcycles are more transportation than toys.  I say go with the bmw.  It's cheaper and has easier maintenance.  Go with your gut.

Methinks a number of people posted while you were posting the bit about the coils frying themselves....

So what's the story with that? Is it a chronic problem the current owner has experienced? I've heard the coils are a weak point in some oilheads, but I don't know if it's a design problem or a bad batch of coils.

Trying to decide if I might be interested if it's for sale and you're definitely not going to pull the trigger.

[cognosticator]

Methinks a number of people posted while you were posting the bit about the coils frying themselves....

So what's the story with that? Is it a chronic problem the current owner has experienced? I've heard the coils are a weak point in some oilheads, but I don't know if it's a design problem or a bad batch of coils.

Trying to decide if I might be interested if it's for sale and you're definitely not going to pull the trigger.

Well  yesterday I bought a new '09 Kaw Concours C14. On the BMW  I was told to check the wire going to the coil. I am taking the bike back to the owner and let him deal with it.  He had 3,400 of engine work on it two years ago, put 2k miles on it in 2 years so I am not sure if it would be a constant problem or not, but I don't want to find out.  I got a new bike with a 3 year warranty so now I can ride and relax.

If you do decide you are interested I will get you in touch with him, he is in Richmond Hill GA and he was going to trade the bike in on a car.

[Norwegian Blue]

Well  yesterday I bought a new '09 Kaw Concours C14. On the BMW  I was told to check the wire going to the coil. I am taking the bike back to the owner and let him deal with it.  He had 3,400 of engine work on it two years ago, put 2k miles on it in 2 years so I am not sure if it would be a constant problem or not, but I don't want to find out.  I got a new bike with a 3 year warranty so now I can ride and relax.

If you do decide you are interested I will get you in touch with him, he is in Richmond Hill GA and he was going to trade the bike in on a car.

Thanks, but I found the threads you put up on a few other boards seeking advice and I think you made a wise decision passing on this one. I will do the same (there's clearly a reason the price was so low for a low-mileage example). No reason to buy someone else's headache.

[Motodisiac]

Get the Beemer. It fits you, you like it, and it will hold it's value better.

If you want better bike get the Kawi  

I'm a little sceptical about BMW's 505lbs wet weight...