Yet another help me decide - (lightweight?) SPORT touring - DECIDED!

[Dan K]

Finally sold the Fz1 and am looking for a new bike.  Here's my list.  Have about $5k to spend, could go higher, say another thousand or two, but am really trying to respect my wife's intense dislike of bikes by not digging into other funds (I'd have a slightly used K1300S or new Multistrada    on order if she liked bikes.... )

ANYWAY - here's my edited short list.  

VFR - want more power, as I may sell Tuono and get a sidecar rig to cruise the kids around on....
Sprint ST - only if I find a deal
Futura - still looking for a good specimen
F800ST - see VFR
FZ1 (Gen2) with lower fairings
Ducati ST - not talking to me
K1200S - if I can find a good deal, still on the table

ZX14
XX
ZZR
BUSA

(don't want to give up the power of the FZ1 I just sold...)

Bike is for commuting to downtown Chicago everyday its dry and over 40, errands, and multipe trips to and from Michigan all summer (220 miles one way).  If I feel like a hooligan, I can ride my Tuono (as long as I have it...)

Just sold my almost perfect FZ1 (want weather protection...).  I will need a topcase.  Even if I find a Futura or Sprint with matching bags, will likely just add a topcase for everyday commuting, add panniers for touring.

Since you guys all have opinions on everything, I'm looking for some suggestions.  VFR's and Futuras are likley the least expensive, then Gen2 FZ1's, and I get kind of beyond what I want to spend after Sprints.

I like the weather protection afforded by full fairings, and that is the ONLY reason I sold my FZ1, which I am missing already, even though it's still in my garage (at least until the check clears).  I've never ridden a Futura, only minor jaunts on VFR's and a Sprint, and recently happened upon an ad for the F800ST, though I haven't ever ridden one.  Adequate saddle time on a K1300S and I want one, but can't drop the coin, so K1200S is on the list, though I've never ridden one. Never ridden a Ducati ST, but it fits the category, so it's on the list.

I loved my FZ1 but want weather protection - the Tuono is plenty for fun rides, but I want the smoothness and as close to the power and handling of the FZ1 with  effective, wind and rain blocking fairings.

Any advice?  I expect to keep whatever I buy for a while, but I want it to be fun to ride too, as the Tuono might one day give way to an older bike with a sidecar so I can cruise both my kids around in the summer (one on back, one in the sidecar...)

- Dan

[Norwegian Blue]

Hate to say it, but I think you'll have to strike both the F800ST and the K1200S from your list -- even high mileage ones aren't into the $5k range yet. Only way you would get into that price range is if the bike were to have a salvage title.

Methinks the only BMWs that might fit your criteria would be either an R1100/1150RS or an older R1100S. I would also toss the R1150R into the ring, but even with a touring windscreen attached I think it would have insufficient protection for you (although standard heated grips help a lot).

[Dan K]

I hear ya, but I'm willing to throw a couple extra dollars down for the right bike and saw a beautiful F800S with fairings for I believe $6k or $6500.  

I've found jaxed.com, using "the mash" will find you every bike on craigslist and ebay by make and model.  Kind of cool way to gauge the market.

Anyway, R bikes are out - I just don't love the opposed twin.  Ridden a bunch of them, they just don't do it for me.

I'm finding it always costs more to get what you really want.  I need to buy a new car too. That will at least partially be financed, unlike bikes, which thanks to Chicago area winter (forever) I couldn't handle making a payment when I wasn't riding.

- Dan

[marc11]

Of the ones you listed, considering it as a commuter, traffic fighter and downtown parking, plus maint costs like tires and vale adjustments, I would say Sprint or VFR as a do it all bike that can be found on the cheap. But I do think you are leaving A LOT of commuter/light touring bikes off your list IMHO.

[Dan K]

But I do think you are leaving A LOT of commuter/light touring bikes off your list IMHO.

Opinions are what I'm looking for.  What am I missing?  I just sold a bike and now have the cash burning a hole in my pocket, even though I can't ride regularly until the end of March or so.  What do I buy?  Remember, I'm looking for wind protection, ergos, and will sorely miss being able to go 0-60 in less than 3 seconds.

- Dan

[marc11]

Where are you parking it, do you care if it gets dinked, knocked over, etc?  I am really thinking a Sprint may fit. Cheap to buy, gen ones even cheaper, easy to maintaine, cheap and available spares, not a high profile bike for theft, good power and protection, most if not all have side if not a top case, etc.

[UFO]

Some of those bikes aren't that "lightweight" ie. VFR and K1200S, and there's no way you'll get a used K12S for $5K.  The F800ST certainly is light, but might be a struggle to find close to $5K.

Best bet on that list is a used VFR/ST/Futura.

[Kraz]

I've owned an ST2 and '00 VFR.  Both were great, can be picked up fairly cheap, and had hardbags (aftermarket add-ons for the Viffer).

ST2 was the greatest bike I'd ever owned.  Easy, 2 valve, air cooled, great sound, V-twin powerband, sexy, helmet-sized hardbags, great handling... and definitely in your price range.  The only problem I ran into with it was the connection to the solenoid switch was a little shaky... but I didn't have it that long.

VFR was fun, but I had some minor problems with it including a worth clutch basket, wax idler went bad (controls low/high idle), some other funky sensors went out.  Overall fun, great sound and performance.  Great ergo's (for me), light, comfy.

It's so hard to tell what you'll like w/o test riding.  Go with your gut.

[bobnflorida]

The 800 ST is my favorite bike right now for sport touring. You should be able to find one without all the bells and whistles in the mid-6's. It is a great bike. I have the 08 without all the addons. Love it. The belt drive is terrific. Problem free. Good usuable power and very smooth. Lightweight and great gas milage. I get right around 59. I have owned many of the other bikes on your list and would vote for the St as number one. Good luck with your search.

[reddog15]

As someone who has both a Futura and a VFR I would say go with the VFR. I base this on the smoothness, handling, wind protection and parts availability of the VFR. Believe it or not, the VFR does have better wind protection/less buffeting! The VFR gives up some power to the Futura but with the balance of the other attributes of the VFR I can apply the VFR better. My 2.5 cents...

[Dan K]

Where are you parking it, do you care if it gets dinked, knocked over, etc?  I am really thinking a Sprint may fit. Cheap to buy, gen ones even cheaper, easy to maintaine, cheap and available spares, not a high profile bike for theft, good power and protection, most if not all have side if not a top case, etc.

Will be in my garage or in the parking garage at the Trump Hotel (across the street from my office).

If any like bikes are missing from the list, let me know.

Like I said, I'll drop a few extra dollars on the table for the right bike, (maybe up to $7k for the perfect bike...) but like Skipper suggested, my list has been Sprint/VFR/Futura since before I sold the FZ1 and really started digging.

It's my lust for a K1300S making me think I want a K1200S and making me think I'll drop another couple grand into the mix.  

The 800ST is a new addition to the list, and I know next to nothing about them, but like the belt drive and the very light weight.

As for the title of the thread, light weight compared to the FJR/Connie14 family of bikes that seem to dominate the touring market these days.


ANYONE that has info or opinions on any of the listed bikes or thinks a bike is missing from the list, PLEASE let me know.  I am not Chornbe and plan to keep this bike for a significant period of time...want to buy the right one.


- Dan

[sagerat]

Kawi Versys.

Note, I don't own one, so I'm not partaking of the fine STN tradition of "buy my bike!"

[Dan K]

I like the Versys, but it's not fully faired. For half faired bikes, I'd just keep the FZ1. Better ergos, better performance, just as aftermarket support  Versys probably gets better has mileage, but the main goal is a fully faired bike to compliment the naked Tuono.

-Dan

[Norwegian Blue]

Kawi Versys.

Not, I don't own one, so I'm not partaking of the fine STN tradition of "buy my bike!"

That's a darned good suggestion.

Other good options include the Suzuki V-Strom (1100) or Wee-Strom (650). And the more I think about it, the more I like the Wee-Strom for your purposes -- nice torquey engine which is excellent for urban adventures, sufficient grunt for the highways, nice upright riding position for urban road warfare, longish suspension to absorb Chicago's legendary potholes, good gas mileage, adequate protection from the fairings (although I believe buffeting has been an issue with the stock windscreen), and ugly enough that you won't mind using it to commute every day.

Getting back to the F800 -- there are two models that might fit your needs, the F800ST and the F800S. The ST sold pretty well and is still offered in the U.S. market. Those are holding their value pretty well -- you might find one in your price range (accounting for your willingness to pay more), but at least in my area they aren't coming down in price very much -- e.g. my localish BMW dealer has a 2007 F800ST with 58,000 miles for just under $8,000, and I usually see them right around $10,000. The F800S, by contrast, was only sold for one model year and sold about as well as ham sandwiches at the Oslo Accords. You can easily find low mileage examples for right around $7,000, but they have a much sportier riding position, a smaller windscreen, and only a half-fairing (any lower fairings are aftermarket). You may spend less money up front, but then have to spend more money to make it what you want it to be.

[ScottB]

5th Gen VFR?  It's a whole lot sexier then the 6th gen and it's probably a bit easier on the pocketbook.

[cbolling]

Yamaha Tmax.

[Marcster]

I just have to say: Futura.  But I base that only on my lust for that bike...

[lizard]

If you don't need tons o' torque or comfy passenger accommodations, you might consider a several gen old 600 crotchety rocket? Like a YZF600, CBR600, ZX-6 from the late 90's early '00's. Lots of these bikes have reasonable riding positions, fully adjustable suspension, 100+HP, good brakes, light weight, and reasonable prices.

I haven't ridden most of the bikes on your short list, but not many of them are "light" in my book. I had a Y2k VFR and it was ok, but it felt top heavy in low speed maneuvers and the FI was jerky at low speed. Basically like an on/off switch in 1st gear, better in 2nd, and the issue was mostly gone in higher gears than that. I sold it after a couple of years due to these reasons. I wound up with the ZZR600. It is essentially a '02 ZX-6 with revised body work for a new "look". It is approx. 100lbs lighter than the VFR and does not feel top heavy, has carbs (some pros & some cons, but smooth low speed on/off throttle transitions), similar riding position and performance (I do miss the linked brakes on occasion). I have a top case mounted for commuting, but there aren't any direct bolt on mounts for hard side bags that I've found. I think there is a post about modifying ZR-7 mounts, but I haven't done it yet.

[specialk]

What about a late model ZX-9? Good ergos, plenty of power, sporty, and decent looks? Or a ZX-12 perhaps?

[JonS]

I just have to say: Futura.  But I base that only on my lust for that bike...

 

From my experience riding with a guy who had one, it handles great and has lots of power. It also has hardcases and a good fairing.
I find the VFR very bland. Sure the motor is smoother, but that would hold little value to me.

[sagerat]

1st Gen Kawi Concours.

Hey, somebody had to say it.

[motociclista]

Glad to see you finally sold the FZ1. It was painful watching such a worthy bike hang out there in the breeze so long.

Not on your list, but I think it's a shame you could never work out a trade for Ack535's ZZR1200: http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,46639.0.html. Not light, but lots o' wind and weather protection there. Just sayin'...

[phoenix]

I've owned (and done some long trips on) both fully faired bikes [ZX-6] and mostly naked bikes [Z750S].

I don't really get the comment about the FZ1 not having enough wind protection in comparison to something like the VFR. If you compare it to the ST1300 or a 'Wing, yeah, sure I would get that. Otherwise I don't see a world of gain here.

Aside from that, I might as well say SV650S with some bar risers/helibars and a Zero Gravity sport touring windshield. Light weight, fully faired, all sorts of fun.

My 2 cents: narrow down the list a little bit based on the sort of power delivery you want:
torquey? V twin?
smooth as butter? I-4
power everywhere? big bore whatever

[Dan K]

The FZ1 had no lower fairings, so legs had no wind or rain protection. As a commuter, I get caught in the rain on occasion, and after riding bikes like the Sprint and K1300S in 40 degree weather, the difference between fully faired and half faired becomes painfully obvious. Hence, the switch.

-Dan

Oh, if there's performance there, i'm ok with any engine type.    

[Rabidsnipe]

Remember, I'm looking for wind protection, ergos, and will sorely miss being able to go 0-60 in less than 3 seconds.

- Dan

For a commuter bike, I personally think you're putting too much emphasis on the power requirements.  Honestly, how often were you doing full throttle runs on the FZ1?  In the short span I've had the FZ1 I don't think I've ever used full throttle.  Even when I was using the power to "get out of dodge".

[Castaway]

Yamaha Tmax.

   I sat on one of those at the IMS, seeing quite a few of them when I was in Paris got me interested. But I don't get the foot position on them.


Back on topic ... though I haven't ridden one, I've always wanted a Futura. They're hard to come by, though. I rode an 800ST some years ago and was disappointed with the power, but I do like the size, simplicity, and belt drive.

[Dan K]

For a commuter bike, I personally think you're putting too much emphasis on the power requirements.  Honestly, how often were you doing full throttle runs on the FZ1?  In the short span I've had the FZ1 I don't think I've ever used full throttle.  Even when I was using the power to "get out of dodge".

I agree - but on occasion, I will be on this bike riding with bikes like the K1330S and 1098R's and MV Agustas and other crazy fast bikes that I would like to be able to keep up with on the straights.  Not a lot of twisties here in the Chicago area where skill will get me closer.  Power not MAJOR concern, I just like having it available.  Acceleration = joy, including torque down low AND top end rush (as opposed to top end mph).

Tmax is a tickle in the back of my mind, but I have some natural aversion to automatics.  I'll check it out at the Chiacgo bike show in a couple weeks.

- Dan

[Dan K]

   I sat on one of those at the IMS, seeing quite a few of them when I was in Paris got me interested. But I don't get the foot position on them.


Back on topic ... though I haven't ridden one, I've always wanted a Futura. They're hard to come by, though. I rode an 800ST some years ago and was disappointed with the power, but I do like the size, simplicity, and belt drive.

Futura's are semi-hard to come by - for the cost, do I really want to buy unseen and ship it?  Keeping my eyes open.  The "mash" at jaxed.com is pretty unreal.

- Dan

[Rabidsnipe]

Futura's are semi-hard to come by - for the cost, do I really want to buy unseen and ship it?  Keeping my eyes open.  The "mash" at jaxed.com is pretty unreal.

- Dan

You weren't kidding!  That site is awesome!  For vehicle search purposes it seems it trounce Search Tempest.

[marsman]

Hi Dan,

My .02

Had the 01 VFR - I found that it was under powered and heavy so it never really fit the bill of sport or tourer. Wind protection was decent though.

I switched to a cruiser with the intent of doing much longer road trips but now find myself looking to sport bikes again. Cruisers just aren't engaging enough - an expensive lesson for me

If I've read your entries correctly it seems like you want an FZ1 with better wind protection. If that's the case it seems like a late nineties early 2000ish sport bike with comfy ergo's might fit the bill. That said have you considered adding a YZF1000R (pre R1) to your list? I have no personal experience with this bike but have encountered numerous folk who leverage this bike for commuter, tourer and track day squidness.

Not sure what prices are locally for a used Busa in your area but it seems that a first gen would also fit the bill (although perhaps a little on the heavy side). If you look Busa just make sure the frame is intact as I've been told that there was an engineering issue that could cause stress fractures in the frame. And if you consider the Busa then the Blackbird or the first gen ZX-12R would also be worth considering.

Again - .02

Cheers,
M

[Dan K]

Yeah, I've considered the ZX14/Busa/Blackbird route, but because it's an everyday commuter, the sheer size of the things have caused me to go more lightweight.  Are they much lighter than the Connie14 qnd FJR's?

Interesting suggestion on the older bike, but I am trying to stay a bit more modern as my wrenching skills don't go far beyond oil changes.

Am leaning Sprint, with an interst in this F800ST.  Although what about the older Ducati Multistradas?  If it's got an S (with the Ohlins) maybe that's the route to go?

- Dan

[jadziadax8]

I like the Versys, but it's not fully faired. For half faired bikes, I'd just keep the FZ1. Better ergos, better performance, just as aftermarket support  Versys probably gets better has mileage, but the main goal is a fully faired bike to compliment the naked Tuono.

-Dan

Well, I wasn't gonna suggest it until you mentioned the Versys, but I might note that the Ninja 650 (I AM participating in the great "buy my bike" tradition here) is basically a fully faired Versys.  I would suggest a suspension upgrade if you want to ride it Downtown.  How are those grate bridges, anyway?

[Dan K]

Well, I wasn't gonna suggest it until you mentioned the Versys, but I might note that the Ninja 650 (I AM participating in the great "buy my bike" tradition here) is basically a fully faired Versys.  I would suggest a suspension upgrade if you want to ride it Downtown.  How are those grate bridges, anyway?

Point and ride.  Never comfortable on those bridges, but they are few and far between on my rides...

Never even thought of the Ninja 650, but if I was going that route, are the ZX12's or ZX14's that much heavier?  I do like the power....

- Dan

[jadziadax8]

Point and ride.  Never comfortable on those bridges, but they are few and far between on my rides...

Never even thought of the Ninja 650, but if I was going that route, are the ZX12's or ZX14's that much heavier?  I do like the power....

- Dan

Well, I will say that my Ninja is no power monster, but it is great in commuter traffic.  I ride it nearly everyday on the road of death known as the I355/290 corridor (you know, if you're doing 80 you're getting passed).  I have never felt the need for more power.  Its also great in stop-and-go because of its light weight.  I get about 52 mpg.  I also have it set up for full touring and have ridden the gap and around the lakes.  Be honest, are you really gonna ever use all the power available on a ZX-12 or ZX-14?

Oh, and I don't have any trouble keeping up with Fourstring on his ZX-9.

[Dan K]

Well, I will say that my Ninja is no power monster, but it is great in commuter traffic.  I ride it nearly everyday on the road of death known as the I355/290 corridor (you know, if you're doing 80 you're getting passed).  I have never felt the need for more power.  Its also great in stop-and-go because of its light weight.  I get about 52 mpg.  I also have it set up for full touring and have ridden the gap and around the lakes.  Be honest, are you really gonna ever use all the power available on a ZX-12 or ZX-14?

Oh, and I don't have any trouble keeping up with Fourstring on his ZX-9.

You got pics of your Ninja?

I'm interested.  Yes I'm familiar with your commute - I'm in Northbrook so it's Edens to Kennedy to downtown.  I usually take 90 to 294N on the way home (I'm in between the two just north of Willow).  Whatever it takes to get another therapy session in on the bike.

As for the power, yes, I do go on some "spirited" rides where the power will come in handy....I ride with guys that have multiple bikes, like Desmosedici's and 1098R's and MV Agustas and Benelli's and Aprilias and the FZ1 had no problem keeping up, or sometimes leaving them behind.  Being more limited in the funds, my options are more limited, but I don't want to lose too much performance...

- Dan.  

[marsman]

Hey Dan,

The Blackbird/ZX-12R carry like the VFR but with alot more power. My only description for the Busa is that of having thrown a leg over a Rhino and letting it out of the cage - it's a brute that you never have to take past 3rd gear when you're in town. My time aboard that beast was amazing and I honestly found it easier to flick around compared to my VFR (but that's probably just my riding style).

If you're planning to stay in the sub-500 lb. range dry (aka your FZ1) with wind protection via a full fairing then I would seriously consider looking at the FZR600R (pre R6) that Yamaha was still producing in NA up till 2008/9 as far as I know. Locally there are lots of folks that use them for touring and commuting. This was Yamaha's flagship 600 before the R6 came along and it still has impressive #'s in terms of power/performance but the ergo's are alot more upright when compared to the latest batch of 600 sport bikes.

Cheers

[jadziadax8]

You got pics of your Ninja?

I'm interested.  Yes I'm familiar with your commute - I'm in Northbrook so it's Edens to Kennedy to downtown.  I usually take 90 to 294N on the way home (I'm in between the two just north of Willow).  Whatever it takes to get another therapy session in on the bike.

As for the power, yes, I do go on some "spirited" rides where the power will come in handy....I ride with guys that have multiple bikes, like Desmosedici's and 1098R's and MV Agustas and Benelli's and Aprilias and the FZ1 had no problem keeping up, or sometimes leaving them behind.  Being more limited in the funds, my options are more limited, but I don't want to lose too much performance...

- Dan.  

Well, take the Tuono for those!  I ride with the usual R4 crowd of F.U.C.K.E.R.S.  They're pretty fast.  I have no trouble keeping up.

Mandatory pic of setup.  Here's me on the Gap.  As you can see, it has no trouble hauling me and my gear anywhere.

[Tpoppa]

The 2004-2006 CBR600 F4i is probably the most comfortable 600cc sportbike you can buy.  The ergos are close to the 6th gen VFR, but compared to the VFR, it's lighter, faster, and has fully adjustable suspension.  Also, Convertibars are available for the F4i.


Stock clipons have a nice rise over the seat:

[Dan K]

Nice set up.  Covers my bases.  You have risers of some sort or Helibars?  Can't tell in pic.  And yes, I hear ya, take the Tuono.

Only reason I'm resistant to the lower powered bikes is that I can see myself selling the Tuono and buying a side car rig to haul my kids around in, leaving me with a sports commuter/tourer a little lacking in the power depot.

But that pic is VERY interesting.


As for the CBR, He Who Loves his Donkeyballs had full bag set up on the CBR with helibars, and for some reason it didn't fly - I don't think he ever posted why, if he did, I can't remember.  

I'm leaning Sprint again.

- Dan

[Tpoppa]

As for the CBR, He Who Loves his Donkeyballs had full bag set up on the CBR with helibars, and for some reason it didn't fly - I don't think he ever posted why, if he did, I can't remember.  

- Dan

I've done 500 miles days with the stock clipons in relative comfort.  The pre-04 F4i had a more aggressive riding position.  YMMV.

[PVS]

Nice set up.  Covers my bases.  You have risers of some sort or Helibars?  Can't tell in pic.  And yes, I hear ya, take the Tuono.

Only reason I'm resistant to the lower powered bikes is that I can see myself selling the Tuono and buying a side car rig to haul my kids around in, leaving me with a sports commuter/tourer a little lacking in the power depot.

But that pic is VERY interesting.


As for the CBR, He Who Loves his Donkeyballs had full bag set up on the CBR with helibars, and for some reason it didn't fly - I don't think he ever posted why, if he did, I can't remember.  

I'm leaning Sprint again.

- Dan

You need a mid-80's honda shadow, 1100cc, with Mephis shades for plastic.   Just my .02  

[sagerat]

Only reason I'm resistant to the lower powered bikes is that I can see myself selling the Tuono and buying a side car rig to haul my kids around in, leaving me with a sports commuter/tourer a little lacking in the power depot.

You'll be amazed how much you'll take the hack.  While there has been a parade of bikes through my garage in the last decade (CB 750F Supersport, Viffer, R1150GS, R90, Moto Guzzi Breva 1100, KLR) the Ural has never been endangered.  I'd simply never sell the Ural, it's that much fun.  

[Dan K]

You need a mid-80's honda shadow, 1100cc, with Mephis shades for plastic.   Just my .02  

Paulile, if you may recall, I got back into riding with the 86 Shadow VT700C - you still have that old 1100 in pieces in your garage?

- Dan

[jadziadax8]

Nice set up.  Covers my bases.  You have risers of some sort or Helibars?  Can't tell in pic.  And yes, I hear ya, take the Tuono.

The 650 has standard ergos.  No risers necessary.  People did complain about the 1st gen handlebars feeling weird, but I think they're fine.

Only reason I'm resistant to the lower powered bikes is that I can see myself selling the Tuono and buying a side car rig to haul my kids around in, leaving me with a sports commuter/tourer a little lacking in the power depot.

Now you tell us!

But that pic is VERY interesting.

I won't lie and say it'll keep up with a 1098, but it's no slouch.  BTW, I'm seeing leftover '09s going for $5500 in the area.

[Dan K]

I won't lie and say it'll keep up with a 1098, but it's no slouch.  BTW, I'm seeing leftover '09s going for $5500 in the area.

That's cheap for a new sportbike.  Not even a lot of changes between the '09 and '10 year, is there?

- Dan

[jadziadax8]

That's cheap for a new sportbike.  Not even a lot of changes between the '09 and '10 year, is there?

It's marketed as a step up from the Ninja 250.  It's a standard, not a sport bike, so don't think it competes in the 600 RR class.  The '09 model year had significant changes (many cosmetic) over the 1st generation of the bike.  I don't believe there is any appreciable difference between the '09 and '10 model years.  '10 specs.

[Dan K]

Just checked out the 650R.  Thast is a nice looking bike, and I see it is a sporty version of the Versys (adventure) and ER6-N (naked).  It's a possibility.

$5500 for a brand new one? What's MSRP?

Not too many "standards" have full fairing - usually they are more similar to the FZ1 or Z1000.

- Dan

[PVS]

Paulile, if you may recall, I got back into riding with the 86 Shadow VT700C - you still have that old 1100 in pieces in your garage?

- Dan

I do, make me an offer and I'll go looking for an appropriate sized box.  

[Dan K]

I do, make me an offer and I'll go looking for an appropriate sized box.  

Give it to Chris - maybe he can put it back together... IF I can find a deal on a Sprint, I'm still on that program, tho drifting back to the ZZR....wow.

- Dan

[jfurf]

The F800S, by contrast, was only sold for one model year and sold about as well as ham sandwiches at the Oslo Accords.

I had to think about this one for a minute, but..... GENIUS.

(My first thought was "why wouldn't want they a ham sandwich at one of those global warming conferences?)  

[PVS]

Give it to Chris - maybe he can put it back together... IF I can find a deal on a Sprint, I'm still on that program, tho drifting back to the ZZR....wow.

- Dan

Chris is the one who got it into pieces.  

Good luck on your bike search.   You can hardly go wrong no matter what bike you choose.

[chornbe]

Chris is the one who got it into pieces.  

Good luck on your bike search.   You can hardly go wrong no matter what bike you choose.

 

[Dan K]

 

Methinks Chris doesn't agree.

ANyway, thanks, I'll figure something out.  Futura, Sprint, maybe ZZR1200....maybe VFR if it's right.  Who knows.

Need to leave work and go home and figure it out.

- Dan

[jadziadax8]

Just checked out the 650R.  Thast is a nice looking bike, and I see it is a sporty version of the Versys (adventure) and ER6-N (naked).  It's a possibility.

$5500 for a brand new one? What's MSRP?

Not too many "standards" have full fairing - usually they are more similar to the FZ1 or Z1000.

IIRC MSRP new is $7100 for '10.

The ergos are all standard.  You sit up and beg.

If this is getting dull for everyone else concerned, you can PM me an additional questions you have.  You'd also be free to come over for a test ride (though I'm not implying it's for sale).  Fair warning - it's been winterized.

[Dan K]

IIRC MSRP new is $7100 for '10.

The ergos are all standard.  You sit up and beg.

If this is getting dull for everyone else concerned, you can PM me an additional questions you have.  You'd also be free to come over for a test ride (though I'm not implying it's for sale).  Fair warning - it's been winterized.

May take you up on it, but it's freaking cold out right now.

I am going to do some research and digging tonight, to follow up this conversation with PM's.  Reason I said no to Versys was no fairing. This is a faired Versys with the same ergos as my old FZ1.  Interest peaked.

- Dan

[Rabidsnipe]

May take you up on it, but it's freaking cold out right now.

I am going to do some research and digging tonight, to follow up this conversation with PM's.  Reason I said no to Versys was no fairing. This is a faired Versys with the same ergos as my old FZ1.  Interest peaked.

- Dan

There are differences however.  Versys = better suspension, more fuel, more weight.  Aren't the levers on a Versys adjustable as well?

Having owned an FZ1 (1st gen), VFR (6th gen), and spent a decent amount of time demoing the 650R, unless you are really adamant about getting less weight, VFR > 650R.  VFR has better suspension, better brakes, (IMHO) better motor, center stand, more fuel, all for about 90 pounds more (VFR wet weight=540, 650R curb weight=450).  You can pick up lightly used 6th gen VFRs for about the same money as a new 650R.  And if you look not that hard, you can probably find a brand new one within your (expanded) budget.

[jadziadax8]

There are differences however.  Versys = better suspension, more fuel, more weight.  Aren't the levers on a Versys adjustable as well?

That's mostly true.  I did suggest a suspension upgrade.  You can't do much about the tank size.  The levers are adjustable on the Ninja as well.

[Rabidsnipe]

Thanks for clarifying.  I wasn't certain.

[Dan K]

Took a look at the 650R in person last night. Not bad, but it didn't talk to me.  Sat on some other bikes - Gen 2 FZ1, BUsa, ZX14, GF650 Suzuki (i think that's what it was called...)

I actually liked the feel of the Busa and ZX14 A LOT.  I expected both to be and feel much bigger.

Now I have no clue what to do.  I need some non-work time on the net to do some more research.  Has me back on the ZZR path.

- Dan

[redmille]

Dan,  I would have to push you towards the ZX14 or a Blackbird.  You and I have spoke about this before and I was real close to buying a ZX14 myself, but instead bought another blackbird like I had once before owned.  I personally love the blackbird and the ZX14 is basically an updated version of a Blackbird which I would have bought if it weren't for the cost difference.  You coming off of an FZ1 just as I still own as well, I don't think you would be happy with any of the bikes you mentioned besides the Futura.  And you've already got one Rotax, so something different would be nice.  I owned an 03 VFR and was always looking for more torgue, have ridden an 09 sprint and hoped for much more from that bike but was very unimpressed.  Ride one of the three big Hyper sport bikes and I would guess you will be sold.  But, I think you'll find nothing was as comfy as the FZ1 with the respective HP.  Just my .02  Good luck.

[Orson]

Only reason I'm resistant to the lower powered bikes is that I can see myself selling the Tuono and buying a side car rig to haul my kids around in, leaving me with a sports commuter/tourer a little lacking in the power depot.

I borrowed a 49 hp Guzzi V7 for a day, and had a whale of a time flinging it thru the twisties  

there's a lotta merit to the "Ride a slow bike fast" adage  

I wouldn't want one as my only bike though  

[chornbe]

May take you up on it, but it's freaking cold out right now.

I am going to do some research and digging tonight, to follow up this conversation with PM's.  Reason I said no to Versys was no fairing. This is a faired Versys with the same ergos as my old FZ1.  Interest peaked.

- Dan

FWIW, if the ER6n or the Ninja 650R had better 2-up accommodations, I'd have probably bagged the Ulie and gone with one of them. I like everything about those bikes, but they're just not built with 2-up in mind. I could see me... dare I say this... ditching the Sportster and replacing it with an ER6n. There... I said it.  

[JonS]

Took a look at the 650R in person last night. Not bad, but it didn't talk to me.  Sat on some other bikes - Gen 2 FZ1, BUsa, ZX14, GF650 Suzuki (i think that's what it was called...)

I actually liked the feel of the Busa and ZX14 A LOT.  I expected both to be and feel much bigger.

Now I have no clue what to do.  I need some non-work time on the net to do some more research.  Has me back on the ZZR path.

- Dan

http://www.zzrbikes.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=37659

You can get out of the winter weather too.

[jadziadax8]

Took a look at the 650R in person last night. Not bad, but it didn't talk to me.

That's 'cause what you say you want and what you actually want are 2 different things.

[Dan K]

OK, I am now pretty much lokoing at XX, ZX14 (need to confirm if there is a heat issue when stuck in traffic - if you know, let me know!), Futura or ZZR1200.  ZX14's may be a bit pricey...haven't really looked, but 14 is my lucky number!  I guess I'd consider the Busa, but not sure what they cost or if it can properly be converted into a commuter/tourer.

VFR is out as lacking in power, as are the 650's (unless a perfectly modded VFR lands in my lap at a cheap price, locally).

Cleanest purchase would be the ZZR, semi-local, bike looks super clean, warm fuzzies from the seller.  I would prefer fuel injection and some more features in the dash, but the bike is very nice and has more than enough power.

I found a nice '03 Fuel injected XX with beetle bags (scratched up a bit) and a couple scratches on the mirrors, but at a fair price. Need to see about replacing those mirrors...

I'm also communicating with a guy in NY about a Futura, but he hasn't been too responsive.  I may hold on for a deal on the Futura, since I love Aprilia's and see myself selling the Tuono one day, but I find myself really lusting after the power of these other hypersports, especially since this entire bike change was inspired by a few rides on a K1300S.

Internet was down at the hosue last night, got it back up sans router this morning and will dig in tonight.  I have more pics from the XX guy, and I'm not happy about the scratches.  

- Dan

[Dan K]

That's 'cause what you say you want and what you actually want are 2 different things.

Yeah, I'm pretty much screwing the light weight since I want power.  I guess I can't rule out the Gen2 FZ1 with lowers and bags, but I can't figure out how to buy them...Gen2 FZ1'a are inexpensive too...

- Dan

[chornbe]

Yeah, I'm pretty much screwing the light weight since I want power.  I guess I can't rule out the Gen2 FZ1 with lowers and bags, but I can't figure out how to buy them...Gen2 FZ1'a are inexpensive too...

- Dan

Talk to R Doug. He had a Gen-II with givi V35 bags and racks and it was a sweet looking kit on that bike.

[HipGnosis]

Just to stir the pot (it's a winter past time)...

There's talk on the Kawi forums of a 800R in 2011.

I'll definitely be looking for it and comparing it to the FZ8.   The fairing on the 650R doesn't give that much weather protection, so I think the half-faired FZ8 would be a close match.

As someone that use to ride a Sprint 955 RS (and still miss it occasionally), I can say the 650R is VERY light.  It's power isn't all that great, but it's got real good power-to-weight.

[Dan K]

Talk to R Doug. He had a Gen-II with givi V35 bags and racks and it was a sweet looking kit on that bike.

I did.  He told me why he sold it (issues that likely could have been sorted).  BUT - I still can't figure out where to buy the lower fairings.  Bags are no sweat.  He had Givi badged FJR bags on the sides, plus a Givi topcase that looked great, but I need fairings and wind protection for the rain and cold.  I am a commuter when it's dry and 40+ (without all the salt...)

- Dan

[redmille]

Dan, if you really like the k1300s I think you'd love the zx14 or XX.  the 1999 to 2003 XX are basically the same aside from color, you should be able to find a nice one for 4k-5K, I've seen 06 zx14's going for around 6K and they do have suspension and a bit more power advantage over the XX.  Both bikes are as smooth as it gets as far as motor vibes, both are very electric motor like.  The performance and fit/finish of both bikes will impress.  The same bags that Doug R had on his FZ1 are available for the ZX14 and you can buy factory bags for the XX from the UK.

[Norwegian Blue]

Seems to me that with your new criteria you may have just put the BMW K1200S back into play. There are two for sale just on either side of $9k on Chicago's Craigslist. I've seen them for under $8K with higher miles.....

[Dan K]

Tempted to search now, but it's bad enough I keep responding to this place while at work.

I found a decent XX with corbin beatle bags for a good price, and have yet to look for ZX14's.  Not sure what advantage the ZX14's would have over the ZZR1200, which motorwise apparently also has advantages (i.e. more power) over the XX.

No one is suggesting a Busa?  

- Dan

[chornbe]

No one is suggesting a Busa?  

- Dan

I'll even help deliver it.  

[Dan K]

I'll even help deliver it.  

$7k is too rich - I'd rather hold on a few months and buy a K1200S with that ESA (I love that...).  And the suspension is set up for a tank, not a 170lbs rider like me...and I haven't even researched out Busas yet.  I'll bet there's cheaper ones in my backyard, although it's so kind of you to offer to ride it to Chicago!

I need one night to research - literally, it's now Pete's ZZR1200, ZX14, XX, Futura, Sprint, or Busa (in no particular order).  Altho if I can find a source of lowers for Gen2 FZ1, I may just do that.  I can't believe how much bike you can get for so little $$$.

If no good deals fall in my lap, I have a line on the ZZR and the XX already in my range.  Still like the Sprint, and yes, I have a kick ass Triumph dealer about a 40 minute ride away that will pick up bikes for service.  

- Dan

And what happened to donkey balls? Oh, looks like ZX14 has strike as heavier than Busa or XX, but honestly, good deals trump weight.

[chornbe]

There's enough discussion about weight going on around here. Weight isn't evil unless its excessive. Question becomes what do *you* think is excessive? 775lbs felt just about right on my 'Glide, 400lbs felt just about right on my CBR. There's no global, universal answer.

Weight combined with poor geometry will make a bike feel lazy, cumbersome and like far too much work. Good geometry will make a heavy bike feel lighter in the turns, but over time you'll feel the weight. The biggest argument against excessive weight is in-turn dynamics. People like to talk about correcting lines. For me it was not that at all... I never had any of these "drama" moments in turns where adjustments were necessary. Every bike I've spent enough time on to get to know... and adjust to my liking... just worked. No, for me it was traction management. I rode that ~800lb monster like an animal on dry streets and like a little weepy girl on wet streets. Crashing 800lbs of iron on a wet road will do that to you.

But there's more... Shitty ergos will make a bike feel like work to ride. Run 600 miles of mixed roads on an RR bike then do it on an FJR or ST1300 or your Tuono or the FZ1. You already know what that'll feel like, don't you? I believe you've ridden some pretty aggressive bikes. If I get off a bike after a couple of hours an I'm hurting (not just body-static aching, I mean real pain), then fuck it... the bike doesn't work for me. Nearly any RR bike and EVERY cruiser makes me feel like that. Standards and mild-lean ST type bikes...  

It's more than just weight... it's a total package. You've mentioned some bikes that are drastically different than some others. Personally, I wouldn't *choose* to do more than a couple hundred miles on a Busa, ZZR, ZX and the like without ergo adjustments, unless those couple of hundred miles were 100% non-stop twisties. But seriously... I don't care where you live... that's simply never the case.

[Crackedpot]

I've found jaxed.com, using "the mash" will find you every bike on craigslist and ebay by make and model.  Kind of cool way to gauge the market.

Wow, this is awesome!

[Dan K]

There's enough discussion about weight going on around here. Weight isn't evil unless its excessive. Question becomes what do *you* think is excessive? 775lbs felt just about right on my 'Glide, 400lbs felt just about right on my CBR. There's no global, universal answer.

Weight combined with poor geometry will make a bike feel lazy, cumbersome and like far too much work. Good geometry will make a heavy bike feel lighter in the turns, but over time you'll feel the weight. The biggest argument against excessive weight is in-turn dynamics. People like to talk about correcting lines. For me it was not that at all... I never had any of these "drama" moments in turns where adjustments were necessary. Every bike I've spent enough time on to get to know... and adjust to my liking... just worked. No, for me it was traction management. I rode that ~800lb monster like an animal on dry streets and like a little weepy girl on wet streets. Crashing 800lbs of iron on a wet road will do that to you.

But there's more... Shitty ergos will make a bike feel like work to ride. Run 600 miles of mixed roads on an RR bike then do it on an FJR or ST1300 or your Tuono or the FZ1. You already know what that'll feel like, don't you? I believe you've ridden some pretty aggressive bikes. If I get off a bike after a couple of hours an I'm hurting (not just body-static aching, I mean real pain), then fuck it... the bike doesn't work for me. Nearly any RR bike and EVERY cruiser makes me feel like that. Standards and mild-lean ST type bikes...  

It's more than just weight... it's a total package. You've mentioned some bikes that are drastically different than some others. Personally, I wouldn't *choose* to do more than a couple hundred miles on a Busa, ZZR, ZX and the like without ergo adjustments, unless those couple of hundred miles were 100% non-stop twisties. But seriously... I don't care where you live... that's simply never the case.

I agree, He With Many Names.  Standards and St's are the only way I'm going, assuming these hyperbikes can be considered ST's - more ST's than RR"s, that's for sure.  Depending on how the next bike feels, I will likely make some changes - bar risers and peg lowering.  There are barely any twisties out here, some decent ones I ride in Michigan, but mostly my prime local riding is switchback sweepers with all the time in the world to lean from side to side (Blue Star highway in MI....nothing twisty, just 'curvy' I think... which is why I am not shying away from ZZR's and XX's. Heavy, but good packages.  At the same time, that's why I'm still possibly looking at Futuras and Sprints, in the event I can find a deal.

Leaving work, bowling with my old man, than heading home to do some research.  Looks like from a quick Jaxed search that ZX14's are off the table, there's a couple XX's that look nice.  Busas, well, probably not worth the insurance angle with the amount of riding I do and the fact that I'll always have (I hope) at least 2 bikes in the garage.  The ZZR is likely WAY better on the insurance.  And there's always the Gen2 FZ1 - kick ass performance, comfortable as hell, INEXPENSIVE and ready to be bagged up.  Just can't find lower fairings.

- Dan

[Ack535]

Dan:

Insurance is also a consideration. I have a friend who was going to purchase a new K1300S and found the insurance was too cost prohibitave for what the bike gave him. He ended up going with the K1300GT instead.

Your Busa's and ZX14's are also quite expensive as well...

Luckily, bikes like the VFR, ZZR, FZ1's are considered more sport touring, and the cost is less to insure.

Pete

[Dan K]

Another reason you may be getting a call from me shortly, Pete - just need some heavy computer time to dig and convince myself of what I'm doing.

 -Dan

[Big D]

Hypersport-Touring, you know you want to!

[Dan K]

Hypersport-Touring, you know you want to!

 


Just found a source for lowers on Gen2 FZ1's, color matched, for just under $500....unless a deal falls in my lap, I think I'm waiting for my March 12 annual ride where I will be able to hop back and forth between a Sprint and an FZ1 (and an S1000r, a 1198, a K1300S, and a Monster 1100).

Maybe I can to do some more riding first...ARGH!

- Dan

[Rabidsnipe]

What was stopping you from putting lowers on the gen 1 you just sold?

[Dan K]

What was stopping you from putting lowers on the gen 1 you just sold?

I surveyed some Gen1 owners with lowers and the consensus was they didn't provide any weather protection.  An exercise in futility is what I was told - purely cosmetic.  I guess I should survey some more Gen2 owners...

- Dan

edit - posted a new thread at fz1oa.com to find out.

[marsman]

Dan,

For questions/answers on the Busa I would start here - http://www.hayabusa.org/ - I'm in the market myself and beyond the potential insurance issue (some folks seem to get great rates for these bikes although I still haven't found anyone here in Canada that I can get a reasonable rate from) I'm still looking at one for myself - that or the XX. I hear too many problems with heat around the legs on the ZX.

Good luck with the search!

Cheers,
M

[JonS]

I'm sure you remember this.


I was looking on eBay yesterday and there were a couple of FZ1 2008s for just about $5000.
Seems like the way I would go if I was in the market. I even checked out the one from Texas to see how far away it was.

[Dan K]

I'm sure you remember this.


I was looking on eBay yesterday and there were a couple of FZ1 2008s for just about $5000.
Seems like the way I would go if I was in the market. I even checked out the one from Texas to see how far away it was.

I'm still drooling over that ZX14...but is it hot in traffic?  Maybe I'll keep saving...wow, that bike is hot.

AS IS the FZ1 above.  Initial response is that Gen2 FZ1 lowers are effective at blocking wind, etc.

Decisions...

- Dan

[Big D]

The ZX definitely kicks out some heat, enough to be annoying at times. There are a couple fixes that are supposed to really help a lot. The number one is removing the cat from the header, either via amputation or with a full exhaust system, then some people do a jet hot/ceramic coating or heat wrap. Another one for about $50 is to add a second fan to the radiator. Also switching to water wetter, synthetic oil, and getting a few miles on the bike are all supposed to help.  I will be doing one or more this spring to try and improve the issue. Other than that, it is a truly awesome ride.

[redmille]

Dan, you've gotta get some test rides in!  A lot of bikes look good on paper, but just don't fit the bill once you ride them and all of our opinions are only as good as the best smelling, well you know what I mean.    I write this as I am drinking a few beers and changing the oil on my XX.  

[jadziadax8]

Dan, you've gotta get some test rides in!  A lot of bikes look good on paper, but just don't fit the bill once you ride them and all of our opinions are only as good as the best smelling, well you know what I mean.    I write this as I am drinking a few beers and changing the oil on my XX.  

Unfortunately, it's Chicago in the winter.  Test rides are pipe dreams.

Dan, if you're still thinking about a Sprint, MCC in Villa Park hosts Triumph Demo Days every year in late May/early June.  It's great fun.  You have to watch their site, because they actually minimize advertising to keep the squids out.

[Dan K]

Unfortunately, it's Chicago in the winter.  Test rides are pipe dreams.

Dan, if you're still thinking about a Sprint, MCC in Villa Park hosts Triumph Demo Days every year in late May/early June.  It's great fun.  You have to watch their site, because they actually minimize advertising to keep the squids out.

In March, I'm going for a ride with 6 other guys, and 1 will have an FZ1 (new) and one will have an '09 Sprint.  I'll get lots of saddle time on both.  Maybe I'll wait until then.  Don't want to get a bike that looks good on paper but is no fun to ride.

- Dan

[rgbeard]

I have an idea.  How about a 1985 GL-1200.  The blue ones are, of course, the best.

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,47303.0.html

Just think how much change you'll have leftover for gas.  

[redmille]

In March, I'm going for a ride with 6 other guys, and 1 will have an FZ1 (new) and one will have an '09 Sprint.  I'll get lots of saddle time on both.  Maybe I'll wait until then.  Don't want to get a bike that looks good on paper but is no fun to ride.

- Dan

That's exactly how I felt about the 09 sprint I rode, I liked the look and the Idea of the Triumph, but I liked nothing about it after I rode one.  Make sure you run that sprint over 90mph so you can watch the windscreen break down and the mirrors start vibrating all over the place!  Very unsettling!  

[nomagnashn]

That's exactly how I felt about the 09 sprint I rode, I liked the look and the Idea of the Triumph, but I liked nothing about it after I rode one.  Make sure you run that sprint over 90mph so you can watch the windscreen break down and the mirrors start vibrating all over the place!  Very unsettling!  

Interesting.  What was wrong with the one you rode?  I've never heard of this problem before.  Mine's smooth as glass all the way up to 130+.

[redmille]

The owner claimed it was a common problem with them, he mentioned that some people add some kind of support across the top of the shield.  After I wrote that last post I thought it might come across as Sprint bashing, and that's not my intent.  The bike just simply did nothing for me, but that's why we have so many options out there.  

[Craigart14]

Just for the hell of it, I'll mention the Honda CBR100f.  Fast (165 mph top end), smooth, powerful (125 hp), comfy, good brakes, good weather protection if you upgrade the screen.  Cheap, can often be found with very low mileage.  A tad heavy compared to new bikes, but no more than a Busa.

Craig

[GilaMonster]

Ok, I guess I have to be the designated K12S advocate.  Before you make a decision, ride one. It's fast, comfortable, and reliable.  If budget still gets in the way, take a look at '03-04 K12RS or GT.  It's the flying brick motor, and a hundred pounds heavier, but still a great ride.  BTW, I had an '03RS, then '04GT, and now an '06 K12S.

IMHO BMW suspension is not the greatest for knee dragging, but it is spectacular for diverse roads.

I'm with Dairyland, and my insurance is $150/yr for full coverage.

[Squareman357]

Another +1 for a hypersport tourer/commuter...





You're welcome to a test ride if you haven't made any moves yet.  I'm on the south side, and if you bring something for me to ride along with, I'll throw the bags on, and we can go for a ride.  It's wired already, so if you've got some heated gear and the right connectors you can plug right in!  Yes, she puts out a bit of heat on really hot days, but with the exhaust mods mentioned, coating the headers, and water wetter, etc., it can be made manageable.  The '08s have better heat management inserts in the fairings than the '06 and '07s did, but those parts are just foam cutouts and fully interchangeable.  The heat doesn't bother me that much unless I'm trapped in bumper to bumper traffic, in which case I usually split and the heat dissipates rapidly.  I love it!  

[redmille]

I love the 14's with the Givi Set up.  Very nice.

[LoVel]

The owner claimed it was a common problem with them, he mentioned that some people add some kind of support across the top of the shield.  After I wrote that last post I thought it might come across as Sprint bashing, and that's not my intent.  The bike just simply did nothing for me, but that's why we have so many options out there.  

That sounds like BS to me.  I had mine up to 149mph(that's what the speedo said) with no problem.  

[MadOzodi]

The more plastic pieces you have, the greater the chance of rattling.  Except for the seat and an annoying cowl vibe/rattle @ ~4k rpms, I really liked my buddy's '08 FZ1.  But the desire for a full fairing/more protection steered me away so I understand Dan K's search.  

Hypersport Tourer ZX14/Busa with converti-bars would be awesome if only I could afford the insurance.

[redmille]

That sounds like BS to me.  I had mine up to 149mph(that's what the speedo said) with no problem.  

I have no reason BS anybody about it, just saying what I experianced and the owner said ya it's kinda crazy, some guy's do blah, blah to fix it.  Glad yours dosen't do it I guess.

[LoVel]

I was talking about the owners comment to you.  I owned an 06 for 3 years and spent a lot of time on a Triumph web site.  Never heard of this problem.

[redmille]

and that may very well be it, maybe he has an issue and hasn't truely looked into it.  I just remember thinking, what the hell is wrong with this thing and he acknowledged it and had mentioned others experiancing it as well.  Ok, Hijack over.

[LoVel]

Here is a reply of little or no help.

I loved my Sprint.

I love my VFR.

Ergos are a little tighter on the VFR.  I raised the bars 3/4 an inch and lowered the pegs 3/4 of an inch and then the Sprint was a little tighter than the VFR.

Sprint has more torque at low RPMs

VFR takes off at about 7000 rpms but doesn't red line til 12000 plus.

I have ridden both of them to Vermont and back to Alabama and ridden both of them to work on a daily basis.  

I'm hard pressed to pick a favorite.  

 

[Dan K]

Square - I will take you up on that when it's not blizzarding!

I loved the K1300S so I am assuming I will love the ZX14.  The heat issue worries my, but not much.  

As for the Sprint v. VFR comments, sounds like they are similar in ergos, Triumph has torque, VFR has top end.  I like torque...we'll see.  That touring FZ1 on page 5 is just hot (as is that ZX above it).  If only money grew on trees.

- Dan

Another +1 for a hypersport tourer/commuter...





You're welcome to a test ride if you haven't made any moves yet.  I'm on the south side, and if you bring something for me to ride along with, I'll throw the bags on, and we can go for a ride.  It's wired already, so if you've got some heated gear and the right connectors you can plug right in!  Yes, she puts out a bit of heat on really hot days, but with the exhaust mods mentioned, coating the headers, and water wetter, etc., it can be made manageable.  The '08s have better heat management inserts in the fairings than the '06 and '07s did, but those parts are just foam cutouts and fully interchangeable.  The heat doesn't bother me that much unless I'm trapped in bumper to bumper traffic, in which case I usually split and the heat dissipates rapidly.  I love it!  

[2heavy]

I am sold on switching over to a 14 from my 600R Yamaha for the commute and trips. Rode the 14 several times and it is an awesome overall street bike.

[Dan K]

Going to Florida in a week or two for 5 days with my inlaws...I traditionally rent a motorcycle while down there, just for a day.  This year I am going 30 minutes south to Miami to get a sport bike.  No Ducatis, no MV's (already rented) so I got me  Busa for the day.  CANNOT WAIT!!!  THERAPY!!  So on 2/27, I'll be terrorizing Florida between Miami and West Palm Beach....not a lot of twisties down there, but I'll find something.  Need to visit family in West Palm.  Maybe I'll stop there for lunch.

- Dan

[redmille]

That just may become an expensive rental.  You'll be addicted to the power afterwards!  Enjoy!

[Dan K]

I keep thinking, why buy anything short of what I want?  I have the Tuono, and while it's not the best rig, I can put the topcase on it for the work commute....just hold off and save, save, save.  Then buy whatever.  (I won't ever finance a bike...especially not when I can't/won't ride it for 4-5 months a year in Chicago.  

I don't see a Busa in my future, even if I love it, but maybe a K1200S or newer Sprint ABS.  WHO KNOWS!!!! BUYING A BIKE IS TORTURE!  I just wanna ride...

- Dan

[Dan K]

Did some checking on the insurance....Busas and ZX14's are expensive - $700+ per year - and ZZR1200 ad K1200S is not far behind.

Futuras and Sprints are best of the bikes on my list, with VFR's just a bit more expensive.

I may pull the trigger on a Futura....we'll see.  I should just wait until 3/12 when I'll get time on the new FZ1 and the Sprint.  We'll see how the Busa spoils my on 2/27...

- Dan

[redmille]

When I looked at buying a ZX14, insurance through State farm was only around $300.00 a year.  Full coverage, 100/300 if I remember correctly.

[denisep]

I pay $500/yr  for the baby Z (which is listed as a sports tourer)...  probably cause i'm a GIRL !!

[LoVel]

Futuras and Sprints are best of the bikes on my list, with VFR's just a bit more expensive.

That is one I don't understand.  I guess the insurance industry takes advantage of Honda classifying the VFR as a sport bike.  It blows me away that an 781cc(VFR) bike costs more to insure than a 1050(sprint).

[sammyseaman]

When I looked at buying a ZX14, insurance through State farm was only around $300.00 a year.  Full coverage, 100/300 if I remember correctly.

Age, driving record, location and different insurance companies all factor into it.

[Squareman357]

Age, driving record, location and different insurance companies all factor into it.

Yup.  Age I'm good, driving record and credit I'm good, but my location (in Chicago proper) causes my insurance to be up there.  Gotta pay to play.

[Ack535]

Hey Dan, you are torturing yourself! Ask yourself one simple question (and be honest). That question should be. What bike do I really want?

Once you answer that question in your own mind, go after the bike you really want. Hell, your only young once... Fifty years from now, you don't want to be sitting in a rocking chair telling your great grandkids about the bike you wished you would have owned, but never did...

Best wishes,

Pete

[Big D]

Which bike gives you wood?

[Dan K]

I want them all!  I'm in. Chicago, so that may be affecting the insurance.

Get the one I want. Here's the thing. I've been driving my car forever and it just blew a head gasket. Time to buy a new car. Last weekend, just discovered mold in my attic, likely need to replace some sheething, which means partial tear off roof. May come out of my pocket, not sure yet.

Wife gates bikes. I can't dig into family cash with these expenses coming up, even for just a few grand, to buy a bike. Doesn't feel right. I'm 37, there will be more bikes in my future, and the problem is I haven't ridden many of the bikes on the list.

If I find a Futura that fits the bill , I'll likely buy it. What do I really want? K1300S or new Multistrada. But I won't be happy with myself if I buy either with the expenses about to come down the pipe. What will I buy?  F*** if I know!



-Dan

[JonS]

I want them all!  I'm in. Chicago, so that may be affecting the insurance.

Get the one I want. Here's the thing. I've been driving my car forever and it just blew a head gasket. Time to buy a new car. Last weekend, just discovered mold in my attic, likely need to replace some sheething, which means partial tear off roof. May come out of my pocket, not sure yet.

Wife gates bikes. I can't dig into family cash with these expenses coming up, even for just a few grand, to buy a bike. Doesn't feel right. I'm 37, there will be more bikes in my future, and the problem is I haven't ridden many of the bikes on the list.

If I find a Futura that fits the bill , I'll likely buy it. What do I really want? K1300S or new Multistrada. But I won't be happy with myself if I buy either with the expenses about to come down the pipe. What will I buy?  F*** if I know!



Well, with the Tuono, you are hardly in dire straits, as you mentioned. I love those things. In fact, I would have one, except I wanted a little more wind protection when I was shopping.

-Dan

[Ceolwulf]

Did some checking on the insurance....Busas and ZX14's are expensive - $700+ per year - and ZZR1200 ad K1200S is not far behind.

I pay $1400/yr for my old CBR600 here in communist Manitoba $700 for a 'busa is cheap

[Dan K]

I pay $1400/yr for my old CBR600 here in communist Manitoba $700 for a 'busa is cheap

You need to shop around - there must be better rates available...that's just insane.  Or lower your coverage.

Wow.

- Dan

[Ceolwulf]

Government monopoly.  They are not allowed to have competition, and we are required to purchase from them.  And they don't like bikes.

[ride200mi]

I really like mine, however it could be a bit more reliable in the electrics department....
It feels light (like a 600) and has great power (for a V-twin).... I REALLY wish Aprilia still made these.... But with a new electrics system and a V-4.....

[nomagnashn]

I want them all!  I'm in. Chicago, so that may be affecting the insurance.

Get the one I want. Here's the thing. I've been driving my car forever and it just blew a head gasket. Time to buy a new car. Last weekend, just discovered mold in my attic, likely need to replace some sheething, which means partial tear off roof. May come out of my pocket, not sure yet.

Wife gates bikes. I can't dig into family cash with these expenses coming up, even for just a few grand, to buy a bike. Doesn't feel right. I'm 37, there will be more bikes in my future, and the problem is I haven't ridden many of the bikes on the list.

If I find a Futura that fits the bill , I'll likely buy it. What do I really want? K1300S or new Multistrada. But I won't be happy with myself if I buy either with the expenses about to come down the pipe. What will I buy?  F*** if I know!



-Dan

I went through this exact same thing 3 years ago.  I spent the entire months of Dec-Feb agonizing over which bike I wanted to buy to replace my ZZR1200.  I wanted something lighter, less power and fuel injected.  I made a spreadsheet with all of the bikes I was looking at.  Futura was near the top of the list but I didn't want a long distance purchase.  It eventually came down to a Bandit 1250 or the Sprint in the end.  The decision ended up being made by the Triumph dealership making me an offer I couldn't refuse.  I haven't looked back.  

[Dan K]

I went through this exact same thing 3 years ago.  I spent the entire months of Dec-Feb agonizing over which bike I wanted to buy to replace my ZZR1200.  I wanted something lighter, less power and fuel injected.  I made a spreadsheet with all of the bikes I was looking at.  Futura was near the top of the list but I didn't want a long distance purchase.  It eventually came down to a Bandit 1250 or the Sprint in the end.  The decision ended up being made by the Triumph dealership making me an offer I couldn't refuse.  I haven't looked back.  

I hear you loud and clear.  That Sprint is why I am waiting until March - I need to get some good saddle time on a Sprint. Not sure I'll be able to throw a leg over a Futura, which ergonomically is the same as a VFR (there's a diagram posted on some VFR review - I'll try to find it and post a link).  As of right now, the Sprint and the Futura are leading the pack.

- Dan

[CrazyRider]

See ebay completed listings. 05-06 K1200s are going for 6k all day. But at the moment you can't get a better value than a genII FZ1 for as low as 4k.

[CrazyRider]

Cost of lower fairings have gone up a bit though: http://www.yamahasportsplaza.com/pages/catalogs/detail/26/216/415/40819/2/0/0/1/4/4/56/41343/lower-fairing-kit.aspx
http://www.yamahapartshouse.net/pages/catalogs/detail/26/216/415/40819/2/0/0/1/4/4/56/41343/lower-fairing-kit.aspx
http://www.yocracing.com/accessory_store/store/yoc_listItems.asp?idCategory=311

Last time I checked they were close to $550-600 shipped.

ebay has some: http://shop.ebay.com/s.html?LH_SellerWithStore=1&_nkw=fz1+lower+fairing&_arm=&_armm=&_ruu=&_rdc=1

I have the lower fairings, V35s, Shad 50 top case which makes my bike look pretty much like a FJRLite, only lighter, powerful and more fun

If you need more convincing, here is a thread that may help: http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75541

[CrazyRider]

I was in the same boat comparing 05+ Sprint ST and 06+ FZ1. FZ1 turned out to be a better value in terms of performance, brakes, headlights, parts, mods, looks, price and reliable brand name. Same year Sprint STs are atleast 1000 more expensive than FZ1s and IMO not worth it for just that triple wail. Plus Sprint ST are slightly aggressive essentially a sport bike in touring disguise and all mags and user reviews say they are basically canyons and backroad tourers than interstates at 70+ mph

Here is a source which I trust for unbiased reviews. They say the same thing about Sprint http://www.2wf.com/content/view/2343/28/

And here is the link to FZ1 review http://www.2wf.com/content/view/2107/28/

[Dan K]

OK!  I've been busy since getting back from the 3/12-3/14 California ride, including some visits to the doc and MRI people for a torqued knee (suffered during the Rich Oliver Dirt bike school which ROCKED!).

I got some saddle time on an '09 Sprint and an '09  FZ1.  Would have liked more time on the Sprint, but got some high speed, some twisties and some low speed work.  It wins.

The new FZ1 is great, but I liked my old one a bit better.  New one is super comfy ergonomically, plenty fast (although a little less grunt down low - may have been my particular bike), but has an even smaller half-fairing than the Gen1, and even with lower afirings, won't really do the trick . It was also a very boring, do nothing wrong bike, which isn't really a detriment, as it responded exactly as I told it to.  Plus, I was riding a Ducati Streetfighter the majority of the time, and the FZ1, while more comfortable, couldn't entice me to push it like the Streetfighter did, especially on the technical mountainside stuff.

Anyway, the Sprint felt great, responded the way it was supposed to, felt more substantial but not heavy, had great wind protection (highway blasts sucked on the Streetfighter, except for when using the gobs of power it has).

I found a Sprint locally that I'm hoping to pick up tonight or tomorrow.  2006 ABS model with 9600 miles.  It's got some cosemtic issues, but nothing too major, and it appears mechanically sound. All that's left is a test ride, but I see no reason it won't work.  Cosmetic issues got the bike to my budget range (like, $80 less than my maximum...)

I'll keep you posted.

- Dan









Wish me luck.

[chornbe]

Good choice.  


The low-end grunt being better in gen-1 vs. gen-2 is a common issue. The Gen-1 is considered more "streetable", especially after having a jet kit done.

[squeezer]

Wish me luck.

Luck wished.

I always liked those and darn near bought one. Good choice.

[MadOzodi]

 

Yea buddy!  GL

 

[MadOzodi]

Oh, looks like it went down on its right side?  Brake lever looks bent in that first pic.

[CrazyRider]

Sprints look awesome. They do have brake issues out of the box. Other than that a fine ride. Only wish they came with USD forks up front and more adjustable suspension. Touring bike does not mean we don't want an adjustable ride. I could have got one 07 ABS locally for $5000 with just 5K miles.

[MadOzodi]

...They do have brake issues out of the box....

Ahhh yes, the "spongy" feel and sticking cylinder seals or whatever.  Luckily for me, I've not experienced the latter since mine's still new.  Relative to my previous bike, the former isn't even an issue.  

[Dan K]

Sprints look awesome. They do have brake issues out of the box. Other than that a fine ride. Only wish they came with USD forks up front and more adjustable suspension. Touring bike does not mean we don't want an adjustable ride. I could have got one 07 ABS locally for $5000 with just 5K miles.

That would have been a good deal.  Mine was a bit more, but included Givi rack, E52 top case, and zero gravity touring shield, plus the manufacturer's more upright bars from the '07 or '08 and on...

So far so good, only one ride.  ABS light is on, but it looks like when the front tire was changed, they put the spacers on the wrong sides and the wheel is a bit off.  Hopefully that's the cause - started immediately after front tire change.   9106 miles when I rode it home.

- Dan

[Dan K]

Oh, looks like it went down on its right side?  Brake lever looks bent in that first pic.

Yeah, bike dropped on right side.  The right fairing has some vertical (and angled) scratches that were touched up.  It's my only problem with the bike, but it was a good deal.  Rode straight and true, practically brand new tires.  Need to see about repainting the touch ups.  Not done really well.  Plus, since the bike was in storage in a small garage, the left side chrome thingy on the fairing is cracked in half.  Need a new one of those too.

The rigth side brake pedal also appears bent in, but it isn't scratched at all and has plenty of clearance.  I'll have to compare to a new one.

Easy to find fault with the bike, but it's functionally in great shape (other than the ABS light...need to figure that one out when I have time...)

- Dan

[caddydaddy]

 ABS light is on, but it looks like when the front tire was changed, they put the spacers on the wrong sides and the wheel is a bit off.  Hopefully that's the cause - started immediately after front tire change.  

- Dan

If they switched the wheel spacers, then the ABS pickup sensor will rub the reluctor wheel, and both will need to be replaced at around $400 in parts!  

[Dan K]

If they switched the wheel spacers, then the ABS pickup sensor will rub the reluctor wheel, and both will need to be replaced at around $400 in parts!  

OK, where do I find the sensor and what the fuck is a reluctor wheel?  Regardless, if that's the case, the (previous) owner will give me back some money, or even take the bike back.  Cool guy.  

- Dan

[MadOzodi]

Congrats!  Hope you get the ABS light issue squared away.  I'm lucky to have a small amount of experience in touch up paint repairs; I was able to fix the scratches I inflicted when trying to turn my bike around in my single lane driveway.

[chornbe]

OK, where do I find the sensor and what the fuck is a reluctor wheel?  Regardless, if that's the case, the (previous) owner will give me back some money, or even take the bike back.  Cool guy.  

- Dan

I'm downloading a service manual as we speak. Gimme a few and I'll call you.

[PVS]

Well Dan, congratulations on the purchase.  With you and Chris both buying bikes, I don't know what we'll have to talk about for the next three months.  

[caddydaddy]

OK, where do I find the sensor and what the fuck is a reluctor wheel?  Regardless, if that's the case, the (previous) owner will give me back some money, or even take the bike back.  Cool guy.  

- Dan

BikeBandit.com would be the cheapest for new parts, or you might find them on eBay.

This is a pic of the front wheel of an ABS Sprint.  

The little ring with the slots is the pulsar ring.  The pulsar, which picks up the wheel speed is located just below the left brake caliper, and you'll see a wire going to it.  That little sucker is $142 and the pulsar ring is $250.  You might get away with just replacing the pulsar and not the ring.  
  I'd check to see if the pulsar is rubbing the ring.  There should be an air gap between the two.  The service manual has the specs for how much of a gap should be there.  But if the pulsar rubs the ring, as would happen if the wheel spacers were switched, then the pulsar is shot!  

[Dan K]

BikeBandit.com would be the cheapest for new parts, or you might find them on eBay.

This is a pic of the front wheel of an ABS Sprint.  

The little ring with the slots is the pulsar ring.  The pulsar, which picks up the wheel speed is located just below the left brake caliper, and you'll see a wire going to it.  That little sucker is $142 and the pulsar ring is $250.  You might get away with just replacing the pulsar and not the ring.  
  I'd check to see if the pulsar is rubbing the ring.  There should be an air gap between the two.  The service manual has the specs for how much of a gap should be there.  But if the pulsar rubs the ring, as would happen if the wheel spacers were switched, then the pulsar is shot!  

Makes perfect sense.  I'll check the service manual in detail and give the bike a good inspection when I get home tonight.  The diagnostics on the ABS system require a tool only a dealer will have, and even if I fix the problem, it may not clear the fault - kind of like a check engine light.  We'll see. I'd like to think it would reset itself if I discover the problem.  I'll start in the front with an entire brake system review, as the front has a slight grab when spinning free - could be the pulsar rubbing the pulsar ring (hope not).  Then I'll move to the rear.  Pretty fancy.

It still needs a few cans of seafoam to be on the safe side (bike sat w/ 3/4 full tank for 10 months and while it started up no problem, the gas smells like old lawnmower gas), needs an oil change, which looks pretty easy on this bike.  We'll see how much I'm going to tackle on my own.  It may be heading over to the closest dealer over the weekend...heated grips will be installed, hopefully by me, by next fall.  This bike will be my daily rider.  I plan to put lotsomiles on her.

- Dan

[caddydaddy]

Makes perfect sense.  I'll check the service manual in detail and give the bike a good inspection when I get home tonight.  The diagnostics on the ABS system require a tool only a dealer will have, and even if I fix the problem, it may not clear the fault - kind of like a check engine light.  We'll see. I'd like to think it would reset itself if I discover the problem.
- Dan

Actually, I just bought a scanner called "Dealertool", which allows you to read and reset the codes, balance the throttle bodies and bleed the ABS system. http://dealertool.web.officelive.com/default.htm  I haven't used it yet, so I can't tell you if it works good!
  The ABS system will reset itself if the problem is fixed, BTW.  And the check engine light will reset after 3 complete warm up and cool downs.

[Dan K]

Actually, I just bought a scanner called "Dealertool", which allows you to read and reset the codes, balance the throttle bodies and bleed the ABS system. http://dealertool.web.officelive.com/default.htm  I haven't used it yet, so I can't tell you if it works good!
  The ABS system will reset itself if the problem is fixed, BTW.  And the check engine light will reset after 3 complete warm up and cool downs.

Good news on the reset thing.  Hopefully it's a minor fixable issue.  Let me know how that dealertool works.  Sounds like I can't even bleed the brakes without dealer assistance?  Or a dealer tool?  There is a learning curve I am climbing here...

- Dan

[caddydaddy]

Good news on the reset thing.  Hopefully it's a minor fixable issue.  Let me know how that dealertool works.  Sounds like I can't even bleed the brakes without dealer assistance?  Or a dealer tool?  There is a learning curve I am climbing here...

- Dan

Will do!  I'm gonna do my 12K mile maintenance soon, even though I'm over 13K.    So, I'll be using the dealertool to synch the TBs then.
  Yes, the ABS pump can't be bled without the dealertool, or having the Triumph dealer do it with their scanner.  So if you do bleed the brakes, don't let the master cylinders run dry!  

[redmille]

Congrats Dan.  Hope you enjoy!