Yet another help me decide - (lightweight?) SPORT touring - DECIDED!

[Orson]

Only reason I'm resistant to the lower powered bikes is that I can see myself selling the Tuono and buying a side car rig to haul my kids around in, leaving me with a sports commuter/tourer a little lacking in the power depot.

I borrowed a 49 hp Guzzi V7 for a day, and had a whale of a time flinging it thru the twisties  

there's a lotta merit to the "Ride a slow bike fast" adage  

I wouldn't want one as my only bike though  

[chornbe]

May take you up on it, but it's freaking cold out right now.

I am going to do some research and digging tonight, to follow up this conversation with PM's.  Reason I said no to Versys was no fairing. This is a faired Versys with the same ergos as my old FZ1.  Interest peaked.

- Dan

FWIW, if the ER6n or the Ninja 650R had better 2-up accommodations, I'd have probably bagged the Ulie and gone with one of them. I like everything about those bikes, but they're just not built with 2-up in mind. I could see me... dare I say this... ditching the Sportster and replacing it with an ER6n. There... I said it.  

[JonS]

Took a look at the 650R in person last night. Not bad, but it didn't talk to me.  Sat on some other bikes - Gen 2 FZ1, BUsa, ZX14, GF650 Suzuki (i think that's what it was called...)

I actually liked the feel of the Busa and ZX14 A LOT.  I expected both to be and feel much bigger.

Now I have no clue what to do.  I need some non-work time on the net to do some more research.  Has me back on the ZZR path.

- Dan

http://www.zzrbikes.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=37659

You can get out of the winter weather too.

[jadziadax8]

Took a look at the 650R in person last night. Not bad, but it didn't talk to me.

That's 'cause what you say you want and what you actually want are 2 different things.

[Dan K]

OK, I am now pretty much lokoing at XX, ZX14 (need to confirm if there is a heat issue when stuck in traffic - if you know, let me know!), Futura or ZZR1200.  ZX14's may be a bit pricey...haven't really looked, but 14 is my lucky number!  I guess I'd consider the Busa, but not sure what they cost or if it can properly be converted into a commuter/tourer.

VFR is out as lacking in power, as are the 650's (unless a perfectly modded VFR lands in my lap at a cheap price, locally).

Cleanest purchase would be the ZZR, semi-local, bike looks super clean, warm fuzzies from the seller.  I would prefer fuel injection and some more features in the dash, but the bike is very nice and has more than enough power.

I found a nice '03 Fuel injected XX with beetle bags (scratched up a bit) and a couple scratches on the mirrors, but at a fair price. Need to see about replacing those mirrors...

I'm also communicating with a guy in NY about a Futura, but he hasn't been too responsive.  I may hold on for a deal on the Futura, since I love Aprilia's and see myself selling the Tuono one day, but I find myself really lusting after the power of these other hypersports, especially since this entire bike change was inspired by a few rides on a K1300S.

Internet was down at the hosue last night, got it back up sans router this morning and will dig in tonight.  I have more pics from the XX guy, and I'm not happy about the scratches.  

- Dan

[Dan K]

That's 'cause what you say you want and what you actually want are 2 different things.

Yeah, I'm pretty much screwing the light weight since I want power.  I guess I can't rule out the Gen2 FZ1 with lowers and bags, but I can't figure out how to buy them...Gen2 FZ1'a are inexpensive too...

- Dan

[chornbe]

Yeah, I'm pretty much screwing the light weight since I want power.  I guess I can't rule out the Gen2 FZ1 with lowers and bags, but I can't figure out how to buy them...Gen2 FZ1'a are inexpensive too...

- Dan

Talk to R Doug. He had a Gen-II with givi V35 bags and racks and it was a sweet looking kit on that bike.

[HipGnosis]

Just to stir the pot (it's a winter past time)...

There's talk on the Kawi forums of a 800R in 2011.

I'll definitely be looking for it and comparing it to the FZ8.   The fairing on the 650R doesn't give that much weather protection, so I think the half-faired FZ8 would be a close match.

As someone that use to ride a Sprint 955 RS (and still miss it occasionally), I can say the 650R is VERY light.  It's power isn't all that great, but it's got real good power-to-weight.

[Dan K]

Talk to R Doug. He had a Gen-II with givi V35 bags and racks and it was a sweet looking kit on that bike.

I did.  He told me why he sold it (issues that likely could have been sorted).  BUT - I still can't figure out where to buy the lower fairings.  Bags are no sweat.  He had Givi badged FJR bags on the sides, plus a Givi topcase that looked great, but I need fairings and wind protection for the rain and cold.  I am a commuter when it's dry and 40+ (without all the salt...)

- Dan

[redmille]

Dan, if you really like the k1300s I think you'd love the zx14 or XX.  the 1999 to 2003 XX are basically the same aside from color, you should be able to find a nice one for 4k-5K, I've seen 06 zx14's going for around 6K and they do have suspension and a bit more power advantage over the XX.  Both bikes are as smooth as it gets as far as motor vibes, both are very electric motor like.  The performance and fit/finish of both bikes will impress.  The same bags that Doug R had on his FZ1 are available for the ZX14 and you can buy factory bags for the XX from the UK.

[Norwegian Blue]

Seems to me that with your new criteria you may have just put the BMW K1200S back into play. There are two for sale just on either side of $9k on Chicago's Craigslist. I've seen them for under $8K with higher miles.....

[Dan K]

Tempted to search now, but it's bad enough I keep responding to this place while at work.

I found a decent XX with corbin beatle bags for a good price, and have yet to look for ZX14's.  Not sure what advantage the ZX14's would have over the ZZR1200, which motorwise apparently also has advantages (i.e. more power) over the XX.

No one is suggesting a Busa?  

- Dan

[chornbe]

No one is suggesting a Busa?  

- Dan

I'll even help deliver it.  

[Dan K]

I'll even help deliver it.  

$7k is too rich - I'd rather hold on a few months and buy a K1200S with that ESA (I love that...).  And the suspension is set up for a tank, not a 170lbs rider like me...and I haven't even researched out Busas yet.  I'll bet there's cheaper ones in my backyard, although it's so kind of you to offer to ride it to Chicago!

I need one night to research - literally, it's now Pete's ZZR1200, ZX14, XX, Futura, Sprint, or Busa (in no particular order).  Altho if I can find a source of lowers for Gen2 FZ1, I may just do that.  I can't believe how much bike you can get for so little $$$.

If no good deals fall in my lap, I have a line on the ZZR and the XX already in my range.  Still like the Sprint, and yes, I have a kick ass Triumph dealer about a 40 minute ride away that will pick up bikes for service.  

- Dan

And what happened to donkey balls? Oh, looks like ZX14 has strike as heavier than Busa or XX, but honestly, good deals trump weight.

[chornbe]

There's enough discussion about weight going on around here. Weight isn't evil unless its excessive. Question becomes what do *you* think is excessive? 775lbs felt just about right on my 'Glide, 400lbs felt just about right on my CBR. There's no global, universal answer.

Weight combined with poor geometry will make a bike feel lazy, cumbersome and like far too much work. Good geometry will make a heavy bike feel lighter in the turns, but over time you'll feel the weight. The biggest argument against excessive weight is in-turn dynamics. People like to talk about correcting lines. For me it was not that at all... I never had any of these "drama" moments in turns where adjustments were necessary. Every bike I've spent enough time on to get to know... and adjust to my liking... just worked. No, for me it was traction management. I rode that ~800lb monster like an animal on dry streets and like a little weepy girl on wet streets. Crashing 800lbs of iron on a wet road will do that to you.

But there's more... Shitty ergos will make a bike feel like work to ride. Run 600 miles of mixed roads on an RR bike then do it on an FJR or ST1300 or your Tuono or the FZ1. You already know what that'll feel like, don't you? I believe you've ridden some pretty aggressive bikes. If I get off a bike after a couple of hours an I'm hurting (not just body-static aching, I mean real pain), then fuck it... the bike doesn't work for me. Nearly any RR bike and EVERY cruiser makes me feel like that. Standards and mild-lean ST type bikes...  

It's more than just weight... it's a total package. You've mentioned some bikes that are drastically different than some others. Personally, I wouldn't *choose* to do more than a couple hundred miles on a Busa, ZZR, ZX and the like without ergo adjustments, unless those couple of hundred miles were 100% non-stop twisties. But seriously... I don't care where you live... that's simply never the case.

[Crackedpot]

I've found jaxed.com, using "the mash" will find you every bike on craigslist and ebay by make and model.  Kind of cool way to gauge the market.

Wow, this is awesome!

[Dan K]

There's enough discussion about weight going on around here. Weight isn't evil unless its excessive. Question becomes what do *you* think is excessive? 775lbs felt just about right on my 'Glide, 400lbs felt just about right on my CBR. There's no global, universal answer.

Weight combined with poor geometry will make a bike feel lazy, cumbersome and like far too much work. Good geometry will make a heavy bike feel lighter in the turns, but over time you'll feel the weight. The biggest argument against excessive weight is in-turn dynamics. People like to talk about correcting lines. For me it was not that at all... I never had any of these "drama" moments in turns where adjustments were necessary. Every bike I've spent enough time on to get to know... and adjust to my liking... just worked. No, for me it was traction management. I rode that ~800lb monster like an animal on dry streets and like a little weepy girl on wet streets. Crashing 800lbs of iron on a wet road will do that to you.

But there's more... Shitty ergos will make a bike feel like work to ride. Run 600 miles of mixed roads on an RR bike then do it on an FJR or ST1300 or your Tuono or the FZ1. You already know what that'll feel like, don't you? I believe you've ridden some pretty aggressive bikes. If I get off a bike after a couple of hours an I'm hurting (not just body-static aching, I mean real pain), then fuck it... the bike doesn't work for me. Nearly any RR bike and EVERY cruiser makes me feel like that. Standards and mild-lean ST type bikes...  

It's more than just weight... it's a total package. You've mentioned some bikes that are drastically different than some others. Personally, I wouldn't *choose* to do more than a couple hundred miles on a Busa, ZZR, ZX and the like without ergo adjustments, unless those couple of hundred miles were 100% non-stop twisties. But seriously... I don't care where you live... that's simply never the case.

I agree, He With Many Names.  Standards and St's are the only way I'm going, assuming these hyperbikes can be considered ST's - more ST's than RR"s, that's for sure.  Depending on how the next bike feels, I will likely make some changes - bar risers and peg lowering.  There are barely any twisties out here, some decent ones I ride in Michigan, but mostly my prime local riding is switchback sweepers with all the time in the world to lean from side to side (Blue Star highway in MI....nothing twisty, just 'curvy' I think... which is why I am not shying away from ZZR's and XX's. Heavy, but good packages.  At the same time, that's why I'm still possibly looking at Futuras and Sprints, in the event I can find a deal.

Leaving work, bowling with my old man, than heading home to do some research.  Looks like from a quick Jaxed search that ZX14's are off the table, there's a couple XX's that look nice.  Busas, well, probably not worth the insurance angle with the amount of riding I do and the fact that I'll always have (I hope) at least 2 bikes in the garage.  The ZZR is likely WAY better on the insurance.  And there's always the Gen2 FZ1 - kick ass performance, comfortable as hell, INEXPENSIVE and ready to be bagged up.  Just can't find lower fairings.

- Dan

[Ack535]

Dan:

Insurance is also a consideration. I have a friend who was going to purchase a new K1300S and found the insurance was too cost prohibitave for what the bike gave him. He ended up going with the K1300GT instead.

Your Busa's and ZX14's are also quite expensive as well...

Luckily, bikes like the VFR, ZZR, FZ1's are considered more sport touring, and the cost is less to insure.

Pete

[Dan K]

Another reason you may be getting a call from me shortly, Pete - just need some heavy computer time to dig and convince myself of what I'm doing.

 -Dan

[Big D]

Hypersport-Touring, you know you want to!