VFR1200F Dyno Numbers [motorcyclistonline.com]

[UFO]

Motorcyclist has posted up some of the first official dyno numbers of the new VFR1200F that I've seen.  The numbers are solid, but far from impressive for a modern 1200cc.  Honda has touted the "seamless power delivery" of this bike.  We'll have to wait for more official reviews to determine if they've delivered.

Word to the wise future VFR1200 owner: make sure the technician preparing to service your pride/joy has peeled one before signing turning him loose on anything more than an oil change. After innumerable phone calls, all seven of the words you can't say on television and one instructional web video, we've peeled away just  enough plastic to lift the fuel tank and attach our sensor to an obliging wire. Relatively speaking, it's all downhill from there. Fire up the fans. Slip on some ear protection, take a few trips to the rev limiter and let the erstwhile desktop PC crunch those numbers. So? The 1237cc V4 lays evenly escalating traces of power and torque from 2250 rpm that crest at 142.1 horses at 10,000 rpm and 81.4 lb.-ft. at 8750.

Read the entire article here.

[atadaskew]

Bummer

[UFO]

Found this on VFRD.  K13S vs. VFR1200F on the same dyno, as well as performance comparisons.  All in German.

In a nutshell the BMW is lighter, faster, quicker, more powerful, more torquey, drinks less fuel, goes farther on a tank, has more gadgets/opiotns, and costs about the same.

[atadaskew]

Yes, but the VFR has that easy to remove bodywork.

 

Actually what I did find interesting from the German article is that the fuel range of the VFR (I'm ass-uming until dry) is 196miles.  Not THAT bad (even though my Duc goes 250).
I wonder if the new VFR is speed restricted seeing it topped out at 250khm/156mph.  Kinda blows that a kid on his half your engine size CBR600 can blow by you...  
Conspiracy theorists would say it was intentional so that people don't find out how much slower it really is than it's competition.  As in, "yeah this baby would do 200mph but Honda put a speed restrictor on it so it would be legal to sell"..

Anyway, as much as I bag on this Honda I would be interested in it but only if it was at a distinct price advantage over the BMW.  So I guess I'll have to wait for a couple o years.

[sammyseaman]

Damn Skip! You love to piss in the Cheerios of the Honda faithful, don't you?  

[SVTNate]

Has there been *any* positive press on the VFR1200?  I guess when you claim that your new bike will revolutionize motorcycling and set a new standard, yet it doesn't best any of its competitors in any objective category, press will not be particularly kind.  Maybe when nobody buys the VFR1200, I can pick one up for 10 grand or so, because I still think it's going to be a cool bike!

[atadaskew]

  Maybe when nobody buys the VFR1200, I can pick one up for 10 grand or so, because I still think it's going to be a cool bike!

That's my plan.  Which is why I'm spreading as much bad news about it as possible.
 

How can anyone want a bike this awful?
 

[UFO]

Damn Skip! You love to piss in the Cheerios of the Honda faithful, don't you?  

I call it like it is.  This bike was at the top of my list until more and more info came out on it.  I'm sure it's a fine bike, but I'm not paying $16K (or more) for one that includes not a whole lot of features (including bags).  I LOVE V4s, so I mildly bag on the VFR out of love.

And I don't know what the deal is but when I view this page all the ads displayed relate to weight loss.

[SVTNate]

That's my plan.  Which is why I'm spreading as much bad news about it as possible.
 

How can anyone want a bike this awful?
 

I want two awful bikes... I'll take a new VFR1200 that's almost as much of a pig as my shitty FJR, with no bags, fuel range that doesn't let you go anywhere, plus I'll take a new 2010 Dyna Street Bob that's a slow, oil leaking, heavy piece of shit Harley.  I'll take both bikes new for the MSRP of the Ducati Multistrada 1200, which is the second coming of Christ disguised within a motorcycle.

[Rogue]

Skipper, just take them for a test ride on the same day.  That should really give you an idea which one is right for you.

Some bikes don't look so good on paper or comparison, or some look great on paper and comparisons, but once you ride them you can go either way.

Of course you already knew that.

[swimmer]

I wonder if the new VFR is speed restricted seeing it topped out at 250khm/156mph.  Kinda blows that a kid on his half your engine size CBR600 can blow by you...  

I really doubt if you were doing 156mph down the highway someone, anyone will by around to blow by you.

Good to see some better mpg ratings.  I just bought a sargent seat for my 6th gen.

[atadaskew]

I really doubt if you were doing 156mph down the highway someone, anyone will by around to blow by you.

Good to see some better mpg ratings.  I just bought a sargent seat for my 6th gen.

Ever driven on the Autobahn?  Or seen any youtube videos?....

I agree with the better mpg ratings.

[Will_Munny]

Skipper, just take them for a test ride on the same day.  That should really give you an idea which one is right for you.

Some bikes don't look so good on paper or comparison, or some look great on paper and comparisons, but once you ride them you can go either way.

Of course you already knew that.

I recall a similar chorus of displeasure towards the 2008 CBR1000RR when it was first introduced. It turned out to be almost indisputably the best litre bike on the market. Not the most powerful, not the fastest, just the best.

[falconati]

lolnda

[kevin_stevens]

I recall a similar chorus of displeasure towards the 2008 CBR1000RR when it was first introduced. It turned out to be almost indisputably the best litre bike on the market. Not the most powerful, not the fastest, just the best.

   
Gee, I don't remember anyone saying the CBR weighed too much.  I remember them saying it was the lightest, smallest liter bike ever - 6 lbs more than the 600.

And I don't remember anyone complaining about the range - maybe because it was 4.7 gallons on a *supersport*, not a sport-tourer.

And I don't remember anyone complaining about the suspension, which had all the adjustments the competition did.

Or the price, which was within a hundred dollars of the competition.



Oh, yeah, I *do* remember people complaining that they didn't like the front end styling.  Yes, I agree, that part is the same as the VFR.

Of course, NOW people are complaining about the 2008 CBR because of the significant percentage of them that turned out to drink a quart of oil every thousand miles - which is why leftover 2008s are discounted thousands of dollars in an attempt to get them off the showroom.  Are you suggesting the VFR will be similar in that regard as well?  

KeS

[Baz]

Anyway, as much as I bag on this Honda I would be interested in it but only if it was at a distinct price advantage over the BMW.  So I guess I'll have to wait for a couple o years.

I mentioned this on another thread, but up here in the great white North, the MSP is $1800.00 over the BMW, and BMW's here are considered expensive.

But yea, lets see how many they sell.

[gritsngravy]

Horsepower and torque seem more than adequate for the bikes intended purpose.   Seeing as how that 16k price tag is bugging the hell out of the bargain hunters I submit for the same $$ one can root out a left over '07 vfr (hurry not too many left) AND a left over 08 zx-14 for nearly the same cash.  That way your nagging v4 and 180mph fetish is quenched.  

[falconati]

But not on the same bike  

[bassjones]

Horsepower and torque seem more than adequate for the bikes intended purpose.   Seeing as how that 16k price tag is bugging the hell out of the bargain hunters I submit for the same $$ one can root out a left over '07 vfr (hurry not too many left) AND a left over 08 zx-14 for nearly the same cash.  That way your nagging v4 and 180mph fetish is quenched.  

but then you'd have two basically identical bikes only one would have vastly superior HP numbers...  Now, a leftover 14 with some Givi luggage and bar risers, and a leftover CBR  

[High_Side]

  It's too bad that they hyped the performace of the new VFR so much to build false expectations.  After all, when has a any VFR been at the top of it's class for performance since 1986?  It's not what a VFR is about.  Had they stuck with that marketing angle in all of they hype 140+ hp wouldn't seem that bad to most sport-touring people.

  You can however buy an old Viffer for $2500 that will approach the top speed numbers of the new one.....

[Will_Munny]

I remember hearing such clever phrases as:

nobody will buy this bike

Honda have lost the plot

Honda have lost touch with their customer base

It should have looked like this: (kindergarten-grade MSpaint rendition follows)

wtf were they thinking?

etc etc

   
Gee, I don't remember anyone saying the CBR weighed too much.  I remember them saying it was the lightest, smallest liter bike ever - 6 lbs more than the 600.

And I don't remember anyone complaining about the range - maybe because it was 4.7 gallons on a *supersport*, not a sport-tourer.

And I don't remember anyone complaining about the suspension, which had all the adjustments the competition did.

Or the price, which was within a hundred dollars of the competition.



Oh, yeah, I *do* remember people complaining that they didn't like the front end styling.  Yes, I agree, that part is the same as the VFR.

Of course, NOW people are complaining about the 2008 CBR because of the significant percentage of them that turned out to drink a quart of oil every thousand miles - which is why leftover 2008s are discounted thousands of dollars in an attempt to get them off the showroom.  Are you suggesting the VFR will be similar in that regard as well?  

KeS

[sammyseaman]

Has there been *any* positive press on the VFR1200?  I guess when you claim that your new bike will revolutionize motorcycling and set a new standard, yet it doesn't best any of its competitors in any objective category, press will not be particularly kind.  Maybe when nobody buys the VFR1200, I can pick one up for 10 grand or so, because I still think it's going to be a cool bike!

That's why it's so funny when a manufacturer delivers a bunt instead of a home run. Honda's arrogance is annoying as feck. It reminds me so much of Harley Davidson and GM. Whatever they say the faithful will buy into it. I'd take a 2010 CBR1000 (which sounds like an amazing bike) over this disappointment any day. A Tanklocker and some soft bags and you're golden.

[Squareman357]

I really doubt if you were doing 156mph down the highway someone, anyone will by around to blow by you.

I would....

[Baz]

That's why it's so funny when a manufacturer delivers a bunt instead of a home run. Honda's arrogance is annoying as feck. It reminds me so much of Harley Davidson and GM. Whatever they say the faithful will buy into it.

I have a cousin (related only by marriage  ) who is one of those die hard Honda people. He is even scratching his head over the VFR1200. Especially upon hearing the asking price.

[Ves]

Since the first time I saw the bike, something has been bugging me.  I realized it yesterday...  the front end looks like one of these...


Cycle World has a full writeup on the bike in the April issue.  They liked it... fast, comfortable... maybe by the time I wear out my Bandit the used one's will have decent prices..  

[MustangRider]

Anyone see the new issue of Cycle World?  For a heavy bike, it gets out of the hole pretty quickly.

Qtr mile: 10.33 @ 134.85 mph
0-30: 1.2 sec
0-60: 2.7 sec
0-90: 4.8 sec
0-100: 5.9 sec
40-60: 4.2 sec
60-80: 3.4 sec
Top speed: 157 mph (& the speedo was tested accurate at all speeds)

I thought those numbers were pretty respectable.

[atadaskew]

Anyone see the new issue of Cycle World?  For a heavy bike, it gets out of the hole pretty quickly.

Qtr mile: 10.33 @ 134.85 mph
0-30: 1.2 sec
0-60: 2.7 sec
0-90: 4.8 sec
0-100: 5.9 sec
40-60: 4.2 sec
60-80: 3.4 sec
Top speed: 157 mph (& the speedo was tested accurate at all speeds)

I thought those numbers were pretty respectable.

But much slower than any of its competitors for those that care.  Did you mean to type 175mph not 157?
For me, it's fast enough as I wouldn't use it to race.  Of more concern is the range.  And price seeing what else is being offered in its class.
Was that the auto version?

[Ves]

But much slower than any of its competitors for those that care.  Did you mean to type 175mph not 157?
For me, it's fast enough as I wouldn't use it to race.  Of more concern is the range.  And price seeing what else is being offered in its class.
Was that the auto version?

Cycle World says limited to 157 in both 5th and 6th gear.  Mileage was 34 - 41... average range 167.  They tested the manual transmission version.

[atadaskew]

Mileage was 34 - 41... average range 167.  

Is that range till dry or till reserve?

[Justin]

Cycle World says limited to 157 in both 5th and 6th gear.  Mileage was 34 - 41... average range 167.  They tested the manual transmission version.

Geez, I get better range than that on the Busa, even when riding over 100 MPH..  that's the one thing that kills the bike for me.. It's a touring bike, you should get over 200 miles minimum per tank.

[Squareman357]

Geez, I get better range than that on the Busa, even when riding over 100 MPH..  that's the one thing that kills the bike for me.. It's a touring bike, you should get over 200 miles minimum per tank.

I was thinking that myself about the ZX.  If I run 100 mph on a tank, steady throttle, I can get 165 miles to reserve.  I can get 200 to reserve if I do 85 mph on a tank, steady throttle.  I'm betting, once it's broken in, it SHOULD get better mileage than has been listed.  I remember when I first got the ZX, and it was barely getting 35 mpg...

[Ves]

Is that range till dry or till reserve?

Dry...

[tomek]

But much slower than any of its competitors for those that care.  Did you mean to type 175mph not 157?
For me, it's fast enough as I wouldn't use it to race.  Of more concern is the range.  And price seeing what else is being offered in its class.
Was that the auto version?

1/4 mile times are better then BMW1300S,main competitor,Honda joined NEW World Order and equipped new viffer with electronic governor,hence 157 mph speed limit.
I`m pretty sure guys like Erion will come up with device that defeats it for those that care,,,, Remember,Sport Rider picked up Bimmer over Hayabusa.According to Cycle World new Honda is all golden.

All things being equal I would pick up Honda over BMW anytime based on reliability record and reputation.
Both, Bimmer and Honda have silly fuel tanks,4.9 and 5.0.

[atadaskew]

All things being equal I would pick up Honda over BMW anytime based on reliability record and reputation.
Both, Bimmer and Honda have silly fuel tanks,4.9 and 5.0.

The Honda R&D guys that I ran into recently who were riding the BMW with the Honda did not come to that conclusion..
They really liked the Honda's auto box, but really liked the BMW's features (less weight, more power, more range, ESA suspension).

They actually said the bike they liked the most was the pre-VTEC VFR!

[tomek]

Where did you find more power,they both make mid 140`s,when was the last time you`ve heard about Honda`s final drives exploding or owners being sent to the dealer for yet another ECU remap ? Honda has much,much better record in this regard.

BMW may weight 30-40 pounds less but is slightly slower in 1/4 mile anyway,,,,

Cycle World,,,,,,,,,,,"This manual-shift VFR1200F is an exceptionally good performing,highly refined sporting motorcycle.It offers a depth of competence,ease of operation and technical execution that lets you know Honda definitely means it."
It sayz all.

[atadaskew]

1/Where did you find more power,they both make mid 140`s,.....

2/Cycle World,,,,,,,,,,,"This manual-shift VFR1200F is an exceptionally good performing,highly refined sporting motorcycle.It offers a depth of competence,ease of operation and technical execution that lets you know Honda definitely means it."
It sayz all.

1/  Check the beginning of this thread.  Honda makes 142, BMW makes 148.  BMW also makes more torque.

2/  That is a nice quote. But what does that sayl?  That a magazine that derives it's existence from advertising likes the Honda?
The VFR of course is a very nice bike.  But when Honda R&D staff tell me how much they like the BMW's extra power, less weight etc then THAT sez it all.
Posted on: February 28, 2010, 07:16:03 pm

BMW may weight 30-40 pounds less but is slightly slower in 1/4 mile anyway,,,,

Maybe it is slightly slower in the 1/4 mile, but that may be due Honda's shorter gearing.  Which some may say is why they conveniently impose a 157mph speed limiter.  Cuz it won't go that much faster anyway .  But having a speed limiter installed hides the reality that w/o it it still will be much slower than it's rivals.

Anyway, this is just bs-ing.  If I had any of these bikes, I would not ride them anywhere near their top speeds so it's all a hypothetical.

[Will_Munny]

2/  That is a nice quote. But what does that sayl?  That a magazine that derives it's existence from advertising likes the Honda?

Oh fuck off that's such a lame useless argument. So the Cycle World writers just pretended to love the VFR because Honda advertises with them? Does BMW not advertise in Cycle World?

If they were really slaves to their advertisers they would not have comparison tests.

[falconati]

Lil defensive there, eh Will?  What kind of bike....oh, never mind.

[atadaskew]

Oh fuck off that's such a lame useless argument. So the Cycle World writers just pretended to love the VFR because Honda advertises with them? Does BMW not advertise in Cycle World?

If they were really slaves to their advertisers they would not have comparison tests.

How rude!

Interesting you ignore the comments by the Honda doods that I had a chat with.
Look, of course it's a nice bike.  But after all these years we just were expecting something spectacular. Not just nice.
I met them at a SoCal hangout called the RockStore.  They had 4 new VFR12s, 2 VFR Vtecs and 2 BMW K1300s bikes.

I'll let you guess which bike is mine..
 

[JamesG]

Since the first time I saw the bike, something has been bugging me.  I realized it yesterday...  the front end looks like one of these...

Now THAT is a bit harsh...

[Ves]

Now THAT is a bit harsh...

Look at the shape of the headlight on the VFR... I'm just sayin...  

[tomek]

1/  Check the beginning of this thread.  Honda makes 142, BMW makes 148.  BMW also makes more torque.

2/  That is a nice quote. But what does that sayl?  That a magazine that derives it's existence from advertising likes the Honda?
The VFR of course is a very nice bike.  But when Honda R&D staff tell me how much they like the BMW's extra power, less weight etc then THAT sez it all.
Posted on: February 28, 2010, 07:16:03 pm

Maybe it is slightly slower in the 1/4 mile, but that may be due Honda's shorter gearing.  Which some may say is why they conveniently impose a 157mph speed limiter.  Cuz it won't go that much faster anyway .  But having a speed limiter installed hides the reality that w/o it it still will be much slower than it's rivals.

CW`s bike made 145hp,that is close enough.VFR spins 3590 rpm at 60 mph,basic,pre school math tells as it would run out of rev at about 180 mph.Besides it hits the same Vmax in 5th and 6th gear,that is enough information to conclude is not geared short and it has speed limiter  if your IQ is higher then 78.  

[atadaskew]

if your IQ is higher then 78.  

Cute, what are you, 8 years old?
Spinning at 3950 at 60mph does not mean it will pull max revs in top gear.  Only one way to tell.There are other factors such as drag, stability,or maybe the shaft drive has longevity issues at extended super high speeds? Who knows?  It definitely is not a selling point for an autobahn bound bike for it to be passed by any of the current 600cc supersports....

When the Honda guys themselves gush about the BMW and reminisce about the old gear cam VFR as the best out of the lot, it seems that this new bike was not driven by the engineers.

I have to say that seeing it in motion cruising down PCH with the sun glinting off its flanks, it looked like a completely different bike than when parked. Much nicer.

[tomek]

Cute, what are you, 8 years old?
Spinning at 39503590 at 60mph does not mean it will pull max revs in top gear.  Only one way to tell.There are other factors such as drag, stability,or maybe the shaft drive has longevity issues at extended super high speeds? Who knows?  

You absolutely clueless, can`t get even rpm right, just trolling as usual,why do I even waste my time with you.

If you care to compare similarly sized bikes ( frontal area,shape of faining) with similar hp figures you would come to conclusion that VFR  unrestricted would be good for mid 170s .
At 157 mph that bike is way below peak power rpm in 6th,pulls the same speed in 5th,it is just so obvious  to anyone ,don`t even try to argue with me on this subject  or you FAIL.I had full semester of vehicle dynamics back in the day  ,,,,,,,,,,,  

[atadaskew]

You absolutely clueless, can`t get even rpm right, just trolling as usual,why do I even waste my time with you.

You are over-reacting just a tad.  I mis-typed and it causes you to flip?
Dood, take a deep breath and chill.

Ok, so it 'could' go mid 170.  Just like an old Kawi ZX11 or Honda CBR11XX.
But it doesn't.  It goes 157mph.  

It doesn't matter to me as I don't ride like that.  So even though my Duc St4s goes 5 mph faster than this new Honda, it's irrelevant.

[tomek]

O.K,why don`t you just concede and admit you were trolling.I won`t tell anybody,O.K. ?

BTW,my bikes are faster then yours.

[atadaskew]

O.K,why don`t you just concede and admit you were trolling.I won`t tell anybody,O.K. ?

BTW,my bikes are faster then yours.

I'm only trolling about 50% of the time in my posts.
What am I supposed to do at work? Work?
 

p.s. your bikes are only faster because mine have speed limiters.. (especially the Vespa)

[todao]

I'm only trolling about 50% of the time in my posts.
What am I supposed to do at work? Work?
 

p.s. your bikes are only faster because mine have speed limiters.. (especially the Vespa)

Boring boring boring.  Why don't you guys go IM and only annoy each other.  And leave the thread to those of us interested in real VFR 1200 content instead of bickering kids dribble.

[atadaskew]

Boring boring boring.  Why don't you guys go IM and only annoy each other.  And leave the thread to those of us interested in real VFR 1200 content instead of bickering kids dribble.

C'mon Todd, then this thread would maybe have had 3 posts!

Peace out!

[TuffguyF4i]

Peak HP is important, but more important is total area under the curve.  Linear power delivery will win almost every time.  Of course, it has to be matched with the right gear ratios to utilize the power.

Did someone post the dyno chart and i missed it?  I did not see one for the vfr.  

I always have a chuckle to myself when someone complains about 10-20lbs on a bike.  Most guys that sport-tour are a good 50-100lbs overweight!  

[atadaskew]

I always have a chuckle to myself when someone complains about 10-20lbs on a bike.  Most guys that sport-tour are a good 50-100lbs overweight!  

and bolt on 30lbs of electronic farkles and other doo-dads onto their bikes!
Posted on: March 23, 2010, 10:13:33 am

Peak HP is important, but more important is total area under the curve.  Linear power delivery will win almost every time.  Of course, it has to be matched with the right gear ratios to utilize the power.

Did someone post the dyno chart and i missed it?  I did not see one for the vfr.  

Reply #2 on page 1 by The Skipper shows the graphs comparing k13 vs VFr12

[Zerosum]

So, has someone actually bought one yet?  Anyone over at VFRD or VFRWorld?  Has anyone read a post from anyone saying "Woot!  Just brought home my VFR1200!!!"

[atadaskew]

Some doods in England have them, apparently love them

[UFO]

I think one guy on VFRD has one (In England I think).  No one here that I know of.

I'm sure it's a good bike, but the fact that I don't see members of online communities really saying they bought one says a lot.

[Zerosum]

Not exactly the best economic climate to sell a $16K motorcycle.  

Honda probably began development of this thing back in '06 when money was growing on trees and Average Joe could just dip into his home equity to buy a $16K motorcycle.  

[FirstVtwin]

Dealerships are already advertising it for $13,799 on cycle trader...wonder what it will be in another 6 months?  Never heard of a bike being cut that much at introduction...

[McHack]

I think one guy on VFRD has one (In England I think).  No one here that I know of.

I'm sure it's a good bike, but the fact that I don't see members of online communities really saying they bought one says a lot.

None of the dealers here in central Ohio have them in, yet...

[atadaskew]

Dealerships are already advertising it for $13,799 on cycle trader...wonder what it will be in another 6 months?  Never heard of a bike being cut that much at introduction...

If the dealer fees are not ridiculous etc, $13,800 makes this bike totally worthwhile IMO

[falconati]

Yeah, and you can use all the money you save to get towed to the nearest gas station when you run out of fuel  

[atadaskew]

Yeah, and you can use all the money you save to get towed to the nearest gas station when you run out of fuel  

Dood, I ride about as far as Shah does so range is not a problem.

[falconati]

Shah has a motorcycle?  

[atadaskew]

It was inevitable...
 

[st ryder]

Those acceleration numbers are superb IMO.   Why is there so much discussion on power and top end speed when clearly this is a gentleman's express, not a squidmobile? Want a race track inspired sport bike? This isn't it. Simple. Other than the restricted cruising range, how else does this bike fall short of real world, not autobahn cruising, or road track performance? Can it cruise the ton 2 up with gear comfortably? What more do you want? Are the cases not far superior to the K1300s versions? Does Honda not have a far better reputaion for dependable shaft drive? Aren't there more than twice as many places to get service on tour than BMW? How do the pillion accommodations compare? How do the wind blasts compare? How does the weather protection compare? How about leg room, seating position etc? Those are what matter on a sport toruing bike, not top end speed. Oh, the article does say a few words about real world experience: "On the way home, I'm more impressed with the sneaky-fast way this engine makes power than with the numbers themselves." What's wrong with that?  

Oh, and it's far better looking than (any) the BMW, *that's* for sure.  

[atadaskew]

 Aren't there more than twice as many places to get service on tour than BMW?

Interesting that you bring that up.  Here's the problem, most of the BMW shops I know have really good service departments.  I'm in the Los Angeles area and I do not know of any Honda dealership that I would trust servicing ANY bike, let alone something as advanced as this new VFR.  
The one shop I took my stuff to years ago was Thousand Oaks Honda Suzuki.  But they've recently gone belly up.