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Topic: 2stroke/4 stroke Hybrid-Large motor applications?  (Read 1610 times)

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spinalator
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« on: December 02, 2006, 03:32:54 PM »

Interesting concept: to marry the positive aspects like weight and simplicity of a two stroke motor with the reliability and torque of a four stroke. Apparently one company has been doing this in their weed-wackers, based on 1980's and militry technology. Who knew? Not I!

Hybrid

I like the rather grandoise claims made,
Quote
Like BMW cars and Nikon cameras, Shindaiwa products are well known and preferred for their high levels of performance and long-term durability. Second to none, they are bought again and again by satisfied commercial users.
and most impressively:
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An exciting, colorful logo will represent our proprietary new technology and the line of products to come.

At least they admit bold new graphics are TBA!

If someone smarter than I could explain how it works and if it is at all applicable to larger engines, please post a reply.
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« on: December 02, 2006, 03:32:54 PM »

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spinalator
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« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2006, 04:38:11 PM »

Patent Info plus diagrams

Looks like a weird headed boxer engine. Merciful heavens I thought V4's were funky!
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Uncle Bob
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« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2006, 04:45:46 PM »

Quote from: spinalator;8060
Patent Info plus diagrams
 
Looks like a weird headed boxer engine. Merciful heavens I thought V4's were funky!
not that I really paid much attention to their brochure, but the patent diagrams looks like a very run-of-the-mill flat head 4 stroke engine.  Not exactly a high tech combustion chamber, to say the least
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« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2006, 06:17:27 PM »

Seems pretty straight forward.
As the pistons move outward away from the crank center they create a vacuum in the crankcase which is fed by inlet air thru the carburetor into the crankcase.  The crankcase is enclosed by reed valves which allow flow in only one direction.  As the pistons move outboard they draw air in.  As the pistons move back toward center they compress the charge in the crankcase and force it thru another set of reed valves into the camshaft plenum.  With me so far?
The engine fires each cylinder alternately.  Only one cylinder will receive an intake charge with every crank revolution.  The camshaft plenum will be charged at each revolution of the crankshaft with a greater volume of air than the intake charge would be under normal circumstances, thereby creating and holding a positive pressure in the camshaft plenum and supplying a 'supercharged' intake charge.  Like I said, pretty straight forward.  
What I don't understand is how they get around the problem of exhaust gases which are bound to be laden with unburned hydrocarbons just like any other two-stroke engine.  It looks to me like what you'll end up with is an engine that is only marginally more powerful than a normal 4 stroke, more complex and heavier than your run-of-the-mill flat twin and one that gives you the dirty exhaust and suspect internal lubrication of a 2 stroke.  
Somebody jump in here and convince me I'm wrong.
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« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2006, 07:02:46 PM »

The BS factor is high.
 
Any time that a manufacturer's website is full of "testimonials" and devoid of actual specifications, it's crap.  Period.
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« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2006, 07:26:00 PM »

Probably true Fastcat, probably true. Perhaps I just wanted to hear 200 HP 1000cc RZ's racing down the strip.

In any event, here is more propaganda...

The original site above was missing some text and referred to a figure that was absent, which makes me believe they "cut and pasted" incomplete portions. This is the same company, but not corporate, and off one of their weedwacker sites. (http://www.t2500.com/c4tech/index.html) Here is the text and EPA crap pasted from the t2500 site.



(Begin quotes without the fancy box)To cleanly transfer the fuel mixture into the Power Boost Chamber, C4 Technology® utilizes two reed valves, one located on the intake side, just behind the carburetor, and another reed valve between the crankcase and Power Boost Chamber. Thereby, on each upstroke of the piston, the air/fuel mixture is drawn into the crankcase through the intake reed valve. On each downward stroke of the piston, the air/fuel mixture is discharged through the second reed valve and into the Power Boost Chamber. Then, with the next downward stroke, the air/fuel mixture is introduced into the combustion chamber as the intake reed valve opens. The miniature overhead valves for the intake and exhaust, work off a valve train timing gear, which turns at half the speed of the crankshaft and controls the valve timing.
               
A critical step in this process occurs just before the air/fuel mixture enters the combustion chamber; the Power Boost Chamber plays an important role in inducing a positive pressure charge to the mixture. This patented system simplifies the mechanical process and provides several advantages: Effective lubrication of critical engine parts, pressurization of the combined air/fuel/oil charge for added power and performance, and supplements all day, all position capabilities
The EPA has finalized the timetable for its phased-in emission regulations for hand-held outdoor power equipment. The current Phase 1 levels for allowable emissions is 184 g/bhp-hr, as initiated by the EPA in 1997(1), and is calculated from measuring two primary benchmark pollutants, hydrocarbons (HC) and Nitrates of Oxide (NOx). It is no surprise that Shindaiwa has met these standards through leaner carburetor settings, and changes to cylinder porting.
                 
Starting January 1, 2002, the Phase 2 emission regulations will require all manufactures to lower the HC and NOx levels to 146 g/bhp-hr (see figure I). Shindaiwa will confidently meet this new regulation with a mix of current EPA Phase 1 and Phase 2 technologies, which use low emission catalyst mufflers(2). However, starting in 2005, the allowable emission levels for HC and NOx are cut to a scant 37 g/bhp-hr. That is almost 80% lower compared to today's 2001 levels; and not attainable by today's 2-cycle technology.
                 
                  EPA Phase 2 Regulations                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                
Engine Class
 
Pollutant
 
2002
 
2003
 
2004
 
2005 & Later
 






Class IV (20-50cc)HC = NOx (g/bhp-hr)
148
 
110
 
73
 
37
 
                [SIZE=-2]Figure I. - -                  Source: EPA, October 2001                 [/SIZE]
               
Take a minute now and read the chart on emerging emission levels (see figure II). Okay, from the chart below which of the engine technologies will meet and beat the tough 2005 EPA emissions standards of 37 g/bhp-hr? That is correct, the 4-cycle engine at just 11 to 23 g/bhp-hr. The 4-stroke engine is the only viable power source currently that will attain the EPA 2005 levels for compliance. Our C4 Technology® measures an impressive 18 g/bhp-hr. However, Shindaiwa engineers will continue to work diligently to further lower emissions, while simultaneously powering-up performance.
Emerging Emission Levels
HC+NOx (g/bhp-hr) ranges

             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                 
2-Stroke
                     
OC (oxidation catalyst)44-53
                   
Compression wave 46
                   
TWC (three way catalyst)42-44
                   
High efficiency recirculator41
                   
Stratified charge39-50
                                                                                                           
Micro 4-stroke11-23
                Figure II.Source:
EPA, October 2001

(1) Based on the 20-50cc Class IV engine family.
(2) With EPA Phase 2 Corporate Averaging, Shindaiwa plans to have a full commercial product line with a mix of EPA Phase 1 and Phase 2 technologies, and complemented with our new C4 Technology® program. (end of quoted text and tables and other stuff that I felt necessary to stuff into this post)
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