Erik Buell Racing 1190RR Unveiled

[Schneegz]

From Hell for Leather Magazine:

Erik Buell Racing 1190RR: Erik returns with 185rwhp



After being canned by Harley, Erik Buell is back with the fastest motorcycle he's ever made. The Erik Buell Racing 1190RR develops 185bhp at the rear wheel thanks to a larger, 1190cc version of the rotax v-twin. It's also 8lbs lighter than even the cheater 1125RR thanks to higher quality chassis components. The worst part? This probably would have been a street legal model if Harley didn't have its head so far up its ass.  

Nice!    

Read more (including specs) at the link.  

UPDATE:

Dyno comparison between 1125RR and 1190RR from Hell for Leather Magazine (link is the same as above).

[falconati]

Yummy.  But I guess none of this matters, since it still has pods - right Brad?  

[Brad1445]

I dont see pods,  I don't see a HUGE bobble head top fairing.  I don't see a dated firebolt tail.   I see a good looking Bike, I see a bike that if released in 2008 would have flown off the shelves.  Would have set the market on fire.  I see a bike that was designed with a purpose at one time.

What I would have to say to Erik about that picture is, see, was it that hard.  Thats a shell that is worthy of a Rotax Engine.

They could have owned the market.  Above, I see a bike.  No pods, as seen below. lol



what style do you prefer?

[Schneegz]

I dont see pods,  I don't see a HUGE bobble head top fairing.  I don't see a dated firebolt tail.   I see a good looking Bike, I see a bike that if released in 2008 would have flown off the shelves.  Would have set the market on fire.  I see a bike that was designed with a purpose at one time.

What I would have to say to Erik about that picture is, see, was it that hard.  Thats a shell that is worthy of a Rotax Engine.

They could have owned the market.  Above, I see a bike.  No pods, as seen below. lol

what style do you prefer?

Dude; you said you gave up the pods!

I give up on the POd thing.

The 1190RR is definitely the better looking bike, but remember that Erik Buell stated that he wanted a full fairing all along, and Harley nixed the idea.

[Tpoppa]

With Erik free of HD, I see good things.

[tankhead]

Looks alot like the spy shot awhile back. Really is a beautiful bike. Congrats to Erik.  Good Job Harley Davidson.   he is sooo much better off.

[Brad1445]

Dude; you said you gave up the pods!

I took the bait.

[Tpoppa]

I'd love to swing a leg over that for a few laps.

------------------------------------------------------
Engine
Type: 72˚ V-Twin, 4-Stroke, 4-valve DOHC FF valvetrain
Displacement: 1190 cc
Bore and Stroke: 106 x 67.5
Compression Ratio: 14.25:1
Heads: CNC ported
Valves: Titanium, 42.0mm intake, 35.4 mm exhaust
Power: 185 RWHP @11,500 RPM (Dynojet Rear Wheel)
Torque: 93.0 Ft-lbf @ 9,500 RPM (Dynojet Rear Wheel)
Piston: Forged alloy slipper type
Rod: Forged H-beam high strength alloy steel
Crankshaft: Lightweight forged steel
Fuel System: IDS Technology DDFI 3 electronic fuel injection and engine management system, fully programmable, 61mm throttle bodies, dual injector with showerhead, PWM fuel pump
Exhaust: Titanium ultralight 2 into 1 system.
Clutch: Multiplate Slipper
Primary Drive: Straight cut gear, 1.806 ratio
Transmission: 6 speed
Ratios: 6th - 24/25 (0.960:1)
5th - 25/24 (1.042:1)
4th - 27/23 (1.174:1)
3rd - 29/21 (1.381:1)
2nd - 28/16 (1.750:1)
1st - 32/13 (2.462:1)
Final Drive: 520 Chain
Chassis
Frame: Light alloy large section beam with integral fuel cell
Subframe: Light alloy tubular
Wheelbase: Adjustable - 1400 to 1460 mm (55.1 to 57.4 in.)
Rake: Adjustable - 21˚ to 22.5˚
Front Suspension: Showa Race 43mm inverted fork, fully adjustable with BPF technology providing true separation of rebound and compression damping.
Front Wheel Travel: 120mm (4.72 in)
Front Brake: 387.5 mm (15.25 in) semi floating ISO multi-fin rotor with 8 piston ZTL2.5 caliper
Front Wheel: 6 spoke ZTL magnesium, 3.50 x 17
Front Tire: 120/17 ZR-17 Pirelli Diablo Corsa III
Rear Suspension: Light alloy swingarm with Showa Race damper, adjustable compression, rebound and ride height.
Rear Wheel Travel: 127 mm (5 in)
Rear brake: 240mm lightweight disc, 2 piston caliper
Rear Wheel: 6 spoke magnesium, 6.00 x 17
Rear Tire: 190/55 ZR-17 Pirelli Diablo Corsa III
Fuel Capacity: 4.6 US Gal
Battery: Buell Li-tech Lithium Nanotech
Dry Weight: 360 lbs (wet, no fuel)

[chornbe]

With Erik free of HD, I see good things.

Meh... none of the machines are street legal and I don't see that changing any time soon.

[Brad1445]

Meh... none of the machines are street legal and I don't see that changing any time soon.

Agreed and this model I think they are targeting 30-50 units per year.  This is just to keep Erik busy where he cant cause too much trouble.

[Tpoppa]

Meh... none of the machines are street legal and I don't see that changing any time soon.

Yep, not until the non-compete expires.

[Schneegz]

With Erik free of HD, I see good things.

I hope you're right.  Hopefully, as soon as that "non-compete" clause expires he'll get right back to building street bikes.

[Gary B.]

That bike isn't my cup of tea to be sure, but I wish him well! I'd like to see Harley kicking themselves in the ass in a few years for shutting Buell down. I doubt they'd EVER catch on, however. They'll be busy trying to sell cow-skin clad bikes in India.

[Schneegz]

Updated above.

[falconati]

Agreed and this model I think they are targeting 30-50 units per year.  This is just to keep Erik busy where he cant cause too much trouble.

You're acting like a kid.

[Brad1445]

You're acting like a kid.

So kids in your neighborhood talk about EBR 2010 Production numbers?

How much money could he lose in this endeavor a few hundred thousand a year vs Millions? And they wont be forced on dealers that don't want them.

Smart  kids.

[Schneegz]

Oh boy; here we go again!  

[Squidbuzz]

What about taking the motor and putting it in an 1125R?  hhmm....

[boogeyman]

But now it looks like everything else.  

And I would be more inclined to buy it!  That's depressing, usually I like to be a little different.

I didn't mind the pods, but the top fairing was too wide for my tastes.  A little rounded off as well.  Of course without the wide top fairing, the pods would have been to wide.

The CR I like, but I prefer something with more wind protection, and didn't see many windshield options that would look right and provide enough wind protection for me, in my mind anyway.

Hopefully it does well and turns into something larger for Erik.

[Gary B.]

Read this yesterday...only related, I guess...

http://www.cycleworld.com/article.asp?section_id=43&article_id=2119

[Tpoppa]

I don't expect ERB to be highly profitiable.  I see it a as a low-overhead way for Erik to fund his R&D and field some race bikes until his non-compete expires.  Not making street bikes for 2 or 3 years isn't entirely bad, as new bike sales are shit right now.    

[falconati]

^^^^tell that to Triumph or Ducati  

[BCRider13]

1.  The non-compete could be much longer then you think depending on what was written into the sale aggrement between H-D and Erik Buell.

2.  H-D still owns the patents and Trademarks, which they are licensing to Erik Buell Racing.  Those elements are not part of the non-compete.

3.  The name.  H-D still owns the trademark and if I'm not mistaken must license the right to put Buell on any motorcycles.

4.  I could be wrong, but it would seem that this 1190RR was in the design an build process before H-D shut down Buell Motorcycles.  If this is the case, H-D would have a say on if and when this bike will be built in street legal form.

I have a feeling that if Erik Buell Racing is successful on the track that Erik Buell will focus his energy on racing only.

[Brad1445]

I don't expect ERB to be highly profitiable.  I see it a as a low-overhead way for Erik to fund his R&D and field some race bikes until his non-compete expires.  Not making street bikes for 2 or 3 years isn't entirely bad, as new bike sales are shit right now.    

Eric just needs a big hug and a new hobby. That interview in Cycle world he sounds detached from reality and a bit like  a cry baby. Those attitudes explain what the 1125 was released three years in a row. He lost his Bike Magic

When Harley goes to a full line of bikes I pray none of the old Buell management is involved.

America can do better than this....

[Brad1445]

That should read we have the capacity to do better.  

But apparently America will not manufacture anything in he future?  

[Rogue]

Read this yesterday...only related, I guess...

http://www.cycleworld.com/article.asp?section_id=43&article_id=2119

Thanks for that post.  It made so many things clear.  Erik is the man.

I can't believe the articles (and the people) that came out bashing Buell about their win.  Absolutely incredible.

[Schneegz]

I have a feeling that if Erik Buell Racing is successful on the track that Erik Buell will focus his energy on racing only.

In order for Erik Buell Racing to be successful on the track, Erik Buell can't focus his energy on racing only.  The series (plural) in which he wants to race require homologation of street legal motorcycles.  He got away with the 1125RR, but the 1190RR won't fly at all unless they successfully produce a street bike soon.

From the Kneeslider: what might have been, and hopefully soon will be.

[Tpoppa]

Eric just needs a big hug and a new hobby. That interview in Cycle world he sounds detached from reality and a bit like  a cry baby. Those attitudes explain what the 1125 was released three years in a row. He lost his Bike Magic

When Harley goes to a full line of bikes I pray none of the old Buell management is involved.

America can do better than this....

You make speculation based on information you just don't have.

HD will NEVER EVER have a full line of bikes.  Buell was there best chance and HD blew it big time.

[Schneegz]

When Harley goes to a full line of bikes Hell hosts the winter Olympics, I pray none of the old Buell management is involved.

There you go; I fixed it for you.

[chornbe]

When Harley goes to a full line of bikes I pray none of the old Buell management is involved.

You're still thinking that's an option? Let it go. It's dead. It's a non-starting idea. It's not gonna happen.

Look at their history, especially with the whole "core buyer" thing in perspective.

When they raced, what classes did they race?
When the currently-popular styles and classes of racing became the standard, where was Harley?
They will not - and choose not to - build a sport bike. Could they? I bet if they CHOSE to, and put their full marketing and engineering engine into production, things would change. In time. In a long time. But who can think and act that far out given the fragile market and the economic factors in play? I agree that Buell bikes were poorly marketed - or more correctly, mis-marketed. They should have been in full-line dealers all along. But whatever... those days are behind us.

Cruisers and cruiser-styled tourers. That's their bread-n-butter and that's where they'll continue to focus their energies.

I ask this question to the cycling community at large:

Why is it so many people *apparently* are itching to see Harley come out with more than they offer? Who will *REALLY* buy them?

I think it's all bullshit. Harley *did* offer some kick ass sport bikes and what was the market share? Blah, blah, blah... Harley blew it. Buell blew it. Marketing... blah, blah, blah. We *ALL* knew Buells were available and how many of us bought them?

Damned few.

"If you build it, they will come." Yeah.

I know a LOT of track-oriented (and some track-only) sport bike owners who are some of the biggest bike snobs you'll ever see. Many of them are of the belief that if it didn't come out of Japan, and it's got fewer than 4 cylinders, it's a toy. A niche. A pit bike only. Etc., etc., etc. I've even heard the phrase more than once... "twins don't make any sense on the track". When all you have to look at is the ridiculously constrained RPM range of the earlier air-cooled Buell/Harley engines, that's an easy argument to understand (and in part, to agree with). I actually tend to take the opposite opinion and think that any engine that you have to rev to 9K before it makes any "real" power is absolutely pointless on the street, so I understand the argument from a different angle.

Given the current state of cycling, the economy and the close-minded nature of many segments of the marketplace, I think it would just be dumb - flat out a waste of time, money and resources - for Harley to bother with a "full line" of motorcycles. The market spoke, Harley makes what their buyers buy. It's really just that simple. Maybe Black & Decker should build cell phones? Or Agilent should build freight trains?

[BCRider13]

In order for Erik Buell Racing to be successful on the track, Erik Buell can't focus his energy on racing only.  The series (plural) in which he wants to race require homologation of street legal motorcycles.  He got away with the 1125RR, but the 1190RR won't fly at all unless they successfully produce a street bike soon.

From the Kneeslider: what might have been, and hopefully soon will be.

You're assuming DMG racing and their rules.  His first 1190RR's are going to Europe.  The homologation rule isn't in every series of racing.

[Brad1445]

Given the current state of cycling, the economy and the close-minded nature of many segments of the marketplace, I think it would just be dumb - flat out a waste of time, money and resources - for Harley to bother with a "full line" of motorcycles.

Some small Manufactures Sales are up. Triumph Ducati...

Because The first Buells were troublesome the Harley guys stayed clear, sometimes you get a stink on something its hard to rub off.  The 1125 sealed that reputation/name  Name forever. But during the XB years I did buy 5, Harley trained sales and service would be the fresh slate they need.  The Buell name will never sell anywhere in volume  again with their reputation.

Maybe Black & Decker should build cell phones? Or Agilent should build freight trains?

Apple had no business making Phones, they knew nothing.  I think they did OK.  This alao why Buell needs needed new management.

[Schneegz]

You're assuming DMG racing and their rules.  His first 1190RR's are going to Europe.  The homologation rule isn't in every series of racing.

No, I'm assuming World - and the various European - Super Bike rules.  Erik Buell stated that the 1190RR is intended to race in those series.  All of those series require homologation.

The only series that do not are prototype series such as Moto GP, for which this bike is clearly illegal anyway.  

[BCRider13]

No, I'm assuming World - and the various European - Super Bike rules.  Erik Buell stated that the 1190RR is intended to race in those series.  All of those series require homologation.

The only series that do not are prototype series such as Moto GP, for which this bike is clearly illegal anyway.  

Then unless he can find a loophole in the rules the 1190RR is destine to race in series without the homologation rule.

[falconati]

Apple had no business making Phones, they knew nothing.  I think they did OK.  This alao why Buell needs needed new management.

Pretty terrible analogy, because Apple didn't build a phone.  They built an internet device with phone capability - mostly in line with their core competency (and the phone part they fucked up, until the 3G version).

If you still think the 1125 had anything to do with Buell's demise, lol.  Just simply: lol.

[Schneegz]

Then unless he can find a loophole in the rules the 1190RR is destine to race in series without the homologation rule.

My guess is that they'll convince the ruling body to allow them to compete with the promise of producing street bikes in the future.  BMW did that with the S1000RR, which raced last year but wasn't available for sale until this year.  

You're probably thinking; "yeah, but BMW and EBR are in completely different leagues, financially".  True, but the ruling body also made the same exception for Carl Fogarty's Petronas team.  The ruling body allowed the Foggy Petronas team to race for two years before they released their FP1 for "general" consumption (if an exotic bike can be considered general), and few of them sold anyway.



Bottom line: if EBR plans to race in Super Bike (as Erik Buell has stated), they plan to produce road bikes.  I don't know the details of how they plan to do it, but the series in which they've stated they plan to compete are exclusively production-based.

[Brad1445]

Pretty terrible analogy, because Apple didn't build a phone.  They built an internet device with phone capability - mostly in line with their core competency (and the phone part they fucked up, until the 3G version).

If you still think the 1125 had anything to do with Buell's demise, lol.  Just simply: lol.

Apple did not leave their mistake out their to die. They kept improving it.

PS Apple has set record profits due to the iPhone.

Buell could have owned the motorcycle world the same way Apple swept up the phone market.  That is how important a water cooled Buell was.  A task apparently FUBR'ed beyond repair by the ego's and the blind arrogance of Buell, and people like yourself apparently.

Buell had all their eggs in the one basket and left it for three years leaking clutch fluid all over America.  Ego's like Buell's and yours cause blindness that prevents improving a product as it requires a pragmatic review of where you are.

Yes the 1125 was the Final nail in a name Buell that struggled to fight a quality issue reputation from the early days finally overcame them and renewed them by allowing the press to ride bikes that did not run. Then taking so long to address a but only some of the issues. Some still have not been addressed and will be their forever tied to the Brand.

[Roadscum]

Buell could have owned the motorcycle world the same way Apple swept up the phone market.  That is how important a water cooled Buell was.  A task apparently FUBR'ed beyond repair by the ego's and the blind arrogance of Buell, and people like yourself apparently.

To "own the world" ya gotta make a profit.... no??

[BCRider13]

My guess is that they'll convince the ruling body to allow them to compete with the promise of producing street bikes in the future.  BMW did that with the S1000RR, which raced last year but wasn't available for sale until this year.  

You're probably thinking; "yeah, but BMW and EBR are in completely different leagues, financially".  True, but the ruling body also made the same exception for Carl Fogarty's Petronas team.  The ruling body allowed the Foggy Petronas team to race for two years before they released their FP1 for "general" consumption (if an exotic bike can be considered general), and few of them sold anyway.



Bottom line: if EBR plans to race in Super Bike (as Erik Buell has stated), they plan to produce road bikes.  I don't know the details of how they plan to do it, but the series in which they've stated they plan to compete are exclusively production-based.

It would seem that the rules for 2010 have been written to prevent this from happening.  The rules are very specific on production numbers required and a schedule of when those production numbers must be met.  The BMW would have met the requirements imposed by the new rules but the Petronas would not.

[falconati]

Apple did not leave their mistake out their to die. They kept improving it.

And so did Buell?  Or did this 1190 just magically appear after Buell was shut down?

[Brad1445]

To "own the world" ya gotta make a profit.... no??

True, In my business model demand would have allowed a profit to be made.  

Sex sells, thats how Ducati can charge a premium.

Ugly, not so much

[Brad1445]

And so did Buell?  Or did this 1190 just magically appear after Buell was shut down?

ahhhh, thats a little slow, especially since it landed with a thud and the iphone did not.
basements full of 08's should have made it a priority, or maybe it was the bad press.  or maybe if they just held a focus group,

Guess it doesn't matter now does it, but you can still get one of these

[falconati]

Nice looking bike.

[ninegear]

Nice looking bike.

true dat

[Tpoppa]

Apple did not leave their mistake out their to die. They kept improving it.

PS Apple has set record profits due to the iPhone.

Buell could have owned the motorcycle world the same way Apple swept up the phone market.  That is how important a water cooled Buell was.  A task apparently FUBR'ed beyond repair by the ego's and the blind arrogance of Buell, and people like yourself apparently.

Buell had all their eggs in the one basket and left it for three years leaking clutch fluid all over America.  Ego's like Buell's and yours cause blindness that prevents improving a product as it requires a pragmatic review of where you are.

Yes the 1125 was the Final nail in a name Buell that struggled to fight a quality issue reputation from the early days finally overcame them and renewed them by allowing the press to ride bikes that did not run. Then taking so long to address a but only some of the issues. Some still have not been addressed and will be their forever tied to the Brand.

All this from a self proclaimed expert, WHO HAS NEVER EVEN RIDDEN AN 1125.


Let's see:
Do you have a Buell?  Nope.
Are you thinking of buying one?  Nope.

So, other than being a troll and positng pictures of pods...why exactly are you even in the Buell section?

I have a theory, but it would be best expressed in a video.

[Brad1445]

Lets see, I have ridden a Gazzion Buells owned 5, Loved everyone of them. I will never ride a 1125r, I cant ride a bike that has such bad Mo Jo.  

I have owned four Ducatis, so I LOVE HIGH revving twins.

If I were you instead of making some latent homosexual internet stalker film, please use Rouges advice and put me on ignore.  

I had zero ignores until the 1125 came out
I'm at 15 now
I hope to see it go to 16 and you leave me alone

This is a Buell forum. They no longer manufacture bikes for the public.  If I want to vent my frustration that they could have had a golden egg and laid a dog turd instead this seems like the best place.

I'm sure my anger/disappointment will soon pass and I will no longer have any desire to discuss anything Buell but for now I am in mourning so please ignore me if you can not stand opposing opinions.

Now please click Ignore. Thank you.

PS you are all talking about a photoshoped picture in this thread if you could not tell.

[Tpoppa]

Check the title.  This thread wasn't even about the 1125r.  But just like any thread, you circle back to the same tired, old, wrong arguements and photo's of pods.  You must be obsessed.

I'll bet they miss you in the Ducati forum.

[Rogue]

He IS obsessed and has clearly lost his mind.  I have never seen anyone act so stupidly....except maybe a few folks in Politics but that's another story.

Just ignore him.

[Schneegz]

All this could'a, would'a, should'a discussion is pointless.  I look forward to what EBR does with the 1190RR and seeing what else they have planned.