100bhp limit and mandatory ABS proposed for EU

[bomber]

No, finding ABS bikes around here IS tough.  Or, what if you want bike X, but it doesn't come with ABS?

outside of BMW ($$$$) most manufacturers only offer a few models with ABS.   They may not be ones you like.  For instance, I would love a suzuki gsx650F with ABS.  Not available in the states, at least not yet.  And I rarely have the money to buy new, so it would take a few years at the least anyway.

Got it -- it's not finding bikes with ABS that's difficult, it's finding bike YOU want with ABS . . . . . . lesser priced, used bikes with ABS. Got it.

;-}

Understood, and I agree that more choices is always good -- I don't like using the government to try and implement that, though, as their involvment tends to limit, rather than expand, choices.

[Phenix_Rider]

Right. Hence the phrase "radical shift" for those who want POWER. It's why HP-based anything is silly. HP is a contrived number. A bike with 80lbs of torque out of the gate will get you to some wicked-scary speeds really fast, or will put an inexperienced rider into the shit REALLY fast and never approach a 100-HP limit.

It's silly.

 

[SpitfireTriple]

I don't think the problem is with high powered bikes, I think the problem is with beginners and intermediate riders on high powered bikes. Perhaps a more reasonable approach would be the dreaded tiered licensing where a person would have to pass a more stringent road test in order to register a 100+ hP bike...

1.  You can kill yourself on a Wee-Strom~ as easily as you can on a Fireblade~.  The fact that Fireblades are over-represented in the accident statistics is imply down to the type of person who rides a Fireblade

2.  The problem is not with superbikes.  Nor is it with riders.  The problem is with politicians

3. In Britain, 16 year-olds have to pass a Compulsory Basic Training course and test just to ride a 50cc moped
More, from the official website
There are two types of full motorcycle licence:

    * a light motorcycle licence (A1), which restricts riders to any bike up to 125 cc and a power output of 11 kW. The practical test must be taken on a bike of between 75 cc and 125 cc
    * a standard motorcycle licence (A), is obtained if the practical test is taken on a bike of over 120 cc but not more than 125 cc and capable of at least 100 km/h per hour.
    * After passing the standard motorcycle practical test, you will be restricted for two years to riding a bike of up to 25 kW and a power/weight ratio not exceeding 0.16 kW/kg.
    * After this you may ride any size of bike

In addition to these barriers, the all-wise EU invented a new, harder-to-pass, motorcycle test. The small print also meant the closure of most of Britain's test centres, making it much harder to get to the test centre.

Result?
(From MCN)
The Prime Minister has demanded answers from the Transport Minister over the drastic fall in new riders taking the motorcycle test.

Gordon Brown was put on the spot during Prime Minister’s Question Time yesterday – by an MP who learnt of the crisis from MCN.

Anne Main, Conservative MP for St Albans, asked: “Since 2008 and the introduction of new rules on motorcycling and tests, the number of people taking the test has declined by 62% and the number of people passing the test has declined by 58 per cent.

Anne Main’s husband Andy raised the issue with his wife after reading in MCN that 50,000 fewer riders had taken the new test during its first eight months. He said: “As a life-long biker, I was very concerned to read the article. I decided to give my wife a call, and she doesn't sit around.

I see what you mean Paddy Crow; there aren't enough hurdles placed in front of would-be motorcyclists Let's place another step, at 100bhp.  And while we're at it, how about one at 50bhp and one at 150bhp?  And then, next year,...



Politicians are, consciously and deliberately, cynically making it harder and harder to ride a motorcycle.  The harder they make it, the fewer people become motorcyclists. The fewer motorcyclists on the road, the lower the motorcycle accident statistics.  The lower the motorcycle accident statistics, the easier it is for the politicians to point to them and say "Look what I did!  Promote me!"

I am amazed so many people here and elsewhere are so ready to believe that all this legislation is driven by a genuine and uncomplicated desire to increase safety.

Not only that, I am amazed at the number of people willing to collaborate in this charade.

[chornbe]

I am amazed so many people here and elsewhere are so ready to believe that all this legislation is driven by a genuine and uncomplicated desire to increase safety.

Show me where just ONE person on ST.N suggested that. Just one. No one here to my knowledge has EVER said that. Ever.

What many people believe is that these initiatives are driven by knee-jerk reaction and pressure from people complaining about the hooligans, the noise, the apparent safety issues, etc. Genuine desire to increase safety never enters into the equation. It's all just reactive.

Not only that, I am amazed at the number of people willing to collaborate in this charade.

Like who? (speaking about people in the M/C community and on this site, not the blue hairs in the tea and coffee houses)

[chornbe]

 

So, it's not silly, the idea of limiting on horse power because it's a mathematically created measurement of total potential output and not of real world power delivery?

[DataDan]

I am amazed so many people here and elsewhere are so ready to believe that all this legislation is driven by a genuine and uncomplicated desire to increase safety.

Not only that, I am amazed at the number of people willing to collaborate in this charade.

Thanks for that post, Spitfire. Not quite as much here at ST.N, but in other forums I inhabit, the idea of stricter licensing and a more elaborate training regimen is seen as a panacea. The evidence you presented from the UK's implementation of EU requirements shows just how stricter licensing reduces crashes: By creating artificial obstacles that reduce the riding population. Fewer motorcyclists, fewer crashes. Duh.

[DataDan]

So, it's not silly, the idea of limiting on horse power because it's a mathematically created measurement of total potential output and not of real world power delivery?

Power is the rate at which kinetic energy can be imparted to the motorcycle. That is, the rate at which its speed can be increased. Power-to-weight ratio is the best predictor of quarter-mile performance for motorcycles.

Horsepower explains why a 600cc sportbike with a wimpy torque rating in the mid 40s can run the quarter-mile in the 10s while a Triumph Rocket 3 with a torque rating in the mid 140s runs in the 11s. The 600 accelerates harder than the Rocket 3 at any speed from 0 to 150. The big difference is that you have to keep the 600 in a narrower rev range. That's why they give them slick-shifting close-ratio transmissions.

[chornbe]

Thank you, yes. I guess my point is that horsepower is always a mathematically contrived value (from torque and rpm) - even on a dyno - as a convenient way to measure power. It's not an inherent value like torque and RPM already are. It's a measurement of several values as a convenient way to say "power". Like "purple" being a convenient way to say "red and blue mixed together". Red and blue are primary values, but purple is generated by measuring two of the primaries together.

Now my question to phenix_rider remains...

It's not silly to want to limit bikes on HP because very, very few bikes spend very much time actually generating their peak HP which is rarely what the factory says it is anyway...? I mean, these lawmakers could go further and add in vehicle weight, then gross vehicle weight, and say that no riders under 200lbs on a 100HP bike are legal, in order to keep the overall mass/power ratio in check. Where does it end.

I repeat: it's silly.

[paddy_crow]

I see what you mean Paddy Crow; there aren't enough hurdles placed in front of would-be motorcyclists Rolleyes Let's place another step, at 100bhp.  And while we're at it, how about one at 50bhp and one at 150bhp?  And then, next year,...

You do realize that motorcycle ownership has increased exponentially over the past 20 years?

The notion that it doesn't require more skill and/or experience to ride a more powerful motorcycle is ridiculous. I can absolutely, 100% guarantee you that someone on a 50cc moped will never have to face the prospect of losing control at speeds in excess of 100 MPH. The machine simply can't go that fast.

We already have a system in place that requires a person have a license to drive a car and, additionally, a specialized license to drive a motorcycle. I would submit that someone who just passed their road test is not ready to sling their leg over a 190 hP sport bike. Whether or not these machines should be legislated out of existence or further licensing requirements should be implemented to keep those who aren't ready off them is open for debate. I can guarantee that debate is not going to be decided by motorcyclists. To be clear, I'm not coming down on one side or the other.

We can always wait for the insurance industry to render owning high output motorcycles impractical by making it extremely expensive...

[notarian]

France doesn't make a bike and wants Europe to put about in Renalts, Citroens and Peugots. Not exactly 'wonder' cars on the likes of German, Italian and British super cars. Stoggy bastards at times, the French.

Wonder what Britain, Germany, Austria and Italy will have to say about this = we all know the biking imput, heritage and expense placed into their bikes (from tourers, sm's to sport and superbikes). Add the imput from japan too for bikes over 100bhp.

Add the imput from hundreds of thousands of bikers.

All told, it doesn't add up as there'd be a backlash towards the Brussels continginent that would have them back peddling. I reckon there's not a chance in hell of limiting power to 100bhp throughout the whole of the EC at any point soon.

[chornbe]

All told, it doesn't add up as there'd be a backlash towards the Brussels continginent that would have them back peddling. I reckon there's not a chance in hell of limiting power to 100bhp throughout the whole of the EC at any point soon.

Jean Claud VanDamm vs. Chuck Norris. That's really what it'll come down to.

[expatbrit]

Thanks for that post, Spitfire. Not quite as much here at ST.N, but in other forums I inhabit, the idea of stricter licensing and a more elaborate training regimen is seen as a panacea. The evidence you presented from the UK's implementation of EU requirements shows just how stricter licensing reduces crashes: By creating artificial obstacles that reduce the riding population. Fewer motorcyclists, fewer crashes. Duh.

Well.

Reduce the licenced riding population. There's no measure there of what the actual population is.

I have heard that less than 3 out of every 10 motorcyclists in this state carry valid licences. The other 70% own bikes and don't ride, of COURSE!!

[vguy]

I recall back in the mid 1990s when there was a "rumor of a bill" going around about the end of 1000cc bikes. Some of these scare tactics are used to stimulate sales.

[DataDan]

I recall back in the mid 1990s when there was a "rumor of a bill" going around about the end of 1000cc bikes. Some of these scare tactics are used to stimulate sales.

You may be thinking of the late 1980s, when Sen. John Danforth of MO was talking about a ban on "bullet bikes". I don't think it ever got past the committee stage.

You're right in that it was self-serving and had nothing to do with the well-being of motorcyclists. But the Senator was trying to stimulate voters, not sales.

[vguy]

You may be thinking of the late 1980s, when Sen. John Danforth of MO was talking about a ban on "bullet bikes". I don't think it ever got past the committee stage.

You're right in that it was self-serving and had nothing to do with the well-being of motorcyclists. But the Senator was trying to stimulate voters, not sales.

I knew of one small motorcycle shop in Florida at the time that was stocking up on used Liter bikes, thinking it was going to happen.

[Papa Lazarou]

Why is this thread still going?  

[county]

Because everybody loves something to bitch about....

[Papa Lazarou]

Because everybody loves something to bitch about....

I still love you.

You bring sense to nonsense

[mr moto]

Harley may find themselves in a favorable position, exporting 75HP, 75ft.lb. torquers.  

Only if they also cut their  gargantuan weight by about 75%

[Rogue]

Don't knock the Euro's as if they are the only ones who are capable of these silly rules and laws.  The US is not above it.  Remember the 55 mph law and 85 mph speedometers?  Politicians are the same anywhere!  Just look at the people in office:  they are mostly old, balding, fat people driving BMW's, MB's, Cadillacs, Town Cars, SUV's, and other big luxury cars.  Most of them are not interested in powerful motorcycles.  They loathe anything that is fast!  Speed kills as far as they're concerned.  Most of them take getting passed as a pesonal insult and get offended by such an act!  Most of them in N.A are not even interested in giving the rest of you the right to share lanes to alleviate traffic!  100 bhp limits?  Sounds about right to most old Politicians!  I can't believe the French allowed that to happen!  I can't believe the Germans are even thinking about it!  In the UK, they are trying to institute a new speed law that will lower speed limits further!  WTF?  It could easily happen in the US as we are outnumbered by motorcycle-hating drivers (and voters) out there.  It's okay for an SUV to go around cruising at 90 mph in the Interstates.  But a bike cruising at the same speed is a menace to society and should be banned!  That's what they are all thinking and wanting to do someday!