Is this good or bad for HD?

[chornbe]

I hear that shit all the time.

30 years ago 50 year old guys rode Harleys, with a spattering of other age groups.

Now, 50 year old guys are riding Harleys, with a spattering of other age groups.

Either a lot of guys decide to add a Harley to the stable when they're financially able, or Harley has found the key to immortality.

[dorklord]

If you had actually been around that long you'd know that AMF actually saved Harley-Davidson...disc brakes (before the Japanese started using them)

Got proof to back that statement up? I'm thinking that the first Japanese bike to use a disc brake was the year AMF bought Harley, and, say, 3 years before Harley introduced disc brakes...

[Skee]

IIRC, AMF d@mn near ruined HD using poor quality sand cast engines.  Worst 7 or so years in their history.  IIRC

[stevent]

Got proof to back that statement up? I'm thinking that the first Japanese bike to use a disc brake was the year AMF bought Harley, and, say, 3 years before Harley introduced disc brakes...

Harley-Davidson started using disc brakes on the FLH series in 1971, Disc brakes were standard on all FX Superglide models in 1972 and on Sportsters starting in 1973. That's straight out of the Harley Davidson factory service manuals that I used to work on my '76 Superglide and '78 Sportster back then and are sitting in front of me as I speak.

The only Japanese bike I know that had a disc brake back then was the 900 Kawasaki in 1972.

[Kraz]

The average age of HD riders goes up 1 every 12 months. The number of riders is going down as per the obits... sous like an out of business strategy to me. I give them 3-5 years unless they make some seriouhanges to their business model. It's a shame

Fantastic!
Let's do some math to back up Roadscum's statement..
Harley is now 107 years old.  Let's say the average age of an owner when they started out was 20 yrs old (too low I'm sure but it doesn't matter)
Then according to Roadscum the avg age of a Harley rider is now 20 + 106 = 126 years old!

Wow!

There was an article floating around somewhere on ST.N very recently that the average age went up higher than 1/per year.  I wanna say up 5 years in the last 3 or something like that.

[dorklord]

Harley-Davidson started using disc brakes on the FLH series in 1971, Disc brakes were standard on all FX Superglide models in 1972 and on Sportsters starting in 1973. That's straight out of the Harley Davidson factory service manuals that I used to work on my '76 Superglide and '78 Sportster back then and are sitting in front of me as I speak.

The only Japanese bike I know that had a disc brake back then was the 900 Kawasaki in 1972.

Everything I've seen says that they first used disc brakes in 72 (although that may be that they were on 72 model year bikes, which went on sale sometime in 71), but either way, the CB750 had a disc brake on the 1969 model.

[stevent]

Everything I've seen says that they first used disc brakes in 72 (although that may be that they were on 72 model year bikes, which went on sale sometime in 71), but either way, the CB750 had a disc brake on the 1969 model.

Ah, you're right. The CB750 had a disc front in 1968. OK then, HD had disc brakes before every other Japanese model except the CB750......

[dorklord]

Ah, you're right. The CB750 had a disc front in 1968. OK then, HD had disc brakes before every other Japanese model except the CB750......

Once the CB750 got a front disc, the vast majority of newly designed (or redesigned) Japanese bikes got them. It's one of the defining traits of the UJM.

For example, the CB350 introduced in 68 had a drum front brake, but the replacement CB350F in '72 had a front disc. The CB500 was an all new model in 71 and had a front disc.

Of course, it took longer for discs to be adopted on dirt bikes and 'budget' bikes (the 250 Nighthawk comes to mind!)

[chornbe]

One of about a b'zillion other reasons why the CB750 was innovative and many other bikes are merely iterative.  

[stevent]

Front disc, drum rear. HD had discs front and rear from 1971 on except the Sportsters oddly enough since that was supposed to be their performance model. Triumph  Moto Guzzi and BMW all had discs by '74. The Japanese put out some decent bikes but they weren't the be-all and end- all of motorcycling then anymore than they are now. About the  only "innovation" they came up with was splitting the cases horizontally instead of vertically

[BobW]

Front disc, drum rear. HD had discs front and rear from 1971 on except the Sportsters oddly enough since that was supposed to be their performance model. Triumph  Moto Guzzi and BMW all had discs by '74. The Japanese put out some decent bikes but they weren't the be-all and end- all of motorcycling then anymore than they are now. About the  only "innovation" they came up with was splitting the cases horizontally instead of vertically

Yeah, who'd of though silly stuff like eliminating perpetual oil leaks, tight QC engine clearances in non critical parts like piston/cyl bore, electrics that worked, etc., etc., would ever catch on.........

Don't get me wrong, I grew up on and still love the "classic" bikes and brands (last bikes have been a couple Triumphs, BMW r and MG), but the UJM showed just what was wrong with the delivered products of the day and the resulting massive decline of several oem's and amazing growth of others speaks for itself.

Cheers

[birdrunner]

........ The Japanese put out some decent bikes but they weren't the be-all and end- all of motorcycling then anymore than they are now. About the  only "innovation" they came up with was splitting the cases horizontally instead of vertically

Actually,  the real innovation of the Japanese bikes of that era were they were mostly reliable.  Especially compared to other bikes of that era.