sporster and HD reliability

[Rampant]

Does anyone here know of actual studies regarding motorcycle reliability?  I am thinking about a harley but they don't have a great reputation.  At the same time, I know that stems from manufacturing 30 years ago, and may have no relation to modern products.

[chornbe]

Does anyone here know of actual studies regarding motorcycle reliability?  I am thinking about a harley but they don't have a great reputation.  At the same time, I know that stems from manufacturing 30 years ago, and may have no relation to modern products.

I can only speak to the ~40,000 miles I put on my two Harleys ('Glide, Sportster).

I've had zero issues with the Sportster. I mean, ZERO.

I've had one issue with the 'Glide and that was 100% due to the monkey who put the bike back together again after I conveniently crashed it; he forgot to seat a clip on the fuel pickup inside the tank and it came off. The fix took 5 minutes to put back on and it was fine ever since.

I sold the 'Glide for other reasons. The Sportster has continued to be my "go to" bike for everything from commuting to 2500-mile weekend trips to squid-hunting to riding some of the greatest twisties in the SouthEast US.

Pick a place you can get to by bike... any place. Yes, I'd hop on it and ride it there RIGHT NOW if wanted or had to. No fears.

I'll be happy to address any specific questions.

Both of my Harleys were '08 models. My brother's '09 'Glide with the new frame, wheels, tires, etc., has been likewise, completely bullet proof and very reliable and he's already got more miles on his than I put on mine in the 2 1/2 years I owned it. He's had his only a scant longer than a year. Of course, I was splitting my miles between 2 & 3 bikes, but he rides is EVERYWHERE.

[chornbe]

Addendum...

I would not say that highly-modified Harley powered bikes would (or should) exhibit the same sort of reliability. Almost without fail, every engine failure in a Harley I've heard of in the last 10 years has been on modified Big Twin bikes. Never on stock machines, and always on the "fast" modded bikes.

FWIW.

[Rampant]

All I am interested in is a 1200 sportster, mainly the R model if I can find it (2007 or 2008, with FI).  

I rode one and found it very vibey, but talking to some people it may have had a loose engine mount (It got MORE vibey with rpm, not less, as suggested).

Only performance mods I would do is likely a less restrictive airbox, FI, and slip-ons.  I wouldn't mess with the engine.

[atadaskew]

All I am interested in is a 1200 sportster, mainly the R model if I can find it (2007 or 2008, with FI).  

I rode one and found it very vibey, but talking to some people it may have had a loose engine mount (It got MORE vibey with rpm, not less, as suggested).

Go to a dealer and test ride another one.  They'll let you.  It'll be the same basic thing as the 2007 or 2008 models.  It does sound like the one you rode had a messed up engine mount.
A rental Dyna that I had vibed like a mofo as engine speeds increased.  The one I own is very smooth.  Care and maintenance - as with all vehicles - matters.

[1KPerDay]

There are quite a few H-Ds on the Iron-Butt records list. They make very high-quality bikes lately. The engines are very overbuilt and understressed.

[OMJunk]

I have to say I have never owned an HD, but I have been interested in their legendary reliability, or lack of. Less than a year ago, I heard that a southern Ca police department totaled their bike costs. They had HD models and some Honda ST1300's. Their results were the HD's averaged 30 cents per mile to keep on the road, while the Hondas were 8 cents per mile. I know several people that have had good luck with Harleys, but also 3 that had major problems before 12,000 miles. Do you feel lucky?

[1KPerDay]

Well I guess that settles it.

[atadaskew]

I have to say I have never owned an HD..

Note to self....

[Geoff]

The Sportster is very reliable. In fact, an Iron Butt Rally rider on a Sportster rode over 11 thousand miles in 11 days.  Check out his story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwq4hwKd5XI

[Rampant]

Is there any way to reduce the intensity of the vibration.  I like a little shake but even with rubbermounts... it is too much

[bomber]

I ran the bejeebus outa a tuber Buell for 50K miles -- basically a Sporty engine with cams and better heads -- when I stripped it down, the bottom end was fine, and the cylinders showed only light scuffing. I believe that damage was due to missed shifts and much engine braking at track days.

Agreed that if the Sporty you rode got more vibey with added RPMs, it was broken -- they get pretty damn smooth at anything above a walk . . . . .

If a Sporty (not broken)  vibrates too much for you, you should look elsewhere for a bike -- the Iron Tower put a lot of really good engineering into the present setup, and disappeared pretty much all the vibes that most folks wanted. You MIGHT be able to dial out the rest, but it's take a lot of trial and error on the durometer of the mounts and like that . . . . . . . for certain, you'd spend a lots of time and money, and may not wind up with what you'd deem an improvement.

[atadaskew]

Is there any way to reduce the intensity of the vibration.  I like a little shake but even with rubbermounts... it is too much

Test ride another one.  It could be the bike you were on.

[Rampant]

I rode 2.  At higher rpms, it was great. But that meant being in 3rd gear at 70.  Shifting to lower rpms made it go from mild vibration to slow shake, which was jarring

[mnb]

Does anyone here know of actual studies regarding motorcycle reliability?  I am thinking about a harley but they don't have a great reputation.  At the same time, I know that stems from manufacturing 30 years ago, and may have no relation to modern products.

AMF era Harleys (1970s) may not have a good reputation, but modern Harleys are very reliable.

I've put 60k on my '07 Road King.  It doesn't leak oil.  It's never stranded me.  Of all the bikes I've owned, it's had the least problems, even less than my very reliable beemers (but not by much).

I find the bike runs better at lower rpms.  That's what it's designed to do, cross the flatlands of middle america at low rpms to reduce stress on the engine.  It flops around a bit like a paint shaker at stop signs (ok, not THAT much), but as soon as I add about 500pm when pulling away it smooths right out.  But the touring models have rubber mounts to help reduce vibes, too.  

[Papa Lazarou]

Does this mean that Harley will now rival the "gosh isn't lovely" factor of Guzzis?

Mind you, I saw a 70's HD250 (the Italian era) in the Smoke today-40 years old and doing great.

[atadaskew]

I rode 2.  At higher rpms, it was great. But that meant being in 3rd gear at 70.  Shifting to lower rpms made it go from mild vibration to slow shake, which was jarring

Another thing to do is rent one.  That's what I did before I bought mine.  Glad I did because for the first 15 minutes it felt really weird and I did not like it.  After a couple of hours I did not want to return it...
I bought mine own a couple of weeks later.

It's really easy renting them (eaglerider.com) and much better to pay $100-$150 than thousands later and possibly suffer buyer's remorse.

[Rampant]

A lot more dealers need to offer renting...  people talk about getting new riders.  Its hard, when everybody has to buy rideless.  That might be why harley has such good sales

[reppans]

I bought my first HD in 35 years of riding, the XR1200. It has also been the worst in initial quality, that I've ever experienced over the same time period. Within the first 5k/5mo, it had been in the shop for over a month with about 5 different warranty issues.  Almost 9k now and it's been fine for the last 4k, so I hope I've worked all the bugs out now.  I do have to admit it has been one of the most fun bikes to ride though.

I'm sure most are fine.... But "do you feel luckly."  

[chornbe]

I bought my first HD in 35 years of riding, the XR1200. It has also been the worst in initial quality, that I've ever experienced over the same time period. Within the first 5k/5mo, it had been in the shop for over a month with about 5 different warranty issues.  Almost 9k now and it's been fine for the last 4k, so I hope I've worked all the bugs out now.  I do have to admit it has been one of the most fun bikes to ride though.

I'm sure most are fine.... But "do you feel luckly."  

Can you list those out?

I'm curious which are xr-specific stuff vs, general stuff. Thanks.

[mugwump58]

I'll admit to having sat on one. This is the only HD I've got any interest in. I like the idea of the luggage and wind screen, but I'd rather have HB make racks for it than use the HD stuff. Yes I've got one all kitted out on the HD site, my own password and everything. I'll be watching this thread.

It'll be interesting to see what tasty bits come from the AMA series. I've read the rules and it looks like the parts that are modifiable, is that a word, are the bits I'd be interested in, although a 560 lb bike with a small tank has a lot of marks against it with me. I wonder if B and B Moto would make an aux tank for it. Sorry that's a joke...

[reppans]

Can you list those out?

I'm curious which are xr-specific stuff vs, general stuff. Thanks.

Most, if not all, are XR specific:

- Oil leak between air box & throttle body due to breather tubes & rubber boot separating/becoming misaligned @ 3k
- 2 scored front brake rotors by 5k (my last BMW ran 40k without even needing pads before I sold it)
- Fixed metal oil return line cracked at the engine mount, leaking oil
- 2 bad valve seals causing a 1Qt/1K oil consumption
- Exhaust gasket leaking (replaced twice)

Bike is bone stock.  I'm now getting an intermittent fork oil leak on one leg.


Also check out this thread Re HD reliability:

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,46414.0.html


Having said all that, I think I've had an unusual amount of problems, and the bike is still a blast to ride and perhaps the ultimate sleeper bike.

[chornbe]

Man, that is a disappointing list, but you're right.. those are all XR-specific. How can Buell get the engine mods so right and Harley get them so wrong?  

[bomber]

Most, if not all, are XR specific:

- Oil leak between air box & throttle body due to breather tubes & rubber boot separating/becoming misaligned @ 3k
- 2 scored front brake rotors by 5k (my last BMW ran 40k without even needing pads before I sold it)
- Fixed metal oil return line cracked at the engine mount, leaking oil
- 2 bad valve seals causing a 1Qt/1K oil consumption
- Exhaust gasket leaking (replaced twice)

Bike is bone stock.  I'm now getting an intermittent fork oil leak on one leg.


Also check out this thread Re HD reliability:

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,46414.0.html


Having said all that, I think I've had an unusual amount of problems, and the bike is still a blast to ride and perhaps the ultimate sleeper bike.

Yikes -- some of these seem like they could be related to the manufacturing line or the wrench working on the bike ... others seem like material defects from bought-in components, but, yeah, your list reads more like 1980 than 2010.

[reppans]

...How can Buell get the engine mods so right and Harley get them so wrong?  

Ummmm, Buell ain't no cup of tea either

http://news.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf/dx/2004-09-08101210MWEBMP.htm
(admittedly, an old survey)  Oops... didn't you just buy a Guzzi?..... well two outta three odds that you got a good one

Yikes -- some of these seem like they could be related to the manufacturing line or the wrench working on the bike ... others seem like material defects from bought-in components, but, yeah, your list reads more like 1980 than 2010.

Yeah, I'm actually looking to have a sticker made for my bike:  

"MY BIKE
(made on)
FRIDAY"

   

Honestly speaking, my sense is that while I've definitely had more problems than most other XR owners, most XR owners (usually coming from Euro/Asian brands) will agree that their XRs have been more problematic than their previous bikes.  

This guy musta got one made from the same day/line:  :

http:// http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10473293&postcount=1

[chornbe]

(admittedly, an old survey)  Oops... didn't you just buy a Guzzi?..... well two outta three odds that you got a good one

I can't speak to my Guzzi's issues yet, but it's 4 years old and has already had an owner. I'm assuming any early-life issues have either been dealt with, or just never appeared. I still whisper good things to the spirits every time I push the start button, just to be sure.  

I have to say, I am never anything but completely impressed at the amount of hard use - some might call it abuse - that my Harleys took/take from me and just keep on going. I ran my Big Twin at the upper 1/3 of the rev range a LOT of the time, and it just kept on ticking. The Sportster... well, I don't think I could kill that thing at this point if I tossed it over a mountain. It has been, to date, THE most reliable bike I've ever owned. Even my FJR - arguably one of the greatest bikes ever built - had some issues that I had to pay some attention to. The only faults I've found in my Sportster are silly things outside the context of reliability... the rear suspension just sucks, the foot pegs could be another inch or two back, the forks could be thicker... things like that... Stuff I knew going into it. But - literally - I'd hop on, turn the key, and head out for ANYWHERE on that bike with nary a worry.  

It's really disappointing to hear of problems in modern machines - especially ones sold at a premium price point, regardless of manufacturer.

[bomber]

It's really disappointing to hear of problems in modern machines - especially ones sold at a premium price point, regardless of manufacturer.

This is true - if motorcycle manufacturers were rated like car makers, life would be very different . . . . .

Dreaming is free ;-}

[st ryder]

...I have to say, I am never anything but completely impressed at the amount of hard use - some might call it abuse - that my Harleys took/take from me and just keep on going. I ran my Big Twin at the upper 1/3 of the rev range a LOT of the time, and it just kept on ticking. ...

That's because you're riding it like it was meant to be, ie NOT lugged, which increases the likelihood for bottom end problems, which is what many TC 88/96 riders do. Some riders even lower the idle speed to get that lumpy HD sound from their twin cams, and that increases the likelihood of top end problems. Twin cams are happier when they're reving over 3500 rpms and idling at 1000, but they don't make "that" HD sound like the older engine models.

[Rampant]

sadly, lugging it, or close to it, feels pretty good from the seat other than the enemic power delivery.

the TC engines are a weird choice.  They sound like a step backwards from the evo engines.

Weren't the Evos pretty reliable and made pretty good power?

[chornbe]

I can ride my Sportster right to your door for a great price. I just listed it for sale.  

[JGreb]

Zero problems with the three HDs I've owned. Their problems aren't reliability. But the problems I had were subjective and they may not be a problem for someone else.

I think if they are maintained properly and operated in their designed limits they are just as reliable as any of the OEMs.

[st ryder]

sadly, lugging it, or close to it, feels pretty good from the seat other than the enemic power delivery.

the TC engines are a weird choice.  They sound like a step backwards from the evo engines.

Weren't the Evos pretty reliable and made pretty good power?

The Evos' are good engines but considerably down on power compared to the 110cc bigger TC 88, and especially the 244 cc bigger TC96. I'm not 100% sure why they went with the TC design, something about epa noise restrictions and moving to a chain driven rather than gear driven cams. IIRC, the TC 88 alone out sold the Evo BT in five years. The Evo BT was in production for 15.  TC engines are very good and make "modern" power. Some HD long timers still prefer the Shovel. .

[Geoff]

The Evos' are good engines but considerably down on power compared to the 110cc bigger TC 88, and especially the 244 cc bigger TC96. I'm not 100% sure why they went with the TC design, something about epa noise restrictions and moving to a chain driven rather than gear driven cams. IIRC, the TC 88 alone out sold the Evo BT in five years. The Evo BT was in production for 15.  TC engines are very good and make "modern" power. Some HD long timers still prefer the Shovel. .

I recently moved from a TC88 (Ultra Classic) to a TC96 (Softail Custom). There's a considerable difference in power. The TC96 also has a 6-speed transmission with a lighter clutch pull.

[chornbe]

I just started my Sportster yesterday and it fired right up. I put tires on it. From what I hear, starting a sportster or loosening any bolt at all will cause the whole thing to explode in a fiery cacophony of drama. None of this happened so I guess it's ok.

[Playinthestreet]

. From what I hear, starting a sportster or loosening any bolt at all will cause the whole thing to explode in a fiery cacophony of drama.

That's been my experience

[st ryder]

I recently moved from a TC88 (Ultra Classic) to a TC96 (Softail Custom). There's a considerable difference in power. The TC96 also has a 6-speed transmission with a lighter clutch pull.

Yes, they seem to be a very good power plant indeed. IIRC, the cam chest had some important improvements over the 88's as well, ie hydraulic as oppossed to spring loaded cam chain tensioners.   I like the \"paint shaker" feel of the rubber mounted BT's at idle.  

[highside]

A lot more dealers need to offer renting...  people talk about getting new riders.  Its hard, when everybody has to buy rideless.  That might be why harley has such good sales

By most reports the "buying experience" at Harley dealerships blows away everyone else. Of course there are exceptionally bad Harley dealerships and exceptionally good Japanese dealerships, but overall Harley does a very good job of taking care of their customers.

[greywolf]

I've had my current HD for 3 years , my 3rd one in the last decade .. always bullet proof despite being antiquainted , and over priced.  We've had 3 sporties in the family , same story .

I ride my FJR more these days , but won't give up my Harley it's never let me down.

[mjrfd99]

Had my 77 sport and 79 glide over 30+ years   both have been great bikes.  The sporty never gave me a problem. Normal worn out replacement stuff here and there and the FX still has the original starter - Hatachi.

[Ed]

I think harley would do well to increase horse power, as they tent to be very slow,I have owned harley and loved their looks and the mechanical ride, but they lacked any real power. I ride a yamaha roadliner and the bike stock has plenty of power right out of the box. No need to spend big bucks to give the bike more go juice. But I feel harley makes th sharpest cruiser still

[Prubert]

(knocking on wood)

My XR is fine at 1700 miles.  

It is lots of fun...dragged the header pipe doing a ARC-ST.

..for a girls bike.

[Gar]

11,000 trouble free miles on my TC96 in 11 months. Minor intake(stage 1) and exhaust (header and slip on) mods with a PC-V. Idle at 1k, run it up the rpm band every time, no lugging. Buying experience? Best I've ever had. Too easy to make changes/mods unlike almost everything else I've had. The dealer had the seat I wanted in stock and it was $320. I couldn't be happier or more pleasantly surprised.

[chornbe]

11,000 trouble free miles on my TC96 in 11 months. Minor intake(stage 1) and exhaust (header and slip on) mods with a PC-V. Idle at 1k, run it up the rpm band every time, no lugging. Buying experience? Best I've ever had. Too easy to make changes/mods unlike almost everything else I've had. The dealer had the seat I wanted in stock and it was $320. I couldn't be happier or more pleasantly surprised.

Ya know, it really wouldn't take much arm twisting for me to ditch the other bikes and outfit a Superglide the way I want and call it a day. Money is the big thing right now, but that's really about it.