1200 Sport or 8V Griso?

[rauchman]

Greetings,

For the past week or so, just about every second of available time has been used to do Guzzi research.  The Guzzi bug has bit me and bit hard.  I came close to buying a used V11 LeMans a few years ago, but A.) I thought the seating position wasn't the best for me with a really long stretch to the bars and B.) I didn't know much about Guzzi's at the time.  It was a BEAUTIFUL bike though.  I've following Guzzi's line up for the last few years and have been slowly swayed over to a full appreciation of these machines.

I've had a 2002 SV650S and 2002 Yami RoadStar and am currently on a 2007 Suzy SV1KS.  I've done the Convertibar, Sargeant and Buell peg mods and this has helped tremendously for comfort issues.  I'll be doing a 5 day run the end of this month on the new setup to see how it works for touring.  But, as you can see from all the bikes I've had..... I'm a twin fan.  My wife rides a 2003 Kawi Z1000.  That's the only I4 I've ever ridden and while it is nice in it's own way, I like the more visceral nature of twins.

Motorcycle Mall in Belleville, NJ has been carrying MG and Aprila for a year or so.  I went there last weekend w/ the wife (who also REALLY likes Guzzi bikes) and would up sitting on the 1200 Sport, California Vintage, Norge and Stelvio.  Of course the one I didn't sit on was the Griso.  They were each very cool in their own way, but the 1200 Sport and, a few days later, the Griso were really singing to me.  If the 1200 Sport had the 8V engine, the decision would be very easy.  

Can anyone tell me if they have experience comparing the 2v head engine (1200 Sport) vs. the 4v head (Griso) and how they compare?  I really like the idea of what the 1200 Sport offers and its looks.  I've seen pictures w/ Hepco Becker hard bags attached and it gives me wood.  The Griso is very cool also, but it has a small gas tank and I wonder if the leg position would be too tight.  Does anyone know the tank range of a Griso 8V?

So.....which bike, the r1200 Sport or the Griso?

[garry]

I haven't ridden either, but have been watching the 1200 Sport since they introduced it. Like you say, a 1200 Sport with the new 8V engine would be my choice. Tests I've read indicate the 2V head has more grunt and the 4V head likes to rev more.  

[Orson]

I had a chance to ride an 8 valve Stelvio for a few days.

I thought it accelerated harder than my V11, but not enough to completely outclass my V11.

That's just my opinion. I usually ride in the 70-80 mph range, so I'm happy with my V11's output.

[rauchman]

I haven't ridden either, but have been watching the 1200 Sport since they introduced it. Like you say, a 1200 Sport with the new 8V engine would be my choice. Tests I've read indicate the 2V head has more grunt and the 4V head likes to rev more.  

I understand that although Europe has the 8V Sport, it, so far, hasn't made it into the US.  Unfortunate.  I really like the looks of the 1200 Sport and the dealer I mentioned has both a black and red one.  We didn't talk numbers on the 1200 Sport, but he did mention he could get me out the door on a 2008 Stevlio for $10.5K.  I'm assuming that I could get the Sport for about $9K OTD or so.  Then I ask myself, do I want a great deal on a bike that I feel maybe compromised by the motor I want, or do I get the bike.... that I want?  The Griso has the engine, but the Sport has everything else.  A test ride would probably answer these questions, but unfortunately, this particular dealer doesn't do test rides.

[chornbe]

$9k OTD on a Sport...

Do it. The suspension upgrades alone to bring a Breva up to Sport specs are major bucks.

Go for it.  

The other day I had my Breva out doing some twisties and I hit some of them pretty hard. It was a little wallowy, and there was definitely a need to set up and pay attention to what you're doing, but it did it just fine. Once I do some fork work and get a better-damped shock, I'm going to *really* love riding this thing in the mountains.

Did I mention...? Go for it!  

[Rincewind]

Seeing as you only like the Griso in hindsight, and didn't sit on it at the dealer, it seems the 1200 Sport is what you should get.  

I'd probably get the Griso 8V myself mostly because it's sportier in stance, smaller in size, and sexier.

I had considered these bikes last year and got some good advice in another thread on the 8v vs 2v engines..

[garry]

Here is the review I was thinking of that compares the two engines (from MCN UK, printed in motorcycle-usa):

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/195/2034/Motorcycle-Article/2009-Moto-Guzzi-1200-Sport-4V.aspx

[rauchman]

Here is the review I was thinking of that compares the two engines (from MCN UK, printed in motorcycle-usa):

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/195/2034/Motorcycle-Article/2009-Moto-Guzzi-1200-Sport-4V.aspx

Cool info, thanks.  

Does anyone know where to find Dyno graphs of the 2 engines?

[Orson]

Does anyone know where to find Dyno graphs of the 2 engines?

Here's a thread showing some old V11 dyno charts:

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8556&hl=dyno%20charts&st=0

Here's a thread on Pete Roper's 8V Griso. I think it's the one Daniel Kalal borrowed in Australia:

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15518&hl=dyno%20charts&st=0

I wouldn't put much weight on dyno charts though. Guzzis are too visceral for any chart to gauge  

[atadaskew]

The Griso has a lower c of g, stiffer frame and better handling.  It is the sportier bike.
But, the Sport still is really nice, has a much larger gas tank and can take the excellent Breva hard luggage.

So really what it comes down to is do you care about the bigger gas tank and luggage ability?  Cuz ultimately on the open road, once all the BS disappears, you'll be going the same speed if you're not riding like a douche.

It really is a win win.  Straddle both bikes and get the one that does it for you.  They both are wonderful.  Don't get the better deal if that's not the bike you really want as that just sets you up for regret later.

[kendenton]

I've ridden a Griso 8v (thanks EricJ!) and the 1200 Sport (thanks Guzzi@Americade!).

I didn't get on with the riding position on the Griso, thought it was a bit cramped.  The 1200 Sport felt roomier, and if you rotate the bars forward a bit you can eliminate the long reach up top.  That would make the ergos on the 1200 Sport about perfect.

Unfortunately I can't say much about the difference in engines, as the 1200 Sport ride was in the rain.

Lots of bag options for the Sport, don't know about the Griso.

Both gorgeous of course.

[chornbe]

Lots of bag options for the Sport

Hepco & Becker make racks, and of course the Journey bags are awesome.   Just north of $800 MSRP for the kit. Stockers are available new as a complete kit, right in the same price. Givi does not make a native setup for it.

don't know about the Griso.

Nothing from Moto Guzzi direct. Nothing from Givi. Similar setup from Hepco & Becker as on the Breva/Sport.

Options are out there, it's a matter of money and being happy with the limited selections.

[Rabidsnipe]

Doesn't it seem odd that the Italian motorcycle luggage company doesn't make bags for the Italian motorcycle while the German company does

[falconati]

I had the same dilemma.  I decided to wait and see if they release a sport with the 8v motor.  Otherwise, I can always go out and buy a Griso

[falconati]

PS if I were you I'd tell them that you want one of the two, but you're not buying anything you haven't ridden.

[sagerat]

Sport, I just love that bike.  

[chornbe]

Sport, I just love that bike.  

Agreed.

I think the Griso is bordering just this side of  

$.02  

[kendenton]

Agreed.

I think the Griso is bordering just this side of 

$.02 

   Really?  Of the current lineup only the Stelvio is bad looking to me.





It's like Salma vs Penelope

[MisterSmooth]

I rode the 1200 Sport for a day in Italy in 2007.  Wonderful bike.  Just a little bit of a Euro 3 glitch in the fueling at walking speeds, and maybe for my own personal use I'd fit the bar from the 8V Griso.

There's a thread with pictures in the STN Moto Guzzi archives somewhere.


Also, I rode the Griso 1100 back to back with the Griso 8V.  That was a good, good day.  Thread with descriptions and pictures here.

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,31915.0.html

If cost was no object, I'd get the 8V Griso.  It's an excellent bike without any excuses or obligatory references to Italian quirkiness, matched against anything from any manutacturer.

But they are expensive, and you can get a Sport for a ridiculous price right now.  And they're both sexy.  

[Playinthestreet]

If they're like the Ducatis... I like the exhaust sound of the 2V much better than  the 4V (and I'm a slug so the  "better" 4V performance is wasted on me!

[Roadscum]

I had a test ride on a 1200 Sport, Griso, and  Norge..... then bought a RED 1200 Sport. It just seemed like the right thing to do!!!! Why you say....

Decided I wanted a naked, to show off those big, beautiful, perky jugs, and for ease of maintanence. That eleminated the Norge.

I perefered the ride and handling of the 1200 Sport with the better supsension and 2 inch shorter wheelbase over the Griso.

I added color matched Norge panniers, heated grips, and a Mistral cf end can  to make it the perfect Gentlemens Express! Unfortunatley the panniers leak, seems be a common problem, should have gone with Givi's.
Fuelling was not the best so a PCV/Auto Tune was added from these guys:
  http://forum.guzzitech.com/forum.html

[rauchman]

I had a test ride on a 1200 Sport, Griso, and  Norge..... then bought a RED 1200 Sport. It just seemed like the right thing to do!!!! Why you say....

Decided I wanted a naked, to show off those big, beautiful, perky jugs, and for ease of maintanence. That eleminated the Norge.

I perefered the ride and handling of the 1200 Sport with the better supsension and 2 inch shorter wheelbase over the Griso.

I added color matched Norge panniers, heated grips, and a Mistral cf end can  to make it the perfect Gentlemens Express! Unfortunatley the panniers leak, seems be a common problem, should have gone with Givi's.
Fuelling was not the best so a PCV/Auto Tune was added from these guys:
  http://forum.guzzitech.com/forum.html

Cool info.  Do you find the Sport has enough power?  Also, how was it in terms of power delivery as compared to the Griso?

[chornbe]

2" is significant wheelbase when it comes time to get your twisty on. The Griso looks long, low and... dare I say... unfinished, in my eyes. Good choice on the Sport.  

[Roadscum]

Cool info.  Do you find the Sport has enough power?  Also, how was it in terms of power delivery as compared to the Griso?

The power band of the 2v/head seemed better at low an mid-range, that's where we ride 99% of the time.
With all the low end torque these v-twins make, it provides a very entertaining street ride, more then enough unless you're looking for bragging rights or a penis extender.  

My test rides were unescorted through some great roads in N.Ga., many young squid were wondering about the strange bike pushing them through the turns. As  point of perspective I sold an '06 FJR and a '07 Triumph Daytona675 to purchase the Guzzi. No regrets here!  

[Orson]

Yup, pay no attention to horsepower figures.

it's all about riding that wave of torque.

just like body surfing a nice wave  

[rauchman]

The power band of the 2v/head seemed better at low an mid-range, that's where we ride 99% of the time.
With all the low end torque these v-twins make, it provides a very entertaining street ride, more then enough unless you're looking for bragging rights or a penis extender.  

My test rides were unescorted through some great roads in N.Ga., many young squid were wondering about the strange bike pushing them through the turns. As  point of perspective I sold an '06 FJR and a '07 Triumph Daytona675 to purchase the Guzzi. No regrets here!  

Yup, pay no attention to horsepower figures.

it's all about riding that wave of torque.

just like body surfing a nice wave  

Just got back from a good ride a few hours ago.  Have to say, my SV1K has a bit of what you're talking about.  Really nice torgue surfing in the rolling hills of Orange Cnty, NY and surrounding area.  Today was the first time I got to ride the bike after putting on Buell pegs.  If this mod didn't work, there was no question in my mind that I'd be selling the bike.  The comfort is better, but I'm not decided on longer range comfort yet.  My buddy and I switched bikes for 10 miles or so.  He's got a KLR650.  The seating position w/ Corbin seat was really comfy, but the bike is a dog.  It does work in the twisties through the hills though.

I'm not so worried about high HP figures, just trying to understand the power delivery.  I'm guessing it's more Buell'ish in it's power delivery?  I've test ridden an XB12R and XB12Ss and can use that as a frame of reference.  I personally, LOVED the way the Buells made power.  I'm guessing the MG 1200 Sport is a more luxurious version of that experience.  I used to have a Roadstar, typical HD clone (although a good one) and had 60hp and 88ft/lbs torgue, but weighed 740lbs wet.  I had a good time on that bike and liked the power delivery of it as well.  Honestly, the more I read about 2v vs the 4v, I become less and less opposed to it and actually prefer the idea of it in some ways.  So, from what I'm seeing the 1200 Sport 2v makes somewhere around 80hp and 60ft/lbs or so?  It doesn't sound so far off from the Buell's and air cooled 2v Ducati 1000 engines.

By the way, I've already made up mind that if I can swing the money on this, I'm getting the 1200 Sport.  The only mod I would see as necessary would be the handlebars.  Aside from that, it really would be perfect for me.

[chornbe]

The Buell power comes on a little bit lower in the RPM range and a little more abruptly. The Guzzi comes on just a little higher, more ramp to its delivery, and it revs higher, with a bit more "oomph" up top and a bit less in the middle and low.

HOW it delivers power is very similar, it's just WHERE (in the RPM) it does it that's different. They're similar enough that you're right; it's a fair and reasonable comparison.

[Roadscum]

I owned a '06 Uly and  agree totally with the slightly higher power range on the Guzzi. The Buell was a real cooker and would blister my leg in the summer heat of Florida, I felt limited by the 5 sp trans. and the limited rev range. The Guzzi is a totally different animal.

I did swap the bar for the Manta bars but I'm thinking maybe the Tourno bars would be a better compromise.

The price offered by Riders Hill are hard to bet. Anthony the owner and David  in sales are stand up guys. Riders Hill is located in N Ga and just south of some of the best riding in the east. Fly down and ride home but first spend a week exploring N.Ga and North Carolina roads. I try to get up that way 3-4 time each summer to keep my skills sharp. Take a look here:
http://www.ridershill.com/

[velofishy]

Funny how perceptions vary.  I've ridden a couple Buells and a few Guzzis.  I didn't find much similarity in the motors at all.  The Goose is a short stroke and the HD motor is a long stroke.  I loved them both, but found very different characteristics.  The Goose seemed to have a much broader usable rev range than the Buell.  Not just higher in the range.

FWIW, a friend of mine rode both and detested the Buell motor.  He wants my Guzzi.

fish

[WitchCityBallabio]

I love the look of the Sport. However.....


I've ridden a Stelvio with that 8v motor and it is without question the nicest pulling Guzzi I've ever ridden. The thing makes more power everywhere. Guzzi should put that motor in every bike they make.

If that sort of stuff is important to you, go with the Griso with the 8v motor.

[Roadscum]

I love the look of the Sport. However.....


I've ridden a Stelvio with that 8v motor and it is without question the nicest pulling Guzzi I've ever ridden. The thing makes more power everywhere. Guzzi should put that motor in every bike they make.

If that sort of stuff is important to you, go with the Griso with the 8v motor.

.....but have you ridden the 1200 sport??

It's my understanding that the Stelvio has a different tune and cams then the Griso, tuned for more torque and less top end power then the Griso.

[rauchman]

I had a test ride on a 1200 Sport, Griso, and  Norge..... then bought a RED 1200 Sport. It just seemed like the right thing to do!!!! Why you say....

Decided I wanted a naked, to show off those big, beautiful, perky jugs, and for ease of maintanence. That eleminated the Norge.

I perefered the ride and handling of the 1200 Sport with the better supsension and 2 inch shorter wheelbase over the Griso.
I added color matched Norge panniers, heated grips, and a Mistral cf end can  to make it the perfect Gentlemens Express! Unfortunatley the panniers leak, seems be a common problem, should have gone with Givi's.
Fuelling was not the best so a PCV/Auto Tune was added from these guys:
  http://forum.guzzitech.com/forum.html

You mentioned you found the suspension and handling better on the Sport over the Griso.  Was this an ergonomic thing or other?  The reason why I ask is, my understanding is that the Griso has the better suspension components.  

Also, does anyone know what kind of power bump one gets when adding an exhaust and what not?

[chornbe]

Unfortunatley the panniers leak, seems be a common problem, should have gone with Givi's.

Crap... I just bought the OEM bags for my Breva... grr.

[WitchCityBallabio]

.....but have you ridden the 1200 sport??

It's my understanding that the Stelvio has a different tune and cams then the Griso, tuned for more torque and less top end power then the Griso.

I haven't ridden the sport, but I have ridden Breva's and Norge's and honestly, my Ballabio matches up pretty favorably to both numbers and performance wise if not better.

The 8v I rode had had the recent map uploaded. It was a stronger engine than the 2v. Period.

Having said that, I love my 2v Guzzi's and love the way they perform, but that 8v engine is sweet.

[MisterSmooth]

I love the look of the Sport. However.....


I've ridden a Stelvio with that 8v motor and it is without question the nicest pulling Guzzi I've ever ridden. The thing makes more power everywhere. Guzzi should put that motor in every bike they make.

If that sort of stuff is important to you, go with the Griso with the 8v motor.

I have to agree.   I rode the 4v and 8v Grisos back to back.   The Guzzi guys said that the 4v had just as much torque and power as the 8v down in the low RPMs.   And maybe it does.  

But my subjective experience was that the 8v had more power everywhere.  What a frickin' peach of an engine.    It's got that visceral low end rush--and also a top end that left my tongue hanging out every time.  



The 8v Griso and Stelvio (and I spose the 8V Sport that is already available in Italy), are a lot more expensive than a 2008-model leftover 1100 Griso or 1200 Sport, though.  

[Oilhed]

Come on!   Who wouldn't want this?

[chornbe]

This > that. I love living in a world where choice is still free.  



When the Breva that was for sale was pointed out to me, I jumped on buying it. I've been wanting one for a while. To me, it screams... it hollers... it NEEDS to be in my garage. And now it is. While mine's not a Sport, it's close enough. I still may hunt up one of those front cowls for it. It really refines the look of the machine; certainly better than the windshield I've got on mine.  

[MisterSmooth]

OK, you guys made me do it.

I went over to Moto International today and took a ride on a new 1200 Sport.  No pics, it didn't happen...so I took some pics.

Here's Mr. Sport in front of the ancestral home of La Familia Smooth in Seattle.




And another just because.




There would be quite a bit of storage available under the seat if one was to remove the charcoal canister.  But that would be irresponsible.



The red book is the Owner's Manual.  Geesh, it's so thick it looks like it could include an entire shop manual.


After my little ride, back at Moto International, I lit a figurative cigarette and contemplated life with a Guzzi.  I parked the 1200 right next to an 1100 Griso and thought that it was interesting to look at the lines of the two bikes side by side.  These two bikes look so different in isolation, but right next to each other there's a definite similarity of line.




Oh, and riding it?  I rode the Tuono over there; the Tuono is intense like a double espresso or a shot of Maker's Mark.  The Sport was like a pint of Guiness Stout afterward.

[atadaskew]

Oh, and riding it?  I rode the Tuono over there; the Tuono is intense like a double espresso or a shot of Maker's Mark.  The Sport was like a pint of Guiness Stout afterward.

You need it to go with your Tuono.  Buy it.  Buy it now.

[kendenton]

Any pics of that Coppa Italia?  

[MisterSmooth]

OK, I asked Dave at Moto International to price me up a Sport.  

Hard luggage, factory heated grips, nice Renthal bar.  

Only the gods know what happens next.  

[Orson]

people don't just say "price me up a sport"...

then include a list of specific accessories.

you may as well write the check  

[EricJ]

I love my Griso 8V and have no regrets. I can personally that Mr. Smooth for that. Everyone is different so buy what you think you will enjoy the most. Both drive trains are wonderful for different reasons. I do my my best to let others experience a MG and try to be an ambassador of the marque.

Eric

[chornbe]

I do my my best to let others experience a MG and try to be an ambassador of the marque.

+1  

Most of the riders I know and hang around with on a regular basis have tried mine out. Most have loved it. Pretty much all agree, "yeah, I see why you like it so much. It's pretty cool."

[kendenton]

I love my Griso 8V and have no regrets. I can personally that Mr. Smooth for that. Everyone is different so buy what you think you will enjoy the most. Both drive trains are wonderful for different reasons. I do my my best to let others experience a MG and try to be an ambassador of the marque.

Eric

I can vouch for that - here I am on EricJ's Griso 8v 

[Oilhed]

any cool shape, med size, hard bags for the griso?  kinda like the Corbin beetle bags.  just to lock up essensials at breaks along the ride.

[MisterSmooth]

any cool shape, med size, hard bags for the griso?  kinda like the Corbin beetle bags.  just to lock up essensials at breaks along the ride.

The factory Griso luggage is soft-sided.   The hard luggage for the Norge, Breva, and Sport is all the same and takes the same mounts.

The Griso 8V is a righteous ride.  Truly one of the best.    Beautiful looks, good handling, fantastic motor, charismatic, rare, seemingly reliable although it's a relatively new piece so the jury's out for a while.

[EricJ]

any cool shape, med size, hard bags for the griso?  kinda like the Corbin beetle bags.  just to lock up essensials at breaks along the ride.

Sooner or later I'll get a Givi to attach to the rear tail rack. It's not the greatest baggage system but it works for me. Sorry, no hard bags from MG for the Griso.

Eric

[blakebird]

I'm riding out to Wooster, OH next week to pick up a new, leftover '08 1200 Sport (red/white).
Some of the prices I've seen on these bikes on Cycletrader is fairly astounding, but reflects enough leftover '08 2V's that kept the 4V '09 from coming across the pond.

The 2V would have been my choice regardless - for a few reasons. I prefer that motor, and the Norge Silver '09 without the wave rotors just didn't have the sex appeal the black/white or red/white bikes do.

I ordered the luggage as well - and was surprised to hear it might be available quickly.

[MisterSmooth]

I'm riding out to Wooster, OH next week to pick up a new, leftover '08 1200 Sport (red/white).

Outstanding!  Don't forget to post us some pics, eh?  

[chornbe]

I ordered the luggage as well - and was surprised to hear it might be available quickly.

I really like the bags. And I like the mounting mechanism.