LSL Speigler handlebar kit on an '09 or '10 CBR600RR? Convertibars?

[ajf]

Anyone done this?

The LSL website is remarkably uninformative, so I'd be grateful for a brief description of what gets changed and what the fairing looks like after (if) it needs to be cut down for clearance.  Also, an impression of how far up and back the kit moves the handgrips would be great.

The Convertibars website doesn't make any claims for whether their product will fit, so it would be great to hear from anyone who's installed a set.

The price of leftover '09 ABS models has finally dropped substantially here and I've got some change in my pockets from selling an old bike ('81 GS650G), so I'm thinking of upgrading my tow-to-the-mountains SV650S.  But, my old neck can't take the bend the stock bars impose.  I've got Convertibars on the SV and set near max up they work perfectly for the two - three hour rides I take on it in the Kootenays (alternating with driving my tow car - sports car).  If I can get the CBR to fit, I'm willing to spend the cash to get the excellent ABS that will make trail braking a bit safer and reduce the pucker factor of emergency mid-corner braking.  (The extra hp is irrelevant to me and I doubt the CBR will handle any better than my modified SV.)

(Helibars won't move the bars enough to work for me.)

[ajf]

Thanks, JW600.  Your post is very helpful.

Your bars look the same as the ones on LSL's website for the CBR600RR, but from the pictures there I didn't notice the upswept ends or the narrow opening.  Both are important to me - I don't think I'd like upswept grips and I can't live without a Throttlemeister (unless the CBR turns out to be completely free of vibration), so it looks like I should plan on getting bars with a higher bend inboard to allow the grips to be downswept while keeping them in the same place to allow me to use the kit's cables.

From your excellent before and after photos I can see the change in bar position clearly, and I think it wouldn't be enough to make me comfortable.  However, the stock bars on the CBR are quite a bit lower than on a VFR, and if the LSL bars for the CBR wind up in the same place as on your VFR relative to the steering stem, the change should be a lot larger and they should be just about perfect.

[Morgan]

FWIW (and that may not be much), I have a stock 07 CBR600RR and the master cylinder (or maybe it's the throttle cable housings) hits the fairing at full lock.  So, unless the bars go back, up will not work at all.  I believe that there is no substantive change between 07-10 on the RRs.  

Also, don't kid yourself about the handling.  I too have an SV and it has Ohlins in the back, and emulators/oil up front.  It handles fantastically.  But my CBR is hands down a better handling bike.  It is positively telepathic and, simply put, amazing.  I'm on the SVRider board and people on the internet would lead you to believe that a well ridden SV will be no faster than an equally well ridden supersport.  It just isn't true.  

[ajf]

I’ve taken a few rides after installing an LSL Speigler handlebar kit on my ’09 CBR600RR ABS.  It’s fabulous!  It is the bike Honda should have made instead of the crappy naked bikes they’ve been trying to sell – great motor, premium suspension, light weight and a livable riding position.  I haven’t compared seating positions directly, but from memory I would guess that ergonomically I now have a CBR that is about the same as a VFR1200.

The handlebar moves the grips 5 inches towards the rider, as shown in the photos below.  For illustration, I left the clipons in place and replaced the top triple clamp with the kit pieces.

JW600 noted in a post that has disappeared from this thread that the LSL bars on his VFR 800 are upswept slightly.  That’s not the case for the CBR600RR bars, which are downswept just enough to be comfortable for me.

Regarding vibration, up to 75 mph - I’m still breaking it in - it’s one of the smoothest bikes I’ve had, bettered only by the rubber mounted engine in my ’78 RD400.  It’s smoother than my FJR and ’04 SV650S and much smoother than my ’81 GS650G and ’73 Z1. It might be about the same as my ’70 CB750, but that’s too long ago to remember clearly.  I got the optional steel handlebar so I could mount a Throttlemeister (the aluminum bars are difficult to fit with bar end weights), so I can’t say whether the standard bars would be as smooth.

The installation was far from straightforward, and Speigler was no help at all.  Here are the main issues I ran into:

1.   The instructions were in German.  (The kit for the CBR600RR is from an Austrian company, ABM, rather than from LSL.)  Eventually Speigler E-mailed me an incomplete English set, with no instructions for raising the top of the fairing.

2.   I received bags of hardware, but a lot of it didn’t fit or had parts missing - bolts with no nuts, one bolt when I needed two, bolts that were too short.  I had to purchase two bolts (to mount the ignition switch) and would have had to buy about 50% of the hardware if I didn’t have a lot of stuff to support my homebuilt airplane.  It’s possible that Speigler gives better service to Americans.  They likely know they can send crap to Canada because it’s so costly and inconvenient to return things that we don’t do it if there’s any way to make them work.  It’s not a company I would deal with again if I had a choice.

3.   I fiddled with the parts and figured out how to raise the fairing.  It’s essential to do this, as there is just enough clearance between the bars and the fairing and gas tank, with very little flexibility in positioning the bars.  Fortunately I find the position and sweep of the bars to be very comfortable.

4.   It’s obvious that raising the upper cowl by about three quarters of an inch leaves a gap between it and the instruments.  The gap is not all that evident because it’s under the cowl, but it’s definitely there if you look for it.  There are new small gaps between the upper cowl/headlights and the middle cowl (terminology from the Honda Service Manual) that are atypical for Honda, but they wouldn’t look out of place on a Suzuki or Kawasaki.

5.   After raising the top cowl, the bolt hole in the upper inner cowl / headlight cover no longer lines up with the u-clip fastener (Tinnerman in aviation speak – I’m not sure of the correct automotive term), and that leaves the cover rather poorly attached by just a plastic trim clip and some tabs.  I solved the problem by drilling and tapping a corner of the u-clip for a 6-32 screw.  The clip is quite hard so good quality drill bits and taps are necessary, and there’s not much margin for error in positioning the hole.

6.   The major issue with this kit was that I could not find a longer brake hose.  For the ABS model the top hose attaches to a junction block just below the lower triple clamp.  The attachment can’t be disassembled – the hose is crimped into an extension of the junction block - and Honda doesn’t sell the block without a regular length hose already attached.  Speigler couldn’t supply the item (they sold me the kit for the non-ABS model, and deducted the huge amount of $20 for deleting the complete stainless brake line set which they make in-house), and neither could Galfer.  I inquired at a few bike shops and was nearly resigned to paying big dollars to a machine shop to fabricate a new block when I was directed to a shop that specializes in hydraulic hoses and fittings.  They cut the hose fitting off the junction block, brazed a new one onto the stump of the old fitting and attached a stainless line with the appropriate fitting at the handlebar end, for about $50.

7.   The nearly useless mirrors are now completely useless, as my hands block almost all of the view.  I need to find mirror extensions or mirrors with longer stalks.

The final photo is the nearly complete conversion.  Also visible are the wiring and RAM mount for my Escort and Spot, and the Radar Screamer.  The windshield is a cheap and flimsy leftover from a much earlier project.  However, it has convinced me that the idea works.  There’s very little turbulence because it’s just a few inches ahead of my helmet, and it’s high enough to blow most bugs over my faceshield.  The downside is that it kills most of the windblast that lifts my weight off my hands.  But that’s a trade-off I’m more than willing to make.  I’m very uncomfortable with obscured vision, and unlike the stock clipons I can keep my weight off these bars for a couple hours - my typical twisties ride.  I’m hoping a better shield, probably an MRA, will soon replace it.

Don’t bother telling me the shield is ugly.  I know, and I don’t care.  And I care even less how it looks to you.
   

[swimmer]

Don’t bother telling me the shield is ugly.  I know, and I don’t care.  And I care even less how it looks to you.
   

 

[mike in oregon]

Thanks AJF.  This is exactly what I'll do if I get a cbr600rr.  I think this model is a rockin' bike and with the abs makes a great "standard" for everyday use.

[swimmer]

  There are new small gaps between the upper cowl/headlights and the middle cowl (terminology from the Honda Service Manual) that are atypical for Honda, but they wouldn’t look out of place on a Suzuki or Kawasaki.


   

Oh, and  

[JIMLARCH]

Your fairing is not just ugly, it is REALLY ugly.    How could you do this to such a nice bike?  

[JIMLARCH]

Your fairing is not just ugly, it is REALLY ugly.    How could you do this to such a nice bike?  

+1.

[ajf]

There was enough interest in this thread that I thought I'd post a photo with me on the bike to show the actual seating position.   (I'm 6 feet with a 31 inch inseam, and somewhat shorter arms than average for my height.)  The bars give me a comfortable position that I can maintain for several hours at a time despite my age - 62.  The MRA Customshield works very well to keep bugs off my faceshield (and the most of the rest of me).  To get the top of the shield just below eye level I extended the mounting rods by cutting them in half and gluing the ends into stainless tubes using JBWeld.  I think I might add a taller shield to the fairing (possibly a Zero Gravity Touring shield) to fill the gap between the two shields.

Last month I towed it to the Kootenays and spent three great days tearing around the twisties, so I can add some comments on the bike. The vibration level is so low that I didn't use the Throttlemeister at all - unlike my FJR (and SV650S which this bike replaced), which requires the Throttlemeister to be on whenever the road straightens for a mile or more.  The distance to the footpegs seems better or at least more comfortable than on the SV - I had no discomfort at all in my knees and legs.  However, the more upright position changed the angle of my feet and necessitated raising the shift lever about a half inch - a job that requires removing the lower fairing.  Something about the relationships among the seat, bars, pegs and levers is different enough from the SV (which had ConvertiBars giving about the same lean angle for my upper body) and the FJR that I could position the pegs under the rearmost portion of the balls of my feet and brake and shift without moving my entire foot forward as those bikes require.

The bike is comfortable enough that I think I could take longer trips on it.  Over the winter I'm planning to attach a mounting plate to the passenger seat for my mid-size Coocase, and I'll be able to take all the cold weather and rain gear and tools I normally carry in it on the FJR.  (Otherwise that stuff completely fills the Oxford Humpback tank bag.)

Regarding the ABS, I did some upright panic braking and it works extremely well.  However, I got the bike in the hope that the ABS would work while trail braking, and in three days I didn't get far enough into testing the front brake while cornering hard to be sure it will prevent lockup.   I did push hard on the rear brake while cornering at 2X the posted speed (about 7 - 8/10s, I think) and could not get even a wiggle out of the rear wheel.  So, assuming further testing shows that the ABS works as well for the front wheel, I'm hopeful that at the speeds I use in the twisties the ABS will allow me to brake hard for an unexpected hazard without worrying about locking either wheel.

[swimmer]

Sounds like you are pretty happy with your CBR.  I just did a track day on mine this weekend.  I got my suspension set up by the team that runs the BMW S1000RR in AMA.  That really helped.  The mechanic commented on how nice the suspension felt for a stock set up.

I couldn’t be more pleased with my CBR especially with how smooth and flexible the engine is.   I definitely wouldn't mind having the ABS.

[ajf]

I got my suspension set up by the team that runs the BMW S1000RR in AMA.  That really helped.  The mechanic commented on how nice the suspension felt for a stock set up.

I just used the settings recommended by Sport Rider.  The sag came out right in the middle of the recommended range (I'm 200 lbs).  It handles bumpy corners very well, and the feedback from the tires is the best I've ever experienced.  I'd probably back off some of the settings a bit for a long highway drone, as I do on the FJR, but only because it's easy to do.  The ride isn't particularly harsh at the SR settings.

Care to post the settings your bike wound up with?

[chornbe]

FWIW, Convertibars didn't offer a certified installation on the F4i, either and I ordered it and installed it. Worked out fine. They'll take 'em back if you can't make it work. Well worth the $$$, I think.

$.02


*edit*

nvm... shoulda read the thread entirely.  

[JIMLARCH]

+1.

Fairing still looks ugly.    But if it works for you and you like it, that's all that counts.  Think that Spiegler kit might look good and work well on my GSXR1000, but did I tell you the fairing looks too ugly to work on my bike.

[NVR2L8]

I have the same bike and have kicked around a few ideas to make it more comfortable, even to go as far as using it as a long distance touring bike.  For me the seating position isn't too bad, but in factory form I seriously doubt I could do multiple 300 mile days on the bike.  And until recently I was resigned to just go with the HeliBar kit even if it only makes a slight difference in the height and rear offset of the clip-ons, as I figured a little improvement would be better than nothing.  Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to post your findings as they are very helpful, but I have a concern regarding the raising of the upper cowl.  Do you know if the upper cowl problem is specific to the kit itself, or just because you went with the optional steel bar?  And do you know if the steel and aluminum bars are the same shape/bend?  I'm also curious if a different bar could be used and not require the upper cowl modification?

Edited: I forgot to ask...exactly where on the cowl does the bar contact, and how bad is the contact?  And do you think the contact area could be cut/modified instead of raising it?

[ajf]

Do you know if the upper cowl problem is specific to the kit itself, or just because you went with the optional steel bar?  And do you know if the steel and aluminum bars are the same shape/bend?  I'm also curious if a different bar could be used and not require the upper cowl modification?

Edited: I forgot to ask...exactly where on the cowl does the bar contact, and how bad is the contact?  And do you think the contact area could be cut/modified instead of raising it?

Speigler told me the steel and aluminum bars are identical in shape.  They recommend the aluminum bar because it's lighter.

There's no real problem with raising the cowl, other than the lack of instructions.  I'm still not certain I got it exactly right, but I can't see any other way to use the supplied parts.

There's no contact between the steel bars / controls and the cowl, and my thumbs don't touch the tank.  But there is very little clearance for moving the bars or the switches on the bars if you happen to dislike the only position that works.  Rotating the bars forward 1/8 inch would cause contact with the cowl.  Rotating them back an eighth would cause my thumbs to contact the tack at full lock, and another eighth would make that contact uncomfortable.  The start switch has to be rotated about 45 degrees lower than stock to clear the tank, but I haven't found that to be a problem.  All the other bits fit in the stock orientations, as long as you do a careful trial fit before drilling the holes for the positioning pins.

Speigler claims that one of the advantages of their kit is that you can use other bars, but I don't think you could use a sufficiently different bend to make an appreciable difference.  The bars would have to sweep back and up abruptly from the clamps to clear an unmodified cowl.  The handgrips couldn't wind up more than maybe an inch closer to the rider or wider without extending all the wires and getting an even longer clutch cable.

[NVR2L8]

Thanks for the info and clarification...

BTW, LSL-Spiegler sent me installation instructions, which I think are somewhat generic since they are for 2007 and up models and don't address the newer models with ABS or the integrated steering dampner, but I can forward to you if you want.

Lastly, since you went with the steel bar, which Throttlemeister part# fits?

[ajf]

Lastly, since you went with the steel bar, which Throttlemeister part# fits?

I was going to write up a rant about Throttlemeister, but decided against it since it's such a quality device.  But since you asked . . .

I E-mailed the company with that very question, saying I wanted to buy just the handlebar insert since I already had the rest of the Throttlemeister that I'd taken off the SV.  He replied with some irrelevant question about the year of the CBR - irrelevant since I was planning to use an aftermarket bar.  I repeated all the details, and he never replied.  Several days later I tried to phone him and he never returned my call.  Looks like he couldn't be bothered selling a replacement part, after I had bought two new units from him.

You might have better luck getting the information from him since you'll probably be buying a complete device.

I had another issue with him  previously.  I bought a used Throttlemeister from a forum member and was having trouble sliding the friction ring under the heated handgrip of my FJR.  I E-mailed him asking him what the trick was, and he never bothered to reply.  Turns out a one-sentence reply would have sufficed - heat the handgrip with a hair dryer.

So, I found a way to attach the too large insert (from the ConvertiBars on the SV) into a drill and pressed it against the side of my bench grinder while spinning them in opposite directions.  It took about 10 minutes to reduce the diameter by about a mm.   I also had to shave down the O-rings and grind down the compression washer just a bit to get them to fit into the bar.  Not a big deal, and I'm really happy I didn't have to give that guy any more business.

[swimmer]

Thanks for the info and clarification...

BTW, LSL-Spiegler sent me installation instructions, which I think are somewhat generic since they are for 2007 and up models and don't address the newer models with ABS or the integrated steering dampner, but I can forward to you if you want.

wasn't that offered on the 07 as well?

[NVR2L8]

What was also offered on the '07 as well?  Steering dampner?  Not sure, but I heard back from Spiegler that the kit for an '09 ABS model allows the use of the factory dampner.  But if earlier models did come with a dampner I would definitely call and make sure it works with the Spiegler kit.  That's just me tho...

[swimmer]

What was also offered on the '07 as well?  Steering dampner?  Not sure, but I heard back from Spiegler that the kit for an '09 ABS model allows the use of the factory dampner.  But if earlier models did come with a dampner I would definitely call and make sure it works with the Spiegler kit.  That's just me tho...

Yes, and it was.