Beginner bike opinion?

[BlackAndChrome]

I'm 18 years old and graduating high school shortly. With that I'm looking for a bike to learn to ride over the summer and for when I go to Kansas State in the fall. I have little experience with motorcycles, the closest thing I have to experience is riding dirtbikes with my cousins years ago. I'm looking for something with reasonable horsepower, good modern looks, and good rating for reliable, drive comfort, and handling made in the 80s to early 90s. Along with very reasonable insurance rates. I am 6' 2" although lanky at 175lbs

It should be stated that my parents will shoot down anything that is close to a sportbike but not other bikes that have 500cc more  . My dad rode bikes for years until his friend got killed on one so they are a little tender with the subject but have agreed to let me get one.

I found a rider's course at my local community college that I will be taking early June, it provides bikes and helmets. This will be before I get my own bike since my parents won't let me get anything till after graduation anyway and I couldn't find a nice fitting one that quick.

The bike that I've pretty much settled on is an 84-86 Honda nighthawk 700.
http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/honda_cb_700_sc_nighthawk_s_1984.php

I found one on Craigslist and loved the looks of it so I did more research into it. Several websites with history on the bike give it a lot of kind words in regards to reliability since it has shaft drive and was the first time the started using hydraulic lifters. Bikez.come shows it's specs compared to other sport touring bikes and motorcycles as a whole and it pretty much seems to blow both out of the water for every category other than offroad performance (who woulda guessed?). I haven' really found anything comparable period, yet alone in my price range of $1500 or less.

The bike is rated at 80hp which will without a doubt be the largest concern for a beginner. I've talked to my parents and we've come to the conclusion that it would be acceptable only if the throttle was limited significantly for the first several thousand miles. I don't really have a problem with that and the argument was my idea and it will stay like that for the designated amount of miles. My grandpa is a mechanic and a long time bike rider so it will get done immediately after any proposed purchase.

Thoughts?

PS I did read the "sport bikes are not beginner bikes" article and I promise that I won't be that bull headed. Although positive thoughts are always nice?
-I chose the bike on my interests, proposed use, and riding style. Not others.
-I'm looking for a bike because I want to ride, not look good.
-I don't want big cubes right off but this methods seems like the best of both worlds.

-B&C

[UHOH]

It's a great activity, and you'll do fine.  

I don't know much about that bike, someone will chime in who does.

You could also consider Suzuki SV650 = ~70 HP, but 100 lbs. less weight.  
Bulletproof mechanically, a V-twin, everybody loves them, came in 2 styles:
1 - the more common SV650S, leaned forward sport bike, with a fairing - pass on this 'cuz of your height and being a new rider, and
2 - the unfaired SV650, which has more upright (comfy) seating position.  
Made ~2000 - 2007.  Later ones had fuel injection.  Insurance on either bike is probably similar.
Photo shows a carbureted 2001 year SV650.  


with an added windscreen.

welcome.

[BlackAndChrome]

I do like the looks (although not as much as the nighthawk) and I like the specs even more. I will keep an eye out and add it to the list of possibilities when I actually get the opportunity to start looking for a bike. I did do a quick glance at craigslist though and got several hits for the sv650s but none of the less sporty alternative. All of them were over twice my price range. Will the standard sv650 be significantly cheaper? Now that I look back I never posted a budget... Under $1500 is the goal, I have the money but anything I buy is just more that comes out of student loans.

I'd kinda almost rather find an older bike that has a hopeful small number of miles on it. I saw a 86 750 nighthawk a few days ago with 13,000 miles on it and it sold for $1300 in 2 days. Wish I'd been able to jump on that one...

-B&C

[vanderpm]

For the age/price range you're looking at, I'd suggest taking a look at:

Suzuki GS series (in the 80's the 550 is a good bike, later they switched to a 500 with a bit more of a naked look) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_GS500 and http://www.thegsresources.com/

Honda Magnas (which is shaft drive, and I knew a guy that bought one new in 85 and it was still running as of a couple years ago) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Magna

I think Yamaha had a standard-style bike they built in that time period as well.

[BlackAndChrome]

I'll add those to the list as well, does anyone have an opinion on the Nighthawk itself? On the short term another Nighthawk appear on craigslist today. I had under the impression these were somewhat uncommon but here's another...

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1722205056.html

This has a few more miles than the 750 previously stated (750 is identical to the 700 other than a ~3m longer stroke). The 750 had 500 miles on the tires, this one is 2 years older and has a dented tank. Anyone have an estimation as what to offer? It's more likely that this is a normal deal and the other one was a great deal that I missed. I have tomorrow off of school so I may be able to go look at it (possibly get a bike far sooner then I though?). I doubt my parents will let me ride it before I take the course but this would give me a chance to get it cleaned up a little anyway, as well as get it ensured...

-B&C

[bassjones]

They're great bikes.  Friend of mine had one back in the early 90s and absolutely loved it.  It's a Honda, it'll run forever.  Just make sure all the maintenance was taken care of and you'll be good to go.

[nater]

I'll add those to the list as well, does anyone have an opinion on the Nighthawk itself? On the short term another Nighthawk appear on craigslist today. I had under the impression these were somewhat uncommon but here's another...

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1722205056.html

This has a few more miles than the 750 previously stated (750 is identical to the 700 other than a ~3m longer stroke). The 750 had 500 miles on the tires, this one is 2 years older and has a dented tank. Anyone have an estimation as what to offer? It's more likely that this is a normal deal and the other one was a great deal that I missed. I have tomorrow off of school so I may be able to go look at it (possibly get a bike far sooner then I though?). I doubt my parents will let me ride it before I take the course but this would give me a chance to get it cleaned up a little anyway, as well as get it ensured...

-B&C

Not too bad of a deal but...  I would try to get the price to $1000.  The bike is 26 years old.  

[Zerosum]

I can appreciate the desire to keep the cost down (my first bike back in '03 cost $900) but keep in mind that any bike from the '80s is entering a pretty maintenance-intensive phase of its life.  Stuff like rubber seals, bearings, gaskets, cables, basiclly anything made of rubber might be worn out and need to be replaced.  

It sucks to have to spend a lot of time wrenching on your first bike, you want a bike to RIDE, not a project.  I'd suggest something a little newer, like a GS500 or EX500.  The Yamaha Seca II is a great stater as well.

[BlackAndChrome]

I can appreciate the desire to keep the cost down (my first bike back in '03 cost $900) but keep in mind that any bike from the '80s is entering a pretty maintenance-intensive phase of its life.  Stuff like rubber seals, bearings, gaskets, cables, basiclly anything made of rubber might be worn out and need to be replaced.  

It sucks to have to spend a lot of time wrenching on your first bike, you want a bike to RIDE, not a project.  I'd suggest something a little newer, like a GS500 or EX500.  The Yamaha Seca II is a great stater as well.

I don't really have a problem having a project bike, I'd actually like to find one that is in great running condition but is cheaper because of the body condition. I like to tinker and I've got connections to get a pretty damn good paint job on a labor exchange basis. I would have wanted that one repainted anyway since it was blue. The red looks a lot better as far as I'm concerned. I looked around and parts seem to be available. My grandpa is a mechanic and works on all of his bikes so the him helping me makes the labor free if I should ever have any major problems (knock on wood).

The bike I found on craigslist doesn't seem to be a possibility anyway. I emailed the guy sine there was no phone number given and never got a reply (assume he checks his mail once per day). I'm kinda getting tired of never getting a reply from anyone, this happened with another guy when I requested pictures... I'm approaching the period where I won't be able to go look at a bike until after graduation anyway now.

-B&C

[nater]

I don't really have a problem having a project bike, I'd actually like to find one that is in great running condition but is cheaper because of the body condition. I like to tinker and I've got connections to get a pretty damn good paint job on a labor exchange basis. I would have wanted that one repainted anyway since it was blue. The red looks a lot better as far as I'm concerned. I looked around and parts seem to be available. My grandpa is a mechanic and works on all of his bikes so the him helping me makes the labor free if I should ever have any major problems (knock on wood).

The bike I found on craigslist doesn't seem to be a possibility anyway. I emailed the guy sine there was no phone number given and never got a reply (assume he checks his mail once per day). I'm kinda getting tired of never getting a reply from anyone, this happened with another guy when I requested pictures... I'm approaching the period where I won't be able to go look at a bike until after graduation anyway now.

-B&C

For $1500 or so you could get a 95 GS500 or an EX500 like someone else mentioned.  All of the rubber seals and hoses would be in better shape.

[FiremanBob]

'Busa.

[Marcster]

I can appreciate the desire to keep the cost down (my first bike back in '03 cost $900) but keep in mind that any bike from the '80s is entering a pretty maintenance-intensive phase of its life.  Stuff like rubber seals, bearings, gaskets, cables, basiclly anything made of rubber might be worn out and need to be replaced.   

It sucks to have to spend a lot of time wrenching on your first bike, you want a bike to RIDE, not a project.  I'd suggest something a little newer, like a GS500 or EX500.  The Yamaha Seca II is a great stater as well.

I can vouch for all of those points...

As I understand it, BlackAndChrome wants to keep the costs down.  Another bike I would suggest would be a dual-sport, such as a KLR650 or DR650, even a DR-Z400s.  Single-cylinder, bullet-proof technology, easy to wrench if you are interested, they're also modestly powered so you shouldn't be able to get too far ahead of your riding ability. 

At 6'2", a KLR should be quite comfortable, size-wise.

Dual-sports and cruisers have the lowest insurance rates of the various styles of motorcycles, which is going to be very important since you are so young.

Now, Kansas doesn't really cry out as a place to do a lot of off-road trail riding so I am guessing that the resale values are going to be lower  than say Colorado or California (better for you as a buyer).

There are a whole host of accessories you can add to a dual-sport to make it a great sport-tourer.

[BlackAndChrome]

'Busa.

lol, That would fall under the, "my parents shoot down anything that looks like a sportbike" category.

I found a gs500 on craigslist. 1990 with 25,000 miles for $1,500. I'll have to ask the insurance company for a quote on that bike.

I guess the reason why I like the Nighthawk so much is because I would like a bike that stands out but still looks good and is hopefully not a high priority bike for thieves.

Not really a big fan of the dual sport. I'd rather stick with a strictly street motorcycle since I have no intention of using it for trails.

-B&C

[Marcster]

I found a gs500 on craigslist. 1990 with 25,000 miles for $1,500. I'll have to ask the insurance company for a quote on that bike.

The GS500 is a good bike...  Simple as a brick, upright riding position, tried and true technology...

Here's a thread for you: http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,34215.0.html

The price for that 1990 sounds a bit high though.  That's a $1,000 - $1,200 bike.  

As an example, I paid $1999 for my 2000 Yamaha Diversion (Seca II) with 24K miles on it and that's a 10 year newer bike with more power than the GS500.  Not that I'm saying that the GS500 is underpowered, just giving you a comparison for price.

You could certainly look for a Suzuki Bandit 600 or a Seca II.

[phoenix]

http://desmoines.craigslist.org/mcy/1691316836.html

1996 suzuki bandit 600, $1700

IMO, you are shopping for bikes that are too old.

[M]

For any bike older then 3-5 years old, you need to keep in mind all the components that wear out due to age. These include tires, all fluids, hoses, brake lines, etc.

On any used bike, assume all need replacement unless the owner can document which ones have been replaced. If you aren't mechanically included, the parts/labor cost can be staggering.


Regards,

Michael
Broken Arrow, OK

[falconati]

IMO, you are shopping for bikes that are too old.

This was my first thought.

[ANZAC]

You can't go wrong with the Nighthawk 700s.  I have a 1986 and love it    The bike is very forgiving and easy to handle but it still has lots of juice if you need it.  It was the hot rod Nighthawk of it's day and it has lots of Interceptor parts on it.

These bike are real tough and can take a beating but shop carefully and check it over well.   Make sure you put on new tires, change all the fluids and you will have a great bike that will last for years.

I still get lots of comments for people that say they had wished they never got rid of their Nighthawk    So, find a good one and hang onto it.

[BlackAndChrome]

Well I'm still in the market as of now. I graduate Friday and soon after I have a national tournament that I will be getting back from on the 28th. After that it's time to start seriously shopping. I still can't help but want the Nighthawk. I'm yet to hear anything bad about them and I think aging rubber is well within my abilities to replace. I''m seriously considering the GS500 as a possibility also so it will probably wind up being which one presents a good opportunity first. I'll get back on and post some pictures of bikes that I'm looking at for a good price quote when the time comes but that will be a few week.

Thanks for the help guys,
-B&C

[Bravo12]

The GS500 is a good bike...  Simple as a brick, upright riding position, tried and true technology...

Here's a thread for you: http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,34215.0.html

The price for that 1990 sounds a bit high though.  That's a $1,000 - $1,200 bike.

I paid $1500 for a 1989 GS500E (with 12k on the odo) in 1994.  A 20-year-old model should be closer to $1k.  Great bike, though; all it needed was new fork springs and tires and I was hanging with the noobs on their GSXRs.

[jspringator]

Well I'm still in the market as of now. I graduate Friday and soon after I have a national tournament that I will be getting back from on the 28th. After that it's time to start seriously shopping. I still can't help but want the Nighthawk. I'm yet to hear anything bad about them and I think aging rubber is well within my abilities to replace. I''m seriously considering the GS500 as a possibility also so it will probably wind up being which one presents a good opportunity first. I'll get back on and post some pictures of bikes that I'm looking at for a good price quote when the time comes but that will be a few week.

Thanks for the help guys,
-B&C

Hit the Nighthawk-Forums.com.  I have the 85 650 (CB650SC) and I really like it as a beginners machine.  These bikes are very powerful, but only above 7,000 RPM.  I operate it at the lower RPM ranges and it does fine. If I need the extra power, it is there.  I had to replace the front rotors.  I replaced the shocks because someone lowered it.  I changed out the handlebars for those from a 82 Aspencade (Gold Wing).  I added a Corbin seat, and a Plexifaring 3.  Rifle makes a nice fairing for both bikes.  I have probably over improved it, but I really like the way it looks.  It looks like a motorcycle.  With a fairing and some luggage it wouldn't be a bad tourer.  Parts are readilly available.  Even a 5 year old bike will need new tires and fluids.  The 80s were the golden years for Honda IMHO.

[BlackAndChrome]

Just found this ad on craigslist. I would like everyone's opinion on this type of craigslist posting.

I already talked to the guy and he says he owns a bikeshop and has too many projects so he wants to get rid of it, says they'll be up most of the night working on a chopper. Something this rash strikes me as very odd but at the same time I'd really like to believe. Although this technique could be used by someone trying to scam it could also be used by someone that is sincerely trying to get rid of a bike ASAP. Would a transaction of this type be safe? Assuming that I meet him at the shop and ask for some ID so that I know I have the guys real name? Perhaps even call the local police department to make sure the bike hasn't been reported as stolen? I suppose if the title matches the guys name then it's definately OK right? I'm going to do my best to go look at it early tomorrow morning since I have no doubt that it will be gone by tomorrow night (based on the last few nighthawks I've seen on craigslist). I think either way I would like to go take a look at it and see if things seem at all fishy when I get there.

To me it doesn't seem like this would be a good bike to steal and resell considering it's fairly individual and doesn't have a tremendous market. It seems like Ninjas would be far more likely to be targeted like that.

19K miles by the way

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1767531564.html

-B&C

[falconati]

Yeah, not sure...'tonight only' screams 'i stole this'

[phoenix]

if he is a bike mechanic/builder, I'd say "clean the carbs and then I'll give ya 750."
I mean, if you're really interested in that bike.

[BlackAndChrome]

What was described to me as "Mechanically perfect other than gunked up carbs" turned out being an absolute piece of junk. The bike hadn't been run since 07 first of all. It did idle after being started with ether but would not throttle at all. This guy tried to pass off old oil caramelized on the head from an obvious head gasket leak as "gasoline that spilled out of the tank". It was only firing on 3 cylinders and the mufflers were both rusted almost through. Fork seals were shot. Overall the bike was in bad shape, it did not look like it had been dropped but anything that was originally painted had been sprayed over with spray paint. And he dodged around the fact that the title was not in his name simply expressing that "It was legit".

I've got another bike that I'm going to go look at tomorrow morning from someone that is hopefully a little more truthful, $1200 that I will hopefully be able to talk down to $1000 if it's even worth getting. Still looking around for a GS500 but can't seem to find anything older than 2004 oddly. And as of right now I only have about $1400 total to get me a bike and gear (was supposed to get me a laptop too  )

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1744782959.html
44K miles on the bike but the engine has been rebuilt recently, not sure what to think about that, whether it means it's in good running condition or that it was abused. What's the consensus
 on rebuilt engines in bikes?

-B&C

[Zerosum]

Depends on who rebuilt it, and how many parts were left over when they were done.

Personally, I wouldn't look twice at a bike that had had its engine rebuilt.  Modern Japanese bikes are so reliable that the the only way they would need a rebuild is if they were a) abused, or b) had over 100K miles on them.   There's too many nice bikes out there to waste your time on a potential turd, IMO.

[Cale_Kat]

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1726255963.html

Spend a little more and get a good bike like this Katana. It will work out well for someone with little or no experience and looking for an inexpensive bike. Good fuel economy, good ergos, bullet-proof engine. Decent components. Bike from 1984 are the sort of bike for someone that has another bike they can rely. Or they don't really care if the bike works or not. If you're looking for transportation, get something decent. Just my $.20.

[Marcster]

Ninja 250 w/2K for $1,600:



http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1769562810.html

---------

Many people will say that you can get bored with a 250 Ninja in short order, but because they are regarded as "starter bikes", they are always in demand and you should have no trouble selling it for very close to what you paid for it.  

A 2006 bike is definitely new enough that you will get to ride, not call up the shop asking when they're going to be done with your bike this time.

[BlackAndChrome]

The katana has significantly higher insurance (I have to pay for $1,000,000 liability under my parents plan). The Ninja and the GS 500 are slightly higher (obviously worth it though since they are newer). The problem with the ninja is my parents (especially mother who is illogical) will shoot it down "because it's a Ninja" despite the fact that the Nighthawk has 3x the displacement and twice as much torque. It's an argument that if I won (I would) she would likely break down in tears about how she doesn't want me to get a motorcycle and then I would have to revert back to "fine I won't get a Ninja" to appease her...

-B&C

[Marcster]

The katana has significantly higher insurance (I have to pay for $1,000,000 liability under my parents plan). The Ninja and the GS 500 are slightly higher (obviously worth it though since they are newer). The problem with the ninja is my parents (especially mother who is illogical) will shoot it down "because it's a Ninja" despite the fact that the Nighthawk has 3x the displacement and twice as much torque. It's an argument that if I won (I would) she would likely break down in tears about how she doesn't want me to get a motorcycle and then I would have to revert back to "fine I won't get a Ninja" to appease her...

-B&C

Reviews like this may or may not help you, but it's worth a shot...
http://www.bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/kawasaki-ninja-250-review

Now you can get into trouble on any bike, but a lower-displacement bike will be lighter (easier to maneuver at parking lot speeds and easier to pick up if you do have a tipover) and is more forgiving if you dump the clutch (you won't be riding a rocket).

[BlackAndChrome]

I'll email it to her and see what she says  

[BlackAndChrome]

This was the resulting dialogue.

Me: Did you look at the article?
Mother: Yes
Me: and?
Mother: It looks like a crotch rocket...
Me: But it-
Mother: Doesn't matter it looks like a crotch rocket...
Me:

Yeah... So the Ninja is a no go as originally suspected. It was a nice thought though.

[Marcster]

Yeah... So the Ninja is a no go as originally suspected. It was a nice thought though.

That's a shame...

If motorcycles were dogs, the Ninja 250 is a small terrier, not a pit bull, German shepherd or greyhound.

Another way to put it, the Ninja 250's sportbike looks are like slapping a spoiler and ground effects on a Honda Civic -- unless you tweak the engine, it's still just a basic car.

[BlackAndChrome]

Another way to put it, the Ninja 250's sportbike looks are like slapping a spoiler and ground effects on a Honda Civic -- unless you tweak the engine, it's still just a basic car.

More truth than you know. They bought my first car that I drive, a 99 2 door Civic EX (5 speed) with an oddly large although stock spoiler. It looks somewhat sporty but it has a single cam 1.2L engine  and I have to turn off the A/C to accelerate to highway speeds... I suppose I could make this argument as well... Even if I can convince them I think getting a Ninja will just be one more reason for them to dislike the thought of me riding a motorcycle.

Unless you can come up with an effective argument as to why a low profile riding stance is safer than an upward sitting one... I guess that's their main argument is that it's too hunched over...

[Cale_Kat]

(I have to pay for $1,000,000 liability under my parents plan).

Wow, that's a lot of damage to someone else's property and bodily injury to be doing with a motorcycle.

[Marcster]

More truth than you know. They bought my first car that I drive, a 99 2 door Civic EX (5 speed) with an oddly large although stock spoiler. It looks somewhat sporty but it has a single cam 1.2L engine  and I have to turn off the A/C to accelerate to highway speeds... I suppose I could make this argument as well... Even if I can convince them I think getting a Ninja will just be one more reason for them to dislike the thought of me riding a motorcycle.

Unless you can come up with an effective argument as to why a low profile riding stance is safer than an upward sitting one... I guess that's their main argument is that it's too hunched over...

Well, you'll win that argument, hands down!

You NEED to get them to see you sitting on the bike!  The Ninja 250 and even the Ninja 500 and the Ninja 650r have extremely upright riding positions.  It's the Ninja ZX-series bikes that are true sportbikes complete with the uncomfortable riding positions.

The Ninja 250, 500 and 650r motorcycles are really just "standard" motorcycles with full body cladding.

Here are some riders on Ninja 250 motorcycles -- notice how upright their riding position is:



Here's some other reviews I came across for your arsenal:

"At only 304 lbs., the Ninja 250R is a small bike with little physical presence out on the road. This helps make the machine ridiculously maneuverable and easy to handle for just about anybody. We think this fact alone makes the 250 one of the best bikes available for new street riders – it’s certainly the bike we’d want our young son on if he was just venturing out onto the pavement. This bike is as manageable as anything on the planet, doesn’t have enough engine performance to quickly get you in trouble, has quick hitting brakes and gets about a zillion miles to a gallon of fuel."

"and when our six testers were asked which of the four bikes they would purchase, the Ninja got the nod four times, making it our $4000 Newbie Shootout winner."

http://www.motorsports-network.com/kawasaki/07street/250Rtest06.htm

-------

"The Kawasaki's 29.3-inch seat height was manageable for our riders. When ranking the ergonomics, our three female testers, along with yours truly, rated the Ninja first. It presents a more neutral riding position, which is much closer to the traditional "standard" position than the feet-back/shoulders-forward aggressive sportbike stance. The Ninja positions the rider upright, with a slight pitch forward to the bars and the legs hugging the tank for stability. Hand controls are within easy reach and the foot controls are placed in just the right spots, giving the Ninja a natural feel."

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/8/616/Motorcycle-Article/2006-Newbie-Bike-Comparo.aspx

Wow, that's a lot of damage to someone else's property and bodily injury to be doing with a motorcycle.

That's what I had on my motorcycle, when I had it.  If you cause a 2+ car pile-up -- it does add up quickly.  For me it was only a few dollars more than lesser coverage (like the cost of a pizza per year type of difference).

[JimNtexas]

I own a Ninja 250, it's the perfect beginner bike, but it's probably a bit small for someone over six feet.  

I'd strongly you suggest you at least get a bike that is younger than you are.  

One of the more standard 500-650cc bikes that others have suggested would be good for you, especially since you're willing to buy one with fairing damage

The other alternative that would also be great for a tall person is one of the dual sport bikes like the VStrom.

[BlackAndChrome]

She actually did some more research, unfortunately with the intent of finding more ammo against sport bikes...

This website does a good job of grouping 250s and 1300 super sports into the same category and making them sound like the same thing.

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/school-SectionThree.htm

When I told her how Marcster said a 250 has an upward seating position she discredited that thought with something like, "of course he says that, he's a rider", apparently that means everyone that rides a motorcycle is entirely biased. Then I showed her the pictures and that thought (and the basis of her argument) was gone. She replied with, "it's still a sport bike". I rebudled with, "yes, but it has a small engine and and upward seating position, what are you even arguing about?". Then she cried...

So I guess I won. Trouble is winning isn't enough, I'll have to get her to agree somehow... I'll have to see if I can find pictures of a ninja with and without the engine cover and fairing.

[Marcster]

So I guess I won. Trouble is winning isn't enough, I'll have to get her to agree somehow... I'll have to see if I can find pictures of a ninja with and without the engine cover and fairing.

You need to get your mom to go with you to a Kawasaki dealer.  Sit on a Ninja 250, have her take note of the riding position.  Then go sit on one of the ZX series Ninjas.  She will have to admit that the riding positions are dramatically different...  

Now, the bodystyle of the 250 changed back in 2008, but the previous generation (the one you are going be buying based on your budget), is even less sportsbike-like in it's appearance.  

A Kawasaki dealer might even have a used Ninja 250 on the floor too -- they're pretty popular.

And if any sales help ask to help you, just be polite and explain the situation.  They might have a Ninja in for service that they can show your mom without all the cladding.

Barring that, a Ninja 250 with all of the cladding removed (on purpose), also known as "naked" or as a "street fighter" looks like this:

[Marcster]

Here's another bike:

[BlackAndChrome]

I left pictures of a GS500 and a GS500f up on her desktop side by side and a note to express that they are almost identical, I think she gets the point. She agreed to go to a dealer and look at them.

[BlackAndChrome]

My dad thinks the ninja is reasonable, my mom on the other hand has this image of sport bikes that makes her totally against me getting one just based on looks. I am no longer allowed to argue with her about it, the decision is my own to make, but it is ill-advised that I buy anything that is fully faired as to not increase the stress level of me getting a bike. So back to the GS500 or SV650... Although I'll admit if I find a Nighthawk that is in great shape for a good price first I may still have to buy it.

[UHOH]

So back to the GS500 or SV650...

that's not going backwards at all.

[BlackAndChrome]

Yeah... Not much sense in fighting it though, most of my friends can't get a bike at all due to parental issues.

On a positive note I just got accepted for a job at my local best buy. Not the greatest pay (I'm kinda over qualified so hopefully I can get it up pretty quick) but it's work. I can now justify buying some decent gear. Just registered for a riding class at KC Kansas community college also, that starts on the 18th.

[Marcster]

Yeah... Not much sense in fighting it though, most of my friends can't get a bike at all due to parental issues.

On a positive note I just got accepted for a job at my local best buy. Not the greatest pay (I'm kinda over qualified so hopefully I can get it up pretty quick) but it's work. I can now justify buying some decent gear. Just registered for a riding class at KC Kansas community college also, that starts on the 18th.

Sounds like you are off to a good start and have your head on straight!  The MSF class is not perfect, but it's the best thing out there right now.

Kansas heat?    Riding slow speed on hot bikes on a hot parking lot?  Bring a few bottles of water for the breaks on the riding days - you're gonna want it!

[BlackAndChrome]

My dad did say that I could get a Ninja 250 if I took the fairing off of it but I'm not sure that I like the looks of a naked 250. They obviously were not designed to be naked.

I have a feeling I may have to broaden my choices to include cruisers if I want to get a bike at all this summer. Craigslist prices are way higher than what I've been told they should be, probably ridiculously high demand after the cold winter we had. I've registered for an account on ADVrider to post there but am waiting for mod approval (they sure are stingy about bot prevention).

Been skimming craigslist for the last hour (really he only place I have to look), and I'm kinda getting bummed out because skimming through for bikes in my price range all I see is dirtbikes, half of them children's  

[Marcster]

My dad did say that I could get a Ninja 250 if I took the fairing off of it

I know that you know it, but there is absolutely no logic in their thinking...  

In regards to expanding your horizons, you may recall that I was suggesting a DR650, KLR 650 or DR-Z400s when you first started this thread.  Dual-sports and cruisers have the cheapest insurance.  Dual-sports are also very newbie-friendly.

Unfortunately, you're heading into prime riding season -- that's why you are seeing the prices tick upwards.  In October you'll see them head back down again...

Don't forget to check out www.searchtempest.com -- that will search multiple Craigslists at the same time.  Ebay wouldn't be bad either if you find a seller nearby that you can go see the bike; usually they'll say that in their listing.

Another place you can try is www.cycletrader.com -- that is used buy many dealers to list their new and used.

[Marcster]

Don't forget about the Suzuki Bandit 600s and the Yamaha Seca II -- they are both "standard" motorcycles.  Nothing flashy...

Here are a few on Craigslist:

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1767197764.html (although the $250 for a tankbag and soft saddlebags is a major ripoff)
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1755785279.html (fewer details are hard to come by)
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1712481688.html

A Bandit 400 makes a good starter bike too, but at 6'2", you are too tall for it.  You're pretty tall for a Ninja 250 as it is, but the Bandit 400 is really for people who are like 5'5" and under.

I am 6' tall with a 32" inseam.  I felt a bit tall for my Diversion (Seca II).  Basically the seat and pegs were too close together.  It's not that big of a deal if you take a break on a regular basis and since you are younger than me it may not even bother you.

I sat on a GS500f in a showroom and it was one of the most comfortable bikes I ever sat on, along with a Honda 599 (but the 599 goes for ultra-premuim prices).

A KLR is another comfortable bike for tall folks, plenty of room to stretch out.

[UHOH]

 I'm kinda getting bummed out because skimming through for bikes in my price range all I see is dirtbikes, half of them children's  

Remember that you will not get your dream bike right out of the chute; nobody does.

... your price range?  

[BlackAndChrome]

... your price range?  

$1200 is about every penny I have. Haven't counted the cash in awhile though and I just took some out for gear, but I tried to account for that.

[Cale_Kat]

One of the tougher lessons in life is knowing when to let go of a dream so you can get on with the important things in life.

I really sounds as though this forum is providing some of the main counsel for this purchase and as such, I've got to inform you, you're getting about only 1/8th of the ownership picture.

Your limited funds will only insure that the bike you're riding will meet minimal safety requirements, you'll get minimal gear or substitute inappropriate items (like hiking boots for motorcycle boots) and you'll have little or no funds to support the considerable expense of owning the motorcycle.

I don't know why you want to ride. (I know why I ride but it's different for everyone.) But my recommendation is to take your $1,200 and save it for college. Spending it on a motorcycle now would be a huge waste.

[UHOH]

^^^  as Martin Luther King said, "I have a dream..."

[BlackAndChrome]

I want to get a bike because I plan on riding it at college. The campus has lots of accommodations for motorcycles. When I went to tour the campus (during even a hot summer day) almost all if not all of the car spots were full but more than half the motorcycle slots (at the closest most convenient edge of the parking lot) were available.

I won't be buying a bike that is a piece of junk. It may not be new or look good but it will function well.

I'm buying the good gear. There's a reason why I don't have more money for a bike...
http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,53550.0/all.html

I have a job, technically I have two at this point. I am not draining my life savings on this. I have another $1500 and more money in bonds besides the $1200 I want to spend on a motorcycle.

[Cale_Kat]

B&C, Since this is in the beginner's garage, I'll take the liberty to offer some advice that beginner's can benefit from.

One of the best studies about the risks motorcyclist face is the Hurt Report. It is a very worthwhile read. http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~john/vfr/hurt.html

College campuses are populated by teen and early-twenties drivers that statistics show have the highest rate of accidents of any age group. This is an extremely hazardous environment for a motorcyclist. Not only are densely populated areas hazardous for motorcyclists but beginner motorcyclists are most likely to be involved in accidents (Hurt says, "More than half of the accident-involved motorcycle riders had less than 5 months experience on the accident motorcycle...")

Hurt says, "Craftsmen, laborers, and students comprise most of the accident-involved motorcycle riders."

Distracted drivers are more likely to be in accidents. This is significant because both you and the other drivers are likely to be very distracted by school concerns. "Preoccupied" is a word that comes to mind.

"Most motorcycle accidents involve a short trip associated with shopping, errands, friends, entertainment or recreation, and the accident is likely to happen in a very short time close to the trip origin."

You sound very sincere and I understand the rationale behind the motorcycle but learning to ride a motorcycle should not be accompanied by the pressures of class schedules, a reliance on the motorcycle as a primary means of transportation (riding at night, in the rain, when you're tired, when you don't feel well, etc.), and in a in a region which is unfamiliar.

Give it a lot of thought. I don't win any fans writing these comments but too many motorcyclists have been injured because they have not completely understood or have ignored the risks.

[UHOH]

^^^ isn't there a song about raining on my parade, or something like that.

jeez, when I needed transportation in college, and to my summer job, my 1st vehicle was a m/c,
and 'cepting for my twitch, I turned out OK.

[BlackAndChrome]

Note taken and it's nice to see that someone is there to play the level headed downer. The Hurt Report did have some interesting facts in it but some things seemed a little off, not applicable, or in my favor.

First off this report is in the Los Angeles area. LA has a population density of 7,876 people per square mile. Manhattan has just shy of 3,000 ppsm (2000 census on both). I'm not a big fan of heavy traffic and I'm far more likely to trash my 5-speed Civic than a bike, plus I"d rather be run over on a motorcycle than run over a motorcycle, this being due to guilt reasons.

Not sure whether this is in my favor or not...
"More than half of the accident-involved motorcycle riders had less than 5 months experience on the accident motorcycle... ...although the total street riding experience was almost 3 years."

I've got a leg up on this one.
"The motorcycle riders involved in accidents are essentially without training; 92% were self-taught or learned from family or friends. Motorcycle rider training experience reduces accident involvement and is related to reduced injuries in the event of accidents."

It's also worth mentioning that I will be taking my car as well for rainy days and days when a motorcycle feels like a bad idea.

How about this one. called and talked to the guy on the phone, didn't sound like an idiot, did sound like he took great care of his bike. Said it runs perfect no problems at all. Oddly he listed it while he was out of town so he's supposed to call me when he gets back in a week. It sounded like I was the first person to call so hopefully I'll get the first look at it.

http://lawrence.craigslist.org/mcy/1776112401.html

[Cale_Kat]

Discounting risks is how a great many motorcyclists end up injured. I like being able to walk without a limp, use all my fingers to type, etc. I tend to consider risks to be greater than they are, just to be on the safe side. Motorcycle meets car is a really bad combination.

Taking a car and motorcycle to school? Sounds like you'll have all the appropriate toys for a freshman.

[BlackAndChrome]

I do not deny that there is a risk. There is always a risk, I don't deny that there is a greater risk when I go to college then when I'm cruising around my semi-rural home area of Kansas. I can't say for myself how riding a bike at K-state will be, part of it will be decided after I get there whether or not it is worth the risk. If it turn out to be more danger than it's worth I'll take it back home at semester and leave it for when I'm in town. But then there is the fact that I'm paying to insure a bike that I ride 2 days per month. Either way I'd at least like to get a bike and enjoy riding it during the last of summer. This is all assuming I even get a bike that is in my budget.

[Cale_Kat]

I do not deny that there is a risk. There is always a risk,...

I see that Kansas has a helmet law for 17 and younger only. I know you're planning to buy a full face helmet but hope you'll swear to your family that you'll always wear it, no matter how hot it is, how far away from traffic you are, how short your trip, etc.

Ride safe.

Cale

[BlackAndChrome]

Definitely not a problem with me. Not much sense in spending money on a helmet if your going to take the chance of getting killed because your not wearing one anyway. Even if I have to store it in the freezer before I leave to go ride, although rapid temp changes may not be to good on a helmet. Just the fridge them  

[James]

Just saw this thread- as it turns out, I'm a motorcycle rider in Manhattan, KS that works @KSU. Currently off the bike due to an accident Tuesday before last (someone turned left into me, I missed them but slid on sand in the intersection, came down on my r. shoulder, breaking my scapula & 2 ribs). Had basically the same injuries 11 years ago on the other side when I hit a deer in NM. Have several hundred thousand miles on a bike, but sometimes things happen. KSU offers great  parking (and much cheaper) for a bike. Spots can be hard to find in some areas in nice weather, but I pretty much have my own spot m-f . First month or so of school everyone seems to drive like they just got a license by bribing someone. Gets better after that. Usually around 10-15 days a year I can't ride due to weather, but I'm considered a bit crazy. You may find a bike here or in Lawrence right now as students leave & can't take them w/them. Otherwise you'll see riding weather prices till October when you get "I don't want to store it" prices. Good luck, & email when you get here & we can chat.

[BlackAndChrome]

The bike that I found is in Lawrence. I think just the fact that it's listed outside of the KC MO craigslist means it gets less then half the attention. Hopefully it will turn out in my favor. Nice to hear from someone who actually rides in Manhattan, pretty slim chances of that.

Other than the initial rush at the beginning of the year what's the traffic like for motorcycle commuting? What's your opinion on a new riding moving around the area?

[Cale_Kat]

James, Heal up fast. At least it wasn't a deer this time.

B&C, Take note. There are very real people behind these risk statistics.

(This one includes some cool 3D images, http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,46089.0.html)

[phoenix]

Just looked up some K-State info.
I went to Iowa State U back in teh day. The ISU campus is very similar in layout to KSU.
I lived on campus for the first 2 years and then moved off campus. When I lived on campus, it was a short walk to class. Rarely needed a car for anything.
After moving off campus, a bus pass took care of me most of the time. Carpooled with roomates the rest of the time.
On a college campus, I think a motorcycle has minimal use. It would not have been helpful to me. Did I want to own a motorcycle back then? Sure. But I was broke and any money I had either went to school or to pay for beer.

during my first semester at ISU, I saw the aftermath of a motorcycle accident just a block from my residence hall. 2 fatalities. Bad.

[James]

Traffic isn't that bad most of the time. And if you live in the dorms, you wouldn't need anything on campus, but as we have no public transportation, you would need something to head to wallyworld, ect. Like any new place, there's a small learning curve for a new town, we have a few traffic circles now & they're building a new one as I type on a main road (Bluemont). The basic layout of town is easy to figure out and, as always, parking is easier on a bike . As a new rider, I'd stick to the basics- When on the bike, that's all you're doing. Paying attention, have your route pre-planned, ect. Everyone is trying to kill you, and has no idea where they're going. Confidence comes well before competence, if we can ever truly be considered competent. Know more about yourself & the bike every day (forever). And try not to fall down .        

[BlackAndChrome]

I began to look at the layout of KSU and it appears that I will be doing a lot of short distance walking as described. Assuming I get into the Goodnow dorms most of my classes are in Rathbone hall (computer Engineer). The distance in between the two is about the length of Goodnow Hall itself.

Now I'm second guessing myself and I feel like I'll be regretting either decision...

On one hand I really want a motorcycle

Pros:
I get a motorcycle, wind in the hair, feeling of freedom, etc. etc.
Get the rest of the summer to ride
Easier to maneuver
Convenient to park
Cheaper permit.
Can drive girlfriends car when needed
Good gas mileage

Cons:
Increased chance of serious injury or death
Less... I mean no funds for laptop, lots more work this summer to get some.
Laptop "debt" adds to the $2k that I need to make to cover what student loans won't
Gear and possibly upkeep is expensive.

On the other hand I feel like waiting and sticking with a car for now would be more responsible

Pros:
A/C and don't have to worry about rain
Safer if in a wreck
No long distance fatigue (2 hour drive to home)
Save $1500 and get a good laptop immediately
I'm working for extra cash instead of essentially paying for what I've already bought

Cons:
Harder to park when I need to drive
More expensive permit
More likely to wreck because of my error
Not as good gas mileage (30MPG isn't too bad though)

I think more than anything I'm thinking about how much work is going to kick my ass if I have to pay for a bike and a laptop. Especially how hard I'm going to have to fight if they don't want to give me full time at Best Buy. If I can get more hours and a wage increase then the decision would be a clearer one.

Perhaps putting it off for now would be the responsible thing to do. Damn responsibilities... At least till this winter and if I have enough money I could snag a off season deal... In that case I would wait till summer to even ride it since there's less traffic at home... But then return to KSU knowing the roads from the previous year.

I'm still scheduled to go look at that bike in Lawrence as of now, and I have already paid for the MSF course.

Anyone care to make the decision for me?

[nater]

Get a car first.  Riding in the rain is not my idea of fun.

There are less costly laptops out there.  Get the $500 version (MS Word and the internet will work on the cheaper on as well).

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Wait for the bike. Slowly build up your gear arsenal, picking up deals as you happen across them. ALWAYS keep a third eye open for the Ultimate Deal on a bike, but not really planning to buy until the fall. This will give you more time to save up some money, more time to get the course done and read up on some books (David Hough "Proficient Motorcyclist" has been mentioned, I believe) and also do a lot more research on various motorcycles. You can also take the time to figure out "other" costs, like insurance, tires, maintenance (how good are you at working on mechanical stuff? Will you be able to do your own oil change? Adjust valves?)

Sure, you miss out on a summer of the wind in your hair, but I think that this time is worth taking in order to go into it with as little stress as possible.  

[UHOH]

^^^  nobody here wants B&C to be himself.
... his parents know him and they're supportive!!

The only things in life you'll regret are the things you didn't do.

[Cale_Kat]

"The only things in life you'll regret are the things you didn't do."

That's heavy but... I can think of about a dozen things in life I did but now regret. Let's see... there was marrying my college sweetheart. That was a doozie.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

^^^  nobody here wants B&C to be himself.
... his parents know him and they're supportive!!

The only things in life you'll regret are the things you didn't do.

I'm not telling him not to get a bike. I want him to get a bike (since that's what he wants). But he's expressed concern about finances and finding "the right bike" and working it all into the equation. Waiting a few months shouldn't hurt, especially if he's serious about riding. I think the reasons I gave for waiting 'til fall were valid  Besides, if he's already working two jobs to support his moto habit, that doesn't leave much room for riding anyway, does it?  

I have no regrets (other than not buying that house I was renting in Seattle) but I've also been patient in waiting to get what I want.

[Marcster]

I think I would echo some of the comments posed by others...

Wait for a bike till you are financially secure.  That very well may not be until after you graduate, but it's not the end of the world.

There are far more things in college that will be more necessary (like books and laptops) than a "luxury" like a motorcycle.

A bicycle will get you around campus...

[BlackAndChrome]

There are less costly laptops out there.  Get the $500 version (MS Word and the internet will work on the cheaper on as well).

Yeah I don't plan on spending $1500 on a laptop, $500 is a bit low for what I want. $900 more likely

Guess I'll still take the MSF course.

I shall return hopefully this fall when I hopefully begin looking for a bike again, thanks for the help everyone.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Yeah I don't plan on spending $1500 on a laptop, $500 is a bit low for what I want. $900 more likely

You should be able to get something good for that price  

Guess I'll still take the MSF course.

Of course you should! That way "you're ready" when the perfect bike comes along

I shall return hopefully this fall when I hopefully begin looking for a bike again, thanks for the help everyone.

Stick around - you can learn a lot by poking around the non-Political threads  

[Cale_Kat]

I wouldn't bother with the MSF course. Don't get me wrong, I want you to ride. (I haven't a clue what Mrs. Dame is talking about "non-political". She's a peach though. )

Look at it this way, you've got so much time ahead of you that there's no rush to do anything except to do your best in college. Get out of college in one piece. You'll have gained about a zillion more smarts (I'm not saying you aren't smart, you might be brilliant for all I know) and you can use that and experience to make the choices you really care about.

But taking the MSF course now is only going to make you want to ride. Sort like a tour of the JD factory for an AA group. Besides, the MSF course pays enormous dividends if you use what you learn right away and practice the proper techniques regularly. It's really for people that are going to ride, not going to ride sometime later.

Good luck with your studies.

Cale

[Marcster]

I wouldn't bother with the MSF course. Don't get me wrong, I want you to ride. (I haven't a clue what Mrs. Dame is talking about "non-political". She's a peach though. )

Look at it this way, you've got so much time ahead of you that there's no rush to do anything except to do your best in college. Get out of college in one piece. You'll have gained about a zillion more smarts (I'm not saying you aren't smart, you might be brilliant for all I know) and you can use that and experience to make the choices you really care about.

But taking the MSF course now is only going to make you want to ride. Sort like a tour of the JD factory for an AA group. Besides, the MSF course pays enormous dividends if you use what you learn right away and practice the proper techniques regularly. It's really for people that are going to ride, not going to ride sometime later.

Good luck with your studies.

Cale

Agreed -- if you don't start riding right away, you'll unfortunately forget much of it -- especially the "muscle memory" of working the clutch and whatnot.

If you paid to take the Beginner's Course now, go ahead and take it, but don't be surprised if you need to take it again if it's more than a year till you get your bike.

I don't know how it works in Kansas, but here in PA it's state-sponsored (and therefore free -- you can take it as many times as you'd like).

[KLRchickie]

I don't know how it works in Kansas, but here in PA it's state-sponsored (and therefore free -- you can take it as many times as you'd like).

WOW!

Here, all the riding courses are $everal hundred dollars & booked months in advance.  Here, if one was thinking of getting a bike within the next year or so, getting booked into the course now would be a good idea.

[UHOH]

am surprised / even disgusted with the opposition this cautious, motivated would be rider has received in this thread.
He comes to the experts in the field, asks in a forum for beginners for help in beginning - and he is very effectively told, 'Don't begin.'
That's what happened here.

didn't any of you ride a M/C when you were a teenager?   Really?
didn't any of you pick up your dates on the bike?   or get a date by offering an afternoon ride?
didn't any of you throw a sleeping bag and tarp on the back (& nothing else!) and head for the mtns?

. .

[Cale_Kat]

Disgusted? Really? That's pretty strong language to use against my thoughtful comments.

Get some perspective.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

I'd be more interesting B&C's reaction. After all, his is the only on that really counts in this thread.

[Marcster]

am surprised / even disgusted with the opposition this cautious, motivated would be rider has received in this thread.
He comes to the experts in the field, asks in a forum for beginners for help in beginning - and he is very effectively told, 'Don't begin.'
That's what happened here.

didn't any of you ride a M/C when you were a teenager?   Really?
didn't any of you pick up your dates on the bike?   or get a date by offering an afternoon ride?
didn't any of you throw a sleeping bag and tarp on the back (& nothing else!) and head for the mtns?

. .

I don't think that any of us are against B&C buying a motorcycle, but it sounds like money will be a bit tight while he is in college and he might be better off postponing such a purchase until the time when he can afford it without financial difficulty.  That's my $.02.

[BlackAndChrome]

Yeah UHOH I think everyone is on par with what is or isn't a good idea. I'd like to ride immediately but if I go ahead and get a bike now the only thing I would think about while riding it was how broke I am because of it. If I put it off for awhile it will most likely be a more pleasant and less stressful experience overall. Also less likely to get myself killed if I have a few extra months of practice before I take it to K-State with all those kamikaze drivers. Along with the fact that I'll be able to get a better deal on a bike instead of fighting every guy on craigslist to get the first look at a bike and see if I can throw the most money at it.

Sometimes a reality check can be worth a lot more than two thumbs up if it hurts in the short term but 10 fold benefits in the long run.

Sorry about skipping out for awhile, got REALLY distracted by trying to find the best laptop for the best price, as far as I know I did and it's on it's way to me now. Still $600 in the bank waiting to be put toward a bike next fall also.  

I'll see if I can get a full refund on the rider course and make sure I'm in the first class next summer, as stated the classes are by no means cheap ($200 here) and fill up about 1-2 months in advance.

[madmanmarz]

I didn't read this whole thing.

I started on a Kawi 750 (ZR-7) which is not much different from the Nighthawk. I too considered one and I really liked their looks, but as has been said, reliability with something that old will be an issue unless you're lucky (often times parts braking leads to people selling their bikes).

The problem with the 750's come down to weight and power. The midrange on these bikes hit fairy stout (especially for a new rider), and the weight will keep you from learning with the bike as you should. I recently transitioned to a 600 sportbike, and to me, it's much more well behaved in the sense that I really have to ask (downshift/rev the crap out of the engine) to get power out of it. On the other hand, it does almost 160 and wheelies by accident (the power is very deceptive).

Regardless, I know what you're thinking, you don't want one of the 500's because of looks (although naked they're alright and the GS isn't so bad). And also it would be nice to have a starter bike that will keep you happy down the line.

You will probably drop the bike, so the more you like the way it looks, the madder you're going to be when you go down.

With your height, you definitely want a starter that sits in the tourer/city bike kind of category as the riding position takes some getting used to. And the more comfortable you are, the more you will ride and the faster you will learn. This is why I would stay away from most faired bikes/anything with clipons.

Consider a late 90's 600, especially a naked. FZ6, bandit 600, etc unless you are willing to try a 500.

If I was to start out all over again, it would be on an '08+ 250r. They handle great, they look great, they're sporty enough and you will probably want to end up keeping it since it gets over 70mpg for running around town.

By the way, here are some ideas in your area (I didn't go through them individually)

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1792113405.html
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1787719071.html
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1776602140.html
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1767197764.html
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1764375689.html
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1766840358.html
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1757750401.html
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1777600103.html
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1796011076.html
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1788844436.html
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1791331327.html
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/1771044821.html

Some of these and others are probably a little too much to start with...just find some one older with lots of riding experience and take their lead and take your time and get to the track as soon as you can.

Oh yes and buy in the winter.

[bassjones]

You can get a great deal on a Suzuki 650F used right now and they'll be even better in the winter.  I too recommend saving up for a while and trying to spend in the $3000 range as you'll get a much newer and more reliable motorcycle that way.  Old bikes are great for a 2nd bike if you like to tinker, but for a daily ride I'd go newer.

[jdgretz]

When you get closer to purchasing give this tool a try http://www.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/mash.cgi?cat=cpmoto.  I use it quite a bit for finding bikes, cars, parts and other stuff^(tm).

It would be nice if your mom wasn't against the Ninja 250.  My step-son had one that his mother bought for him as a High School graduation present (until a Sheriff's Deputy hit him) and loved it.  He currently rides an '87 Ninja 600 and would trade it in a heartbeat for another nice '07 250 as he had more fun on that bike.  He is also just a tad over 6' and it fits him nicely.  Maybe you can find one without the Ninja label on the bike and call it by it's numerical designator - EX250?  

Keep us up to date on your progress - both as it relates to the bike and to college.

jdg