1200 Sport Brake Rotor Issues, Solutions

[MisterSmooth]

Biking Sailor, johnnyquest, JeffN, blakebird, et. al....

I took my Sport to the WCRM last weekend; rode it about 1,700 miles in five days.  All in all, it was great, in some ways best on the last day which was 480 miles, ridden in seven hours and fifteen minutes after which I was remarkably fresh.    And got almost 50 mpg.    Awesome stuff; that's one of the things that the Sport was supposed to do.

However, I've experienced my first little niggle and felt that it was important to pass on.  After about 1,500 miles (which included extensive riding in the rain) my Sport developed a remarkable brake pulsing at walking speeds.

I assumed that a rotor was warped (and indeed Moto International has already sent a warranty claim without arguing or even looking at the bike).

I've been doing forum searches, and this seems to be the one common issue with the 1200 Sport:  Some people get warped roters.  There is no conclusive evidence as to why, or why it happens on some bikes and not on others.



One possible solution is to install EBC type HH pads.  I'm not smart enough to know why this might work but it's a straightforward swap and I wish I'd done it at the first service.

Another possible soution is to make sure that the bobbins that hold on the rotor are free to let the rotor float.  I'm going to take a pass at mine tonight with a can of brake cleaner, a rubber mallet,    and a wooden dowel to make sure that none of them are bound up.  If they are, I'll ride the bike afterward and report the results.



I'm not trying to rain on our little Guzzi parade here; I love the bike.     But this seems to be one of those little foibles of Italian bike ownership; when I have more information I'll post it up.

[Orson]

I had warped rotors on my V11 at around 17,000 km.

I had them replaced and it's now at 60,000 km with no more problems.

[MisterSmooth]

I had warped rotors on my V11 at around 17,000 km.

I had them replaced and it's now at 60,000 km with no more problems.

Lemme see, seventeen thousand times point six one, add, carry the two, go get my calculator......that's about 10,000 miles.  And you've since gone 26,000 miles more with no issues.  That's totally acceptable.  

There are a number of theories why the rotors on the 1200 Sport seem particularly susceptible to warping.    The Breva and Norge have the same calipers and pads but different (non-wave) rotors.  Neither bike has a problem with warped rotors.

I'm going to experiment with the bobbins and report back to base.  

[chornbe]

Hmmm... here's a theory. Wave rotors cool faster, but contain less metal. In the valleys between the petal peaks, there's more opportunity to warp.

[Biking Sailor]

Thanks for the info...  Having this kind of communication on your experiences makes me wish I had mine NOW to check the rotors for movement.

Question, which rotor was it that warped, front right, left, or rear?

[garry]

FWIW, my KTM SMR (and many others) seem to do the same thing. What's weird is that stuff like remounting the front wheel after a tire change or cleaning the calipers (just because) seems to cure it for a while. And it doesn't always do it. So I'm not convinced it's a warped rotor or it should do it all the time, right? I suspect the floating disk doesn't always float or something like that. I need to have my rotors mic'd just to be sure...

[MisterSmooth]

Thanks for the info...  Having this kind of communication on your experiences makes me wish I had mine NOW to check the rotors for movement.

Question, which rotor was it that warped, front right, left, or rear?

It's one of the front, don't know which one yet.  Garry's post above makes me wonder if I can fix it by freeing the bobbins and it isn't warped at all.

That said, if it's warped there's no fixing it, that's just way it is and will need replacement.    

[bisbonian]

Recently I've begun to think I'm getting a pulsation at slower speeds as well.

I'm not sure how much of it is real and how much is in my head.

I'm thinking of trying the different pads as I've heard of a few who've had good luck with that.

It seems as though Piaggio is hit or miss with regard to warranty claims on the rotors but MI should be able to get you taken care of if anyone can.

[blakebird]

When I warped a set of BMW Evo rotors on my R1100S Boxer Cup, I replaced them with Braking waves.
I put Braking waves on my CBR1000RR, Multistrada.... they were always the solution, never the problem.

Makes me wonder if they're built to Guzzi specs rather than off-the-shelf Braking parts.

btw....HH compound is a very common compound available from all pad mfr'rs, EBC is just one that offers it.
Many people prefer a GG compound, and the Vesrah RJL is a very good pad as well.

[johnnyquest]

Thanks for the heads-up...I'm not a mechanical genius, but I thought...at least on cars with disk brakes...that disks usually warp when they are either overheated or if they are cooled down too quickly from a high temperature (heavy braking followed by driving through a puddle or heavy rain). I also thought that the brakes on the 1200 sport were Brembo components?

I'll definitely keep an eye on this as I break in my bike. Thanks.

JQ

[bisbonian]

Thanks for the heads-up...I'm not a mechanical genius, but I thought...at least on cars with disk brakes...that disks usually warp when they are either overheated or if they are cooled down too quickly from a high temperature (heavy braking followed by driving through a puddle or heavy rain). I also thought that the brakes on the 1200 sport were Brembo components?

I'll definitely keep an eye on this as I break in my bike. Thanks.

JQ

Calipers and wheels are Brembo (even thought the wheels have that Marchesini decal) but the rotors are Braking.

[johnnyquest]

Oh, ok...I thought when I read info on the bike that "wave rotors" were just a description, not the brand name. By the looks of their website, looks like they make stuff for some seriously fast bikes...hard to believe that they would warp so easy. Perhaps it is the bobbins are preventing the rotors from floating...

JQ

[desert_rider]

You could always pull the rotors off and lay them on a piece of glass to see if they are truly warped or if it's something else.

[sagerat]

The rotors on my Breva warped.  No biggie at speed, but definitley noticeable at <20 mph.  I'd clean them and it would cure the pulse for a while, but the warp always returned.  Warped front rotors on the B11's was less than common, but more than rare.

[MisterSmooth]

OK, I came home from work today and went out to the garage to fiddle.

I inserted a fat pencil into each rotor bobbin, moved it around against the retaining spring, and cleaned it with a few drops of brake cleaner.

When the bobbin spun freely around, I'd move on to the next one.

Then...I lubed each bobbin with a tiny bit of silicone lube.  It's slippery as hell and seemed like a good choice for a part that sees rain and road crud.

And then I went for a ride over to Bulldog News to pick up a copy of Bike UK.  Sure, they have subscriptions and it could be sent directly to the house, but if you tell Bulldog to hold one for you every month then you have an excuse to ride your bike over there.  And they'll call you when it comes in.

During the ride I made a point to make about six "panic" stops.  DAMN but the brakes on the Sport will stop you quickly.  I expect brick wall stopping power from my Aprilias, but the brakes on the 1200 Sport will suck the front tire down to the asphalt like teflon sticking to a pan.

After all that, the pulsing from the front brakes was unchanged.  It's a little scary at walking speeds.  One of my rotors is totally done.  

[MisterSmooth]

When I warped a set of BMW Evo rotors on my R1100S Boxer Cup, I replaced them with Braking waves.
I put Braking waves on my CBR1000RR, Multistrada.... they were always the solution, never the problem.

Makes me wonder if they're built to Guzzi specs rather than off-the-shelf Braking parts.

btw....HH compound is a very common compound available from all pad mfr'rs, EBC is just one that offers it.
Many people prefer a GG compound, and the Vesrah RJL is a very good pad as well.

That's good info.  Yeah, I was pleased with the apparent quality of the OEM rotors; Braking rotors from the factory?  That's cool.    We'll see how the next set last.

No one seems to knows why some of the 1200 Sport rotors fail.  

[bisbonian]

The rotors on my Breva warped.  No biggie at speed, but definitley noticeable at <20 mph.  I'd clean them and it would cure the pulse for a while, but the warp always returned.  Warped front rotors on the B11's was less than common, but more than rare.

Seems to me that if all you did was clean them and the pulse went away that there is no actual warp going on but rather something else.  Cleaning a rotor shouldn't magically straighten the metal.

Unless you mean something else by cleaning?

I know that one of the theories is that heating up the rotors and then coming to a stop without releasing the brake while you're sitting there melts some of the friction material onto the rotor surface leading to a high spot that will go away with some cleaning.  This is why people go with the different pads.

[Blunder]

I've noticed this warbling also.

I was thinking it was a suspension problem and could be tuned out. It's intermittent on my bike and as it seems to take place only at walking speed I'm not too concerned. If it bothers me too much I've always got the Bandit.

[Jetpilot5]

I'm also doubting it's warped rotors if cleaning or changing pads cures it.  I know certain pad compounds don't work well with certain rotors.  EBC HH pads make a mess and squeal like a mother on my stock BMW rotors while the Carbone Lorraine SBK 5 pads I'm running now work great, smooth, powerful and quiet.

I've also seen rotors that look spotted from pad contamination and the rider complained of pulsing while braking.

I'd sure try some brake cleaner and a scotchbrite pad on the stock rotors before giving up on them.  

First post in the Guzzi forum.

[blakebird]

If the brakes pulse but it's intermittent - I would check to see if your caliper's pistons are all moving freely too.....brake pad dust, etc.

I have about 3,500 miles on mine with some spirited going and stopping involved - nothing but excellent braking performance to report.