The real reason Harley ditched Buell

[X1rider]

From Dealer News web site:

ATK signs $100 million deal to bring 33,000 bikes to U.S. market over four years
Publish date: May 28, 2010
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ATK has signed a multi-year, $100 million dollar contract with S&T Motors of Korea, manufacturer of Hyosung-branded bikes, to bring more than 33,000 motorcycles to the American marketplace over the next four years.

The companies are looking to build the ATK dealer network, especially targeting established Harley-Davidson dealers to take on the dirtsports line.

“Our strategy is for ATK to be the second American brand in select Harley-Davidson dealerships,” says ATK president Frank White. “The prime focus of our initiative is to be a feeder brand to the V-Twin dealers — similar to what Scion has been to Toyota."

That may be a tough sell with Harley, which has traditionally preferred dedicated dealerships and has not endorsed White’s plan.

“Nevertheless, our new products fit the current Harley-Davidson dealer need and move to offer both the dealer, and more importantly, the retail customer, a complete staircase of V-twin based products, which only acts to complement the current Harley-Davidson product lineup.”

White thinks ATK bikes will pull the coveted younger demographic into dealerships.

"The approach is simple; get new and younger riders to go into the Harley-Davidson dealerships," he says. "We want to capture those customers who are initially looking for a smaller displacement motorcycle, at an affordable price, and then over time these new riders will develop the aspiration for a traditional Harley-Davidson."

Under the deal, S&T has agreed to produce enough parts to manufacture 33,000 motorcycles, ranging in displacement from 250cc to 680cc. The motorcycles will be sold and marketed under the ATK brand name in the US market for the 2011 to 2014 model years.

Starting in 2012 motorcycles will be assembled near ATK headquarters in Centerville, Utah, where the company expects to employ 65 more people.

S&T Motors is the largest motorcycle manufacturer in Korea and manufactures Hyosung-branded motorcycles ranging from 250cc to 700cc.

ATK claims it’s the second-oldest continuously running US motorcycle manufacturer and the only US based off-road motorcycle manufacturer.

[Wanderer]

My crystal ball shows this will end the same way Buell did.  A few bikes stuffed in a dark corner and generally shunned by salespeople and customers alike.

[desert_rider]

Jesus, dealers couldn't/wouldn't sell Buell's that were made by the MoCo in the United States.  They're going to endorse a Korean bike???

[Frankienuckles]

 

[chornbe]

Old news. You people really need to listen to The Pace.  

Anyway, it's the non-exclusive dealer network doing this, not momma-Harley from what I'd previously read.

[Skee]

Doesn't seem to fit HD's traditional marketing plan.
Not exactly analogous to the Scion offshoot from Toyota.
Not a bold new initiative.
No niche.

Only advantage I can see is a larger spread on the markup.  
That may generate more revenue but it won't sell bikes to the loyalists.

Does not make sense to me.  

But then, I wouldn't buy one anyway.  Last time I walked into a HD dealership, the girl at the counter told me I was too tall (& too good looking, well actually, what she said was closer to clean-cut) to ride a Harley.  No lie.

[Kootenanny]

Old news. You people really need to listen to The Pace.  

Anyway, it's the non-exclusive dealer network doing this, not momma-Harley from what I'd previously read.

Exactly.  Old news.  Where did I read about this previously?

Anyway, it's got nothing to do with the MoCo, or with Buell.  It is just a few...uh...dealers looking to pad out their inventory with something cheap they can sell to the kids who come in to drool all over the Harleys, but will never be able to afford one.

[R.Markus]

Starting in 2012 motorcycles will be assembled near ATK headquarters in Centerville, Utah, where the company expects to employ 65 more people.

So, this would make a total of 66 employees.  

[UHOH]

I'd say the corporate memory probably will remember the decades - old lessons when HD tried
it with Italian manufactured HD's.  

[maddjack]

From Dealer News web site:

ATK signs $100 million deal to bring 33,000 bikes to U.S. market over four years
Publish date: May 28, 2010
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ATK has signed a multi-year, $100 million dollar contract with S&T Motors of Korea, manufacturer of Hyosung-branded bikes, to bring more than 33,000 motorcycles to the American marketplace over the next four years.

The companies are looking to build the ATK dealer network, especially targeting established Harley-Davidson dealers to take on the dirtsports line.

“Our strategy is for ATK to be the second American brand in select Harley-Davidson dealerships,” says ATK president Frank White. “The prime focus of our initiative is to be a feeder brand to the V-Twin dealers — similar to what Scion has been to Toyota."

That may be a tough sell with Harley, which has traditionally preferred dedicated dealerships and has not endorsed White’s plan.

“Nevertheless, our new products fit the current Harley-Davidson dealer need and move to offer both the dealer, and more importantly, the retail customer, a complete staircase of V-twin based products, which only acts to complement the current Harley-Davidson product lineup.”

White thinks ATK bikes will pull the coveted younger demographic into dealerships.

"The approach is simple; get new and younger riders to go into the Harley-Davidson dealerships," he says. "We want to capture those customers who are initially looking for a smaller displacement motorcycle, at an affordable price, and then over time these new riders will develop the aspiration for a traditional Harley-Davidson."

Under the deal, S&T has agreed to produce enough parts to manufacture 33,000 motorcycles, ranging in displacement from 250cc to 680cc. The motorcycles will be sold and marketed under the ATK brand name in the US market for the 2011 to 2014 model years.

Starting in 2012 motorcycles will be assembled near ATK headquarters in Centerville, Utah, where the company expects to employ 65 more people.

S&T Motors is the largest motorcycle manufacturer in Korea and manufactures Hyosung-branded motorcycles ranging from 250cc to 700cc.

ATK claims it’s the second-oldest continuously running US motorcycle manufacturer and the only US based off-road motorcycle manufacturer.

As other have said old news and , its a fellow who owns a group of HD dealerships that started this , not the Motor company itself, place blame or whatever it is , where it is due.

[chornbe]

If only there was a way to understand the words that these reporters write.  

[shah269]

Look I get the pussy thing....trust me now that I'm single I so get the HD pussy thing.
Just shy of walking a wallaby named Matilda the only 100% sure fire way to get good quantity of ass is to own a HD.
But that kind of is understandable since most woman really do have crap taste. Be it in how they want their steak cooked well done.....just chew on my shoes will you....to their taste in music.....really you are going to ask the DJ to play Biance put a ring on it....?

But what I don't get is how the company can really stay in business without developing ANY THING NEW!
It seems all they do is dig around their parts bin, slap some chrome together regardless of function or reason ask some cute long legged flat bellied perky boobied girl if it looks nice....to which she giggles and her panties explode off and she rides the lead designer a guy named Scab like a mechanical bull.....and they sell it so 50yo engineer named Chet who never had a girl under a size 18 for $18k.

I've taken economics and I understand things such as brand recognition all all this fun jazz about how we want a given item. But are we really this stupid?

[ride200mi]

From Dealer News web site:

ATK signs $100 million deal to bring 33,000 bikes to U.S. market over four years
Publish date: May 28, 2010
Email|Print|
Share

    * Del.icio.us
    * Digg
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|Save|License

ATK has signed a multi-year, $100 million dollar contract with S&T Motors of Korea, manufacturer of Hyosung-branded bikes, to bring more than 33,000 motorcycles to the American marketplace over the next four years.

The companies are looking to build the ATK dealer network, especially targeting established Harley-Davidson dealers to take on the dirtsports line.

“Our strategy is for ATK to be the second American brand in select Harley-Davidson dealerships,” says ATK president Frank White. “The prime focus of our initiative is to be a feeder brand to the V-Twin dealers — similar to what Scion has been to Toyota."

That may be a tough sell with Harley, which has traditionally preferred dedicated dealerships and has not endorsed White’s plan.

“Nevertheless, our new products fit the current Harley-Davidson dealer need and move to offer both the dealer, and more importantly, the retail customer, a complete staircase of V-twin based products, which only acts to complement the current Harley-Davidson product lineup.”

White thinks ATK bikes will pull the coveted younger demographic into dealerships.

"The approach is simple; get new and younger riders to go into the Harley-Davidson dealerships," he says. "We want to capture those customers who are initially looking for a smaller displacement motorcycle, at an affordable price, and then over time these new riders will develop the aspiration for a traditional Harley-Davidson."

Under the deal, S&T has agreed to produce enough parts to manufacture 33,000 motorcycles, ranging in displacement from 250cc to 680cc. The motorcycles will be sold and marketed under the ATK brand name in the US market for the 2011 to 2014 model years.

Starting in 2012 motorcycles will be assembled near ATK headquarters in Centerville, Utah, where the company expects to employ 65 more people.

S&T Motors is the largest motorcycle manufacturer in Korea and manufactures Hyosung-branded motorcycles ranging from 250cc to 700cc.

ATK claims it’s the second-oldest continuously running US motorcycle manufacturer and the only US based off-road motorcycle manufacturer.

I'm thinking this is the real reason for the calling.....

[steve.m]

Look I get the pussy thing....trust me now that I'm single I so get the HD pussy thing.
Just shy of walking a wallaby named Matilda the only 100% sure fire way to get good quantity of ass is to own a HD.
But that kind of is understandable since most woman really do have crap taste. Be it in how they want their steak cooked well done.....just chew on my shoes will you....to their taste in music.....really you are going to ask the DJ to play Biance put a ring on it....?

But what I don't get is how the company can really stay in business without developing ANY THING NEW!
It seems all they do is dig around their parts bin, slap some chrome together regardless of function or reason ask some cute long legged flat bellied perky boobied girl if it looks nice....to which she giggles and her panties explode off and she rides the lead designer a guy named Scab like a mechanical bull.....and they sell it so 50yo engineer named Chet who never had a girl under a size 18 for $18k.

I've taken economics and I understand things such as brand recognition all all this fun jazz about how we want a given item. But are we really this stupid?

you forgot about her tight butt  

but more seriously, i never got the harley thing and swore i'd never own one.  then i had a cbr1000 which was the worst motorcycle i've ever owned for street riding (brutal track weapon out of the box though, and sounded sweeeet   ).  when that got stolen, i started thumbing around and talked to a bud with a sportster.  he went on and on about it.  i bought one, i loved it until i realized it was worthless for me as a distance cruiser (i'm 6'3") but the sucker did turn heads as i've said many times before.  so i shopped for a new bike, and got the ulysses XT.  BEST BIKE I'VE EVER RIDDEN!!!  perfect power where i want it, perfect ergos for me, perfect for 2-up and distances.  just an all out perfect bike for someone who is looking for a good street machine.  

HD shut down buell (i think) because it didn't fit their business model, not because the bikes weren't selling or weren't quality machines.  when i bought my XL the dealer said "you don't usually see engineers buying sporties, they tend to go for buells".  as an engineer i eventually fell into the stereotype because the bikes are so beautifully sorted.  however, engineers aren't the average buyer and HD's plan to market buells to the youth market failed miserably.  probably because kids interested in HD could afford a sportster before they could afford a buell and get the "real thing"

and with those comments, i've opened a stinky ol' can of worms  

[falconati]

Look I get the pussy thing....trust me now that I'm single I so get the HD pussy thing.
Just shy of walking a wallaby named Matilda the only 100% sure fire way to get good quantity of ass is to own a HD.
But that kind of is understandable since most woman really do have crap taste. Be it in how they want their steak cooked well done.....just chew on my shoes will you....to their taste in music.....really you are going to ask the DJ to play Biance put a ring on it....?

But what I don't get is how the company can really stay in business without developing ANY THING NEW!
It seems all they do is dig around their parts bin, slap some chrome together regardless of function or reason ask some cute long legged flat bellied perky boobied girl if it looks nice....to which she giggles and her panties explode off and she rides the lead designer a guy named Scab like a mechanical bull.....and they sell it so 50yo engineer named Chet who never had a girl under a size 18 for $18k.

I've taken economics and I understand things such as brand recognition all all this fun jazz about how we want a given item. But are we really this stupid?

This is one of the most ridiculous posts on this forum - and that's saying a lot.

You are a sad, small, little man.

[chornbe]

But what I don't get is how the company can really stay in business without developing ANY THING NEW!

But that's where you're wrong...

Your GPz isn't exactly cutting edge tech, yet it's a well respected, highly sought-after bike.

Point  being, when a majority of the people buying motorcycles buy Harleys above other brands, why WOULD or SHOULD they change? When their sales numbers fall off and their wallets thin and they realize their "core buyers" aren't getting the job done, THEN they'll move on to other products.

It's stupid for them to stray from what sells and it would be stupid for them not to adapt when their sales fall off.

Why is that so hard to understand?

And why do you care?  

[R.Markus]

But that's where you're wrong...

Your GPz isn't exactly cutting edge tech, yet it's a well respected, highly sought-after bike.

Point  being, when a majority of the people buying motorcycles buy Harleys above other brands, why WOULD or SHOULD they change? When their sales numbers fall off and their wallets thin and they realize their "core buyers" aren't getting the job done, THEN they'll move on to other products.

It's stupid for them to stray from what sells and it would be stupid for them not to adapt when their sales fall off.

Why is that so hard to understand?

And why do you care?  

You're defending Harley Davidson from shaw. Just thought you'd like to know.

[chornbe]

You're defending Harley Davidson from shaw. Just thought you'd like to know.

You're right.

I'm also trying to understand how he can be appear so fucking stupid and still support a heart beat.

[Playinthestreet]

You're right.

I'm also trying to understand how he can be appear so fucking stupid and still support a heart beat.

I'd hate to see an EKG printout on him...

[falconati]

hahahahaha.....god  

[shah269]

Funny thing is that their most advance most modern bike sells the least!
I'm sure they can keep the "look" but maybe improve things a little.
But hey it's not what I ride and thus I really don't get it.

[Brad1445]

Harley needs to expand its line and Buell Blew all its chips with the POS 1125 series.  
Smart move for Harley  I'd miss the Buell XB bikes but no tears off this electrical night mare,  clutch leaking ugly creature.

I just bought a 10 Year old Aprilia RSC Mile, its a great bike shows 10 years ago what could be done but Buell failed after three years of building crap.

[steve.m]

This is one of the most ridiculous posts on this forum - and that's saying a lot.

You are a sad, small, little man.

i'm not sure about that statement, you did post a picture of a baby jesus butt plug and crucifix dildo

[bikerstarfjr08]

Look I get the pussy thing....trust me now that I'm single I so get the HD pussy thing.
Just shy of walking a wallaby named Matilda the only 100% sure fire way to get good quantity of ass is to own a HD.

You, you might get a good quantity of ass on an HD...........just not very good quality. Most (some a down right hot) HD chicks I have seen - driving or on the back - are the size of a 1966 VW and look like they are pissed off at the world.

[Baz]

Harley needs to expand its line and Buell Blew all its chips with the POS 1125 series.  
Smart move for Harley  I'd miss the Buell XB bikes but no tears off this electrical night mare,  clutch leaking ugly creature.

Yup, it sounds like they didn't need to change a thing!  

[falconati]

i'm not sure about that statement, you did post a picture of a baby jesus butt plug and crucifix dildo

  Fair's fair.

[AutoXer]

Anyway, it's got nothing to do with the MoCo, or with Buell.  It is just a few...uh...dealers looking to pad out their inventory with something cheap they can sell to the kids who come in to drool all over the Harleys, but will never be able to afford one.

Hate to say it, but none of the young guys I know who ride, nor the younger guys who would like to ride, "drool" over Harley's - they consider them "old guys bikes" and are not remotely interested in them.  And you'd be fooling yourself to believe they really want a Harley and just can't afford 'em - they can and they do not want them.

jZ

[Rogue]

You're missing Koot's point.  In any case, this has been discussed to death in the Buell forum.  

[shah269]

Dumb question and I may just not get this 100%.
Why hasn't HD moved to FI on it's big V twins? Or utilized those sexy radial discs that Buell had?
Would really allow the HD guys to add more bling to their bikes!

[bomber]

Shah -- I don't believe it is possible to buy a carbed HD -- been that way for a while.

No need for the inside out disks on most HDs, as the intent (reducing unsprung weight) simply isn't much of an issue for most of their line.

[chornbe]

Dumb question and I may just not get this 100%.
Why hasn't HD moved to FI on it's big V twins? Or utilized those sexy radial discs that Buell had?
Would really allow the HD guys to add more bling to their bikes!

Dude, they've had FI for a long time and their FI system is freaking smooooooooooth, and it includes complete servo control and throttle by wire for several years now, on several models.

Again, if you're gonna bash, at least start with some basic facts being correct, mmmmmmkay?

[jfurf]

Isn't ATK just a bunch of bullshit vaporware from some Mormon guy who spams press releases from his basement masterbatorium?

[HipGnosis]

when a majority of the people buying motorcycles buy Harleys above other brands, why WOULD or SHOULD they change? When their sales numbers fall off and their wallets thin and they realize their "core buyers" aren't getting the job done, THEN they'll move on to other products.
It's stupid for them to stray from what sells and it would be stupid for them not to adapt when their sales fall off.  

Umm.... have you seen their sales #s of late?!?

[chornbe]

EVERYONE's sales numbers are in the tank. This is not unique to Harley by a long shot.

Now WOULD be a good time to invest a little time and money into some alternatives if they had it, and come back in 2012 with a wider offering when people start buying again, but no one's got the money.

And if Harley was the only one down, then I'd absolutely and whole-heartedly agree with you. But you can't make that comparison. Harley isn't down because they're Harley and they only make one type of bike.... Harley is down just like Honda and Suzuki and Yamaha and... the whole market place is down.

[Giaka]

Just wanted to point out....................

[X1rider]

Isn't ATK just a bunch of bullshit vaporware from some Mormon guy who spams press releases from his basement masterbatorium?

  Have a look at their "modern" web site.

I smell a scam with Korean bikes named something else.

[swimmer]

My GF is Korean.  PhD. in electrical engineering (after getting her Masters in Physics in Korea).  NFW would I want to ride anything built by her.

[Geoff]

Jesus, dealers couldn't/wouldn't sell Buell's that were made by the MoCo in the United States.  They're going to endorse a Korean bike???

I agree. The whole thing will flop.

[X1rider]

This and this and this

Odd that there are a few different web addresses for the same company....

http://www.atkusa.com/atk/(S(vpk1tsiwxxdjg5455y3kc4nw))/default.aspx

http://www.atkmotorsports.com/

http://www.hyosungmotorsusa.com/

This is a definite FAIL

[RDY2GO!]

Maybe not.  In fact, probably not.  Over the years I've learned not to bet against Frank White.  Obviously it won't be a huge deal or even a mega money maker, but I'm sure Frank has done his due diligence and has limited his exposer, even hedged his bets a bit too.

When ATK first came around the off road guru's scoffed at them.  "Antiquated" Rotax engines, linkage less rear suspensions, counter shaft mounted rear brake rotors and that funny torque link on the chain.  They never sold the numbers that the Japanese marques did, but it did as well as any of the other "cottage factories" and still has a very loyal customer base.

After the business failure of Cannondale Motorsports Frank stepped in and bought what was left of the inventory and some of the tooling, while letting a Taiwanese (I think...) company called "Denli" buy up the "intellectual rights".  Franks plan was simple.  Fix the few problems that had troubled the Cannondale machines, make a few minor tweaks then re-badge them as ATK's.  Denli tried to stop him from selling and supporting the machines claiming infringement but in the end he's been selling the re-colored and re-badged units having more success than anyone thought he would.  Denli on the other hand has yet to use the technology that they bought and has yet to bring a high end unit to market.

I've never been a huge fan of Hyosung, but on the other hand they certainly rate as one of the better (gawd it even pains me to say that...)  of the Korean, Taiwanese, etc marques.  If Frank's and ATK's past history and methods are any indication of his plans it wouldn't surprise me if the intentions were to go through the machines and bring them up to ATK's standards before they go to market.

In the end though while I'm sure this venture will not not be "mainstream" or even a huge seller, but I wouldn't say that it'll be a failure.

Bruce

[chornbe]

And don't make generalized slams against Korea, either.

Hyundai delivered a vehicle in the 80s that was not ready for prime time. America spoke. They stepped up their game. Now, they've got - frankly - one of the better cars in the lower-priced space. And a second product line (KIA). I'd buy a Hyundai before I bought another GM at this point, and likely so before several other MFGs.

[steve.m]

And don't make generalized slams against Korea, either.

Hyundai delivered a vehicle in the 80s that was not ready for prime time. America spoke. They stepped up their game. Now, they've got - frankly - one of the better cars in the lower-priced space. And a second product line (KIA). I'd buy a Hyundai before I bought another GM at this point, and likely so before several other MFGs.

If only they'd designed the genesis coupe to look a little less like a last generation tiburon and kept the front end from smiling at everyone, they might have better sales numbers in the sport segment  

everything i've heard about their midrange offerings puts them square up against honda and toyota in design and interior appointments.  doens't surprise me though, korean manufacturing has come a LONG ways in the past decade.

[chornbe]

    
The real reason Harley ditched Buell

Every time I see this thread title I chuckle...

Like Harley or hate them, does anyone... anyone... anywhere... honestly believe someone in a conference room one day walked in and said, "Hey, I've got this idea...." ? Really?

[falconati]

But Chris, this is the real reason  

[Kilmister]

And don't make generalized slams against Korea, either.

Hyundai delivered a vehicle in the 80s that was not ready for prime time. America spoke. They stepped up their game. Now, they've got - frankly - one of the better cars in the lower-priced space. And a second product line (KIA). I'd buy a Hyundai before I bought another GM at this point, and likely so before several other MFGs.

I'm on my 3rd Kia.  it's a 2011 Sorento (how ya like me now?) and I drove right by all the other dealers to get it.  I've had nothing but good luck with them and recommend that everyone check them out.  

[chornbe]

But Chris, this is the real reason  

Oh znap. Color me pwned.  

[jhawk]

.... for those of you that have been moaning Buell's demise and .....here's your (perhaps last) chance / window of opportunity to get your new dream bike ....

http://www.psnnewsletter.com/newsletters/48011_2010_7_1_3_21_22.html



 

[bikerstarfjr08]

Look I get the pussy thing....trust me now that I'm single I so get the HD pussy thing.
Just shy of walking a wallaby named Matilda the only 100% sure fire way to get good quantity of ass is to own a HD.

Right, I assume that would be the same fat ass, fugly female wannabes that I see on the back of Harley's porking down the roads on any given weekend? If an HD is what it takes to get a good piecs of ass, then you have truly dipped into very low self esteem. Just my thoughts on the matter.

[Geoff]

My crystal ball shows this will end the same way Buell did.  A few bikes stuffed in a dark corner and generally shunned by salespeople and customers alike.

Ain't that the truth!

The faithful sure aren't gonna embrace these bikes. And based on Buell, Harley has proven that it has trouble marketing outside of its core customer base.

[steve.m]

I don't know about all that, they suckered me into buying one with marissa miller.  that's damn fine advertising right there  

[Pshrynk]

And don't make generalized slams against Korea, either.

Hyundai delivered a vehicle in the 80s that was not ready for prime time. America spoke. They stepped up their game. Now, they've got - frankly - one of the better cars in the lower-priced space. And a second product line (KIA). I'd buy a Hyundai before I bought another GM at this point, and likely so before several other MFGs.

Heck I'd probably look at a Hyundai at the same time as the other Japanese manufacturers,  l if I didn't like the German and Swedish designed cars better.

[bomber]

Heck I'd probably look at a Hyundai at the same time as the other Japanese manufacturers,  l if I didn't like the German and Swedish designed cars better.

For your own health, do not lump Hyundai with Japanese products in front of a Korean -- they don't like that, generally.

[Geoff]

I don't know about all that, they suckered me into buying one with marissa miller.  that's damn fine advertising right there  

Marissa is hot!    

[steve.m]

wait, we just stumbled upon the REAL reason HD ditched buell...to pay for marissa miller to do their photoshoots  

[st ryder]

Marissa is hot!    

Meh...just another supermodel.