Thinking of selling my DL650 to get a BMW seeking experienced opniions

[tsochs]

Has anyone here left a Wee Strom, Dl650 for a BMW? Which bike and why?
What is your maintenance cost difference? How do you answer the bashers that think BMW bikes are unreliable and too expensive? What is the truth about  repair, service and dependability. I know tons of BMWs are on the road, at what cost.

I'm want a bike for long distance travel- mid-term goal to cross and to circle the country, long term goal to cross/circle Europe, parts of South American and Africa in search of great photos and great rides.
I will spend 95% of my riding time on road but have an itching to get off road just for the exploration- nothing severe, just short explorations or camping sites. My DL650 is very comfortable to me. I rode the Iron Butt SS1000 on it and was ready to ride more after the adventure.  I'd be switching bikes to find more stability(especially when passing groups of semis), speed, power,  I love riding and cold weather rides are equally good news so I  am interested in heated options. I'm over forty been riding less than a year, love the twisties(even though I just learned to ride), love the long distance rides, Cherohala, Blue ridge and any long winding country roads. I don't current ride two up but the ultimate would be to do all the above riding with someone so I am also potentially seeking comfort for her.

[chornbe]

Well, just saying "BMW" is a little vague. Their models span the available range, from little, light standards, to full sized, industrial strength adventure tourers, from sporty bike, to full on super bike....

[phoenix]

must be talking about the GS line of BMW's with the mention of doing some off-road travels.

Big difference in price between a 1200 GS Adventure and an 800 GS.

If you want it and can afford it, ignore the bashers. What the hell do they really know anyway?

[Cablebandit]

Yup, life's too short to worry about what others think.  If you want a Beemer, buy a Beemer.  The Weestrom is basically a zero maintenance machine.  Change oil, tires, and add gas.  When I did my valves it cost me nothing but  my own time.  I'm sure the BMW will cost more to maintain over the long haul, but if that's what you want go for it.  Otherwise, every time you see one you'll be wondering....what if?

[Mrs. DantesDame]

On the surface, I'd say "don't switch". Why, you ask? Well, you're already comfortable on your bike and you know it. It's easy to work on, so when you find yourself in the hinterlands of Africa and something breaks, odds are the locals can fix it. Unlikely on a BMW. You can always add heated grips and a heated jacket outlet to the DL (I've done so on my KLR), so the heating problem is no longer an issue.

Ok, so that's why I say Keep whatcha got. Why get a BMW? Mmmm - they're sexy  seriously, they have a smooth power that is fantastic. You'll wonder how you ever even got past the semis once you feel how responsive the GS motor is. Heated options? Why stop at hands and jacket? The bike has enough power to head your seat and your legs and light up the road for two miles, too. Two up comfort? BMW. Reliability? Excellent. But when something breaks, odds are it'll be more expensive to fix than you bargained for.

Hmm - this was a pretty scrambled post. Sorry about that; it's still early here  

PS - there's a sweet F650GS for sale here  

[nater]

BMWs are pretty reliable.  Can't really go wrong with one.

[sempervee]

Just upgrade to the Man sized real VStrom 1000......  I have owned BMW's and would not ride any of them now with all their mechanical electrical problems.
 

[jfurf]

If I were doing some hardcore adventure touring, I'd be VERY careful about BMW.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=568261

Check out this guy's story... an electrical short fried his wiring harness while in Nowheresville, Uzbekistan.  

[chornbe]

Just upgrade to the Man sized real VStrom 1000......  I have owned BMW's and would not ride any of them now with all their mechanical electrical problems.
  

Sure that's not an FJR or a Harley you're thinking of? You must be new to ST.N.  

[Orson]

I'm want a bike for long distance travel- mid-term goal to cross and to circle the country, long term goal to cross/circle Europe, parts of South American and Africa in search of great photos and great rides.

Just my opinion, but there's probably a helluva lot more Honda dealers in small towns around the globe than there are BMW dealers  

If you break down in a foreign land, you'll probably have to go to the capital city to find a BMW dealer, whereas Hondas are sold just about everywhere.

[bluepoof]

PS - there's a sweet F650GS for sale here  

Glad you said it so I didn't have to!

[eye.surgeon]

I sold my BMW k1200gt to buy my v-strom 650. while I loved my bmws they are very expensive to maintain. You'll need to budget anywhere from $300-$1000 every 6000 miles for service unless you wrench yourself. I got tired of paying that.

You can fix the highway stability issue on the wee with a $100 fork brace by the way.  

[Zerosum]

I love my Strom, but if I were planning to ride in places like Africa and South America, I might want something with shaft drive.  The Strom is the Kia to the GS's Land Rover.

[MikeinLA]

The Strom is the Kia to the GS's Land Rover.

Not so good considering that Land Rover perpetually finishes dead last in every vehicle reliability study. I would agree with the poster who suggested the 1000 V Strom. More power without that nasty expensive aftertaste.

Mike

[Cale_Kat]

There's more to the BMW ownership experience than just the bike you ride. I've got friends that only ride BMW's . They like to hang together (not that I'm not welcome .. okay but it isn't because I don't ride a BMW) and enjoy the unique qualities of the bikes and the feeling that their riding something very special and with an interesting heritage.

But they're going to cost more to maintain. That is beyond dispute. So, if you think you're going to want to trade up to a different bike soon or as very particular about spending money, you might  want to pass.

That said..life's short, ride the bike that makes you happy. For me, just about any bike would do.  

[Mrs. DantesDame]

I have two bikes that I switch between, the KLR650 and a BMW 1150GS. The maintenance on both has been very affordable, but mostly because I - or friends of mine - can help with the work. But I do carry full coverage on the BMW but only liability on the KLR. I figure that I can afford to replace the KLR easily enough, but the BMW? Not so much  

On a side note, I (ab)use the KLR daily, but keep the BMW for back up and long trips, so it doesn't get as much use and therefore needs less maintenance.

[dtor]

If I were doing some hardcore adventure touring, I'd be VERY careful about BMW.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=568261

Check out this guy's story... an electrical short fried his wiring harness while in Nowheresville, Uzbekistan.  

In all fairness to BMW, you should have told the entire story. Maybe you should be VERY careful reading.

Quote from the guy:

"The cause of the short? Go back to one of my first posts. Installed an extender cable for jump starting the cable. The cable wqas properly insulated, including shrink tubing it. Well, one way or another it wore thru against the seat support, shorted and since it is a big cable, it allowed ahuge current."

DIYers are the bane of *all* motorcycle manufacturers.

[cole]

I agree with a previous post get the 1000 and you can go anywhere as fast as you want. As for maintenance on a BMW it is way over blown. R bikes take very little to maintain, valves take under an hour if you take your time. Other then that tires, brakes are cost about the same no matter what kind of bike it is. My R has cost me nothing since I do the work myself. As for reliability I would leave now for a cross country ride if I could.

[buls4evr]

 I would be for keeping the Strom and making it better with goodies. The BMWs are expensive to maintain and other than shaft drive, really no better as a bike.....and I DO OWN a BMW. Get ready for big maintenance $$$$$ on everything you cannot do.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

 I would be for keeping the Strom and making it better with goodies. The BMWs are expensive to maintain and other than shaft drive, really no better as a bike.....and I DO OWN a BMW. Get ready for big maintenance $$$$$ on everything you cannot do.

Which is what?  

[Orson]

Which is what?  

we work long and hard on these bashing threads without having to worry about details  

if we're gonna be expected to document all our bashings, our "Experts on Everything" tag will be imperiled  

[GilaMonster]

I am on my third BMW ('03 K12RS, '04 KGT, and currently '06 KS), and over 70K+ miles, I wonder where the story of maintenance costs come from.  For the record, I do none of my own maintenance, and have the local dealer do all recommended maintenance.  I believe the highest bill I ever paid was a combo annual & 36K service and it was something like $300.  By far the largest cost of operation has been tires.  Please note, no chain and sprocket replacements and no final drives issues other than fluid changes.

Now, if you want to ask me about maintenance costs, ask me about the '06 Ducati Multistrada I had.  I kept the Ducati jacket, because I could afford the maintenance on the jacket!

[GRN]

Quickly scanning through this thread I see no mention of the Tiger 800... worth a look for what you're after IMO.

[cruisin]

I am on my third BMW ('03 K12RS, '04 KGT, and currently '06 KS), and over 70K+ miles, I wonder where the story of maintenance costs come from.  For the record, I do none of my own maintenance, and have the local dealer do all recommended maintenance.  I believe the highest bill I ever paid was a combo annual & 36K service and it was something like $300.  By far the largest cost of operation has been tires.  Please note, no chain and sprocket replacements and no final drives issues other than fluid changes. . . .

I have to echo this sentiment and add I have now owned 6 BMWs starting with my R75/6 back in 1977 up to my latest acquisition, a 2000 R1100RT.  Not one of them has ever given me any problems of any kind; no failed final drives, no surging, not a single major problem.  That said, I do all of my own maintenance now.  When I got my first oil-head (1999 R1200C) I took it to a dealer during the warranty period but never paid more than $400 for major (12K) service.  Since that time, all I do is regular tune ups myself, change fluids, brake pads & tires (lots of tires).  All total now I have accumulated just a tad over 307K on BMWs without a single problem.  If you can read and turn a wrench, the big twins are pretty easy to maintain; especially pre-'02 models with less electronic gadgetry than later models. As for replacement parts; there are usually plenty available online at a fraction of the cost of new ones.

[buls4evr]

 OK Cruisin and others, how about...  A $1650.00 bill to put in fork seals/wipers, a fuel gauge sending unit, new front brake line, new clutch, 2 trans seals and rear end service and all fluids and disconnect a Kisan flashing unit from headlight. The bike is a 2002 K1200RS. The shop is 90 miles from home. The brake line parts alone were $146.00! They took three tries to get the repairs right..so far, as the right front fork seal is leaking again! Every time I go to this shop I take $500 with me because the parts alone there are staggering. Bike was backed into and knocked over and broke off clutch lever....$100 for the blade! Not expensive ? Let the OP be the judge I guess. Jap bikes are a lot cheaper to maintain. I like the bike when it is all working right but I do have a Love /Hate relationship with it and I hate the part about no dealers to speak of. Let the bashing begin but I will never own another BMW.

[cruisin]

no one forced you to go to a dealer, it isn't that difficult to shop around for used parts that are just as good as new ones for about 20% of new prices. And if you don't want to do the labor yourself; again your choice; just about all shops are charging out the wazoo for their time now-a-days. If you choose to pay the dealer for new parts and labor don't blame the expense on anyone but yourself. Also of note you chose to return to a service department that has quality problems; don't forget this: "screw me once, shame on you -- screw me twice, shame on me."

edit:
1.   the amount of work you described was considerable and would likely have been a very large bill on any brand at any shop

2.  pretty much everyone who has posted about the cost of ownership being within reason has also made some kind of statement about doing the work yourself when it comes time for maintenance.  Remember the requirements for that? Ability to read and turn a wrench -- oh! and the ability to learn from the reading.  

[buls4evr]

 Cruisin...You can't assume the OP is a motorcycle tech like you must be. I felt that the complexity of the bike really added to the price of making repairs to it. This is one of the considerations I would say to the OP that should always make a difference when you pick a bike . I was also pointing out that BMW dealers are few and far between and expensive. It's not just THIS BMW dealer that is expensive but all of them IMO. The bike needed to be 50% disassembled just to do this work. That VStrom would not need to be. I see that you have R bikes. They are not as complex as K bikes. The parts on the Jap bikes are much cheaper. Just bought a clutch lever for sons ZX14 for $65. The lever for a K is $100. Pretty typical price mismatch IMO.

[cruisin]

 So once again you choose to spend more money uneccessarily.  Smart money will go to E-bay, Criagslist or BBY and pay far less than those who CHOOSE to let the delaers screw them.

And yes, I ride R bikes for a couple of reasons; 1. they are easy to maintain and 2. they have more character than K bikes.

And no, I'm not a highly trained technician, infact I've never had any formal mechanical training at all, but I am capable of reading and comprehending what I read then performing the task at hand.

[Kootenanny]

To the OP:  is there a particular reason for looking at a BMW, or do you simply want a larger "adventure touring" bike?  Several have recommended getting a DL1000, and that's one option, but be aware there are MANY bikes in this class these days.  Of course, the BMW R1200GS, and F800GS...but there is also the Honda Varadero, Triumph Tiger, Moto Guzzi Stelvio, the highly rated Ducati MS 1200, KTM's 990 Adventure, and of course Yamaha is bringing out the new Super Tenere this summer.  I'm sure there are others as well.  The thing is, this market is full of bikes...and be honest, right now you want something to tour around North America on; if/when you decide to explore the backroads on other continents, you'll have more experience and will know if the bike you're riding is the one you're gonna want to take with you (I'd think that, were I heading off to Africa, small and simple--maybe a KLR or something similar--might be the ticket).

[sprk_sprd]

 So once again you choose to spend more money uneccessarily.  Smart money will go to E-bay, Criagslist or BBY and pay far less than those who CHOOSE to let the delaers screw them.

And yes, I ride R bikes for a couple of reasons; 1. they are easy to maintain and 2. they have more character than K bikes.

And no, I'm not a highly trained technician, infact I've never had any formal mechanical training at all, but I am capable of reading and comprehending what I read then performing the task at hand.

As an objective reader here, I see that you're intent on dismissing some of the anti-BMW posts.  However, you're not really addressing the issue without simply appealing to ridicule.  You keep throwing the term "smart" around and implying that anyone who goes to a dealer is willingly getting screwed and therefore not smart.  But your example of buying parts off eBay or CL fails to show how there is NOT a disparity between BMW and non-BMW parts - which is what buls4evr is stating.  Given that eBay and CL (or even a junkyard - I'm surprised you didn't throw that in there as a valid and smart source of parts) are open markets with absolutely no price consistency, there isn't a way to determine whether different manufacturers' parts are priced evenly.  Buying from a dealer at least provides a valid comparison of pricing...something that may actually help the OP.

You then go on to concede that it's the R bikes which are easy to maintain.  So your own admission implies the difficulty of maintaining non-R BMWs and presents a justifiable reason to look to other manufacturers.  And if that is the case, will you finally smarten up and get off your high horse about smart and reading comprehension?  

The internet used to be a better place when people simply answered threads without resorting to easily dismissable logical fallacies.

[cbsnbiker]

FWIW, the OP hasn't been back on the board since the day after he started this thread last June.

[tsochs]

Well, I didn't get anything and since my intil question, the Yamaha Super Tenere has landed in the US. I'm intrigued. Yes, the idea is to get a bigger. more sturdy, bike of the same class as I have now. I am 90% tarmac but part of that is my equipment and my experience (40+years old and only been riding for three years -but have about 19,000 miles in on the Wee) The Wee was farkled to perfection by the previous owner so I bought it with everything I;d ever want to add.  

In comparing the R1200GS and the Super Tenere - price tipping the scales quite heavily the Yamaha looks appetizing. The DL1000 is discontinued and I think not as nimble as the BMW and Yamaha. The fact that the Yamaha is serviceable by Joe public with easy to acces parts is very attractive to me.  I have some spine issues that make wrencing a pain in the . . . well everything really. Sometime struggle to open a bag of chips for my little ones.

So, just chiming in here - months later. Rode the Tigers 800 and 1050, rode the R1200, the Multisrada, the BMWR800GS, the K1300S ( tasty !) but not yet the S10/ST/XT1200z?Super Tenere (not sure what it's nickanme is)


Thanks all.

[cbsnbiker]

Let us know if you have any more questions.

Best wishes!

In the meantime, how has the riding been on your Wee?

[GilaMonster]

Well, I didn't get anything and since my intil question, the Yamaha Super Tenere has landed in the US. I'm intrigued. Yes, the idea is to get a bigger. more sturdy, bike of the same class as I have now. I am 90% tarmac but part of that is my equipment and my experience (40+years old and only been riding for three years -but have about 19,000 miles in on the Wee) The Wee was farkled to perfection by the previous owner so I bought it with everything I;d ever want to add.  

In comparing the R1200GS and the Super Tenere - price tipping the scales quite heavily the Yamaha looks appetizing. The DL1000 is discontinued and I think not as nimble as the BMW and Yamaha. The fact that the Yamaha is serviceable by Joe public with easy to acces parts is very attractive to me.  I have some spine issues that make wrencing a pain in the . . . well everything really. Sometime struggle to open a bag of chips for my little ones.

So, just chiming in here - months later. Rode the Tigers 800 and 1050, rode the R1200, the Multisrada, the BMWR800GS, the K1300S ( tasty !) but not yet the S10/ST/XT1200z?Super Tenere (not sure what it's nickanme is)


Thanks all.

IMHO, you need to decide what type of riding you are going to do.  Comparing a K bike with an 800GS to me is like apples and oranges.  I ride predominately for sports touring, and in the last ten years, I have had three K bikes ('03 K1200RS, '04 K1200GT, and currently a K1200S) and have put over 100K miles on them with no failures.  I have also had an '02 Concours10, '03 ZX-6R, '05 Z750S, and an '06 Multistrada along the way with the K bikes.  By far, the most expensive to maintain was the Multistrada, particularly if you ride a lot of miles.  New series K bikes have valve check intervals at 18K and maintenance cost are comparable to equivalent Japanese rides (FJR, ST, Connie14).

My riding buddy is on his second FJR1300 (this one an AE), and my only suggestion is you do not buy a first year release from almost anyone (read Super Tenere), unless you want to be a beta site.  From almost any manufacturer there are inevitable teething problems.

[bassjones]

FWIW, the Super Tenere isn't actually a first year release, just the first year it's available in the States.  It's been out for a while, but only available in other markets.  I would think they've got the kinks worked out by now, but YMMV.

[GilaMonster]

FWIW, the Super Tenere isn't actually a first year release, just the first year it's available in the States.  It's been out for a while, but only available in other markets.  I would think they've got the kinks worked out by now, but YMMV.

So was the first GEN FJR1300, and they still had valve issues.

I don't mean this as a FJR bash, rather most new designs have issues.  My '06 K1200S was the second year on the new K motor, and it is on its third recall version of the cam chain tensioner.

[25knots]

Not so good considering that Land Rover perpetually finishes dead last in every vehicle reliability study. I would agree with the poster who suggested the 1000 V Strom. More power without that nasty expensive aftertaste.

Mike

There's a great episode of Top Gear where the prove, conclusively  , that the Land Rover is the most reliable off road vehicle one can buy (for less than 1500).
http://www.streetfire.net/video/top-gear-bolivia-special-season-14-episode-6_1994638.htm

[cbsnbiker]

FWIW, the OP hasn't been back since September 6th.

But we're here if and when he returns.

[boudreaux]

Disclaimer - I'm not a hardcore mechanic nor am I an expert at anything but...........................I've owned 2 Honda's and 3 BMW's.  The Honda's were much easier and less expensive to maintain than the BMW's.  The Honda's were also confidence inspiring in my quest for learning how to work on bikes while the BMW's scared the hell out of me.  While the BMW's are expensive you can often times find local guys that are experts that will help you learn how to work on them.  Also, they seem to be better made - on my last GS the clutch was going bad and was going to cost around $1k to replace but.................................it was the first clutch replacement in 76,000 miles......................  Another thing that I've noticed is that used BMW's tend to be in better shape with better maintenance records than other used bikes in the same market.      

Also, when it came down to riding and enjoying the bikes the BMW's are MUCH more fun to own (for me).  You really feel like you're riding something special and overall I like it much better - I also like not having to worry with the maintenance of a chain.  Riders and non riders seem much more intrigued with the BMW's.

The most important thing for me was when it came time to sell.  The BMW's went VERY fast and held there value much more than the Honda's.  I actually made money on both the beemers that I sold while I lost on both Honda's.  I typically don't keep bikes long enough to rack up big maintenance bills (sold the GS when the clutch was going and still made money) so I haven't noticed the steep maintenance bills thus far.  Although, the current bike (R1100S) I have is most definitely going to be a keeper.

[dr dralion]

I bought an 8 year old 1997 R850R and fixed it up, rode it for 35k miles and then sold it for what I bought it for.  I did all of my own maintenance, including valve jobs, and truly enjoyed how stable the bike was.  The power delivery was smooth, the telever front end was anti-dive & I really enjoyed that.  The shaft drive was maintenance free.  It was dead-reliable for the years I owned it and put down miles with ease.  

As for whether you should change to a new/different bike, every now and then I get the bug to get a new bike.  Then I look at all of the work I've put into my bike and realize if I bought a new one, I'd have to start over again with the mods.  I figure I've got a few more years on this steed until I get really bored.  

I'd list out what mods you'd want to do to the new/newer bike to see if its worth the change.  As for BMWs, I like their boxer engines, alot.  If I were upgrading, the R1200R is on my very short list.

Kevin

[ConPilot1]

Dear God what a fabulous distraction that was............Holy Shite man that's an adventure.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=568261