Why The Sportster Engine?...according to Erik Buell

[Rogue]

I just read an article from one of the UK Bike mags, wherein they interviewed Erik.  One of the most interesting parts was about the engine on the current XB.  These are not direct quotes from Erik but here is what he had to say.

The liquid cooled V-Rod motor was originally a Buell design.  H-D told Erik that Buell would have primary user of this motor, with H-D secondary.  Somewhere along the way, H-D changed their mind and wanted to be the primary user.  H-D took the design in-house, then sub-contracted the rest to Porsche.  That's when the motor became big, heavy, and complicated.  

Erik decided NOT to use this motor on the XB due to its size and weight.  The design goal for the XB engine was around 140 lbs.  The liquid cooled V-Rod motor weighs in at a porky 220 lbs.  Erik said no thanks.

Buell designed the 1203 cc motor for the XB.  H-D did NOT have a hand in it.  However, H-D liked the design so much, they asked to be secondary users of it.  Thus, H-D uses the block and heads and some other parts on the Sportster 1200.  The rest are all different.  Erik really likes this motor.  He believes it still has a lot of potential.  It currently meets present and emissions standards WITHOU a catalyst.  Therefore, it can easily meet future emissions standards with no problem.  It is lightweight, simple, and has plenty of power for its given applications.  Erik does not believe in the need for very high horsepower motors with high RPM thresholds.  He believes it is rarely used in the street so the benefit of added power is overcome by its heavier weight, complexity, and cost.

[CBRXXBLACKBIRD]

I wish their were more of these bikes around I would love to hear one of the 1203 with after market exhaust.

[Asphalt_Carver]

Rogue,

It is my sincere hope that everyone who unilaterally bashes the Buell motor reads your post and somehow manages to find a clue.  Buells are designed for a specific purpose, exceptional handling, and the motor chosen is the one that fits the given design parameters.

Basically, I think that everyone who bashes Buells should really understand that if Erik had wanted a different motor, he would have gotten one.  Instead, he chose a design that did what he wanted and the hell with the detractors!  

[Thor]

I don't buy it.  Eric started his design, while working at Harley, with a square four motor from England.  If the Harley motor is so great, why didn't he use one?  It would have been a lot easier, don't you think?
http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcbuell/buellinterview6_95.html

He uses Harley engines because Harley owns Buell.  Harley is a motor company.  The motor is their thing.

I like mechanical watches.  They are anywhere from 2 to 8 seconds off a day and require expensive service every 5 years or so.  They are also very expensive to purchase.  Just because I like them doesn't mean I'm going to try to convince anyone that they are technological marvels.  They're not.  I just like them.

The Harley engine is like my mechanical watches.

[Asphalt_Carver]

As a Rolex owner, I would not compare my Buell to a mechanical watch.  Erik got what he wanted and to those who understand his philosophy, Buells are a joy to ride.  To those who don't understand the allure and appeal of a Buell, that's ok too.  Part of the joy of motorcycling is that there is enough choice out there to satisfy just about everyone.

For me, that means a Buell Lightning!

[jschmidt]

Sounds like the manager saying he controls the owners. "Harley asked to use it..." C'mon.

[Rogue]

 

I don't understand some of you people who just don't like H-D.  I really don't.  You always find something to bash.  

Anyway, nobody is saying that Erik could have done ANYTHING he wanted and could have gotten whatever he wanted.  You people work for a company right?  Well, even if you are the top man of your division, you still can't do and get whatever you want.  You need to work within certain constraints.  Hello people.....this is reality not reality TV.    So of course Erik had to work with what was available to him.  He set a target and designed something that met that target within the parameters he had at the time.  The parameters being, he had to share the motor with H-D.  It allows Buell to take advantage of shared costs, which in turn allows them to sell their bikes at comptetitive price points.  It all makes business sense.  

Some of you will NEVER understand the allure of the big cube, aircooled V-twin.  Your loss.

[PlayWithGravity]

I wish their were more of these bikes around I would love to hear one of the 1203 with after market exhaust.

Too bad we don't live closer!  

Weigh in:  I dig my Buell, partially because it's not 'mainstream'.  Every time you look up you see a jap racer (no offense intended), which makes the Buell different, and to me - enjoyable even more.  The motor does the trick for me, too.  thump-thump-thump  WHOOO-PAAAA

[steve.ski]

I like mechanical watches.  They are anywhere from 2 to 8 seconds off a day and require expensive service every 5 years or so.  They are also very expensive to purchase.  Just because I like them doesn't mean I'm going to try to convince anyone that they are technological marvels.  They're not.  I just like them.

The Harley engine is like my mechanical watches.

Thor, if your watches are 2-8 seconds off per day, it's time to have them regulated.

Rogue is right. Erik's engine project was redirected and gained weight. So goes the corporate path...

Furthermore, his bikes have always been about bucking trends, and the aircooled engine he uses in his bikes fits the bill. Of course the bike may be faster in the 1/4 with a different engine design, but it's not about that. The XB is a marvel of simplicity, and I think hanging a radiator on it would detract from the overall design.

Buell has come a LONG way in looks, design, and reliability. I really like their bikes, and since I have ridden with Rogue and Asphalt Carver, I can tell you they haul ass

[CBRXXBLACKBIRD]

Too bad we don't live closer!  

Weigh in:  I dig my Buell, partially because it's not 'mainstream'.  Every time you look up you see a jap racer (no offense intended), which makes the Buell different, and to me - enjoyable even more.  The motor does the trick for me, too.  thump-thump-thump  WHOOO-PAAAA

Check out this link how far is this for you?

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,2737.0.html

[PlayWithGravity]

The moonshine?  I've never been, but I've put in on my calendar for this year.  It's about 450 miles of slab from my home in Ohio, and 750 miles from where I'll likely be living by then (Raleigh, NC).  We'll see, though... you never know....  

[GS1100GK]

I agree that from an engineering perspective, Eric Buell has done a masterful job with the 1203 Engine.  Even though it is not the latest design it fits the bill.  That engine is narrow and short which allows for the short wheelbase that Eric wanted to make the bikes nimble.  Eric solved the vib issue with the rubber mounting system that HD couldn't or wouldn't do in over 40+ years up until the 2004 Sportster hit the street.  Erick was also the first to fuel inject the 1203 to help it's performance even more.  Other than the pushrod design Eric has made the 1203 motor a very modern engine.  

I also agree that the HD engines have gotten a bad rap for being old school pushrod engines.  Alot of that bad rap has to do with the poor quality that HD had in the past and the meager HP that their engines produced.  Consider this, the BMW Boxer motor is also a pushrod design that is over 80 years old, yet I do not hear anyone complaining about the design of that motor.  Kawasaki uses pushrods in their Vulcan 2000 motor, Yamaha has pushrods in their  biggest Star Line bikes and again no one complains about that.

Eric Buell should be commended for reinventing the 1203 Motor!  

[Flat-Out]

The Harley engine is like my mechanical watches.

Good comparison  

[PlayWithGravity]

It's a good thing my watch doesn't clatter and shake as much as my bike

[hobbes]

designed the 1203 cc motor for the XB.  H-D did NOT have a hand in it.  However, H-D liked the design so much, they asked to be secondary users of it.  Thus, H-D uses the block and heads and some other parts on the Sportster 1200.  The rest are all different.  Erik really likes this motor.  He believes it still has a lot of potential.  It currently meets present and emissions standards WITHOU a catalyst.  Therefore, it can easily meet future emissions standards with no problem.  It is lightweight, simple, and has plenty of power for its given applications.  Erik does not believe in the need for very high horsepower motors with high RPM thresholds.  He believes it is rarely used in the street so the benefit of added power is overcome by its heavier weight, complexity, and cost.

That's a bunch of crap. Not the info, but the way you put it. Erik Buell didn't design the 1203 engine, he MODIFIED an existing design. Most of the internal parts are different, but the original design came from Hardley.

I have faith in Buell's design ideas, but he has yet to really build a successfull engine from the ground up. Where's his square 4 now?

[bizarro]

Some of you will NEVER understand the allure of the big cube, aircooled V-twin.  

Absolutely correct.

Your loss, IMHO.

Fixed that for you. I've ridden a number of twins. Parallel, opposed, V, L. They're just not my cup o' tea. In line triples are, however. But I'm glad you dig your bike, it would suck if you spent a pile of money on something and decided it wasn't for you (ala my experience with BMWs).  

[PlayWithGravity]

They're just not my cup o' tea. In line triples are, however. But I'm glad you dig your bike, it would suck if you spent a pile of money on something and decided it wasn't for you (ala my experience with BMWs).

What a pleasant way to disagree.  Thanks for not bashing.  Appreciated.  

[bizarro]

I make an attempt towards civility when I leave the dungeon.

[Mookie]

Basically, I think that everyone who bashes Buells should really understand that if Erik had wanted a different motor, he would have gotten one.  Instead, he chose a design that did what he wanted and the hell with the detractors!  

I call BS on that.  Erik DID want a different motor and it wasn't given to him.  He modified an existing, somewhat crappy motor to get around it's inherent disadvantages.  

I happen to really like the XB series of bikes, including the motors to some degree.  I love big chunky VTwins, even aircooled ones.  I like the idea of torquing around at 4 RPM and getting 50 MPG  But the engine is without a doubt it's biggest limiting factor (and the transmission).  

[CBRXXBLACKBIRD]

Buells take some getting used to but they are fun to ride.