Why isn't HD good news reported?

[st ryder]

Where are all the doom sayers, and "know betterers" when a story about HD having the top market share of "young adults" comes out? Why aren't they posting that story here along with their post of HD's pendng doom when their stock drops 1/10 of 1 percent? Or how HD is doomed because they don't attract younger buyers?

"Harley Davidson Second Quarter Results Reveal Company is U.S. Market Share Leader of On-Road Motorcycles Among Young Adults....

UPDATE: Just got off the phone with Harley Davidson and the relevant statistics are from R.L. Polk and were covered on the earnings call yesterday.

· . . . in the U.S., no one is reaching new customers better than Harley-Davidson.

· Based on recently provided Polk data, we have been the heavyweight motorcycle category market leader in new motorcycle sales to young adult men and women ages 18 to 34 since at least 2006.

· We have also been the heavyweight market leader since at least 2006 in new motorcycle sales to women riders, Hispanic riders and African American riders ages 35 and older. Of course, we are also the market leader among Caucasian men ages 35 and older.

· And when it comes to new motorcycle sales to young adults in ALL sizes of on-road motorcycles, Harley-Davidson has been the U.S. market share leader since 2008.

While talking to Bob Klein, I also found that a lot of this is directly attributable to sales of the Iron 883 and the Forty Eight."

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2010/07/21/harley-davidson-second-quarter-results-reveal-fascinating-statistic/#more-12093

[chornbe]

Pure and utter lies. Ask anyone who rides a Japanese cruiser that's outnumbers 100 to 1. Silly man.

[atadaskew]

Harley has nothing that appeals to anyone in the 18-34 age range.

Apart from those bikes that make it the market leader.

The fools! Don't they know they should be building a 600cc supersport? Like the ones gathering dust on the showroom floors?

[greywolf]

 In the Atlanta area, there are a lot of conservative folks who prefer HD's , they can't keep the 48's in stock .. the 1200 sporty's are fun to ride , if archaic and overpriced .   My X had a 1200 C  it was entertaining

Oddly FJR's sit , one dealer had one on the floor for over a year, another , same story untill he dropped the price to 11.9K and I picked it up .     Go figure.

People love to bash HD ..  but they have a loyal following , and despite the economy that isn't going to change much.

[Jes_VFR]

Lets not forget the "Buy American" movement.
Many of us were hammered by parents that insisted on "buy American"
Even my parents fell in that category.

But when I bought my first bikes, there no 500-600-700cc HD's and there still aren't.
I didn't want the 883, I wanted a useful standard or a sportbike.
My Dad hit the roof when I bought my first bike (a beat up Suzi), until I calmly asked him to show me the Harley that I should have gotten instead.

And since it was right at the start of the 750cc tariff years, I stayed with smaller bikes for many years.
HD had nothing for me then.

And Harley can toot their horns all they want, They still don't make a bike that I'd buy.
Its not a matter of quality, its a matter of making a bike that is what I want.
And until the idiots in HD marketing and product development figure that out, I there won't be an HD on my insurance policy.

[veefer800canuck]

And Harley can toot their horns all they want, They still don't make a bike that I'd buy.
Its not a matter of quality, its a matter of making a bike that is what I want.
And until the idiots in HD marketing and product development figure that out, I there won't be an HD on my insurance policy.

^^^^^^^^^^^ that.

BUT, they were getting close with (that other brand whose name shall not be mentioned ever again, Shhhh).

[atadaskew]

 

And Harley can toot their horns all they want, They still don't make a bike that I'd buy.

They are ok with that.  The bikes that you want to buy are collecting dust on the salesroom floors, and seeing that your most recent bike is a 2002 model year, apparently the Japanese aren't making bikes you want to buy new either.

And let's be honest here, all mfgs care about are people who buy new bikes.

[Playinthestreet]

Do you mean when they figure out how to duplicate the Rune, new VFR, the Ruckus and all the other neat shit Honda has??  

[JGreb]

Good for Harley, but bad for those that like horsepower and cutting edge technology. It concerns me that people aren't interested in the Japanese baggers. I want the big four to keep bringing them to the US. If they continue to collect dust on the showroom floor they may reserve them for the European market like they've done in the past.

[atadaskew]

Good for Harley, but bad for those that like horsepower and cutting edge technology.

Why? If you want a rocket ship you can buy a ZX14, S1000RR etc.  
Cutting edge technology?  They have the best FI I have experienced in any bike and have been available with ABS brakes for some time now.  What else do you need for cruising style bikes?

If Harley doesn't make the bike you want, there are plenty of others you can buy.  By sticking to their core, they dominate that marketplace.  They are doing what they know best.  Want a cruiser? Get a Harley.  Want a wanna-be Harley? - those are discounted like crazy everywhere which is an indication as to their desirability. Want a sport bike? Get a .....

[falconati]

Interesting that they chose the word 'heavyweight.'

[Geoff]

And Harley can toot their horns all they want, They still don't make a bike that I'd buy.  

Don't take it so hard!  

[JGreb]

Why? If you want a rocket ship you can buy a ZX14, S1000RR etc.  
Cutting edge technology?  They have the best FI I have experienced in any bike and have been available with ABS brakes for some time now.  What else do you need for cruising style bikes?

If Harley doesn't make the bike you want, there are plenty of others you can buy.  By sticking to their core, they dominate that marketplace.  They are doing what they know best.  Want a cruiser? Get a Harley.  Want a wanna-be Harley? - those are discounted like crazy everywhere which is an indication as to their desirability. Want a sport bike? Get a .....

You cherry picked my post and didn't understand my reasoning. If Harley (Cruisers) dominate the market place then the kind of bikes I like, i.e. FJR, C-14, K1300S, GT, RT, etc.  will not have sufficient market influence for the manufacturers to justify the import of that type motorcycle.

I've owned 4 Harley's and consider them great motorcycles for their intended purpose. Cutting edge is FI and ABS? No sir, that is just standard equipment for this day and age. Especially for a motorycle that is nearing or exceeding a 20K price tag. You forgot to mention that Harley has a great security system. I'm not bashing them at all. I just wish more people weren't overwhelmed with the image and more concerned with the practicality of their ride. I would like to see H-D expand their R&D to build a motorcycle to compete with the big sport tourers. I still think one day an Ultra might be in my future but for now I like the performance of my FJR which H-D isn't concerned with at this time.

[Playinthestreet]

Unlike most of the "bashers", you've owned H-D.  They are what they are.  My E-glide does fine for the type of riding I currently do.  I've had "sportier" bikes and they were fine too.  

[chornbe]

Cutting edge is FI and ABS? No sir, that is just standard equipment for this day and age. Especially for a motorycle that is nearing or exceeding a 20K price tag. You forgot to mention that Harley has a great security system. I'm not bashing them at all. I just wish more people weren't overwhelmed with the image and more concerned with the practicality of their ride. I would like to see H-D expand their R&D to build a motorcycle to compete with the big sport tourers. I still think one day an Ultra might be in my future but for now I like the performance of my FJR which H-D isn't concerned with at this time.

There are a lot of points there to discuss.

FI is standard equipment because the EPA has regulated carbs out of existence, for the most part. It's WAY easier to reflash an ECU to tweak an FI system than to service carbs. It's a MFG & Consumer win all around. In addition, Harleys use a fly-by-wire system with full actuator motor system, and adding, say, cruise control is as simple as wiring in the switch kit and flashing the ECU. And Atad's point about the "cutting edge" of the FI system Harley uses isn't that it's there, but that it just WORKS, right from the factory. No power commander needed to smooth out dead spots or "snatchy" behavior. It's the smoothest system I've ever ridden. I can not think of too many other bikes whose systems are as smooth, as linear and as well polished.

ABS is still VERY much a niche market, "up sell" kind of system. Most Harleys are priced in the $13k - $18k range... as the competition is. The Stars, Victories, Vulcans and C90s / C109s are all in that same range, feature for feature, price for price. None of them have ABS, except the big Victory. Some of Star's bikes are, IMO, incrementally better in several points than Harley's bikes, however that's not across the board, it's not in every model and feature, and the prices DEFINITELY reflect that.

As for everything else, when the buyers that continually make Harley the #1 bike manufacturer (in their market segment) start demanding something different, Harley will build it. The Sportster/XR and V-Rod (especially the Street Rod) should be a clear and overwhelming testimony to what happens when Harley builds something that their core buyers do not approve of.

[JGreb]

There are a lot of points there to discuss.

FI is standard equipment because the EPA has regulated carbs out of existence, for the most part. It's WAY easier to reflash an ECU to tweak an FI system than to service carbs. It's a MFG & Consumer win all around. In addition, Harleys use a fly-by-wire system with full actuator motor system, and adding, say, cruise control is as simple as wiring in the switch kit and flashing the ECU. And Atad's point about the "cutting edge" of the FI system Harley uses isn't that it's there, but that it just WORKS, right from the factory. No power commander needed to smooth out dead spots or "snatchy" behavior. It's the smoothest system I've ever ridden. I can not think of too many other bikes whose systems are as smooth, as linear and as well polished.

ABS is still VERY much a niche market, "up sell" kind of system. Most Harleys are priced in the $13k - $18k range... as the competition is. The Stars, Victories, Vulcans and C90s / C109s are all in that same range, feature for feature, price for price. None of them have ABS, except the big Victory. Some of Star's bikes are, IMO, incrementally better in several points than Harley's bikes, however that's not across the board, it's not in every model and feature, and the prices DEFINITELY reflect that.

As for everything else, when the buyers that continually make Harley the #1 bike manufacturer (in their market segment) start demanding something different, Harley will build it. The Sportster/XR and V-Rod (especially the Street Rod) should be a clear and overwhelming testimony to what happens when Harley builds something that their core buyers do not approve of.

Very true Chris

My father has the Road Glide with the TCA and I found it to run less responsive than my Street Glide with the standard cable acutated throttle body, but it is very innovative and the plug and play cruise is a very nice touch.

To address the power commander issue I've never had one single complaint about the fueling on my FJR, I believe all the altitude surging and snatchy throttle response was addressed by Yamaha for the '08 model year. My '06 Glide with the Delphi FI was spot on. It always started instantly and maintained excellent throttle response throughout the rev range.

[chornbe]

 

My '06 FJR was snatchy at lower throttle positions. I took off the 9-billion redundant return springs, lost all the slack at the cable and just got really good at subtle actuation. it was still there, but minimized. I never felt the need to drop $400 to "fix" it. After I sold the bike, Yamaha then announced the reflash for the Gen-II bikes.

[Gar]

You cherry picked my post and didn't understand my reasoning.  I just wish more people weren't overwhelmed with the image and more concerned with the practicality of their ride. I would like to see H-D expand their R&D to build a motorcycle to compete with the big sport tourers. I still think one day an Ultra might be in my future but for now I like the performance of my FJR which H-D isn't concerned with at this time.

A little more cherry picking here. My 2010 Road Glide Custom is the most practical bike I've had. IF the BMW F-650 had been reliable at all, it would have competed for most practical.

[chornbe]

Practical, being daily use, do it all, start-n-go simplicity and "just do it" functionality...?

I agree. My 'Glide was right there, too.

I miss that bike.

[Gar]

Practical, being daily use, do it all, start-n-go simplicity and "just do it" functionality...?

I agree. My 'Glide was right there, too.

I miss that bike.

Yes. Everything except track use. For that there's the 06 KTM Supermoto.  

[expatbrit]

Interesting that they chose the word 'heavyweight.'

Yeah. I zoomed in on that too. Sounds like 'lies, damn lies, and statistics' (AKA -- marketing)...

If I label a category appropriately, of course I can be a leader in it.

[chornbe]

One can whine about statistics all day long.

HD has always equated "heavyweight" with bikes greater than 800cc, sticking to cruisers and tourers.

When you put that limit on it, cruisers and tourers are almost always >800CCs and anyone who travels even a little bit here in the US typically will see more HDs on the road, over time, than any other single brand of bike.

In that respect, yes, they are the #1 sellers.

All the other MFGs' cruisers may outnumber HDs (doubtful), but from a single MFGer, it's a no-brainer.

Again... sticking with the types of bikes.

Dirt bikes are still, as I understand it, the #1 selling sub-genre of motorcycles in the US.

[mnb]

Despite all the basher's out of date jokes about being towed or leaking oil, my Harley remains the most reliable bike I've ever owned.  Even more so than my K1100 Flying Brick BMW (which I also love).

Rock solid reliable.  Comfortable.  My overall preferred commuter.  Also great for casual rides and touring.

[kevin_stevens]

Ok, I'll give some HD good news.  In fact, this is so groundbreaking for The Motor Company that when I first read it I didn't believe it.

On the 2011 Sportster SuperLow, HD is introducing, for the *first* time in their lineup....

Radial tires.


 


KeS

[chornbe]

Ok, I'll give some HD good news.  In fact, this is so groundbreaking for The Motor Company that when I first read it I didn't believe it.

On the 2011 Sportster SuperLow, HD is introducing, for the *first* time in their lineup....

Radial tires.


 


KeS

Z-rated kick ass sneakers.

But the 'Rod had 'em first.

[stevent]

My '08 FLHT has radials and is the most useful and smooth running bike I've owned. The EFI is seamless, unlike my surging R1150RT, the ABS is a Godsend in crappy Washington State winters, it's more comfortable than my beloved Trophy 1200 which had sticky floats on occasion, waaaay more reliable than my POS VFR which regularly cooked it's reg/rec and assorted connectors... In fact about the only other bike I've had that was as dead nuts reliable was my -02 Bandit 1200 which I sold to by the Harley in the first place.