2010 MTS1200 Kaizen

[Blondebaerde]

I've logged about 2,600 miles on my 2010 MTS 1200 S Touring.  My riding is primarily commuting (two hundred miles/week, at-current) and urban + two-lane, in WA State USA.  I've also completed two or three 300 mile day trips.  In September, I have an IBA ride planned for multi-thousand miles in four riding "days."

My Multi ownership experience has been quite positive, thus far!  The upsides appear to hugely outweigh the downsides.  I find it the most versatile motorcycle I've owned to date, for touring, sport, and urban riding (the fourth mode, offroad/enduro, isn't my thing.)  Favorite features: tractable and powerful engine, magnificent Ohlins suspension, and real-world ergonomics.  For me, these three features make the bike.  The rest is gravy.

However, there are areas for improvement, the subject of this post.  In ascending order of severity:  1) "Hmmm" = what were they thinking?  2) "Opportunity" = smooth this rough edge, please 3) "Issue" = should be addressed.  Some items apply only to the S Touring  model.  A fourth category, "Whatever," are items noted by others that I personally don't find a hassle.

As always, your mileage may vary: I have a sample size of one, a single S Touring.  Other owners are free to agree, disagree, etc. at their convenience.  In fact, comments appreciated.

Hmmm:

- Speedometer is about 5% optimistic, per my GPS, from rest to at least an indicated 80mph.  C'mon: my Aprilia Mille (ten years ago) was nearly spot-on, as-measured in a controlled test.
- Heated grip wires look like they want to break.  Suggest re-routing and re-designing.  I partially mitigated this issue in five minutes with cable ties.
 
Opportunity:
 
- Fueling does not feel spot-on below 4K RPM.  "Hunts" a bit, with minor surging, on steady throttle.  Injection mapping, electrical, other gremlins?  Noted in all four riding modes.  May or may not be improving over time, or I'm used to it.
- Mystery neutrals: one between fifth and sixth, another between second and third.  On some bikes, these mysteriously go away over time, during extended break-in.  Others are more-permanent.  Will wait and see.
- Hard front braking occasionally stalls the engine(!)
- Too difficult to change the oil.  Removing stands, blocked-bolts, etc. is not cool.  My Honda Blackbird, fully faired, is a 20 min change (one panel, everything accessible).  Would like this to be re-thought by Ducati in subsequent models.

Issue:

- There are at least two ways to improperly close the panniers (hard bags), and one "correct" way.  One incorrect way may fool the user into thinking a bag is closed and latched, the other is obvious since it won't close and promptly pops open.  I found out about false-latching the hard way, recently, sacrificing one of two stowed-away shoes to the Road Gods as my goods went flying.  Had I lost anything I actually cared about, could have been a lot worse.  This is unacceptable, however.
- Pannier seal.  I stow gear in sturdy, REI waterproof bags, within the panniers.  In heavy rain, there is obvious moisture inside so I know they're leaking, even when "sealed."

Whatever:

- Restricted foot room on the pegs: perhaps I just adjusted my feet farther-forward.  Not cramped by either the centerstand (left) or pipe (right), size U.S 10.5 boots.
- Centerstand is "flimsy": ah, no: easy on, easy-off for me.  It could stand to be heavier-duty metal, but why would we want it to be?
 
Ducati, consider the above in the spirit of TQM/Kaizen continuous quality improvements.  

Thanks for reading.

[Mr Sunshine]

What is a Kaizen?  

[Mr Sunshine]

- Speedometer is about 5% optimistic, per my GPS, from rest to at least an indicated 80mph.  C'mon: my Aprilia Mille (ten years ago) was nearly spot-on, as-measured in a controlled test.

It is 8%...it says it right there in the manual.  

[R Doug]

Great review... well thought out and written.

[falconati]

Kaizen = lean process improvement.

To the point about speedo, many manufacturers do this...helps you get less (read: lower) speeding tickets.

[UFO]

Fueling: 100% agreed, biggest single issue with this bike and I reemed DNA about it on the survey they sent out to owners of the bike.
Speedo:  8% optimistic as it says right in the manual.  They can get it 100% spot on, but chose not to for whatever reason.
Oil change:  Not sure how removing a belly pan takes longer than a full XX fairing.  Even the centerstand is only 2 bolts.
Centerstand:  removed and sitting on a shelf.  It's a POS in its stock form.  May re-engineer it later, but not too worried about it.
False neutrals:  None.  In fact this is one of the best shifting bikes I've ever owned.
Pannier closing:  they close almost exactly like the 6th gen VFR bags, so I haven't had a problem with them.

[Blondebaerde]

Thanks, didn't notice via the manual that the speedo is 8% optimistic "deliberately."  Yes, I can guess it is to save us from ourselves.  I set my bedroom clock ahead about 5-10 minutes for the same halfwit reason: would rather think I'm a little later (faster) than earlier (slower), to keep things in-order.  It is what it is.  I have a GPS mounted to the Multi, which allows me no such illusions about my true speed.  I keep half an eye on that, not the bike speedo.

Yes, Kaizen is sort of a quality-circle, continuous improvement process.  Works great at Toyota, their woes in 2010 notwithstanding (the enemy of TQM is aggressive cost-cutting).

I question why one would need to remove the centerstand, to remove the belly pan, but that's neither here nor there.  XX panel is four bolts and three snaps, short work with my PorterCable or t-handles.  Will see if there is a faster "system" to accessing oil faster on the Duck, with practice.

Other than scraping the centerstand in aggressive cornering, just yesterday, I dunno: it doesn't look like the smartest design, but works for me.  If it's "junk," will be curious how they fix it since it seems to be a big complaint of most owners.

Read something about the the surging issue today, that the U.S. bikes have different maps due to our fuel?  Interesting, if-true.  Would guess Ducati will provide a service update, eventually.  An annoyance.

I am bothered that there is both one dunderhead and one non-obvious way to incorrectly close the bags. The latter bit me, when I was in a hurry.  Frankly, something that important should be made in such a way that closing it "wrong" (not-latching, i.e.) is simply not possible.  This can be done.  They didn't. I get tired, or in a hurry, like everyone else.  Next thing I know all my shti is flying down Hwy 2 and my buddy behind me is laughing, flashing lights, and pointing.  Uh, "wtf, I "closed and locked" the bag??"

I figure most or all of the items I mentioned are growing-pains.  They'll fix some of it, eventually.  Vivre la "Kaizen!"

[falcofred]

I now have just over 1000 miles on my 1200 S Touring.

1. my biggest complaint is the centerstand. It really gets in the way of my heel when cornering left with the ball of my foot on the peg. I have ground the stand on both left and right hand corners because I was pushing down on the stand with my heel.

2. The bags have gaps, I'm sure that Ducati will correct this under warranty.

3. There is some surging and hunting between 4000 and 5000 rpm, it's not an issue for me.

4. At 6'3" the windshield makes noisy turbulence for me. I'll need either a taller shield, laminar lip, just cut the stock shield down.

Overall, the bike rocks, so much torque, so much power, so comfortable, handles so well, the riding modes work as advertised. I'm really happy with the bike.

[UFO]

2. The bags have gaps, I'm sure that Ducati will correct this under warranty.

I wouldn't hold your breath.  I'd be shocked if they address a couple leading edge gaps under warranty.

Oh, I also reemed DNA in their survey over the MTS accessory pipeline...or lack thereof.  I have MANY things on order.  Took me two months to my first CF piece.  Took me 1 FREAKING DAY (from order to arriving at my door) to get a speedymoto.com front sprocket cover.  So I canceled the CF cover I'd ordered.

All my other Ducati bits and pieces are still in limbo.

[falcofred]

I wouldn't hold your breath. I'd be shocked if they address a couple leading edge gaps under warranty.

I'm not going to hold my breath, but I am confident they will fix the bag issue. I bought an 04 Multi and it had several issues, side stand and valves being the biggest and Ducati warrantied both. I personally never experienced the valve problem myself, but they replaced my entire side stand, bracket and switch under warranty.
The first year also had mirrors that were useless and a seat that was unbearable. The very next year, the 05 bikes came with the new designed side stand, new mirrors, and the optional "comfort" seat was made standard.
I was impressed with how many corrections they made in one model year. Try that at BMW, they deny problems for years, then implement corrections with the next models.
This is Ducati's flagship bike. They have a lot riding on the success of this machine.

[falconati]

I actually think their flagship is the 1198 or Desmosedici.  This bike is just super profitable, I'd imagine.

[Castaway]

I actually think their flagship is the 1198 or Desmosedici.  This bike is just super profitable, I'd imagine.

This is bike appears to be doing so well in sales that I would think Ducati sees it as market expansion, pulling in lots of first-time Ducati owners. If they like their first experience they'll stick around. If not, it could be a long-time loss.

[falcofred]

I actually think their flagship is the 1198 or Desmosedici.  This bike is just super profitable, I'd imagine.

The Desmosedici is no longer in production so it can't be their flagship model. The 1198R is probably their "Flagship" model, but even it doesn't have all the technology of the MTS.
Ducati has invested many Euros in the development of this bike, and as Castaway stated Ducati is trying to steel market share, bringing in new customers to the Ducati experience. Just the 15,000 mile valve service interval is enough to bring in so many people that just couldn't live with the maintenance of previous Ducati's even though they lusted for one.
I truly have faith that Ducati will fix the bag problem. Right now they are scrambling to keep up with demand, but once they can catch up, they will make it right. In the mean time, for trips I'll just use plastic bags inside the hard cases.

[CreepingMalaise]

I've also got about 1000 miles on my S Touring (finally had some time to ride over the weekend):

1. Fueling issue around 4k is noticeable, but not that bad for me.  I live at 4800 ft elevation, and most of my longer rides are higher - perhaps this issue isn't as bad at higher elevation?

2. Center stand had to go after the ride home.  Seriously, WTF were they thinking?  Guess I'm going to have to try out some of those little roller things for chain maintenance on the road (anybody have input on those?).

3. Luggage appears to not close well in the front, but I got rained on hard on the first ride home, and there was no water inside when I arrived?  Have yet to see how they do when loaded.

4. I have had ~6 false neutrals, on 5->4 and 4->3 downshifts.  In general, the transmission feels great, but has a much has a much longer travel than I'm used to - I'm going to blame this one on technique.  Last ride (~230 miles) I didn't have any.  I would be interested in a mod to shorten the shifter travel.

5. Dealer warned me some have had battery discharge problems - I haven't seen any signs of this, but did have a question that may be related:  Sometimes when parked/off the LCD gauge red LEDs occasionally blink, other times not.  Sometimes they'll blink for a many hours, then stop, sometimes they blink for >1day.  Once they stop I've never seen it go back on again until the bike is turned on again.  I can't find anything in the manual that explains this.  The FOB is well out of the advertised range.  Is there some electronic component that is sometimes staying powered on when the bike is shut off?

6.  Bike is  - very pleased with the purchase overall.

[UFO]

The blinking red light is an immobilizer indicator that isn't used on the US model but still blinks.  I believe it blinks for 24 he's and is normal.

[Mr Sunshine]

Just don't keep your key near the bike and you'll avoid the battery discharge issue.

[dallas]

Really,  I keep my key in my bike and I have never had an issue.

   My biggest disappointment is the plastic display screen    which had scratches in it from day one and is of cheap quality
not of the standard of the Garmin screen above it


 Number 2 would be the mapping this is a US epa thing and is not the case in some countries so it can be corrected.

As for the staling this will stop after break in    Every MTS has the false neutrals if you are not deliberate with your shifting,  but all in all the transmission is excellent

You get use to the the panniers in time  but they are not the best or most solid and the black rubber cover that the bottom fits over will come out , one day you go to put your bags on and one will be missing.   So be aware of this

As for the center stand mine broke right off in a matter of weeks.  
The bolt holding it together is not strong enough to support weight and if it breaks will scratch your swing arm, be aware of this.  The starter switch is weak on many bikes and needs to be replaced from the time of delivery.

OK thats about it for negatives I have observed in 3500 miles.

The positive   It is with out doubt in my opinion the best motorcycle in the world today.  
I have never had a motorcycle I like more    It does everything well

[CreepingMalaise]

Now for my "Kaizen" contribution -


I'm playing with customizing the suspension settings this week - turns out I'm a little more ... umm ... robust that the Italian horse jockeys the default single rider settings are optimized for  

While doing this, it occurs to me that what the bike really should have had is a feature where you just plug in the weight of the rider (+passenger) and luggage, and it makes all the appropriate adjustments to the 4 modes?

[atadaskew]

Now for my "Kaizen" contribution -


I'm playing with customizing the suspension settings this week - turns out I'm a little more ... umm ... robust that the Italian horse jockeys the default single rider settings are optimized for  

While doing this, it occurs to me that what the bike really should have had is a feature where you just plug in the weight of the rider (+passenger) and luggage, and it makes all the appropriate adjustments to the 4 modes?

I think the problem with that is no suspension can cover the weight ranges that people would try to enter i.e. it wouldn't be able to cater for 150lbs up to , say, 450lbs...

[Mr Sunshine]

I think the problem with that is no suspension can cover the weight ranges that people would try to enter i.e. it wouldn't be able to cater for 150lbs up to , say, 450lbs...

You plug in what springs are in there, add some linear pedometers and then bam...it auto adjusts.

[CreepingMalaise]

I think the problem with that is no suspension can cover the weight ranges that people would try to enter i.e. it wouldn't be able to cater for 150lbs up to , say, 450lbs...

Agreed - but it certainly could handle a smaller range - maybe 200 - 300 or something?  The 'solo' mode feels to soft for me, while 'solo with luggage' is a touch harsh.  Those settings must be based on specific weights, and I want something in between.  I'm no expert, but it seems like it still has enough travel that I won't need heavier springs.

Sunshine nailed it - plug in the spring rates and the weight and let the computer work out the rest.

Don't the BMW ESA bikes set the preload when you first start moving based on sag?  In this respect, the ESA system would appear to be superior to the DES system.

[Mr Sunshine]

Agreed - but it certainly could handle a smaller range - maybe 200 - 300 or something?  The 'solo' mode feels to soft for me, while 'solo with luggage' is a touch harsh.  Those settings must be based on specific weights, and I want something in between.  I'm no expert, but it seems like it still has enough travel that I won't need heavier springs.

Sunshine nailed it - plug in the spring rates and the weight and let the computer work out the rest.

Don't the BMW ESA bikes set the preload when you first start moving based on sag?  In this respect, the ESA system would appear to be superior to the DES system.

If it feels too harsh...soften up the compression damping.  Its not the springs that generally do that unless they are way off.

I really need to get to my suspension guy and work with him to set this thing up.  I'm finding that its adjustments aren't right for me.  But that's easy to fix..just have to do it.